New easiest and cheapest way to a reliable 1,000+ RWHP in a 2003-2006 SRT!!!

[pumpgas]

1 – PaxtonNOVI 2000 or 2500 system (I would go with the 2500 if startingfrom stock) –- $6,500.00
1 - Complete ForgedRotating Package, 03-06 Viper - $3,000.00

• Diamond Racing Forged Pistons and Pins (DP-PA810RR)
• Callies Compstar Forged H Beam Connecting Rods (CAL-HBRG3)
• Clevite Rod Bearings / H Series Set (CLE-CB1808HN-RR)
• Clevite Main Bearings / H Series Set (CLE-MS2253H)
• Total Seal AP Ring Set - 1.5mm x 1.5mm x 3.0mm (TSR-APRS113)

1 – MOPAR Gen IIIPerformance Upgrade Kit - P5156137 - $7,000.00 - $8,000.00?
· Aluminum cylinder heads
· Customupper intake manifold
· Custom throttlebody,
· Fuelrails
· Injectors
1 – Catalytic converterdelete and pipe welded in - $300.00
1 – SCT Tuner -$350.00
1 – High volume fuelpump – $500.00
1 – Installation andtuning - $3,000.00 – $4,000.00
1 – Dual disc clutchassembly - $1,500.00

TOTAL = $21,000.00 - $23,000.00

I thinkthis just made the 03-06 Vipers much more valuable long term.
Ialready have the Paxton system, exhaust, SCT tuner and clutch on my car, so it’sonly another $10,000.00 - $12,000.00 in parts (assuming the Mopar PU is under$8K) and a couple thousand in labor to take the car from 650 RWHP up to 1,000RWHP or so. Not sure if the Novi 2000can hit 1,000 RWHP with 15 lbs of boost and the above, but it should be damnclose.
I figurewith this new Mopar performance upgrade kit and a decent exhaust system a 03-06should dyno at 550 - 575 RWHP N/A. Theyadvertise a 150hp increase over stock. Add in 15lbs of boost and you are there.
It’sprobably not worth it to go this route long term (and not spend the extra money),but I guess as step 1, you could always save about $5-6K or so and if youalready have the Paxton system can probably easily take the car up to 750 RWHPwith the stock motor, on pump gas and only 7lbs of boost by just adding theMopar performance upgrade. I would guessparts and labor would be about $10K for that. It would be crazy though not to forge the motor when the heads were off forthe extra $3K in parts and additional labor.
Ifigure if you already have the Paxton system, I would guess we are looking atroughly $15K or so to go up to 1,000 RWHP.

 

[Matt162]

All sounds nice but i feel for the reliable 1000+ HP you shouldnt start the build handicapped with the paxton, twins with a built block on a conservative tune will make up a reliable 1000hp. Also I believe the main caps need to be upgraded to billet caps and with that the block will need to be line honed, and I'm sure theres a couple more thousand here or there for every projects mumbo-jumbo.

 

[pumpgas]

Agreed, but you can't do it for $20K. Would be closer to $30-35K.

 

[Viper Specialty]

1. No way you are going to put together a short-block for 3K. Even a Hemi costs double that. Multiply that by 3 or 4, and you will be close to the realm of reasonable.

2. No way that Mopar kit is going to be 7-8000. It has almost 14K in parts content in it.

3. That package already exists in the aftermarket. I have yet to see someone mix a Paxton with it.

4. Paxtons are absolutely not the best idea to use in the 1000+ ballpark. 2000's were never designed to make reliable power in that range, and 2500's will fall on their face in all but the highest of the RPM range.

5. I knew this was going to happen. There is NOTHING SPECIAL about that Mopar kit. The aftermarket already has it. We already have it. Hell, I have those conversion kits on the shelf! But the moment Mopar brings it out... its groundbreaking? Its nothing new... Its just Mopar being late to the table as usual.

 

[Paul Hawker]

800 hp on a Gen III is pretty cheap, reliable and available.

1,000 hp...not so much.

 

[Black Moon]

What Dan says. You're way off on prices. Parts to forge are$6700 plus labor and machine work puts you over 10k just to build the block. I just priced this a few weeks ago.

 

[TowDawg]

$3,000 for the parts to forge the motor seems really low. I'll admit that I don't have much knowledge on who makes make good parts for this and who doesn't, but I have always been under the impression that to forge the bottom end to handle 1,000 rwhp reliably, the parts were a heck of lot more expensive than that. You might be able to find the "cheap" parts to technically forge the bottom end for that price, but are they quality parts?

I have to agree with the others in terms of not using a Paxton in that kind of power range as well. If you already have one, heck yeah, forge the engine and put it back on for now with some more boost. If you're starting from scratch and building the motor, TT is the only option I would even look at.

 

[mbccenter]

I do have a 1000rwhp Paxton Gen3. Takes a little more $$ but a fun car to drive PM sent

 

[ScrewDrvr]

3k for a forged bottom end here, no labor.
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=922&idcategory=302

edit- actually its a copy/paste from this

 

[Viper Specialty]

3k for a forged bottom end here, no labor.
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=922&idcategory=302

edit- actually its a copy/paste from this

A 1000 RW Paxton engine is making closer to 1300-1350 @ the flywheel. That fact alone makes the above completely inadequate. Those parts are good for 1K CRANK, I wouldnt push them much further IMHO.

Otherwise, what about the machine work? Balancing? Studding? Billet caps that SHOULD be on a build of that size, and the machine work for them? Main Bearings? Cam journal touch up or replacement? Camshaft install & Degreeing? Lifters? ASSEMBLY?


There is the right way...... and then there is everything else. Just because it "can be done" doesn't mean it should be.

 

[TowDawg]

The link does say up to 1000 rwhp. That said, Final has a point that 1000 rwhp on a Paxton vs TT is a different level of stress on the engine. Not to mention, I would never want to be at the "up to" level of anything. I would assume that set-up would be pretty food for a TT kit at about 900 rwhp and stay together just fine.

The problem is that I have learned how I really am. If I built the motor to handle 900, I would be happy as hell for a little while, then I would want 1000, then maybe 1100, then BOOM!

 

[Viper Specialty]

The link does say up to 1000 rwhp.

Whoops, my mistake on that one.

The problem is that I have learned how I really am. If I built the motor to handle 900, I would be happy as hell for a little while, then I would want 1000, then maybe 1100, then BOOM!

Always. Always. Always overbuild a Forced Induction Build. For one, it is so damn easy to up the power in most cases that you WILL end up doing it. Secondly, when you get detonation on a forced induction engine, it can do serious damage seriously fast. The more power you make, the harder the hammering. It is better to overbuild just so that in case you DO have a problem, you are less likely to destroy your engine if you catch it early. If riding in the ragged edge, you have very little safety margin.

A side topic is also that when looking at Gen-4 heads, you do have the ability to reliably rev a little higher. If you have a build that can take advantage of that, its not a bad move to do so. However, reciprocating [pulling] forces are what kills connecting rods and bolts, not compressive forces in most cases, and reciprocating forces grow exponentially with engine speed. Stronger connecting rods can better handle the extra load of heavier forged pistons being pulled harder down the bores. Its not just the power production that comes into play on this one.

 

[plumcrazy]

at that level caps are an absolute must but if i was starting from scratch and looking for 1000rwhp, id definitely go TT. no doubt

900-950 rwhp and less, the paxton is perfect IMO and of course they can be pushed over that 1K mark, its just not the norm

 

[Viper Specialty]

at that level caps are an absolute must but if i was starting from scratch and looking for 1000rwhp, id definitely go TT. no doubt

900-950 rwhp and less, the paxton is perfect IMO and of course they can be pushed over that 1K mark, its just not the norm

Exactly. Just because it can be done, does not make it a good idea. Paxtons pushed beyond their limits are more likely to cause crank snout shearing, head-unit damage, and diminishing returns from extra heat.

 

[Nine Ball]

Forged shortblock (complete) with custom cam, ARP hardware, machining and assembly labor is more like $9-11K. You can't just buy the parts and slap them into your used block. Add another $3K if you do the billet main caps and the machining required to install them. This is all while utilizing the OEM crank.

Paxton is a good choice for up to 700 rwhp on a stock engine, 900 rwhp on a built engine. Beyond that, turbos are a much better solution.

 

[plumcrazy]

Paxtons pushed beyond their limits are more likely to cause crank snout shearing, .

dont remind me about that. that was not fun or cheap to fix !

 

[steve911]

I know about it too. I have a perfect crank sitting in my basement with a short snout too.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

" quote
A side topic is also that when looking at Gen-4 heads, you do have the ability to reliably rev a little higher. If you have a build that can take advantage of that, its not a bad move to do so. However, reciprocating [pulling] forces are what kills connecting rods and bolts, not compressive forces in most cases, and reciprocating forces grow exponentially with engine speed. Stronger connecting rods can better handle the extra load of heavier forged pistons being pulled harder down the bores. Its not just the power production that comes into play on this one. quote"

Great post Dan, these facts are lost most of the time when people want more power

 

[gb66gth]

1000 rwhp, really?!
I know I'm about to receive a lot of angry replies but....
Any estimates on the cost when you wrap it around a tree or phone poll, or *** it up on a wall or armco?
Seriously guys, I'm not 100% sure, but I would bet it's not the road racing track guys or drag strip runners who run these kinds of numbers, but more the guys running around the streets. So, what's the point?
I'm just sayin'.....

 

[Viper Specialty]

1000 rwhp, really?!
I know I'm about to receive a lot of angry replies but....
Any estimates on the cost when you wrap it around a tree or phone poll, or *** it up on a wall or armco?
Seriously guys, I'm not 100% sure, but I would bet it's not the road racing track guys or drag strip runners who run these kinds of numbers, but more the guys running around the streets. So, what's the point?
I'm just sayin'.....

A lot can be said on the topic. To paraphrase, "if the car doesn't scare me, I will get bored with it"

A car with 5, 6, 7, 800 horsepower WILL get old sooner or later. When the car doesn't surprise you anymore and force you to pay attention, some people will get bored. It isn't until you get into the 1000+ range until you have a car that becomes impossible to completely tame. While this sounds like a death sentence, it isn't. Very few people who build these kinds of cars just mash the pedal and pray. However, they do certainly get off on the fact that the car DOES have the ability to kick them in the teeth if they don't respect it, and that's what they live for. Some of the new engine controllers can make these uber powerful cars quite tame at the limit, but the fun thing about it is, you can set up the car to purposely be a "boarderline handful". The controller setup will keep you from completely losing control, but it wont prevent you from the "butt pucker" moment just before. You can trim the responsiveness and attitude of the car at will.

 

[plumcrazy]

if 500rwhp is good, 800+rwhp is GOODER. pretty simple math.

like dan said, it can and does get easy to get used to that power on the street. some actually use it too.

 

[AbsolutHank]

....street. some actually use it too.

Post Reported

 

[mbccenter]

A lot can be said on the topic. To paraphrase, "if the car doesn't scare me, I will get bored with it"

A car with 5, 6, 7, 800 horsepower WILL get old sooner or later. When the car doesn't surprise you anymore and force you to pay attention, some people will get bored. It isn't until you get into the 1000+ range until you have a car that becomes impossible to completely tame. While this sounds like a death sentence, it isn't. Very few people who build these kinds of cars just mash the pedal and pray. However, they do certainly get off on the fact that the car DOES have the ability to kick them in the teeth if they don't respect it, and that's what they live for. Some of the new engine controllers can make these uber powerful cars quite tame at the limit, but the fun thing about it is, you can set up the car to purposely be a "boarderline handful". The controller setup will keep you from completely losing control, but it wont prevent you from the "butt pucker" moment just before. You can trim the responsiveness and attitude of the car at will.

This is very true. If you respect the car they can be alot of fun. I get on mine all the time and love it. I was thinking I could use some more

 

[Black Moon]

Dan,
You and I priced mine a couple of months ago and it was $6,700 for the parts. Add machine work and proper assembly and you're at 10K or more. You can spend a fair amount just on improving the heads and masaging the oiling system. Might want a good oil pan and swing arm, what $2,000-$2,500. Then dyno time and tuning.

Anyone want to pick up from there? Back to you Dan.

 

[c65491]

sadly there is nothing for GEN4, getting tired of the the headers + catback thng.

i know im off topic but i envy the gen3

 

[TowDawg]

sadly there is nothing for GEN4, getting tired of the the headers + catback thng.

i know im off topic but i envy the gen3

Yep. Lots of stuff you can do to the Gen III, but $$$ gets pretty damn big if you're looking to go over the 650-700 rwhp stage and have to tear into the motor. You can get to that level for about $10k. If you want any more, the tab starts climbing big time.

I personally would love to see what Steve's single Turbo is capable of. If can make 900 rwhp or so, then you might be able to get away with a "mild" forged build and have plenty of power. The place where you (at least I do) get into trouble is the "while you're in there syndrome". If I'm going to do a mild build, might as well add some main caps, if I'm spending that kind of money, throw in a custom cam, with a custom cam, might as well the heads off to GG. If I go though all that, I want to make sure it stays safe, so it's time for Gen IV oil pan and swinging pick-up. ****!!! My mild build just turned into a $14k+ build now (without the turbo system). Now that I've dumped that much into the engine build, why buy just the single turbo? Now I've doubled the damn cost of turbo kit too!

This is why I can't start anything until I know I have WAY above my original estimate for what it will cost me.

 

[c65491]

Yep. Lots of stuff you can do to the Gen III, but $$$ gets pretty damn big if you're looking to go over the 650-700 rwhp stage and have to tear into the motor. You can get to that level for about $10k. If you want any more, the tab starts climbing big time.

I personally would love to see what Steve's single Turbo is capable of. If can make 900 rwhp or so, then you might be able to get away with a "mild" forged build and have plenty of power. The place where you (at least I do) get into trouble is the "while you're in there syndrome". If I'm going to do a mild build, might as well add some main caps, if I'm spending that kind of money, throw in a custom cam, with a custom cam, might as well the heads off to GG. If I go though all that, I want to make sure it stays safe, so it's time for Gen IV oil pan and swinging pick-up. ****!!! My mild build just turned into a $14k+ build now (without the turbo system). Now that I've dumped that much into the engine build, why buy just the single turbo? Now I've doubled the damn cost of turbo kit too!

This is why I can't start anything until I know I have WAY above my original estimate for what it will cost me.

i know, ive been in this situation with my evo + gtr + corvette.

but this time its a no no, im not going wild. i guess its just headers + catback + nos for me..