1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Optimism, Pessimism and Trolls

Discussion in 'Generation V Discussions / SRT Coupe, GTS, GTC, AC' started by VENOM V, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. VENOM V

    VENOM V Enthusiast

    Posts:
    1,318
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Like on all forums, It appears that there are several types of posts on this forum, including some by a few trolls, some that lean towards pessimism, and some that are optimistic about the Gen V. We are all a mix of optimism and pessimism to some degree.

    The trolls are not worth responding to. They are negative people just trying to pi$$ you off and stir up some $hit. Typically unhappy in life and down on their luck, they want others to feel as crappy as they do.

    Then there are the optimists. In life, I'm typically optimistic, like a lot of my fellow VCA brothers. I see the good in things when it is present, I try not to whine or dwell on what I cannot change. I see a heck of a lot of good in the Gen V- I see a rolling work of art with world class performance, a gorgeous interior, I see the fruits of perseverance of an American car company through dark times. The only cars that have turned faster laps at Seca at the hands of MT are a couple of Corvettes (American), a McLaren, a Lambo, and the mighty Viper ACR (a Viper, and American!). It BEAT the Ferrari 458, R8, GT-R, and Lexus LFA!!! On its maiden voyage, no less. I have the advantage of having not owned a Viper when they were world dominators, mainly because I couldn't afford one until now, so I'm not affected by that like so many here are. And I didn't expect perfection in the Gen V, not from cash-strapped SRT coming out of bankruptcy. I am a design engineer and know what its like to make compromises to meet budget and schedule constraints in the real world. Ralph and team did much of the development in secret before telling Fiat - I guarantee he didn't have deep pockets. We are lucky to have a new Viper at all! We can and have debated whether SRT made the right choices, my opinion is they did an exceptional job. I know many don't agree.

    I now have a Gen V on order, and am absolutely ecstatic! I will track the car a few times a year, so performance is very important. But 95% of the time, I will be enjoying it on the roads with my friends and my lady. Weekend getaways, out to a nice restaurant, or just driven to work when the weather is nice. So performance is not the only criteria, or I would've saved money and bought a used ZO6 or a fugly GT-R.

    Pessimism has its strengths too. Certainly SRT has received solid constructive feedback on how to improve the Viper and what should go into the Gen V ACR. Nobody is obligated to like the Gen V, but what surprises me is the level of pessimism on this forum. I've been on a number of forums over the years and have never seen this level of venom, LOL. Not on the Camaro site when I owned one, nor on the Challenger site. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth for this new VCA member. If you don't like the car, say so but at a certain point it becomes repetitive and sometimes whiny. If you've made your point, leave it at that. If you're that disappointed with the Gen V, why are you still posting on the Gen V forum? You clearly won't be buying it, so move on and let those of us who are considering buying one have meaningful dialogue.

    I hope didn't offend anyone, sorry if that's the case.

    Happy New Year, my fellow VCA members.
     
  2. Policy Limits

    Policy Limits Viper Owner

    Posts:
    1,372
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    well said bro!!! i'm a true enthusiast myself and can appreciate all brands, makes and styles of all exotic vehicles. if that comes across snobby to some thats unfortunate. I can appreciate a $40k lotus espirit and then a seven figure bugatti. Enthusiasm for style & performance transcends value in my mind. Aesthetics are inherently in the eye of the beholder anyway so to each his own!!

    I think that your order is gonna be one of the hottest builds ever!! i cant wait to see it!! don't dim your light just because it shines so brightly in the eyes of others! Live the dream!! I'm here living it with you!!:2tu:
     
  3. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

    Posts:
    2,918
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Location:
    Tysons Corner, VA
    Pretty much how I feel and what I said in the CD thread.

    We are at an amazing point and time for automotive performance. The fact a (virtually) brand new vehicle built basically as an under funded side project is hitting the numbers it is, is pretty amazing. (And hampering by Fiat)

    It isn't like 1992 where the field could be taken with ease. The laws of physics are being approached by virtually every car company.

    IMO, SRT will hit the numbers, maybe even this coming year. Already the performance is amazing.

    I can't wait for mine to come in.
     
  4. doctorbob

    doctorbob VCA Member - UT/AZ VCA Member

    Posts:
    1,604
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Location:
    Arizona
    Venom V. Excellent summation.
     
  5. JAY

    JAY Viper Owner

    Posts:
    1,425
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    Interesting and Healthy perspective ! All Good points and 100% agree ! I still believe the Best is yet to come ! :2tu: :2tu: :drive:
     
  6. balance

    balance Viper Owner

    Posts:
    97
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    Location:
    Victoria BC
    Thanks Venom V

    Very refreshing post. Gen V also on order ... hope to see it before Spring.

    Happy New year!
     
  7. 09 Venom

    09 Venom Viper Owner

    Posts:
    884
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Location:
    New York
    Well said!! I guess all the 458 owners must have their panties in a knot since the Gen V was faster around LS. Let me tell you something, they could care less. As can I the ZR1 was faster than the Gen V. Might i also add than no one mentions the fact we still have a good old manual tranny. That alone is reason to celebrate.
     
  8. kdaviper

    kdaviper Enthusiast

    Posts:
    553
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Marion, IN
    The majority of design and engineering work done on the Gen V was done by volunteers who put their own blood, sweat and tears into this car after working 12 hour days to revive a dying company. Nobody ever told Ralph and his co-workers that they HAD to work on a new generation of Viper. The gen V was a gift to the automotive community. If you don't like the gift because it's not what you want, feel free to give Chrysler's best and most passionate designers and engineers some tips and hints, but don't go around running your mouth like you know better than they do, because you probably DON'T.
     
  9. kdaviper

    kdaviper Enthusiast

    Posts:
    553
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Marion, IN
    And if anybody wants to prove to me that they have the knowledge and/or intelligence to do any engineering work, show me how to do something anybody with a bachelors in physics or engineering could do... let's say derive the multiplicity for an einstein solid in the low temperature limit.
     
  10. SSGViper

    SSGViper Viper Owner

    Posts:
    203
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Location:
    Golden, CO
    Another Newb who does not understand or "get" the Viper heritage. If you are surprised at the level of pessimism, you just don't get it. Up to this point, me·di·oc·ri·ty and Viper were never two words mentioned in the same sentence. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

    Definition of MEDIOCRITY

    1
    a : the quality or state of being mediocre
    b : moderate ability or value
    2
    : a mediocre person
    See mediocrity defined for English-language learners »

    Examples of MEDIOCRITY

    We were disappointed by the mediocrity of the new Viper as compared to the old ZR1.
     
  11. doctorbob

    doctorbob VCA Member - UT/AZ VCA Member

    Posts:
    1,604
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Location:
    Arizona
    Venom V has an excellent overview of what is going on in the Generation V Forum. He gets it. He has the passion for the Viper and he is buying a Stryker Red GTS. We all have been "Newbies" at some point and time. He is now becoming part of the Viper Nation. Please respect his opinion.

    I quote:
    " If you don't like the car, say so but at a certain point it becomes repetitive and sometimes whiny. If you've made your point, leave it at that. If you're that disappointed with the Gen V, why are you still posting on the Gen V forum? You clearly won't be buying it, so move on and let those of us who are considering buying one have meaningful dialogue."

    Just for the record (there are many more like me and have or owned multiple Vipers). I am not a "Newbie". I have had Vipers for 18 years and over the years eight have graced my garage. I currently have a 2008 ACR. I started with one of the first 200 RT/10s (you could call it "mediocre"). The roof leaked, the windows leaked, the top blew off, and the engine had a significant problem with the cylinder sleeves such that Dodge bought the car back. A Dodge executive called me and asked what could they do from me. I asked for a GTS since they were coming out in 1996. I did not hear back from him and I looked at the then new corvette. Out of the nowhere a Reliable Transport showed up with no notice and a new GTS was dropped at my doorstep in a (then) small Arizona community. SRT/Dodge has supported a small group of Viper owners for twenty years. Look forward to how this car evolves. Sorry if offended anyone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  12. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

    Posts:
    2,551
    Joined:
    May 18, 2001
    It's funny to me that the optimists want the pessimists to state how they feel ONCE and leave it be and don't post anymore in the Gen V area especially if they are not going to buy the car. Yet they (optimists) should get to post their optimism ad nauseum. Hmmmm......Interesting point of view.

    I agree with SSG post. Hence why you will not be able to sensor those of us that want to push SRT and Fiat to put the car back where it belongs. I'm not a Viper owner but I've been here for a long time and until this Gen V came out and lost badly I've never seen this desire to concede such a huge defeat by a few of you. But that's your (optimists) perspective and you are entitled to your opinion just as much as us percieved pessimists are. As long as people have passion for anything you will have representatives on both sides of the fence. If you can't see that we care and are passionate about this car hence our displeasure with its initial performance then that's very close minded of you.

    At the end of the day it's just a car folks. No need to be hating your fellow man because of a difference of approach to an inanimate object that we are all obviously fond of.
     
  13. tbsviper

    tbsviper Viper Owner

    Posts:
    502
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Good thread and agree with much that has been said. Congrats to those with orders in. Can't wait to see them. To those critical of the new design or its performance, it would be helpful if the comments could be consolidated to specific areas. For example, tires, brakes, HP, MSRP, interior, etc. that way constructive criticism/concerns could be identified versus rambling rants. Personally all Vipers are more capable than my driving skill and rev limiter in my head at my age so I consider the total package and I like what I see.
     
  14. slitherv10

    slitherv10 Viper Owner

    Posts:
    517
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    I agree with SSG and Sake above...

    The only reason your getting any whiners or PESSIMISTS is, one reason and one reason alone. We expected more from the Viper. Why, because of SRT. SRT held this car in secret for almost 2 years. It kept us guessing and pondering to such as extent that to most, it left us very OPTIMISTIC . We viper nation enthusiasts and owners have come to expect perfection through Performance in this Car since its inception in 1992. It had evolved through each Generation as the leader in Performance and style. I am putting the emphasis on Performance. Performance is what the Viper was always known for. We have all become Viper Idols because of it. Not the technology, and not the creature comforts that is what this New Gen V is based and marketed towards.
    I cannot speak for everyone and most certainly am not about to make an assumtion but, IN MY OPINION, and MY OPINION ALONE, the people that are the whiners and the pessimists are the ones that cannot afford the new cars. We are the ones that do not buy a car because its the newest thing out right now. We are not the ones with the big house and DR titles but the MR titles If i may say. Maybe we are the ones that bought this car "used" because we couldn't afford new but just saved every dollar every year until we did. The true die hards in my opinion. When you can just go out and by a 120000 dollar car, in my opinion, you are comfortable. If your not, then your the one who contributed the the USA recession. Buy what you can afford or die trying. True Viper enthusiasts. I truly am starting to believe that the "enthusiasts" are more die hards than the owners. Owning a Viper because of deep pockets is easy and makes you part of the nation. Owning one with short pockets and saving your pennies makes you a true enthusiast. I may get a small rap from some of you for this comment but, I am not speaking for all. I did mention that earlier. I am just speaing for the bigger market.
    The whiners and the pessimists say and do what they do because the care and love this Viper to extents that some as in the OP, will not understand. We are whining and the like because we hate to see our "children" get beat. We hate to see our "child" Mediocre. This is what this car is to some. We treat these cars like our own. We baby them and believe in them even when they cant compete,but, we do expect more. and we do not take second as a win. We all think our childeren are the best. Wether it is true or not. Everyones baby is the best looking,yet,we all know that is now the case. That is how we see this car. When it is proven otherwise (through these tests by third parties) , we hate it, We condone it, as we hate to hear the fact that our"baby" is not all it is thought to be.
    SRT should not have made such a huge "hoopla" on this car in the last few years to get our hopes up high. They continue to do so with no performance numbers yet expect us to order cars without them. Which car company does that. Why would someone in thier right mind pay 150000 for a car that in my opinion is known for its performance yet, no performance numbers are given out to encourage the sales. That smells fishy to me. Thus the stincky fishy smell so far in its test runs against the competition. Its obvious to us now what all the secrecy. I believe I speak for most here,but,if the new Viper would have blown away the competition with no comfy options ( as did the oh most popular ACR) , thier would have been no pessimists here and no whiners.
    Hopefully SRT will put my foot in my mouth with future developments of this Iconic figure. Until then, we remain Pessimistic and OPTIMISTIC of the future of this car.

    Like the old saying goes " IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME"

    We await the ACR


    Sorry If I offended anyone. This is just my opinion.
     
  15. Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

    Bill Pemberton Woodhouse VCA Member - West VCA Member

    Posts:
    5,207
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Location:
    Blair,Nebraska,USA
    Good comment ViperV and we do need to stop feeding the folks who constantly say they are not trolls, yet are almost 100% enthusiasts ( as listed ), have very , very few posts until around a month ago, do not own a Viper , yet are vehement that they are not here to stir , yet nothing positive is listed.

    The new car was designed on a budget likely about as much as GM spent to do the dash on the new Malibu, by folks often working 16 hours a day ( sorry, but the 12 hours a day is actually way under the true numbers ) and as noted it was by a company that only a few years ago was on the skids. With tons of positive press, and an interior that borders on the exotic, the new Snake is eliciting responses by the majority of enthusiasts that borders on animal lust. I know in 22 years in this crazy business I have never seen so many folks from other makes wandering over to the slithering side. From Lambos to Ferraris to Porsches and Corvettes, we will be seeing alot of new , Stryker brothers and sisters in 2013. We are getting our tidy whities a bit in a tangle when we are worrying about our regular car not quite up to snuff against a worthy top of the line GM competitor. Wonder where all the folks will go when our top model ( ACR ) comes out and dominates. Bet we see a flock of trolltheiasts disappear as there is nothing to stir in the bucket. Till then it is a pleasure to see the comments from so many videos, Autoweek, etc. blush over the tremendous machine built by the dedicated crew at SRT. Looks wise, we have Halle Berry and we are worried about Ellen DeGeneres with a blower causing us a bit of a hassle. Just one looked and folks are hooked .....................
     
  16. BlknBlu

    BlknBlu Viper Owner

    Posts:
    3,514
    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    I agree with Bill (Midwest values)...lol. But we need to let the new folks voice thier opinions and if we as VCA loyalists can read the threads, but choose no to respond. I have read every GEN V thread out there but choose which ones to respond to or add something too. No need to feed the animals and get everyone riled up. If the threads get ignored they slither down the list and are forgotten. Great Post

    Long live the Ring King

    Bruce
     
  17. canadian venom

    canadian venom Enthusiast

    Posts:
    325
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Much more trolling can be done on the Vette forum just looking at the rendering of next gen's Vette.....:lmao:
     
  18. Moundir

    Moundir Enthusiast

    Posts:
    1,816
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Location:
    Ny
    I think all the bs about this car from both sides of the coin needs to stop! There are trolls on both sides! Some are pom pom carrying , kool-aid drinking cheerleaders and others are just plain jealous broke ass haters. IMO you both are annoying in my book! There is nothing wrong with voicing one's opinion on an open forum. Let's keep it civil, and keep the focus on the car! If you like the car buy it, if you don't then don't! It's great to hear that the viper is attracting a lot of new owners as it desperately needed more sales! Let's just see how long they stay owners once they get bitten by the snake! :eater:
     
  19. VENOM V

    VENOM V Enthusiast

    Posts:
    1,318
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    First off, great to see others that are excited about this Gen V as I am. Love the enthusiasm!

    I thought everyone made solid points, and would like to respond to this one:

    You would be surprised how much some of us "newb's" understand and "get" the Viper heritage. I don't think there's a single Viper guy that isn't disappointed by the Laguna Seca defeat by the ZR1. But there are plenty of current Viper owners and newbies that choose to not dwell on one loss, we look at the bigger picture.

    We have lost a couple of battles, but not the war.

    Mediocrity? Really? Let's look at the big picture. Here's how I would rate the Viper, this doesn't sum up to mediocrity. My opinion only, but supported by the majority of the automotive press:

    Acceleration - world class
    Styling - world class
    Interior - world class
    "Toys", as Jalopnik calls them - world class
    Handling - world class
    Braking - very good, not world class YET
    Tires - very good, not world class YET

    Now here's what I've learned, reading posts by some of the more knowledgeable in this forum. I submit that the game is not over. It may be as simple as this - tweak these three things and the Viper may be able to beat the ZR1 at Laguna Seca:

    Tires
    Brake pads
    Aero, perhaps even the carbon fiber aero package that SRT will offer in February

    Those are easy knobs for SRT to turn! Didn't you notice that GM has been improving the Corvette year after year, why wouldn't you give SRT the benefit of the doubt that they will do the same?

    And if that's not enough, I'm sure SRT has a few tricks that up their sleeve when they introduce the Gen V ACR. And I'm sure they're stinging from the loss to the old ZR1 at Seca, and are highly motivated to make the Viper kick ass on the track.

    Keep the faith!
     
  20. InjectTheVenom

    InjectTheVenom VCA Associate Member

    Posts:
    6,859
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    A very well formulated post by VENOM V that I can only agree on :) Everything else has basically already been said, now let's see about how stuff is going to get done! Viper will again prevail!
     
  21. BPAG

    BPAG Enthusiast

    Posts:
    54
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Location:
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    I've known Bill for quite a few years now and can tell you that Bill doesn't have to sell Vipers, he chooses to. Woodhouse is the #1 F-Series Dealer in the nation and the #2 Ram dealer, and a Top 5 Chrysler Group dealer overall, and he can and does do quite well even without the Vipers. I can certainly understand the point you were trying to make, but Bill's passion for the Viper has nothing to do with drinking Kool-Aid.
     
  22. Jack B

    Jack B Enthusiast

    Posts:
    3,483
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2000
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Just wondering if you are a Viper owner per your diatribe above. Your comment about Pemberton is way off base and I personally hope that the moderators start locking out individuals like yourself that add nothing and when put to task result to personal attacks.
     
  23. ferraritoviper

    ferraritoviper Viper Owner

    Posts:
    594
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Location:
    Ridgefield, CT
    Well put Bill, as usual! I for one prefer Viper kool aid, to poisoness troll juice... hope our members don't do a reverse split, and troll the CF when the C7 is announced. That would not be an honorable act!
     
  24. ferraritoviper

    ferraritoviper Viper Owner

    Posts:
    594
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Location:
    Ridgefield, CT
    +1 and then some. To slur the Viper Oracle is unacceptable by VCA members...moderators, PLEASE wake up!!
     
  25. BlackSnake99

    BlackSnake99 Viper Owner

    Posts:
    1,610
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Location:
    Northern Virginia

    Reread his post. He doesn't slur anybody. He is making an example of a theoretical argument that COULD be made.

    At least that's how I read it.
     
  26. ferraritoviper

    ferraritoviper Viper Owner

    Posts:
    594
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Location:
    Ridgefield, CT
    Maybe so, but theoretacally speaking if the queen had balls she'd be king :)
     
  27. BlackSnake99

    BlackSnake99 Viper Owner

    Posts:
    1,610
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    And if you had any you wouldn't need a red convertible.



    :D
     
  28. ferraritoviper

    ferraritoviper Viper Owner

    Posts:
    594
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Location:
    Ridgefield, CT
    I hear ya BlackSnake...but it was loads of fun, and turned alot of heads. I like black also, but only when its going to be mixed with white on my new Gen V:omg:
     
  29. BlackSnake99

    BlackSnake99 Viper Owner

    Posts:
    1,610
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Can't wait to see pics.
     
  30. commandomatt

    commandomatt Enthusiast

    Posts:
    213
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Location:
    Dolores, Colorado
    Bill P.

    Have to ask. Do you have a Gen V on order for yourself ?

    If so, what you get ?

    Matt
     

Share This Page