Paxton Issues

[steponz]

My car seemsto be surging in the upper 5k rpm range. Then when put under boost it blows out flames at around 3500 rpms.

Anybody have similar issues or suggestions? Does a loose belt do this? or a bad wire?

Also with a 2005 what FCU washer and ring is everyone using?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[crazyfast]

Did you change your plugs or do you still have the factory plugs? Also did you gap the plugs to .035 range? If not you could be blowing out the spark.

Aother posibility is belt slippage...I'm dealing with this problem right now....in my case the belt slips pretty bad but I do not experiance a major surging sensation.

You need to be carful with the wires they are easily damaged..they are a carbon conductor style, no actual wire inside instead it uses a fiberous material. Anyway when pulling them off be very carefull. If you had a bad wire it would miss pretty good and be more of a constant problem through out the rpm range, not just from 5000rpm and up.

Are you just reving it and getting the flames? Cars with cats will get more of a blow torch type effect if you are just reving it up. Cars with out cats will get a fire ball between shifts...but wont get the blow torch type effect while reving the engine up. With the blower, around 3500 rpm your A/F should be getting rich hopfully in the 11.xx to 1 area....that could account for the flames, if you are just free reving it.

What exactly are you doing when you are seeing the flames?

The instructions say run the bigger FCU disc on 05-06 and modded 03-04 cars.

 

[steponz]

The car just seems to stop at 5k rpms..... I could have the gas pedal all the way down and it does nothing it just starts surging after this happens... Then it starts running really rich and does the blow torch thing...

It's interesting because I can just run it normally and the car works fine.....

As soon as I give it a good amount of rev and then wot.... It just starts to hesitate
then totally stops doing anything at about 5k...

It's not very easy to explain, so I am trying my best....

Plugs are gapped like that.

What happens when your belt slips? When your wide open does it just stop when
you start climbing in the higher rpms?

Joe

 

[Viper Specialty]

I would highly advise pulling out a spark plug and seeing what it looks like.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

The car just seems to stop at 5k rpms..... I could have the gas pedal all the way down and it does nothing it just starts surging after this happens... Then it starts running really rich and does the blow torch thing...
Joe

So this is just sitting there reving or are you driving it or on a dyno? How do you know it's rich?

Have you got any gauges on the car yet? Air fuel, fuel pressure, boost. The air fuel would be nice to know.

What happens when your belt slips? When your wide open does it just stop when
you start climbing in the higher rpms?

Joe

Your problem sounds much more serious than belt slippage. Most guys don't realize the belt is slipping until they get a gauge on the car or monitor the boost somehow, usally the boost will fluctuate a couple PSI. You could be an extreme case with some major belt slippage though.

This was a used kit right? Did you get a new belt or run the old one?

Pull out a few plugs and see what they look like....take a picture, we can take a look.

 

[steponz]

I checked the plugs tonight and nothing wrong with them...

The interesting part is that I took out 3 from each side and after I replaced them..
I went out for a ride and the hesitating issue wasn't happening.....

About 30 to 40 minutes later it returned.....

It starts hesitating and then shooting flames.....

I really think it has to do with the wires when the car is running hot...
Loosing spark and not burning fuel....Then catching the excessive fuel... and the whole blow torch effect....

Anybody have any ideas?

I think I am going to give AB a call and get some of those beautiful wires he makes..

Anybody have good step by step directions on replacing the old wires....I know I am
going to have to take the intake mandifold off....

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Viper Specialty]

if the plugs are being fouled with carbon when driving far enough up the insulator, they may not be igniting the mixture, tossing it out the exhaust instead and creating one hell of a miss. (and a flame out in the exhaust would be extremely probable)

 

[Bolt]

Look closely at the Paxton switching box. I had a fuel pump relay stick on after the unit was 5 months old. When I put my new switching box on it runs rich now.

 

[steponz]

Update .....

I replaced the plugs with NGK 4291's with a gap of .035 and it idles fine..

When I hit 3500rpms it hesitates... If I feather it up to 5k rpms it does the blow torching....

Anybody have any ideas???

I have the 8:1 disk in the FCU...

Joe

 

[Joseph Dell]

What BOLT said. i'd check that and/or put a different FMU disk on there.

you've got a PM!

JD

 

[Bobpantax]

If it is still malfunctioning after trying the above, since you are in Tampa, bring the car into Levin in Miami and have him diagnose the problem.

 

[Joseph Dell]

What Bob said. Take it to DLM if my other PM'd tips aren't working.

JD

 

[steponz]

Hey Guys.... Here's where I am at now...

I measured the fuel pressure today and I got some really interesting results...
No extra fuel is being pumped... It basically hovers at 55 to 60....

Even if I go up to 4500RPM..no extra fuel..... What else is interesting is I am not pinging... Which is really good...Likely because of the Water/**** kit......
I have heard what sounds like and it is not pretty...... So thats a good thing...

So I went to get the trusty multi-meter out to check if the pumps are coming on and sure enough it wouldn't work... Even with a new battery.... Man... Its always something...

So I figured I would give Doug a call to leave a message and sure enough he answered the phone.... Do you believe it..Doug was working on the holiday...True ******** viper tuner.....

Anyway he gave me some things to check like a kinked vacuum lines... Sure enough there were no kinks...I also came to the conclusion that it couldn't be a vacuum problem because the water **** kit is still working... At least I think it is.....

My next thing to check was the FCU... I noticed something very intereting when I opened it up... There is only one spring retainer.....

In the diagrams I have downloaded off of the paxton site it shows 2 no matter what year viper you have......

So I am thinking this is probably causing the issue...

What's also interesting is that this kit was supposed to be off of a 2003 viper...

Interesting because we found something engine pieces in the supercharger when we recieved the kit......

What's really intersting is that no one has ever opened the FCU before..... Because as soon as I twisted one of the bolts it tore the label.... because of where the label was placed.....

So anybody know if this would cause my issue????? I wasn't able to ask Doug about this... I figured he went home and enjoyed some of the holiday..

Thanks for your time....

Joe

 

[steponz]

Some updates...

I talked to Doug and it's ok to have only one retainer with the 8:1 FCU...

Now I have to find the split-second box... Having a hard time finding it....

Looks like I am going to have to take off the side sill to see where it is... I have looked inside the cab everywhere and can't find it and no vacuum line......

I am traveling this week, So hopefully on friday I will post an update..

joe

 

[Viper X]

Sounds like the two additional Paxton supplied fuel pumps aren't being turned on or don't work correctly. You should have about 100 psi under boost with both pumps running. If you're not, try and find the split second box. Mine was mounted under the dash just above my right knee.

If memory serves, it should have a vacuum line to it. The vacuum signal (or lack of vacuum) tells the split second box to turn the supplemental pumps on. It also controls / pulls ignition timing at rpm.

If I were having this issue, I'd take the car to Doug. It's too easy to hurt things.

Dan

 

[Joseph Dell]

Sounds like the two additional Paxton supplied fuel pumps aren't being turned on or don't work correctly. You should have about 100 psi under boost with both pumps running. If you're not, try and find the split second box. Mine was mounted under the dash just above my right knee.

If memory serves, it should have a vacuum line to it. The vacuum signal (or lack of vacuum) tells the split second box to turn the supplemental pumps on. It also controls / pulls ignition timing at rpm.

If I were having this issue, I'd take the car to Doug. It's too easy to hurt things.

Dan

Exactly what I said. But the split second is probably not under the side sills. check the engine compartment OR get paxton to email you the instructions on where they say to put it. 8:1 odds say that it is where the manual says it should be.

JD

 

[steponz]

I have looked all over for it... Already downloaded the instructions... Not in the cab at all ...I took off most of the pieces on the inside to find it....Not there...
Thats why I will be taking the side sill off to see where its routed too...

I really think its in the fender...by the sill...

Joe

 

[Jim Wilson]

As some folks mentioned before......what is your A/F ratio? It sounds like your WAY too rich.

 

[steponz]

No offense Jim.. But read the rest of the posts..... No fuel pressure means I am running lean......

Either way thanks for the 2 cents......

Joe

 

[steponz]

Update..... By taking the triangle piece by the side sill I was able to find the split second box.....

Told ya so.... Joseph....lol.....Doug also.....

Doesn't look like there is a pinched vacuum line...

I am going to turn the car on tomorrow.. to see if I am getting a fuel pressure... I am also going to see if I can get a new multi-meter or make sure I have a new battery to use the old one..

Gonna call Doug tomorrow to see what he says.....

Anybody know of a good way for testing the split second box?

Thanks....

Joe

 

[plumcrazy]

i dont know anything about split second boxes but it being in the sill, could that be a problem. heat issue ?

 

[Joseph Dell]

pressurize the vaccume line and take the car up to 3500rpm @ idle. that should activate it. there is a software connection on the SS box... if you can connect to that, you can see the settings on it.

i'm surprised you found the SS in the sill... but congrats! BTW - the FMU is mechanical (controlled by vaccume) but if the fuel pumps aren't coming on, they can't do anything! so they probably aren't...

JD

 

[QuikSilver]

.............. or you could give Dan a call. He installed my Split Second controler.

DC Performance welcomes your business!

3370 So. Livonia Ave
Los Angeles, Ca 90034
Tel: 310-841-6996
Fax: 310-841-6496
Toll Free: 800-841-8979

Quik

 

[Fast Too]

I didn't install the SS with my Paxton setup, I had VEC3 put in instead and still have the SS sitting new in the box. If that is your issue and Paxton won't warrant it shoot me a PM. I am sure we can work something out for it.

 

[steponz]

Fast too.... I think we could work out something...

You are PM'd...

I really think that heat had to do with it... Totally makes sense because when the car
was running well it was cool... Then after the car was running for a while...things would start happening...
Now I think the box is toast... I'll fill you guys in later today.....When I do some more testing...

Joseph.. I don't have a serial cable on any of my laptops... or the software to interface with it.... Any suggestions?

Joe

 

[Viper X]

Glad you found your SS box.

Heat can and will cause problems with electronic components - it may be fried. You may need a new one.

Yes, if you are running on the stock fuel pump only, your engine is very, very lean under boost at rpm and dangerous.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[Jim Wilson]

steponz, serial to USB adapters are availible at your local electronic store; I use one made by Belkin. If you need the SS software, I could burn a copy for you and send it to you. Or, if the file is small enough it might be email-able. The version I have is 1.5.0, I'm not sure if there have been updates since then.

 

[steponz]

I was able to connect to the split second box.....
Thanks to Jim... I appreciate you sending me the install...

So I don't think its the split second box.... I am getting another one from Fast Too anyway just to rule it out... Plus I get the longer cabling to wire it the right way inside the cab...
Big Thanks goes out to FastToo.....

I was looking at how the wires should be spliced going into the PCM and I am a little troubled....

The paxton directions relate to pins and wire colors...
Its pretty late so I wasn't able to get the connector off.. But when I was comparing colors ,it looks pretty off.....

Does anybody have the right color combos for a 2005 viper?

I just want to make sure....

If not tomorrow I will open the connector to look at the pins to confirm the setup..
I have to get it ready for the new box anyway....

Thanks guys...

Joe

 

[Joseph Dell]

Did you ever verify if the SS box was activating the secondary fuel pump? it still sounds like it isn't...

JD

 

[steponz]

Nope haven't done that yet.... I am taking it step by step through the process...

I will be rewiring the car myself anyway, so I am checking to make sure that the wires are setup properly....

Today I will test voltage to see if they are turning on....

Is there another way I should test to see if the pumps are coming on??

Joe