Porsche develops 7 speed gear box

k4site

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It is a 7 speed sequential transmission. Like a motorcycle up and down but no gate. I believe the race vipers and corvettes use them
 

k4site

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I think porsche uses them in their cup cars and I know corvette uses them C6R's maybe only 6 speed. The lexus is a 7 speed automatic, nothing approaching a race transmission.
 

Vipermann

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Whay would anyone want to shift that much? ... there is such a thing as too much of a good thing
 

k4site

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Porsche has a narrow power band so they need 7 speeds to keep within it. A just purchased a viper and I am not sure how the ratios are placed. In my 02 zo6 5 gears were quality spaced and the 6 speed was overdirve. In my other vetts the first 4 speeds were equal and the other 2 spped were overdrive. Maybe someone can explain how viper does it?
 

V10 ICBM

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Yep - this is the dual clutch system they are going replace tiptronic with - it was to come out first on the tt.
It is a paddle ****** (ie the stick isreally just a switch for up or down shifts) - but key is that it will a durabl version of a sequential box - it just means your next gear is already selected before you shift.

As for the intro where Porsches are seen to beable to hang with vipers and Ferraris - think that guy has never ever driven either a porshe, ferrari or Viper. Key here is getting out of the hole. While the Viper has grunt, it must rely on tires to get the torque down. The porsche has low weight and great weight transfer to get the power down MUCH earlier than the Viper. And well, Ferraris are pretty... the only thing that impresses me is the 430 for the power but not its weight, just too soft (a 430 CS - doesnt yet exist but would be better). Fact is, a solid 380hp car can outperform a Viper or Ferrari.

As for shifting, I need to shift about the same between a Viper and a Porsche to be competitive. So, if a clean tranny-preserving shift takes about 1000 ms and paddle shist takes less time off throttle, 2 equal cars with equal drivers, the car with a dual clutch box with paddles will pull away during the difference of time the other car is off power - I am not clear but I understood about 100-200 ms for this box - so the shifts take 1/5 the time. If you shift 5 times - The Dual clutch box car (porsche) will have only been off throttle say .5 to 1 second in 5 shift track (say a 1.38 min track) The Viper would have been off the gas 5 seconds.

So, can DC give me one? Porsche will giving you the option on all their cars from 290 to 650 hp. Why wont DC give me the choice?
 
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wormdoggy

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Yep - this is the dual clutch system they are going replace tiptronic with - it was to come out first on the tt.
It is a paddle ****** (ie the stick isreally just a switch for up or down shifts) - but key is that it will a durabl version of a sequential box - it just means your next gear is already selected before you shift.

As for the intro where Porsches are seen to beable to hang with vipers and Ferraris - think that guy has never ever driven either a porshe, ferrari or Viper. Key here is getting out of the hole. While the Viper has grunt, it must rely on tires to get the torque down. The porsche has low weight and great weight transfer to get the power down MUCH earlier than the Viper. And well, Ferraris are pretty... the only thing that impresses me is the 430 for the power but not its weight, just too soft (a 430 CS - doesnt yet exist but would be better). Fact is, a solid 380hp car can outperform a Viper or Ferrari.

As for shifting, I need to shift about the same between a Viper and a Porsche to be competitive. So, if a clean tranny-preserving shift takes about 1000 ms and paddle shist takes less time off throttle, 2 equal cars with equal drivers, the car with a dual clutch box with paddles will pull away during the difference of time the other car is off power - I am not clear but I understood about 100-200 ms for this box - so the shifts take 1/5 the time. If you shift 5 times - The Dual clutch box car (porsche) will have only been off throttle say .5 to 1 second in 5 shift track (say a 1.38 min track) The Viper would have been off the gas 5 seconds.

So, can DC give me one? Porsche will giving you the option on all their cars from 290 to 650 hp. Why wont DC give me the choice?


Right about the above. I saw a clip from top gear where they time trialed the BMW M6 / Aston Martin DB9 and the Porsche C4. Bottom line is the Porsche had better time then both cars with 150hp less.

Patrick
 

V10 ICBM

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F355 - Nope - this is not an auto box. Its a dual clutch system. Of couse you can have it run automatically but these are solid shifts from one gear to the next - no torque converter. It just means you do have to lift as the CPU will momentarily back off the power to allow the shift - franckly, because the syncros will not be used at the moment of shift - I would expect this worth 3-5 seconds at my track. Oh, you will never miss a shift or lock your rear up.
See below:

"Sporting two clutches in place of the Tiptronic’s torque converter, the DSG sequential-manual was greeted with open arms by the enthusiast community. Always engaged, the DSG unit uses an inner and an outer clutch to engage and disengage cogs. The outer pack drives gears 1, 3, and 5; while the inner clutch pack drives 2, 4, and 6. Using complicated electronic algorithms, the driver’s selected gear is engaged by one clutch pack while the previous gear is disengaged by the other. The result is lag-free, seamless, predictable shifts that can be easily tuned for different situations by simply changing the clutch pack’s modulation. Compared to the slow, jerky, and cumbersome Tiptronic gearbox, the DSG is light years ahead and miles better.
So, it makes logical sense that Porsche should choose to assimilate that technology at the first opportunity (especially now that they’re a majority owner of VW group); which they did. But in grand Porsche over-engineering fashion, they’ve gone one better; quite literally. Developing their own variant of the DSG ’box, Porsche filed a patent indicating the company will be unleashing the world’s first seven speed DSG gearbox upon the public.
Porsche
Expected to see duty in everything from the lowly (relatively) Cayman and Boxster models all the way up to the upcoming Carrera GT-based GT1 racecar, it turns out the development program is surprisingly far along, and Porsche apparently hoped to have had the gearbox completed for use in the new 911 Turbo. "
 

Paul Hawker

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Just got back from driving several transmissioned cars.
Lambo Gallardo had a manual, gated 6 spd.
Ferrari F430 had paddle shifter, no clutch.
Porsche Turbo had wheel mounted button shifters, no clutch.

Lambo with gate was old school, and the most fun. Also easy to drive slow. Did about 20 full throttle runs from 30-100. Great fun. 8,000+shift points.

Ferrari had great sound and quick as a bunny shifts, right at redline. Fantastic for full throttle runs out in the desert, but felt terrible running around parking lots at low speeds.

Porsche turbo was amazingly fast shifting, and accellerating. Once you got the Turbo spooled up the car was scalding fast. Down low it felt like a typical 6 cyl. Felt better around town than the Ferrari, but overall it was nowhere as fun to drive as the Ferrari or Lambo. It did everything so will that there was little driver involvement. Maybe the best car of the group, but not nearly as much fun to drive.

Ferrari F430 was the star of the day. The one I would most like to own.

Also drove a Maserati Grand Sport Spider, Jag XK, and Bentley GT. Great day all around
 

DodgeViper01

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I sure would love if they put this setup in a new 2008 viper. Even better with paddle shifters.

I would love to have a Viper with Paddles but the problem is many people would not want it because that is not the "american car" thing to do. I say to them, drive a F1 or E Gear car and then come back to me.
 
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wormdoggy

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I have never driven a car with sequential shifting/ paddle shifting but I would certainly like to try........

This is a question of old school driving vs. new school technology and like or not I think we will be seeing a lot more vehicles with this system. Its just a matter of time before it becomes an option in Vettes, if it isn;t already??

I just wonder if manual sticks will one day be a collectors item, never mind the car..........just a manual stick in that car.

Just my 2 cents.

Patrick



Interesting reading for the novice like me ......
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/sequential-gearbox.htm
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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I just wonder if manual sticks will one day be a collectors item,

The same thing was said when automatics came out 50 years ago. But there will always be people that enjoy shifting and the control it gives them.

Turbos, superchargers, automatics, ABS, fuel injection, there really isn't anything overly new about this technology. Some cars cater to some folks and some cars cater to other folks. If I wanted all the bells and whistles and driver aids I'd buy one of those other cars. I didn't want them, so I bought a Viper.
 

Sleepersnake

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There was such an uproar, mostly in the US, over the new M5 having only the SMG 7 speed gearbox that BMW is releasing a 6-speed manual this fall.

Americans don't seem to be as infatuated with driving like Michael Schumacher as the Europeans are.
 

Viperfreak2

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Funny culture comment about the Europeans! Where F1 goes, they follow. BUT, when you rent a car in Europe, it's tough to find an automatic. When you rent a car in the states, it's almost impossible to find a stick! Go figure. Ever seen a fully loaded Mercedes Vito mini-van with a six-speed stick on the dash?
 

V10 ICBM

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I'll wait a few years to see how strong this Dual clutch box is before I make a move.
I do like old school but also am open to things that make the car a better sports car.
For the street, I would not bother with more complexity since you would never see the benefit unless you street race.
 

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