Shell's response on 15/40 Rotella in Viper-Tom?

[viperdrummer]

I thought I recalled a thread where our resident oil guru, Tom was saying you can use Rotella 15/40 mineral based oil in the Viper, and that actually it may be better due to additional additives (may have that wrong)

Anyway, I was tempted given the price of Mobil1 but before I made the move I emailed Shell and got a response from a Shell chemist as follows:

"Having more additives is not ALWAYS a good thing, as the levels of phosphorus in our oil, which are part of the strong anti-wear package could, in isolated instances, cause issues with the emissions control systems .Chrysler specifies that oil used in the Viper engine should meet MS-10725 spec, and preferably be synthetic. Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15W-40 meets neither of those specs and its use could void the warranty on the engine. We do not recommend its use in your situation. At the current time, none of our oils are qualified against MS-10725."

Anyway, i know nothing about oil (particualrly compared to Tom) but this concerned me enough to stick with Mobil1.

 

[treesnake]

Thanks
That is good info. to know.

 

[eucharistos]

good post, though does have a little corporate cy-**** ring to it.....

tom when you reply (tia, btw), pls inform what is MS-10725 and why is microsoft messing with automotive oil anyway


also Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15W-40 interchangeable with Mobil Delvac 1300 super 15w-40 in viper?


peace

 

[sniper1]

I thought I recalled a thread where our resident oil guru, Tom was saying you can use Rotella 15/40 mineral based oil in the Viper, and that actually it may be better due to additional additives (may have that wrong)

Anyway, I was tempted given the price of Mobil1 but before I made the move I emailed Shell and got a response from a Shell chemist as follows:

"Having more additives is not ALWAYS a good thing, as the levels of phosphorus in our oil, which are part of the strong anti-wear package could, in isolated instances, cause issues with the emissions control systems .Chrysler specifies that oil used in the Viper engine should meet MS-10725 spec, and preferably be synthetic. Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15W-40 meets neither of those specs and its use could void the warranty on the engine. We do not recommend its use in your situation. At the current time, none of our oils are qualified against MS-10725."

Anyway, i know nothing about oil (particualrly compared to Tom) but this concerned me enough to stick with Mobil1.

PULL UP A CHAIR CUZ HERE WE GO AGAIN...
I'm certain there are so many more reasons as to why we SHOULD use only the recommended oil in our expensive Viper Engines. Good info, Thanks...
DING DING DING !

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I thought I recalled a thread where our resident oil guru, Tom was saying you can use Rotella 15/40 mineral based oil in the Viper, and that actually it may be better due to additional additives (may have that wrong)

Anyway, I was tempted given the price of Mobil1 but before I made the move I emailed Shell and got a response from a Shell chemist as follows:

"Having more additives is not ALWAYS a good thing, as the levels of phosphorus in our oil, which are part of the strong anti-wear package could, in isolated instances, cause issues with the emissions control systems .Chrysler specifies that oil used in the Viper engine should meet MS-10725 spec, and preferably be synthetic. Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15W-40 meets neither of those specs and its use could void the warranty on the engine. We do not recommend its use in your situation. At the current time, none of our oils are qualified against MS-10725."

Anyway, i know nothing about oil (particualrly compared to Tom) but this concerned me enough to stick with Mobil1.

This explanation is exactly why you want to use the oil. The additive used for wear protection contains phosphorus. Your Viper engine was designed with an oil that had high phosphorus.

More recently, OEMs believe that phosphorus harms the long term durability of catalytic converters (after 80,000 miles.) However, they aren't that good at testing this phenomena, since unlike engine dyno evaluations for wear, sludge, and dispersancy, they cannot come up with an engine test to measure catalyst life. So therefore they have an arbitrary chemical limit that has been reduced from 0.12% (API SG, SH) to 0.10% (API SL) and now 0.08% (API SM.) Along with these reductions have come complaints from engine builders that they are destroying flat tappet engine builds (cam and sliding lifter failures.) You probably have noticed the upsurge in "break-in oil" or the Joe Gibbs "Hot Rod Oil."

New API categories are supposed to be backwards compatible, meaning they work in the older engines, not just the newer engines. The new API SM oils work in newer engines because they all have roller lifters, not sliding. New engines have better finish on cylinder walls, etc, etc. sp API SM is fine for new engines. To my knowledge, other than some extended dyno testing, there is no consumer-representative fleet test showing new oils work as well in older design engines. And it still doesn't answer why engine builders are complaining about new oils.

So my answer is that the Rotella (and other diesel engine oils) only has as much "harmful" phosphorus as the oil you used to buy at Walmart two years ago (API SL or API SJ, or API SH) which is what the engine was designed for. Maybe it's helpful to think that the diesel oil of today is more like the oil the engineers used to build the Gen 2 engine back in 1995. The corporate speak from the chemist is standard issue when oil categories change.

I can't dig up specs on MS10725 at the moment. However, this presentation by a Shell guy says their 4x4 SUV oil meets it. Therefore I suspect is is a viscosity grade issue and that 15W40 is simply not eligible (like oils above 10W-xx cannot be fuel economy oils by rule, not by tests)
http://www.hollonoil.com/PDF/2006ProductPresentation.pdf

When I find them, I will post.

Any oil can be replaced by other oil anytime. If your question was whether Shell and Mobil diesel oils are interchangable, then yes. Either are so well formulated that it doesn't matter which.

 

[sniper1]

 

[eucharistos]

thanks again tom

(delvac mail in rebate until 4/30, works out to less than $10/gal incl tax at wally world), putting it in the MB too

 

[Jerome Sparich]

Most of us know what Toms' qualifications are in this field, can I ask what yours are?

Thanks

 

[FrankBarba]

Geez....I have been using Rotella in my viper since 1995, i have never had any problems. Infact i used it in my 1995 Race Car & the motor never quit....26K hard track miles...

 

[GR8_ASP]

Tom, Tom, Tom. How can you say that no modern engines have slider followers. Direct acting or bucket follower engines have sliding valvetrain surfaces, with significantly higher contact stresses than the flat tappet followers of old (or new NASCAR style). They do have an advantage in that the frictional surface can be made more wear resistant through the material or coatings.

As to the catalyst aging concern I assume you are aware of all the catalyst aging testing that has taken place over the past 30 years, which has resulted in significant changes in the elements that reduce the catalyst efficiency over the vehicles life. And you are also probably aware that the OEM is required to warranty said parts for an extended period. I realize Vipers are probably low on the long term aging aspect but applied to a large fleet your recommendation could be very costly to someone. If an oil company recommended their product that did not meet the written specifications, with the knowledge of the potential liability, they would be crazy.

Note MS stands for material standard not Microsoft.

 

[eucharistos]

Note MS stands for material standard not Microsoft.

thanks for responding - lol-ed

 

[sniper1]

Most of us know what Toms' qualifications are in this field, can I ask what yours are?

Thanks

Sure you can ask

 

[viperdrummer]

Tom, as always I enjoyed your response, although my lack of technical knowledge tends my make my eyes glaze over as I read it.

The dilemna is a Shell chemist tells me emphatically DO NOT USE HIS OIL (15-40 Rotella) IN A VIPER. He says it fails to meet 2 specs required of a Viper engine, could cause emmissions issues, and could void the warranty. If I were to, God forbid, blow my motor on my 09 (could even be unrelated reason) and Dodge, Fiat , Joe's Vipers or whomever we are dealing with at the time tears down the engine and says what the heck were you doing running this stuff in the engine , I don't think sending them copies of your well reasoned (and perhaps correct) posts is going to get me out of the warranty jam.

Clearly, folks--you, Frank and perhaps others have had no issues, but I have put as much as 60,000 on a Viper and probably avaeraged 40,000 on 5. I am inclined to run what Shell and Dodge tell me to run. I just thought it important to lay out Shell's position. (maybe they are covering their a$$)

No offense and as I have said I have learned much from your comments--I just guess I am not a thrillseeker. Thanks

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

As to the catalyst aging concern I assume you are aware of all the catalyst aging testing that has taken place over the past 30 years, which has resulted in significant changes in the elements that reduce the catalyst efficiency over the vehicles life. And you are also probably aware that the OEM is required to warranty said parts for an extended period. I realize Vipers are probably low on the long term aging aspect but applied to a large fleet your recommendation could be very costly to someone. If an oil company recommended their product that did not meet the written specifications, with the knowledge of the potential liability, they would be crazy.

In the early '80s I was part of the OEM-industry group to establish a new procedure (like the Sequence III, V, VI for the API certification) for the "Oil Protection of Emissions Systems Test" (OPEST). Catalyst aging tests at SWRI showed pure ZDDP would affect catalysts; fully formulated oils did not. At that time, Japanese papers showed the same. Since there is still no definitive test procedures today to demonstrate negative catalyst effects, there is no opportunity for formulating to minimize emissions system degradation (and allow the level of ZDDP to be determined by performance.) All that has occured in 20-30 years is the ultra-convenient chemical limit being lowered in even number (0.12- 0.10 -0.08) increments. There seems to be a lack of transparency regarding how the OEMs and EPA agree that lower phosphorus extends the functional lifetime of catalysts if there isn't a test for it and there certainly is a veil over how many catalysts are replaced under warranty. If you can point me to any data on this, please help.

My point is that the level of ZDDP in today's diesel oils is not "high", it is the same as that of yesterday's gasoline engine oils. The Gen 1, 2, and 3 (I would think) engines were designed prior to API SM, so if an owner stockpiled a lifetime of the then-current oil they would only have ZDDP like in these diesel oils. Buckets, yes. Silly me. But it highlights that metallurgy changes may allow low phos oils in "new" engines. I would like a dual oil system where oils for older engine designs remain available. Since there isn't, what is out there that "looks" like that kind of oil? For now, diesel oils.

Let's also put this in perspective: no one is disagreeing the phosphorus material is good for engines. It is very good for engines. We disagree on how harmful it is on the catalytic converter's efficiency over a projected functional lifetime (as in whether it works at 90% at 80,000 miles or 120,000 miles.)

 

[sniper1]

Tom, as always I enjoyed your response, although my lack of technical knowledge tends my make my eyes glaze over as I read it.

The dilemna is a Shell chemist tells me emphatically DO NOT USE HIS OIL (15-40 Rotella) IN A VIPER. He says it fails to meet 2 specs required of a Viper engine, could cause emmissions issues, and could void the warranty. If I were to, God forbid, blow my motor on my 09 (could even be unrelated reason) and Dodge, Fiat , Joe's Vipers or whomever we are dealing with at the time tears down the engine and says what the heck were you doing running this stuff in the engine , I don't think sending them copies of your well reasoned (and perhaps correct) posts is going to get me out of the warranty jam.

Clearly, folks--you, Frank and perhaps others have had no issues, but I have put as much as 60,000 on a Viper and probably avaeraged 40,000 on 5. I am inclined to run what Shell and Dodge tell me to run. I just thought it important to lay out Shell's position. (maybe they are covering their a$$)

No offense and as I have said I have learned much from your comments--I just guess I am not a thrillseeker. Thanks

ViperDrummer, I say don't waste your time thinking of using 15/40 in your EXPENSIVE Viper engine . Follow your warranty directions. Because when all else fails, we should always read and follow the INSTRUCTIONS from the manufacture. However, if TOM is willing to SIGN a legally BINDING contract with you and everyone else that wants to use to use 15/40 in their Viper engines,in which he will cover your warranty with no questions asked, I say go for it.
I know that won't happen !
TOM has great information and theories but wheres the proof of use and effects of use in VIPER engines on paper and supported by the industry and not a guru...
I'll stick with whats reccomended, and everyone else can make their own choice as to what goes into their Viper.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Your images are excellent and I am still LMAO !!!!! Good article too.

 

[X-Metal]

ViperDrummer, I say don't waste your time thinking of using 15/40 in your EXPENSIVE Viper engine . Follow your warranty directions. Because when all else fails, we should always read and follow the INSTRUCTIONS from the manufacture. However, if TOM is willing to SIGN a legally BINDING contract with you and everyone else that wants to use to use 15/40 in their Viper engines,in which he will cover your warranty with no questions asked, I say go for it.
I know that won't happen !
TOM has great information and theories but wheres the proof of use and effects of use in VIPER engines on paper and supported by the industry and not a guru...
I'll stick with whats reccomended, and everyone else can make their own choice as to what goes into their Viper.

since your doubting Tom, you might as well say that 90% of the field in racing Viper engines, as well as most other OEM's use Shell Rotella, oh, not to mention most motorcycle race teams.
the reponse from the chemist at Shell was EPA, and PC motivated, not a mechanically engineered answer. read between the lines.
Shell Rotella is used in more racing and street engines than most other oils combined.
yes, i have an engineering degree, i have worked for Yamaha, Kawasaki, and others so i can substantiate that Tom is 100% correct. i know personally that Rotella is used by more than a few BIG Viper racing teams.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Tom I don't know how you stay so calm. I'd like to know your secret.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

ViperDrummer, I say don't waste your time thinking of using 15/40 in your EXPENSIVE Viper engine . Follow your warranty directions. Because when all else fails, we should always read and follow the INSTRUCTIONS from the manufacture. However, if TOM is willing to SIGN a legally BINDING contract with you and everyone else that wants to use to use 15/40 in their Viper engines,in which he will cover your warranty with no questions asked, I say go for it.
I know that won't happen !
TOM has great information and theories but wheres the proof of use and effects of use in VIPER engines on paper and supported by the industry and not a guru...
I'll stick with whats reccomended, and everyone else can make their own choice as to what goes into their Viper.

Just because what Tom is recommending is not endorsed by the *factory* does not mean he is wrong. He is right. 1200ppm of ZDDP is better than 800ppm when it comes to engine wear.

You do have a point about the warranty, and for that reason I suppose the only safe* answer is to run the oil the factory says to run.


*safe for the maintaining the warranty, not the engine.

 

[Jerome Sparich]

Sure you can ask

OK then, just what are your qualifications pertaining to the subject at hand?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Please note that maintaining and proving the longevity and effectiveness of all emissions control elements is required by both the EPA and CARB. Both the OEM and the regulatory agencies purchase aged vehicles for proof testing, in addition to internal durability evaluation. If testing indicates non compliance a recall can be directed and/or fines levied. So, an OEM or lubricant manufacturer or marketer would be insane to promote something that does not fall within the specifications for which the vehicle was proven to be compliant, unless they had completed some level of verification of the products effectiveness.

Note this has NOTHING to do with race engines which do not comply with emissions regulations.

I have yet to hear one person indicate that the specified lubricant works ineffectively in providing adeqaute engine life. I guarantee that it has been tested more thoroughly than any other lubricant for this specific application.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

If a Viper owner wants to be really concerned with the life of the cats then he should never run a blower, rather than worry about ZDDP in the oil. I've yet to hear of a factory cat failing up from oil additives, but cats getting melted from too much heat does happen. Talk to the tuners that do a lot of Paxtons.

If there is real data, not speculation, about cats failing from 1200ppm ZDDP, I'd like to see it, if it exists.

The rear 02's are there for a reason, to tell the computer that the cats are still functioning.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Tom I don't know how you stay so calm. I'd like to know your secret.

Greg, Patience and data always lead to understanding. Maybe not agreement, though...

sniper1, your Viper engine was designed in 1995. If you have your owners manual, look up what oil it says to use. For a 1996 model year car it will say to use API SH. API SH oils had 0.12% wt phosphorus. Your Viper's emissions system (and engine) will operate normally on 0.12% P oils. Today's diesel engine oils are not more than 0.12% P levels. The typical ash level (a crude measure of additive level) was about 1% (at least it was for Texaco Havoline.) Today's diesel engine oils ash level is about 1%. If you are logical about it, you can conclude two things: 1) you cannot buy the recommended oil your owners manual/warranty says you should use, and 2) the closest thing (if you trust my judgment) is a modern diesel engine oil. At least I put my money where my mouth is and my Viper uses 15W40 (sometimes 5W40) diesel oil. Your joke about signing a contract is obviously one-sided; but to humor you, I will offer to sell you Mobil 1 5W-40 diesel engine oil for $50/quart (shipping included) and I will then warranty your engine. I accept Paypal.

X-Metal, just so you know more details, the diesel engine oils are very applicable to motorcycle use because besides having a level of ZDDP and other additives for heavy duty use, they also do not have friction modifiers that might cause clutch slippage. Diesel engine oils have to meet some minor transmission fluid requirements, so they actually have wet clutch performance as a performance target. This lack of friction modifiers may at first seem like a shortcoming, and a few years ago it probably was. Today's oils are "fuel efficient" mostly because they are low viscosity. The engine test to measure fuel efficiency (Sequence VI) doesn't appreciate friction modifiers so few oils have them or much of them anyway.

Greg, even diesel engine oils are rated for gasoline API performance. The dealer or Dodge are not going to give you a hard time because you used an API SL diesel oil (that is also API CG-4, CH-4, CI-4, CJ-4, etc.) instead of an API SL gasoline engine oil.

GR8 ASP, your link to the auto industry is showing a little, so I am struggling to accurately read between the lines. I interpret your first paragraph to mean that everyone involved (OEMs, oils, additive companies) will play by the rules and recommend "the right thing." However, being stubborn myself, I would like to ask them whether using 0.12%P oils in a 1996 engine in the calendar year 2009 is "the wrong thing." It is as if the vehicle owner purchased a lifetime's worth of engine oil on the day of the vehicle purchase. (I know, a silly example.)

I can interpret your last sentence several ways. First, if you have not heard that the newest oil formulations are poor race oils or inadequate for engine builders, then a quick check on other forums related to performance hardware will show a tidal wave of flat tappet cam and lifter failures (don't know about buckets ) and even if the engine survives break-in, builders are replacing lifters and cams at a higher rate. Joe Gibbs Racing oils have profited by coming on the scene at just the right time. If you meant that the new oils provide adequate life in the new engines, I can't disagree because I don't know that. However, my counter argument would be that new Viper engines do not use simple API SM oils, they use the synthetic 0W-40 which is a 1.2% ash, 0.10% phosphorus formulation with diesel credentials (API CF, ACEA A3/B3, Opel Diesel, MB 229.5). So my simplistic "diesel" recommendation has some support. And finally, when you say "it" I don't know if you mean API SM, or Viper oil, or something else, and also "for this specific application" I don't know if you mean Viper engines, 2009 model year engines, or something else.

 

[plumcrazy]

If a Viper owner wants to be really concerned with the life of the cats then he should never run a blower, rather than worry about ZDDP in the oil. I've yet to hear of a factory cat failing up from oil additives, but cats getting melted from too much heat does happen.

my car does NOT have cats and NEVER will again !!!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Tom I was not specifically speaking of a 1996 engine but a generalized response. A recommendation as mentioned can be taken by the recipient to be directed toward any model year, and really any vehicle application. What is good for a Viper must be good for the family sedan and the company fleet. Hence my concern. As you know requirements are made more stringent at an increasing rate. What might have been okay for an LEV application could be critical for a PZEV. In general improvements have been downwardly compatable, esecially for conformance Durability being a more difficult element to predict may indeed be negatively impacted. As you may recall we have had two very significant changes in oil quality in the past 10 years that had widespread negative impact on engine durability (that I am aware of). One increased the propensity to harden elastomers such as valve stem seals in applications that had localized lubricant temperature in excess of 310F. The other a propensity to congeal (I will leave that one alone as it is currently under several industry-wide class action lawsuits). Oil industry testing does not catch everything as they select specific applications and test sites.

I can offer no advice to old engines. Pushrod flat tappet followers predate my entire career (egads!) I can state that production applications were more limited in material herzian stress capability than todays applications and were far inferior from a material coating/treatment perspective. So that they need something far different is not a surprise. However, I did not think this was a race engine circa the 1970's discussion.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

my car does NOT have cats and NEVER will again !!!

Then you can use up to 2800ppm ZDDP! (off road of course ).

 

[sniper1]

OK then, just what are your qualifications pertaining to the subject at hand?

When you become a member I might indulge you then.

 

[sniper1]

Just because what Tom is recommending is not endorsed by the *factory* does not mean he is wrong. He is right. 1200ppm of ZDDP is better than 800ppm when it comes to engine wear.

You do have a point about the warranty, and for that reason I suppose the only safe* answer is to run the oil the factory says to run.


*safe for the maintaining the warranty, not the engine.

If he is right, then I'm willing to take the time to read the documentation showing proof of all that has been discussed. (engne wear, longivity, performance, protection etc.) And yes the warranty is an important issue for newer Viper owners as well as engine life and performance... *safe for engines and warranty is the issue. Anybody can say anything but without the documented research to prove it, the suggestions and theories don't mean beans. Show me the documented proven research on Viper engines that specifically reccomends 15/40 oil and I will be glad to review it and entertain you more.

 

[sniper1]

since your doubting Tom, you might as well say that 90% of the field in racing Viper engines, as well as most other OEM's use Shell Rotella, oh, not to mention most motorcycle race teams.
the reponse from the chemist at Shell was EPA, and PC motivated, not a mechanically engineered answer. read between the lines.
Shell Rotella is used in more racing and street engines than most other oils combined.
yes, i have an engineering degree, i have worked for Yamaha, Kawasaki, and others so i can substantiate that Tom is 100% correct. i know personally that Rotella is used by more than a few BIG Viper racing teams.

WOW ! YOUR WRONG TOO !
Show me the documented research on Viper engines using 15/40 !
WOO HOO you have an engineering degree and you say you worked for Yamaha and Kawasaki and personally know Rotella users. That and $1 will get you a bus ride to work... SHOW ME PROOF

Greg, Patience and data always lead to understanding. Maybe not agreement, though...

sniper1, your Viper engine was designed in 1995. If you have your owners manual, look up what oil it says to use. For a 1996 model year car it will say to use API SH. API SH oils had 0.12% wt phosphorus. Your Viper's emissions system (and engine) will operate normally on 0.12% P oils. Today's diesel engine oils are not more than 0.12% P levels. The typical ash level (a crude measure of additive level) was about 1% (at least it was for Texaco Havoline.) Today's diesel engine oils ash level is about 1%. If you are logical about it, you can conclude two things: 1) you cannot buy the recommended oil your owners manual/warranty says you should use, and 2) the closest thing (if you trust my judgment) is a modern diesel engine oil. At least I put my money where my mouth is and my Viper uses 15W40 (sometimes 5W40) diesel oil. Your joke about signing a contract is obviously one-sided; but to humor you, I will offer to sell you Mobil 1 5W-40 diesel engine oil for $50/quart (shipping included) and I will then warranty your engine. I accept Paypal.

X-Metal, just so you know more details, the diesel engine oils are very applicable to motorcycle use because besides having a level of ZDDP and other additives for heavy duty use, they also do not have friction modifiers that might cause clutch slippage. Diesel engine oils have to meet some minor transmission fluid requirements, so they actually have wet clutch performance as a performance target. This lack of friction modifiers may at first seem like a shortcoming, and a few years ago it probably was. Today's oils are "fuel efficient" mostly because they are low viscosity. The engine test to measure fuel efficiency (Sequence VI) doesn't appreciate friction modifiers so few oils have them or much of them anyway.

Greg, even diesel engine oils are rated for gasoline API performance. The dealer or Dodge are not going to give you a hard time because you used an API SL diesel oil (that is also API CG-4, CH-4, CI-4, CJ-4, etc.) instead of an API SL gasoline engine oil.

GR8 ASP, your link to the auto industry is showing a little, so I am struggling to accurately read between the lines. I interpret your first paragraph to mean that everyone involved (OEMs, oils, additive companies) will play by the rules and recommend "the right thing." However, being stubborn myself, I would like to ask them whether using 0.12%P oils in a 1996 engine in the calendar year 2009 is "the wrong thing." It is as if the vehicle owner purchased a lifetime's worth of engine oil on the day of the vehicle purchase. (I know, a silly example.)

I can interpret your last sentence several ways. First, if you have not heard that the newest oil formulations are poor race oils or inadequate for engine builders, then a quick check on other forums related to performance hardware will show a tidal wave of flat tappet cam and lifter failures (don't know about buckets ) and even if the engine survives break-in, builders are replacing lifters and cams at a higher rate. Joe Gibbs Racing oils have profited by coming on the scene at just the right time. If you meant that the new oils provide adequate life in the new engines, I can't disagree because I don't know that. However, my counter argument would be that new Viper engines do not use simple API SM oils, they use the synthetic 0W-40 which is a 1.2% ash, 0.10% phosphorus formulation with diesel credentials (API CF, ACEA A3/B3, Opel Diesel, MB 229.5). So my simplistic "diesel" recommendation has some support. And finally, when you say "it" I don't know if you mean API SM, or Viper oil, or something else, and also "for this specific application" I don't know if you mean Viper engines, 2009 model year engines, or something else.

Same as METALHEADX above, show me the documented proof in VIPER engines and now MOTOCYCLE engines using 15/40 !

 

[HSSSSSS]

And to imagine this thread started with a relatively simple question.
Tom;
I have run a small fleet of trucks and I started using Esso XD3 0/40 synthetic since it first came out in 1996(it was only considered partially synthetic at first). I researched and found it had better characteristics than regular XD3 15/40. Since I run in the oilpatch(offroad, bushroad, and Super "B" work) my conditions are a lot more severe than highway haulers and I change my oil on hours rather than miles. I have yet to have an engine fail.
I was so impressed with this oil I started running it in every engine I had, right down to the lawn mower. Again with no problem.
When I saw "use only Mobil 1 0w40" on the wife's Crossfire I did. Now I use Mobil 1 0w40 in her Charger Daytona, my 2001 Viper, and our Ram SRT 10. The rest still use Esso XD3 0/40.
In all of this I did not see anything that said Mobil 1 0w40 was inferior to Rotella. I read one is probably as good as the next and it is personal preference. The Difference is probably cost. Is this right Tom?