Shifting into 3rd gear

[NI-KA]

I have a problem shifting into 3rd gear from time to time.

Car is a 1997 GTS with 26,000 miles on it.
Woodhouse engine and tranny mounts
B/M short shifter
stock knob/handle

Problem is on occasion when I shift into 3rd and then get back on the throttle the shifter pops out of the 3rd gear position into neutral.
This has happened at the track, on the street. At high speeds and at low cuising speeds. Hi rev and low rev situations.

Is it a dirver error/inexperience with the GEN II tranny? or transmission problem? or something else?

For awhile I just thought it was my lack of experience with the GEN II tranny. Previously had a GEN III 2006 no problems at all in this regard.

Now I am beginning to wonder. I do not like to force things, I just like to be smooth but it seems if I am going to compensate for this I am going to have to be very deliberate and pay extrordinary attention to this shift.

I am going to try a new shift knob. Probably the MGW first strike knob.

Hopefully someone has experience with this and can comment.

 

[ACR_VP]

Have yet to have mine ever pop out of any gear. '99 ACR 40,000 miles. Stock as far as the drive train goes. MGW shift nob but that's it.

Does it engage at all before popping out, or never seem to go into gear?

 

[Fatboy 18]

60,000 on my car and I have not had that happen? Does not sound right to me!

 

[NI-KA]

Going thru the normal shift pattern I believe it is engaged.

The problem is that I have no reason to believe that it isn't. It feels like a normal shift. Then bang.

Is it possible to have partial engagement?
Would a bad shift fork or syncrho cause a problem like this?

Could it be a premature shift before full clutch?

Thing is I do not ever have this problem in any other gear or have ever had it in any other car.

Have yet to have mine ever pop out of any gear. '99 ACR 40,000 miles. Stock as far as the drive train goes. MGW shift nob but that's it.

Does it engage at all before popping out, or never seem to go into gear?

 

[bluesrt]

internal problem, fix it now before it tears up more things in there

 

[Allan]

I have been into several manual transmissions for that problem, (never a T56 though) usually a worn fork/slider. Worn syncro would cause an "it doesn't want to go into gear" symptom, or a scratch into gear. -can coax a smooth gear change by rev matching. If you actually achive 3rd gear shift without a grind or scratch, apply torque and it "jumps out of gear", most likely cause is worn fork. (doesn't move the slider all the way engaged with the gear. sorry to ruin your day -Allan

 

[NI-KA]

Well, half the battle is knowing what the problem is. Now the other half will be paying for it.

From what you describe it is a worn fork.

Any one have any ideas what this might cost?

or the best plan for repair?

 

[Allan]

Concerning repair of your transmission, two ways to do it. Open it up and just replace whats messed up, or complete overhaul. (all new bearings, syncros, plus any marginally worn parts, plus the problem) At my shop, appx. 5-800 for the patch job, 1900-2200 for complete overhaul (I'm guessing-like I said, haven't been in a Viper T56 before) That should be close to what you can expect for repair without paying Viper tax. Probably the quickest/easiest aproach would be to find a good used tranny from a salvage car, or an exchange tranny from the dealer. Replace the clutch while your there, also the slave cylinder.

 

[NI-KA]

Yea it looks like there are a few used from salvage out there.

Well now I have to make up mind if I will drop the tranny myself. I guess it depends on how difficicult it would be to unbolt while laying under a car on Jack stands?

Hmmm...

 

[NI-KA]

Although I have had someone say just keep driving it until it is totally undrivable and then replace.

 

[AZTVR]

Well now I have to make up mind if I will drop the tranny myself. I guess it depends on how difficicult it would be to unbolt while laying under a car on Jack stands? .

I've done it, following quad-six-dave's write up. It definitely is doable on jack stands. Obviously, the job itself depends upon your experience level.

 

[Allan]

Your problem will remain specific to 3rd gear only, so no problem with driving the car like that. Just skip 3rd until you decide how you're gonna fix it -if you wait 'til it blows up, you'll be waiting a long time. It won't. ........Swapping the tranny yourself with the car on jackstands is fine, if you're confident in your ability to get it done. You will need a tranny jack though as that T56 isn't small.

 

[NI-KA]

I am assuming it isn't any more complicated than swapping a set of heads.

It is usually the unknowns and taking the time to ask questions that *****.

Once I start I like to just get it done but the first time takes the longest.

It would make a good winter project.

 

[NI-KA]

You wouldn't happen to have the link handy would you?

I've done it, following quad-six-dave's write up. It definitely is doable on jack stands. Obviously, the job itself depends upon your experience level.

 

[DrumrBoy]

I would second the idea that its worn/bent forks. Worn happens over time, if you're "authoritative" with the 2-3 shift at the strip, this too can bend 'em enough that they wont properly engage.

 

[uvbnbit]

I had similar problem a few yrs back. clunky 2-3 shift when cold and it did on occasion pop out of 3 in to neutral. I had some worn o-filter/rings (caused by synth fluid) and had it rebuilt and upgraded forks. I'm thinking total repair/parts was $650. not including uninstall/install. 1Tony1 did that.

 

[AZTVR]

You wouldn't happen to have the link handy would you?

Here it is, and kudos to dave6666 for the excellent, detailed write up. ( It also exists on the VA forum) http://thevipergarage.com/index.php/topic,465.0.html

These kinds of DIY articles on the interweb make it possible for guys like me to feel comfortable diving in to do a job like this. It isn't hard; but, to have someone give you all the tips ahead of time sure does reduce the frustration possibilities.