so if the SRT-10 is a better car...

[AlbertFattal]

Please do this to the new coupe:

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[Snakester]

I don't see the (long-standing member's) contributions to this thread as being Viper bashing.

I personally think that the SRT-10 Viper is great!

But I think that DC needs to carefully evaluate what they have done right, and what areas need improvement to maintain the Viper's good image and value.

Plus they need to position the Viper well for the future, which does take into account the ever improving competition.

Currently, the SRT-10 Viper is still the best performing convertible sold in the U.S. at any price!
And that's very impressive. But they clearly need to move the Viper up-market in performance and value to keep that advantage.

 

[Joseph Houss]

Great Comments! And I KNOW Dodge is listening!

In my humble opinion:

The Viper Nation is comprised of a demographic which I have determined as "intelligent gearheads".

We have "arrived" at our position in life by hard work, and extreme focus in everything we do. That's one of the reasons we are so passionate about our brands, friends, upgrades, etc.

When purchasing ANY product, we analyze it to death. In theory, sites like Pricegrabber.com are our heros, as they allow us not only to analyze each product to its' specifications, but then find the lowest price imaginable, and of course, even factor in ratings of retailers and their customer service. Whey do I mention this? Because our decision to purchase our Vipers was based on the absolute "no brainer" advantage to this supercar. Our formula is based on intellectual statistics, NOT a "designer crest", prancing horse, or bull. Statistics that are formulated for "bang for the buck" in supercar territory. Price/performance. We enjoyed (and still do) explaining to our friends who own the "designer" competition, how far superior our Vipers are, PLUS at a price that would embarrass their logic for purchasing their ahem.. supercar.

It was a no brainer back in the 90's (after the initial '92-'93 gouging was over). It was a no brainer into the early 2000's as well. But now, as much as we will ALL agree that the SRT-10, RIGHT NOW, is still within our formula (and as was mentioned... still the ONLY supercar performing convertible under $150,000!... surely a "no brainer"), the competition will be kicking it up 10 notches REAL soon!

What to do?

There's only one solution! HORSEPOWER! and GOBS OF IT!

There's no doubt in my mind that if our SRT-10's came from the factory with one of our friendly vendor's supercharger...and was pushing 700HP, at a price that just reflected the modest wholesale hardware expense of the unit... that no one would care that the car looked a little less extreme than the Gen2 styling! (and of course, make the retrofit available to all previously sold SRT-10's)

Because,

They'd be too busy, as intellectual gearheads, explaining to their "designer supercar" friends how inferior their supercars are to OUR AWESOME HISSSSSSING SNAKES! Not that we can't do that now... but this will just make our price/performance ratio SO outstanding that our Vipers will once again become a "no brainer"

By the way (changing the subject just a bit), AUTOWEEK just had an editorial on the 430 Modena.... their soon to be released "upgrade" to their best selling model (read: $180K!). Rated at about 470 HP, my guess it will come close to our SRT-10's in performance .... BUT LOOK AT THE PRICE DIFFERENTIAL! ... oh, and if you want it as a convertible .... figure on adding another $40K to that number! Making our current SRT-10's a "no brainer" even in tomorrow's standards!

 

[VIPER D]

I love any car that you can just slap on a s/c to a stock motor and 700rwhp.


vd..

 

[BadVenm]

Albert,

Great work! But wouldn't just it be easier to just say, DODGE BUILD THE GTS-R! We will all buy one.

DODGE, the base design of the SRT is a great platform. The GTR-R is awe inspiring. Flare out and exaggerate the lines, the fenders, and widen the car, if the SRT looked just like the GTS-R but a convertible version, you couldn't make enough of them.

Is there anyone, a single person on this site that does NOT like the GTS-R? I sure haven't ran into one of them if there are any.


Our National Pres. makes some good points. One of which, where he mentions the designer supercars, really drives home one of my comments on page two.

Why would someone in their right mind plop down $150K or more for a car with inferior performance to our Vipers? Very simple, LOOKS and EXCLUSIVITY, both of which, as Chris pointed out, are the weakest points of the SRT. IMO, that is the very same reason a lot of Gen 1 and Gen 2 owners have not moved up to the superior HP of the Gen 3.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE LOOKS! NOT ALWAYS WHAT'S UNDER THE HOOD. There are so many Gen 1 and 2 owners that could just write a check for the more powerful Gen 3 but they haven't, because in their mind the looks and the commonality are holding them back. Which for the record, a Gen 3 is in the running of those cars under review for my next purchase.

Will I end up buying the newest, hottest, 500 HP designer supercar, at twice the price of the SRT, I'm not sure. IF I buy the designer supercar it will be for two reasons only, because the LOOKS of the car and the EXCLUSIVITY of the car.

But I know one thing for sure, I will keep my RT-10 because of it's looks and exclusivity. Gen 1'and 2's are what I call an American built exotic, or, if you will, an American built designer supercar.

But if I buy the SRT, it will be because there is one already S/C'd that I can drive the wheels off of and never worry about those $5,000.00 service bills for the 1,000 mile and 5,000 mile check ups of the other car.

But if my wife has any say in the matter, she will beat me into submission and make me spend the money on an addition to our home, or use it as a down payment on a vacation home. So everyone SHHHHHH! Don't tell her anything, so I get to buy another car!

 

[luc]

Badvenm:

you're right on the money,I could have bought a SRT-10 through the certificate program (as a matter of fact i ordered one hoping that the style will grow on me, when "my" car came in, i just couldn't force myself to like it) so money was not the issue.

I believe that DC has some of the best designers in the business and could have styled the STR-10 as well,if not better than the GenI or II.

They made a business decision to style it the way they did to go after a diferent market than the previous models to obviously increase sales by appealing to a broader range of customers.
By doing so,they,not only lost a lot of the "Viperness" of the car,but also ended up in a market segment with a lot more competition.

luc 00GTS

 

[jrkermode]

Some have suggested this thread is SRT bashing. I disagree. This discussion emerges over and over again on the forum because it is nothing less than the very definition of the brand. What makes a Viper a Viper.

I suspect most of the "bashers" would agree that the SRT is more "Viper" than a Vette. Judged against the competition, the SRT is an awesome car. Judging the SRT against its siblings is more complicated.

The RT is the benchmark against which Vipers are measured, a raw elemental machine, devoid of amenities.

The GTS strayed a little bit, what with air conditioning of all things, but brought with it enough additional performance, and outrageous enough looks to mostly appease the Viper faithful.

The SRT brought yet another dose of performance, even more amenities, but, somehow emerged from CAAP wearing the Corvette's new clothes.

I acknowledge that growing the brand is a balancing act. And, had the look been outrageous enough we could probably suffer the additional amenities. But, refinement AND dowdy looks is asking too much.

Build the Comp Coupe.

 

[vipersrt10]

i thought the GTS looked better but went with SRT because of its performance and upgraded interior , etc, compared to the old one.
when a coupe comes out i am getting one without question

 

[dirk989]

Very few of us who own the SRT-10 are not impressed with the looks. Yes, it is different from Gen I and Gen II. I said DIFFERENT not INFERIOR or SUPERIOR.

Personally, I think the look of the SRT-10 is more exotic than the previous cars. I prefer the look. I can prefer the look without insulting the Gen I and II's. I prefer it so I bought one.

The people on here who are complaining about the look of the Gen III and claiming that they 'missed the mark' or that it 'lacks soul' or whatever, are not Gen III owners. The biggest s__t stirrer is a kid from Canada who claims to be able to 'drive any car (he) wants to' but has never sat in one. Kid doesn't even have a job yet, but has made 4,000+ posts. I'm sure his opinion is invaluable.

If I got on the Gen I or II forum and said that Dodge really screwed up with those cars. That they missed the mark. That they could have created a legend, but produced an inferior kit-car with a small following and that the earlier cars are not respected by anyone other than the few who got stuck with them, then you can imagine the stir that would cause. I could not claim with a straight face that I was making constructive criticism because I wanted Dodge to improve the car. That would be complete crap.


For the record I love the Gen I and II cars. I just think the Gen III is far superior for my tastes.

This is the SRT-10 forum. You can imagine that there are SRT-10 owners here. You can imagine that upon hearing the "constructive" comments from several non-owners, the owners who admire this car are less than thrilled.

If you think Dodge missed the mark or messed up the styling then fine. Don't buy one. (Or in Craig's case, don't hang a poster of one on your wall) But, remember that the style DOES wow a lot of people. A lot of people do think the car is raw and completely 'viperish'. It takes my breath away in a way that earlier Vipers didn't.

As for "slow" sales now, haven't they sold more Gen III's per year than Gen I or II?? I don't know, I'm seriously asking.

Lack of advertising or PR, overproduction, and the time of year (true convertibles ALL suffer seasonal changes) are bigger barriers to sales than anything else. If Dodge marketed this thing as effectively as Ford and the GT then the demand would be insane. Dodge is completely missing the boat on that.

BadVenm recognized the main problem when he said,

"I think Chris is on to something. Think about how Harley Davidson controlled production and for years there were waiting lists and over sticker prices were paid. Then HD turned up production and those days of waiting and over sticker prices are over. Now HD's are stacked up on show room floor's. Sounds like Dodge was and is following suit of HD. "

I appreciate that and some other really good points, but I can't understand how a GenI or II owner or a non-owner, or a troll, thinks that they should be on the Gen III forum complaining about the Gen III.


Dirk

 

[RonnieSRT10]

How about a simple answer for this controversy...TO EACH HIS OR HER OWN! I think it is great that we ALL live in a country where we have the freedom to earn a living doing what we choose, and to drive any car we choose. I drive an SRT-10 because it is what I choose to drive. And my choice is not based upon sales figures, other peoples opinions, but ONLY on the fact that what is important in a car for ME is offered in the SRT-10. If others choose to drive a Gen I, a Gen II, a Vette, a Lambo, a Honda Civic, on a 55 Chevy Belair, that is THEIR choice, and it is NOT MY BUSINESS OR MY CONCERN! And, whether or not I care for the kind of vehicle others drive, I respect their right to drive it and without judgement or criticism!!!

 

[SilverSnake]

Dirk, VERY well put.


Robert

 

[Janni]

Well, I OWN ONE. I've owned SEVERAL Vipers.

There is still nothing as amazing as seeing a blue and white GTS or a red RT coming at you or staring at its butt end. It generates an emotional response. It's ****.

I justified having the 2003 by talking about it's wonderful performance. Performance I can only usually appreciate on a race track or autocrossing. I autocrossed it twice - and yes - had a HUGE smile. I CAN'T track the darn thing without adding a roll bar and a Comp Coupe oil pan. Not too bad, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable without a lid. So, since the looks don't generate the same basic response, I don't get to enjoy it as much as the GTS. It's folds and creases don't even generate the same response when I wash it as the **** lines of the GTS.

So, while I agree it's technically more competent in every way, and some of the performance numbers are world class - I can't justify $70 large for a car that doesn't stir my soul like a car that I can pick up for $40K.

That being said - we're selling the 2003 and Henry's race car to get a Comp Coupe. THAT car moves me.

 

[DT04R]

Janni -

Quick side-bar:

I'm looking at 03's, just haven't had time with the current work load to get my ducks-in-a-row and sell the Z06 (it has a bunch of mods so need to find the "right" buyer or part it out, both a little time consuming).

However, I'll be on deck soon enough - I'm pretty set on a Silver 03', I'm down in North/East Florida (so reasonably close to you). Maybe we'll talk when I get my head above water and can get my car situation squared away.

(Edit: I _believe_ your SRT is silver, if not, pardon the error )

DT

 

[Janni]

DT -
Anytime - it's still for sale and I've reduced the price some - want to get things moving so Henry can get his new car.... Car is sitting in climate controlled basement, clean inside and out, no more miles will be put on it - it's waiting for a new home.

Take care and good luck,
Janni

 

[SilverSnake]

Janni , Keep the gts and buy a 40k mustang have fun.

Robert

 

[RavenFan_94]

Troll.. that's a good one, check my post count.

Craig, just because you post a lot doesn't mean you add $.02 worth of value to this baord. And yes, you are a troll.

 

[dirk989]

Janni - there may be nothing sexier than a GTS or RT ....to you.

The Gen III may not stir YOUR soul like the Gen I or II.

Different people have different likes and dislikes. It is fair to say that most who own a Gen III prefer it. I do.

Nothing is sexier than an SRT-10....to me and nearly all of the owners of this great car.

Then Gen I and Gen II does not stir MY soul or nearly all of the owners of the SRT-10.

You don't like the looks of your car and are turned on by the older style. That's you. That's not everybody.

And not everyone likes the comp coupe. Talk about an ugly, soulless duck.....

Dirk

 

[BadVenm]

I appreciate that and some other really good points, but I can't understand how a GenI or II owner or a non-owner, or a troll, thinks that they should be on the Gen III forum complaining about the Gen III.
Dirk

Dirk,

Your above comment is a very good point. I know sometimes I don't think about the fact that I'm a non owner of a Gen 3 car, and how my opinion doesn't matter to an owner, or how they may take, or react to my opinion.

This whole topic is subjective at best. It's really just personal opinion.

I know the reason that I make comments here, in the SRT forum, is in hopes that DC is in fact reading these posts as we are told they do. And I do that hoping if I voice my opinion maybe what I would want in a Gen 3 car might actually end up on one and it will move me to buy one. (Selfish, yes I know!)

But really it's no more than that, it's no less than that.

However, I do believe there are some people that want to do nothing more than to *** in some ones Wheaties and watch their face when they take a bite. And that is not necessary and is uncalled for.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Janni - there may be nothing sexier than a GTS or RT ....to you.

The Gen III may not stir YOUR soul like the Gen I or II.

Different people have different likes and dislikes. It is fair to say that most who own a Gen III prefer it. I do.

Nothing is sexier than an SRT-10....to me and nearly all of the owners of this great car.

Then Gen I and Gen II does not stir MY soul or nearly all of the owners of the SRT-10.

You don't like the looks of your car and are turned on by the older style. That's you. That's not everybody.

And not everyone likes the comp coupe. Talk about an ugly, soulless duck.....

Dirk

I cant agree with this more. In my HONEST opinion, I think that the SRT-10 is a better LOOKING car. I will admit I didnt think this at first- Jealousy, denial...dont know for sure. There are some quirky angles to the SRT, as there are with the Gen-1 & 2 cars- but there are some angles on the SRT that are JUST PLAIN MEAN, and do not exist on the Gen-2 cars.

However, with that said, I do have to say, the lighter the color on the SRT-10, the better it looks in my opinion. I was never a fan of SRT's in Red like I was Gen-2's in Red, but when I saw WHITE, it was all over. It really does give the car a different look for some reason. Yellow and Silver are also light enough to bring out this aspect of the SRT.

Just one guys opinion...

 

[dirk989]

BadVenm - Your comments have all been enlightened. You haven't said, "Hey guys your cars are ugly and they ****." That isn't the most sensitive attitude, especially here at the home for those of us lucky enough to own a Gen III. You have said that personally you preferred something else. Big difference.

Some of the others have entered our cozy little home here and peed on the rug. If I went to the GTS forum and said similar things then I would receive death threats. If I went to the Schwinn or BigWheel forum then I could probably tick Carless Craig the Jobless Troll off as well. I wouldn't do that.

And I agree with Final GTS, the SRT-10 is **** and visceral. The lines and angles do not appear in photos, but in real life and in person I believe the car looks much better than other Viper styles. Unlike earlier posts bashing the Gen III, I don't say "I like it better because the older Vipers are ugly and they ****." I make my point by speaking solely about the attributes of the SRT-10.

Have a good weekend. I'm off to drive my 04 in this miserable, gloomy, rainy, Indiana weather - smiling the entire time.

Dirk

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Come on Craig, you don't want to be called a "jobless troll." Tell 'em who you work for. Oops, that might not work,
hehe.

 

[kaval]

I agree with Ronnie.

Ive always loved the viper. I could have owned one years ago. It wasn't until

I saw an 04 in person earlier this year at the auto show that I absolutely had

to have one. The SRT made me pull the trigger.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Come on Craig, you don't want to be called a "jobless troll." Tell 'em who you work for. Oops, that might not work,
hehe.

lol I don't feel the need to prove anything, for 21 I feel pretty damn accomplished thus far... 1 year of school left and hopefully I can make this position a permanant one.

what the newb fails to understand is that that I'm one of the most passionate people about this car. I feel bad for him that he is so insecure about his purchase that he feels the need to resort to bringing something up like my country of residence as some sort of half-assed insult. Dude, just deal with my opinion about the car. This thread was not meant to bash the SRT it was to bring some FACTS that the car is not selling up for discussion. I think I have been successful in creating a worthwhile discussion here, what other threads in this section have spawned such action?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Craig, you are still missing the point (completely). You say that you are one of the most passionate people about this car. Right. I have never read positive things from you about the SRT. Only negatives. I am passionate about all 3 generations of Vipers. Are any of them perfect. No. Does that mean I should throw every detail that I do not like in the face of owners. No again. It adds no value but creates significant ire.

I do not like Hondas. Does that give me a right to go to the Honda site and plaster it with negative posts. No. If I did they would ban me from posting. Same for the Toyota forum, Ferrari, etc. I believe the same should be true here as well. Any individual who only adds negative posts here should be restricted from posting here. I wish it were possible to prevent posts in certain forums (or maybe even viewing them) for those who deserve restriction based on their actions. And you Craig would be near the top of my list for that restriction.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

LOL stop being so sensitive.

What can I say? I am a critcal person towards things that do not appeal to me but wished they did. I have said time and time again that the SRT is a hell of a car from a performance perspective. The brakes alone on this car deserve some sort of award. Just today I was reading in road & track how they were praising the new 997 Porsche for having a 60-0 stopping distance of 109 feet which in their words was "enzo rivaling" to which I thought "the SRT does it in 97 feet, big whoop. The one thing the rags always complained about on the viper was it's braking, now they get it and every article I read on the car fails to mention this amazing system.

The aspect of the Viper that is severly lacking is the styling. Is it ugly, not really. Do I still look at the car when I see one on the road? Absolutely. Would I keep looking if a GTS drove by, no way. Not only did Dodge completely kill one of the best aspects of the car they completely lost touch with what the car is all about. Raw kick your ass driving excitement. The car should scare you, hell the car should have a fixed roof so you can run down the 1/4 without having to install a cage in it or take it to the road track. Never before did we see any sort of special edition car unless it truly acheived something worth celebrating. The commemorative 100 GT2 cars are something worthwhile, the final edition cars are worthwile (although I think they should have done 50 GTS's and 50 RT/10's, 360 cars is too many) and for the 3rd gen what did they do? Mamba editions. What was the motivation behind doing these cars? To celebrate lacklustre sales? The mamba editions were created simply to move cars out the door, chevrolet is great at doing this with the vette. I fear an automatic is to come.

So as you can see my issue with the SRT isn't so much its styling (that's more of a point to rile you guys up) as it is with what DC has turned this car into, in short it's generic with no soul. It hasn't been raced, the only derivative that has seen the track is a car you can't put on the street or buy unless you are lucky enough to be picked to spend 130 large on and get one hell of a factory supported car. I do not think that this car would be suffering at all if Dodge would have brought both a coupe and convertible out at the same time and let the people with the $$ do the talking. That hack job they showed at VOI created more buzz than the original SRT did in full production trim. What does that say???

Hopefully some of this $$ from all the 300/magnum sales will go back to funding a better factory backed racing effort. It would be awesome to see the Viper GTS-R/ GT-40 / C6-R / Saleen S7R / Murcialago GTR go at it in ALMS and FIA racing.

And now you know the rest of the story...

 

[YouWish]

Craig 201 mph:I understand some of your points and agree mostly with what you have to say but since you don't even own a Viper your just asking for trouble bashing the SRT-10. With that being said I have made a conscious effort to no longer say anything negative about the SRT-10(the ol'if you don't have something nice to say don't say it at all)especially on this forum that is just plain rude. Since my GTS is a fixed roof coupe I will buy a SRT-10 down the road they continue(SRT-10's)to grow on me more and more everyday.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

I'll take my chances with that one, I'm opinionated and as long as I have some knowledge on a subjest I'll speak my mind on it. No "I" do not have a viper, however I do feel entitled to speak on it as I do have a tad bit of experience with these cars...

 

[VIPER D]

Janni - there may be nothing sexier than a GTS or RT ....to you.

The Gen III may not stir YOUR soul like the Gen I or II.

Different people have different likes and dislikes. It is fair to say that most who own a Gen III prefer it. I do.

Nothing is sexier than an SRT-10....to me and nearly all of the owners of this great car.

Then Gen I and Gen II does not stir MY soul or nearly all of the owners of the SRT-10.

You don't like the looks of your car and are turned on by the older style. That's you. That's not everybody.

And not everyone likes the comp coupe. Talk about an ugly, soulless duck.....

Dirk

I cant agree with this more. In my HONEST opinion, I think that the SRT-10 is a better LOOKING car. I will admit I didnt think this at first- Jealousy, denial...dont know for sure. There are some quirky angles to the SRT, as there are with the Gen-1 & 2 cars- but there are some angles on the SRT that are JUST PLAIN MEAN, and do not exist on the Gen-2 cars.

However, with that said, I do have to say, the lighter the color on the SRT-10, the better it looks in my opinion. I was never a fan of SRT's in Red like I was Gen-2's in Red, but when I saw WHITE, it was all over. It really does give the car a different look for some reason. Yellow and Silver are also light enough to bring out this aspect of the SRT.

Just one guys opinion...

Dan you took the words out of my mouth!!!!

vd..

 

[Fast Freddy]

i think that people who do not own a viper should not be allowed to join the viperclub of america. just like i think people who do not own a vette should not be allowed to join the corvette club, etc, etc, etc. get my point! on that other viper site (**********), half the people on that site don't even own vipers and most of the ones that do are such jerks and ego maniacs that they give the viper a real black eye. unfortunately people like this are why the viper gets stereotyped as the car for people with short mans complex, etc.

oh yea, just for the record as far as viper 'coupes' are concerned i like the gen 2's looks better than gen 3's. concerning '*******' vipers i like the looks of the gen 3 better than the gen 1 and 2. so go figure?

 

[KWIK96]

I love em all
but I love my 96 RT best!

On a side note, Craig reminds me of the guy who knows 100 ways to make love, but doesn't know any women