Sway Bars for 2008

vincy

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In the Corvette world many drivers put in stiffer sway bars. I don't see this on this Viper forum. Do you guys, and girls, add stiffer sway bars? What about on the 2008? If so, where do you get them? I found one on PartsRack but I don't know if that one is a big improvement. Thanks
 

Viper X

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This is a good question.

I think I read somewhere that the 2008 would have a stiffer front sway bar than the previous Gen III cars while the rear would remain the same.

Not sure how stiff - would like to know if anyone knows.

Also, kinda wondering what sway bars are on the new ACR.

To help answer your question, comp coupe sway bars will fit on our Gen III street cars. I tried them and took them off as my SRTC is not a track car. They are very stiff (and not cheap), so make sure you want to firm up your ride a bunch before you go this route.

You can buy adjustable comp coupe sway bars. I have not run these but would guess that they are pretty stiff on the lowest setting and then just get stiffer.

You can also buy end links for your sway bars to take the pre-load out of them. This is mentioned in the most recent VCA magazine article on the new ACR. This does seem to help the cars handle better if you track it.

Dan
 
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vincy

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This is a good question.

I think I read somewhere that the 2008 would have a stiffer front sway bar than the previous Gen III cars while the rear would remain the same.

Not sure how stiff - would like to know if anyone knows.

Also, kinda wondering what sway bars are on the new ACR.

To help answer your question, comp coupe sway bars will fit on our Gen III street cars. I tried them and took them off as my SRTC is not a track car. They are very stiff (and not cheap), so make sure you want to firm up your ride a bunch before you go this route.

You can buy adjustable comp coupe sway bars. I have not run these but would guess that they are pretty stiff on the lowest setting and then just get stiffer.

You can also buy end links for your sway bars to take the pre-load out of them. This is mentioned in the most recent VCA magazine article on the new ACR. This does seem to help the cars handle better if you track it.

Dan

Dan, I had a very experienced racer drive my car, he thought it needed a stiffer sway bar for the front. I had the impression something could be better, but I don't have the experience base to know for sure. It seems to me the car feels more planted on turn in when driven hard, but doesn't feel as planted when driven less hard.

What does it mean to take out pre load? That sounds to me like it would weaken the effective sway resistance. Thanks
 

Paul Hawker

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Vipers, like most production high performance sports cars have a certain amount of push (or under- steer) built in. This helps keep the rear end from spinning out during aggressive handling. The thought that it is safer to push off the road going forward while scrubbing off some speed than your rear end coming around.

This can be adjusted with sway bars or tire size and pressure.

For track use it is easier and very effective to just go up a size in front tire. (315)
 
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vincy

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Vipers, like most production high performance sports cars have a certain amount of push (or under- steer) built in. This helps keep the rear end from spinning out during aggressive handling. The thought that it is safer to push off the road going forward while scrubbing off some speed than your rear end coming around.

This can be adjusted with sway bars or tire size and pressure.

For track use it is easier and very effective to just go up a size in front tire. (315)

Paul, thanks. How do you adjust this with pressure? Maybe you can refer me to a book or web site on the principles of suspension adjustment? I can see my knowledge is limited. Thanks.
 

Viper X

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Vincy,

The preload on the sway bars (as I understand it) is used to help offset the "crown" on most of the roads that we normally drive on the street, i.e. crowned roads for water drainage. Race tracks don't normally have a "crown" to them, so you don't need this preload on the track.

If you remove the preload with adjustable sway bar end links, you can make the car more neutral, i.e. so that it will turn in well and feel about the same in both directions. It will not weaken sway resistance, it will, all else being the same, help equalize it.

As for the experienced driver, was he an experienced Viper driver? Perhaps you know this, but the ability to drive other cars fast doesn't always translate well to driving our cars fast, hence Viper Days. I've had some pretty fast drivers of "other cars" get into my Viper to "instruct me" and not do very well (scare themselves and me). I'm over that now and would not do it again - allow a non-Viper owner / driver to drive my car at the track.

The 2008 Viper is pretty well set up from the factory. Before I'd switch sway bars, I'd get a proper track alignment if you haven't done so already. I watched Sam Hubinette turn in 1:31's at one of our local tracks (Willow Springs) in a stock 08 coupe on street tires. I'm sure he could have gone 1:28 or 1:29 with a little practice and that's very, very fast for a street car on street tires with a good track alignment.

You don't mention the condition of your tires either. You may not have had the correct air pressure in them as Paul stated.

Lots to sort out.

Have fun,

Dan
 

rcl4668

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Vincy --

See the following link to get an idea of how to use pressures and other factors to reduce understeer:

Tire Tech Information - Air Pressure for Competition Tires

I attended an autocross school with my 08 recently and started with higher cold pressures front than rear (for example, starting at 36 or 34 psi cold front and 30 to 32 psi cold rear). By increasing the front pressures a bit you can dial out some understeer.

One thought would be to start out 34 psi cold front and 30 psi cold rear for HPDE events and then bring an air tank and adjust your hot pressures accordingly.

Hope this helps.

/Rich
 

j-rho

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Vincy,

The preload on the sway bars (as I understand it) is used to help offset the "crown" on most of the roads that we normally drive on the street, i.e. crowned roads for water drainage. Race tracks don't normally have a "crown" to them, so you don't need this preload on the track.

If you remove the preload with adjustable sway bar end links, you can make the car more neutral, i.e. so that it will turn in well and feel about the same in both directions. It will not weaken sway resistance, it will, all else being the same, help equalize it.
Hey Dan,
The asymmetry you speak of from the factor is done via a left to right imbalance in the front suspension's caster settings - usually a little more positive caster in the right side.

Swaybar preload is something to be completely avoided in anything but (maybe) a circle track car. It leads to an asymmetry in handling balance (understeer/oversteer) when turning left vs. right. One would hope that the car would have no/minimal swaybar preload when stock, but the only way to be sure would be to get adjustable endlinks and set it to zero, optimally with the car in the condition (fuel and passenger load) it'll be in when you care about it (aka race trim, if you race).

I don't know how much larger I'd go with the front bar on a stock car, especially if you're sticking with the stock tire sizes and compound. They push pretty bad stock, even with a good alignment. In general, stiffening the front sway bar will tend to make a car understeer more, so you would at least want to go with a matched front/rear pair. Also in general, I wouldn't recommned someone perform any handling-altering modifications to their car (with the exception of an alignment, which will extend tire life) until they have enough experience under their belt to have a sense for what they'd like to change about the way their car handles. The Viper, even the regular one, is already much closer to a full-on racecar than most cars will ever be even in a highly modified state.

I think a lot of the Vette guys look to swaybars because of how much of a (relative) pain it is to change spring rates on the Vette because of the transverse leaf springs. The Viper uses conventional coilovers at all 4 corners, making spring rate changes easy, and swaybar changes less often used for tuning.

I hand-built a custom front swaybar for my car for not too much $ using components sourced mostly from Speedway Engineering. I run Hoosier A6 tires 315 or 335-18 up front, and 345-19 rear though; the large addition of front grip is offset by the stiffer front bar, which, simply put "takes some of it away".
 
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vincy

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Vincy --

See the following link to get an idea of how to use pressures and other factors to reduce understeer:

Tire Tech Information - Air Pressure for Competition Tires

I attended an autocross school with my 08 recently and started with higher cold pressures front than rear (for example, starting at 36 or 34 psi cold front and 30 to 32 psi cold rear). By increasing the front pressures a bit you can dial out some understeer.

One thought would be to start out 34 psi cold front and 30 psi cold rear for HPDE events and then bring an air tank and adjust your hot pressures accordingly.

Hope this helps.

/Rich

Rich, can you check the link? It doesn't work for me. Thanks
 

rcl4668

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Rich, can you check the link? It doesn't work for me. Thanks

Vincy --

I just clicked the link and it worked for me. If it still does not work for you go to the Tire Tack website and find the link for "Tire Tech" articles. The click the article entitled "Air Pressure for Competition Tires."

/Rich
 

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