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  1. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Viper Owner

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    The site claims it was a 2008 model; if it was 2010 it doesn't change the fact that it destroyed a $500K "super car" in the LFA that was equipped with a package specifically designed to enhance its performance around that particular track.

    Price, HP and stuff like that are really just red herrings. SRT just failed miserably on the advertising front. They did not do everything they could to make people aware of the new Viper and stir up an interest in it.

    I don't know where you're getting this stuff...but again you are complaining about the price and performance - both of which have a very favorable ratio in the Viper. You are getting a car that outperforms $500K+ imports and looks better doing it, for as little as $100K.

    Dodge dealers giving anecdotal feedback as to why they think it's not selling holds little water. They have no experience attracting or catering to high-end buyers so they make silly excuses to rationalize the situation. Has it occurred to these dealers that someone buying a $100K+ vehicle wants it the way they want it and not the way the dealer spec'd it out? I would not have been interested in buying a viper off the lot because it has to be equipped the way I want it.

    I don't get that vibe. If SRT gets their act together in terms of marketing and customer experience (i.e. isolating SRT dealers from Dodge dealers), the Viper and other SRT vehicles will succeed.
     
  2. georgethedog

    georgethedog Viper Owner

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    There's an idea. Isolating SRT dealers from Dodge. It is a worthy idea and may work in a very large city. That is the only way the SRT brand advances. How many Lexus, Infiniti, and/or Acura dealers share the same building with Toyota, Nissan, or Honda? Not any that I am aware of. It's all about marketing correctly, and that is something Chrysler has never really done as well as other brands.

    SRT only dealers in large cities... I think this step is an important one for the growth of the brand. The marketing potential of this kind of strategy would be a unique opportunity for Chrysler. A whole dealership experience centered around performance. A "real car guy" experience. A place guys would want to hang out... Include an SRT sports bar (no test drives after drinking...LOL) Bring people in! Re-think the whole dealership experience.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  3. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    IMHO they should have really emulated McLaren. They don't have a massive dealer network, but they have been managing very well.
     
  4. DMan

    DMan Viper Owner

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    And Ford has pulled it off, albeit less extreme in the range of vehicles. But when we were planning on $70,000 mustangs many of us thought no way Ford could sell them. Well, they did and most with ADMs, hec I've bought 2 SVT mustangs north of $65,000 - and I was one thinking they couldn't do it a few yrs ago. When you can buy a stang for your son at $23k and the upscale is over $70k, seems like a tough reach for dealers, but why did it work ...
     
  5. georgethedog

    georgethedog Viper Owner

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    Because it is not over $100K.

    I know someone out there is going to chime in that Ford did it with the GT. Yes, but that was limited production on a car that was quite a legend and then they stopped making them seemed as quick as they started. There was an initial demand that was filled.
     
  6. Chrissss

    Chrissss Viper Owner

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    "I don't know where you're getting this stuff...but again you are complaining about the price and performance - both of which have a very favorable ratio in the Viper. You are getting a car that outperforms $500K+ imports and looks better doing it, for as little as $100K."

    "Dodge dealers giving anecdotal feedback as to why they think it's not selling holds little water. They have no experience attracting or catering to high-end buyers so they make silly excuses to rationalize the situation. Has it occurred to these dealers that someone buying a $100K+ vehicle wants it the way they want it and not the way the dealer spec'd it out? I would not have been interested in buying a viper off the lot because it has to be equipped the way I want it".

    Actually I don't know where you are getting this stuff. The price vs performance of the Viper is hardly favorable. Its true the dealers carrying the Viper are not used to high end buyers because the buyers don't consider the Viper a high end car but has a high end price. The feedback they receive is from the potential buyers.
     
  7. VENOM V

    VENOM V Enthusiast

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    Vipers rule the road courses genius. Price vs performance is very favorable. Duh, this back and forth is getting old with people that just don't get it. Please tell me you don't own a Viper and are just a troll looking for kicks.
     
  8. Chrissss

    Chrissss Viper Owner

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    LOL...Had to laugh at that one. Yes I own a Viper and two other high performance cars. Sorry if it was offensive to you. The Viper as much as I like it Im sorry to say could be in trouble as I agree with the original post. I think maybe youre the one who doesn't quite get it....genius.
     
  9. HobokenViper

    HobokenViper Viper Owner

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    Funny, I don't know a single Viper owner that doesn't consider their car to be a high end car (except maybe for you?), because IT IS a high end car. And non-Viper owners who comment on the car always tend to think its worth a good amount more than it is. The only argument that you might have had otherwise in the past was that the finishes on the interior weren't as nice or as high end as on some other higher priced exotics with similar levels of performance, but now that's largely been solved in the Gen V.

    As for the bang for the buck on performance, I don't think it's even worth arguing over this one because any car guy with any working knowledge of racing and of the various high performance cars and exotics out there know that the Viper is king in the right skilled hands, and can beat or hang with many Supercars costing twice or 3 times it's price. So I guess that means that every Ferrari or Lamborghini that is about on par on a racetrack with a Viper is a really terrible value vs performance???

    Myself and others have said it several times before that the biggest problem is the marketing. I go to a LOT of car shows and events where lots of car guys and general public are, and I talk to a lot of people there and in general about cars. I always find it dumbfounding that most people that I talk to are clueless that the Viper came out again for 2013 and thought that either the brand was sold or discontinued a few years ago or that the Viper had been killed off years ago. No excuse for that kind of ignorance for the car guys who say such things, but then again, have you ever seen any commercials or real marketing for the new Viper in very visible places? The Corvette ads are fantastic and are literally everywhere, and they have tons of people talking about it and drooling over it. Isn't the purpose of a car manufacturer having a halo car to use it to dangle in front of people's faces in order to entice them to look at the brand and generate excitement? Isn't SRT a new and supposed "exciting" performance brand, yet most people have either never heard of it or don't even realize that the Viper is back out again? There's your main problem and cause for any lackluster sales last year, among a couple of other reasons previously mentioned.
     
  10. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    "The Viper is overpriced"

    Because you can't afford it, doesn't mean it is overpriced.

    People clearly have no idea what just standard cars cost in 2013.
     
  11. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Viper Owner

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    You spend ~$100K for a Viper that can beat other cars costing $300K-$500K+ on a race course - that makes the Viper's performance-price ratio 3:1 to 5:1...you can't really argue with the numbers, and claiming the Viper is not a high-end car shows that you're out of touch with reality.
     
  12. SnakeEye

    SnakeEye Viper Owner

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    Take for example a 911S, starts at $100,000 with only 400 hp... now they got it rough.
     
  13. HobokenViper

    HobokenViper Viper Owner

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    What other cars are in the 600 Club? For those of you who claim that the Viper is not a high end car or doesn't have enough performance or horsepower, this should be a nice learning experience.

    1. SRT Viper
    2. Ferrari 599/F12
    3. Ferrari FF
    4. A couple über high end and expensive Porsche models, including the new 918 hybrid Supercar.
    5. Bentley Continental Supersports
    6. Bugatti Veyron
    7. A couple über high end Mercedes models, namely the Black Series AMG lines of a couple models
    8. Corvette ZR1
    9. Ford Shelby GT500
    10. Lamborghini Aventador
    11. Aston Martin One-77
    12. Ferrari LaFerrari
    13. Lamborghini Veneno
    14. Pagani Huayra
    15. McLaren 12C
    16. McLaren P1
    17. I'm sure I missed a couple other rare and high end cars on here, but who's counting.....you get the picture.....

    Of all these, the Ford Shelby GT500 obviously doesn't quite fit in despite being a very special Mustang, but even if you count it, the Viper is the 3rd cheapest car on this list, and the ZR1 is not much less in price and not much greater in production numbers. Most cars on this list have comparable 0-60 times of below 4 seconds, with several being at or below 3.5 seconds including the Viper. Most do not beat the Viper on a track if handled by skilled and confident hands, and most FAR eclipse the Viper in price. I fail to see where anyone could possibly find anything to complain about in terms of performance, acceleration, horsepower, fit & finish, and whatever else, especially with regards to the sticker price. I think the problem most complainers really have with the price is that it is now potentially a good amount more expensive than the outgoing model, which probably annoyed some because its now above their means.

    If you can afford one, buy one. If not, quit complaining about spilled milk with opinionated "facts" that aren't true, and stop splitting hairs in your arguments. instead, spend more time working harder to afford one. You will change your tone once you drive it and will have a huge smile on your face guaranteed. It's great to be able to hang in such great company as the cars on the 600 Club listed above for a fraction of the price of almost all of them.
     
  14. Twister

    Twister Viper Owner

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    Excellent post
     
  15. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Agreed. The Mustang doesn't belong on that list, but the engine does. The rest of the car is low quality junk. If there were a new Ford GT with that engine, it would be spectacular.

    The ZR1 baseline MSRP was $112K. That is more expensive than a Gen V viper, which base MSRP was $104K. Again, people complaining about price and quoting "$140K Viper" clearly haven't done any real price comparison or shopping. Even the very base SRT no-option Gen V has more features and will out perform the outgoing Gen 4. SRT messed up by creating what could be perceived as a "base model" for the Viper. We have a lot of shoppers out there that have more ego than wallet, and won't settle for anything but the best. So, if the best is a "$140K Viper", and they can't swing it, then they complain about it. My SRT Gen V is a MUCH nicer car than my $92K MSRP '06 coupe. Considering that my car is now 8 model years old, the price hasn't changed that much at all.
     
  16. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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    Good post for what you are trying to say overall but I couldn't help feel that comment about opinionated "facts" was aimed at me, yet your post is nothing more than the same. Nice. There are many that would be of the opinion that neither Viper, ZR1 nor the Shelby belong on that list. But it would simply be their opinion as this is yours. No big deal really...

    I personally feel the Viper is an exotic supercar and its pricetag reflects that hence I've never argued price or whether it belongs in such company. But the performance for some is not enough, though it is obviously for the owners. Everybody has an opinion and its an open forum so you have to deal with that. No real need for the insults and ignorant back and forths because some of us don't share the same opinion.
     
  17. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Viper Owner

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    In other words, the people who own a Viper, drive it and win races with it KNOW the car is great and have records to back up the assertion (thereby making the claims factual and not opinion)...then come along the people on the internet who love mag racing feel they need to chime in with their opinion, claiming that the Viper lacks something because it is not like some other car, and we're supposed to just let that slide?

    Would you solicit a walmart cashier for a second opinion on a life-threatening heart condition...or would you seek out a cardiologist?

    While there is nothing preventing ignorant people from having opinions, the expectation that these opinions should go unchallenged would only serve to perpetuate misinformation.
     
  18. HobokenViper

    HobokenViper Viper Owner

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    Nothing in my post was directed at you, nor at anyone else in particular for that matter. I don't really pay attention to who says what on here in particular, but I have noticed that a lot of people lately have been making bold statements that are largely opinion based and present them as if they are factual. After I read too many things like that on here I sometimes feel the need to respond to set the record straight. So definitely nothing at all personally directed at you.

    People who have one of the much more expensive cars on the 600+ horsepower club list may not like the fact that a far less expensive Corvette, Viper, or even Mustang are on the list with them as they may see the cars as inferior, much like we look at the Shelby GT500 and may feel like its not worthy of being there either. Fact is, it's a list of cars with 600+ horsepower regardless of who makes it and what the finishes are, so they do all belong on that list whether someone likes it or not.

    I don't know if the last 2 sentences in your post were directed at me or not, but I have made it a personal point to NEVER call anyone names, throw out insults, or make ignorant comments, as that would automatically invalidate the points that I'm trying to make and only make me look like a fool. Just look at every single post ive ever made on here, and you will see that is true. I have no ill feelings to anyone on here.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and most of us here appreciate that an open forum will have many differing perspectives shared. It's only when people make ignorant or inflammatory comments, or use their opinions as if they are facts, that myself and others start to have a problem with some people's posts. Making threads or posts stating that the Viper is not a high end car, that it has poor performance, or that it is not an improvement over its predecessors is not only entirely someone's opinion, but it's also just not true. Anyone has the right to like or dislike a car, but the constant complaining by people who do not own a Gen V, have not yet driven a Gen V, or haven't even seen one in person can be maddening and serves no point on here. You dont like it? Fine, then dont buy it.....but dont go dragging the car and brand through the mud publicly. It does a disservice to the car and brand because people DO come looking at this forum when they are considering purchasing a new or used Viper, and their decisions can certainly be influenced either way by what is written on here. I know this to be true because when I was considering buying my Viper, I came to this site and saw how great the VCA was at the time, learned a ton of great info that I didn't previously know, and ultimately realized that this was the right car for me. I know many others on here that have done the same. I fear that the opposite might be happening now with so many of the old members gone, and with many non-owners left posting negative, mostly false opinionated comments that negatively influence people to think its not the great car that it is, further hurting sales.
     
  19. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    This thread is interesting but the real test will be when the new Z06 debuts in January at the Detroit Auto Show. There has been a mostly friendly rivalry between the Viper Nation and the Z06/ZR1 Corvette Nation for a long time. The rivalry is great. It motivates both manufacturers to keep one upping the other. I hope the Gen V succees so that the rivalry continues.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  20. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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    My later sentences were not aimed at you just the general trend I see a lot of posters, both owners and non owners, take. There is no discussion just ignorant rants, childish attacks and laughably amateurish attempts at psychology and assumptions on peoples financial abilities on both sides. All from a few lines of text with a differing opinion lol. You are measured in your responses so there is actually a discussion to be had unlike with some on both sides.

    Bottom-line is that I hope the car succeeds despite the bad sales start and press. I think 2014 will be a much better year in terms of press and maybe marketing which hopefully will translate into more sales. But it is going to be an uphill battle to undo the perceptions that have been formed due to the launch issues and everything surrounding it. Just my 2c
     
  21. HobokenViper

    HobokenViper Viper Owner

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    I agree with you SnakeBitten. This is just a car forum and we are all supposed to be adults here. It's painful to read the posts laden with personal attacks, ignorant comments, etc.....I get embarrassed for those posting in that way. Why can't we all just get along and enjoy our cars?
     
  22. Chuck 98 RT/10

    Chuck 98 RT/10 Enthusiast

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    Hello F2V, remember me? I'm of the GenI/II clan that bought Vipers regardless of the bashing it took from critics. We knew what we wanted and Dodge knew what we wanted and they built it for us. The result was a decade of a glorious car and mystic surpassing anything in automotive history.

    You represent the target customer of the new refined Viper. And sales are down. Why?
     
  23. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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    I concur HV. But it just seems like the majority just want to fight instead of discussing views, sharing constructive criticism etc. I fear it may get even uglier in here once the Z06/ZR1 drops.
     
  24. Darth Menace

    Darth Menace Enthusiast

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    I love the look of the Gen5 viper, but I would appreciate not being called a wanna-be just because I own a previous model. wow
     
  25. viper GTS-R

    viper GTS-R Enthusiast

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    Come January it won't be friendly, actually it might not even exist! LOL

    BTW alot of you guys forgot the fact the LFA couldn't be bought right away. Toyota made sure you were in it to buy it by making you lease the car for a year and then making the offer.

    Nice car, but a complete waste of time. They could have already built and sold a few other projects by now.

    --RS
     
  26. Bruce H.

    Bruce H. Enthusiast

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    I could list a dozen reasons that don't have anything to do with the performance of the car or its competition. They've all been rehashed ad nauseam in threads like this. Those considering a Viper for the first time naturally seek information on forums, and this is the kind of discussion they find. They probably won't care about the past history of the car, or what was important to owners of previous generations. They knew it as an unrefined beast that didn't appeal to them, but are now giving the new and improved Gen V a look.

    So #1 has to be the lack of broad and strong support on this forum and Viper Alley's. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

    #2 Viper Owner Stereotype. You may not realize the impact of it, but there are so many members that present their character in such a poor light personally, and the community as a whole, and the "target customer of the new refined Viper" will shudder at the thought of being affiliated with this sort of group. Heck, many previous Gen owners that have bought the Gen V don't want to associate with this group. Try to have a bit of class guys...the stereotype you've created really needs some work.

    Now that SRT has addressed a few issues things will improve, and new reviews should all be mostly favorable. The car remains too extreme for most, thankfully, so sales will remain low. And because it has world class performance it will be profiled alongside the best out there. It will still not be the instant favorite to the casual tester, or to many previous gen owners, but if we don't scare away new prospective buyers it will be the success that Ralph and company envisioned.

    Bruce
     
  27. HANKFAN

    HANKFAN Viper Owner

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    I don't think the Viper will survive if SRT doesn't find a way to release the info needed to allow customers to mod the Gen V. Not being able to mod the Gen V is really keeping the new Viper from appealing to a larger segment of the market. I personally would by a Gen V today if I could add a Paxton kit just like I did on my 06 Coupe.
     
  28. PDCjonny

    PDCjonny Enthusiast

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    Sorry but there is NO way I'm buying the proposition that people posting here or the Alley is the reason for lackluster sales.
    99% of the public doesn't know these sites exist.
    Unfortunately due to woeful SRT marketing they also don't know the Viper exists.
     
  29. Free2go

    Free2go Viper Owner

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    Even someone as absurd as myself laughs at some of these posts. The damn GenV is not much more $ than previous models. If you want one, they are not out of reach by any stretch of the imagination. GenV owners really appear as snobs when they think that anyone who complains about them can't afford one. Some people were just expecting a "world beater" out of the GenV and it didn't materialize. It surely had the potential, which is why it is so frustrating talking about it. It is also laughable to even remotely blame sales on negative posts on here and Viper Alley.
     
  30. HobokenViper

    HobokenViper Viper Owner

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    While I agree that 99% of the public may not know that these sites exist, people who are considering a Viper purchase will usually do their full research prior to taking the plunge, much like I did, Bruce H did, and many others that I know as well. We all learned about the VCA and came here to do most of our research, which ultimately helped us to decide that this car was for us. At the time that I started sifting through these forums, it was a much more positive place with lots of helpful people and great threads that I enjoyed reading. It added fuel to the fire for reasons why i wanted the car with so many positive threads and contributions, and it validated everything that i had been thinking already. I remember actually being excited to be able to become an active member of the VCA once I bought my car. My how times have changed so quickly.....lately I'm sorry to say that I've almost been embarrassed with all the whining, complaining, negativity, BS with the board, etc.....

    I've said it several times before, and I'll say it again, poor marketing efforts and lack of any real or memorable ads for the Viper or SRT has definitely hurt sales and the brand. I'm always shocked at how many people, many of which are car guys, don't know that the Viper is back out on the market and thought it was killed off for good a few years ago. I'm sure that there are a lot of potential buyers out there that just have no clue that it even exists right now, especially with SRT's push to expand sales of this car to a new crowd of non-Viper owners.

    I also have an interesting personal perception to make to that end. I recently moved and now live in an affluent area in Westchester County, NY, where I am literally probably the only Viper owner in a town filled with Maseratti, Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, and Audi owners. It's a real country club-type town and you literally see exotics parked throughout town, at the local shops, and at the gym any given day, and the rest are very high end sports or luxury cars. The Viper doesn't really appeal to that "country club crowd" as it is not the kind of car that is easy to drive, and it is extremely loud and obnoxious (one of the reasons why many of us love it). It just doesn't seem to appeal to them, and i feel like i stand out like a sore thumb with my Viper when I take it out around town. Unfortunately I don't see many from that crowd running out to buy a Viper, even though that is the group that could easily afford one, or two. They tend go for the cars that are viewed as "more refined" and luxurious instead of something that will scare their wives and make their kids cry.
     

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