Tuners?

Luisv

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OK ... Another question. Tuners? The car is a 2002. So far it is bone stock, but I am planning on making some changes. I don't think I'll go forced induction on this car. Will probably go with headers/exhaust, roller rockers, heads and cam. Not necessarily in that order... But definitely over time. For the immediate future, it will start with smooth tubes and a baseline tune to perfect the tune for the base config.

What would be the recommendation? I've seen a few mentioned out there. What are the pros and cons? I've tried a search but did not really see a comparison of options. So let me have it...

Thanks!

I know I've been asking a lot of questions... But I do promise to contribute once I get some more experience with this under my belt!
 

Viper Specialty

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OK ... Another question. Tuners? The car is a 2002. So far it is bone stock, but I am planning on making some changes. I don't think I'll go forced induction on this car. Will probably go with headers/exhaust, roller rockers, heads and cam. Not necessarily in that order... But definitely over time. For the immediate future, it will start with smooth tubes and a baseline tune to perfect the tune for the base config.

What would be the recommendation? I've seen a few mentioned out there. What are the pros and cons? I've tried a search but did not really see a comparison of options. So let me have it...

Thanks!

I know I've been asking a lot of questions... But I do promise to contribute once I get some more experience with this under my belt!

Hello,

Are you referring to tuners as in specific shops? Or are you referring to hardware options?
 
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Luisv

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Sorry... yeah. Not very clear.

I am talking about tuners as in the devices to plug into the ODB port to flash tunes into the car. Like an SCT XCalibrator or a Diablo Predator (what I use in the Charger for loading custom tunes). I have seen mention of a VEC but I think this includes the software.

Bottom line... I am wondering what the options are for tuning the car and the device I need to do it. I, typically, have my car tuned by somebody else as I have never taken the expenditure of the software. This is the case with the Diablo on the Charger. I simply have a custom tune done after bringing data logs and throwing it up on a dyno. However, I am not terrified of learning to do it myself if that is the best option.
 

vipzilla

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well its a 2002 a few years ago i would have said a vec but today you only need a sct tuner question is ansered thread is done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sighned experianced viper owner ....if its been done to a viper ive done it!!!!!
 
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Luisv

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Ok... Lol... So the SCT is an option... This level of tuner is what I have on the Charger... What would be the additional benefits that a VEC would give me for triple the dollars?
 

MTGTS

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Get whatever the person that will be tuning your car is comfortable with. Since you are down in S. FL I'm guessing you'll be having Doug Levin tune your car. I know Doug doesn't like to tune with SCT's.
 
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Luisv

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Get whatever the person that will be tuning your car is comfortable with. Since you are down in S. FL I'm guessing you'll be having Doug Levin tune your car. I know Doug doesn't like to tune with SCT's.

Makes sense. But in the end, it's double the price. It's More than a set of rockers...or a new cam....

On board data logger would be about it.

That does not really concern me... It would mean I need a notebook to data log? I do that with the Charger and the Diablo tuner.

How hard is it to work software for the SCT? In I decide to go with the software so I can make edits....
 

MTGTS

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Makes sense. But in the end, it's double the price. It's More than a set of rockers...or a new cam....



That does not really concern me... It would mean I need a notebook to data log? I do that with the Charger and the Diablo tuner.

How hard is it to work software for the SCT? In I decide to go with the software so I can make edits....

The SCT does NOT data log and you end up having to buy something else for that function anyways. The SCT is great for tuning some simple bolts on and getting some extra hp from them. Once you start changing cam, heads, injectors, etc.. you really need to know what you are doing and MOST people don't, that includes tuners. Dan @ VSP and Todd@ A&C are a couple that DO actually know what they are doing, they are just nowhere close to us. You're gonna end up spending $10k for all those bolts on and a head/cam swap. The ECU is NOT the place to try and save $$$.
 
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Luisv

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I was also recently told that to work with the VEC, I have to cut into the harness to essentially "splice" it in... This is a worry for me... I'm not 100% sure I want to do that. Is this the case?

Also, heads and cam are a ways out. Is the SCT worthless if I decide to do that?
 

EllowViper

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My SCT datalogs via the LiveWire application. I have it hooked into my innovate LC-1 WB to also log AFR. Pretty slick.
 

ViperTony

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The VEC is a waste unless you plan on running a Roe Supercharger. Comparing the VEC and SCT is comparing apples to oranges. The Vec is limited in what it can 'tune' whereas the SCT covers pretty much everything in the PCM, closed and open loop, among other things. The SCT does not require splicing into the wiring harness, it programs/flashes the PCM via the OBDII port. I had the Vec3 and it was overkill for my simple bolt-ons at the time. But the SCT was not out at that time and the only other option for tuning was sending the PCM to a tuner that could flash it. However, the VECs' value has always been and continues to be for the Roe Supercharger.

With the SCT, my tuner can adjust when my fan turns on, for example. The VEC cannot do that. The VEC can't eliminate the skip shift. Installed a big cam and having some idle issues, rubber-necking? The Vec can't help, at all. The SCT, on the other hand, no problem. The VEC is not a true data logger but does log injector pulse width, timing, MAP, RPM I think. The Vec can also read boost. And, the Vec caused issues for me, namely hesitation issues when going WOT. This was discussed some time ago in various threads on this forum. But most VEC users I knew of also used additional logging sofware in addition to the Vec. I think the Vec has a perfect place with Roe, beyond that, and with the SCT out, it's limited in scope.

Someone mentioned tuners....it's true, the SCT for Vipers is under-documented and experienced SCT/Viper tuners are few. Dan at Viper Specialty, Todd at AC Performance, Chris at DC Performance are more than able. Take Chris for instance, he's currently fine-tuning my setup: GG Heads and Cam and a few other bolt-ons. He's doing it remotely. How? It's not rocket science....I have a wideband installed and I'm logging my AFR as well as OBD data via PCMSCAN all in one easy to read log file including STFT/LTFT among other parameters he requires in order to dial in the tune. It gives Chris a complete picture of what my engine is doing and how it is responding to tuning changes. In the hands of a competent/experienced tuner like Chris, this is not a problem for him remotely.

I'm documenting my SCT Tuning journey here: http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/654520-Data-Logging-LTFT-Interpretation Should be updated with more details soon.

Find yourself an experienced, reputable tuner and stick with them and their recommendation. A few were named in this thread, all are worthy of your consideration. If you decided that you want to take over the SCT tuning for yourself, SCT sells the ProRacer package which is under-documented. Best to team up with an experience tuner to get going on the software. The Vec interface was easy to use, ProRacer not so much.
 

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