updates Chuck???????????????

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Viper Wizard

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All good things come to an end. Eventually the VIPER's production will end. Dealerships that have been dealerships for 100 years or 1,000 years eventually might not be anymore. In all honesty if I had a dealer that wasn't pulling it's weight or not living up to whatever standard it was to be a dealer, I wouldn't care if the owner was the wizard, the sorcerer or the grand pooba.

It's like everyone here is slamming big corporate business tactics and decisions, when in fact - the only reason the Dodge Viper even exists is because of the big corporate money put into creating, developing, refining and producing it every year. And the only reason that corporate money existed was because of the brash crappy big corporate business tactics everyone is rallying against.

What you need to realize, is that Chrylser MAYBE cared what the public thought when they were a public company, but now that they've been taken private, it's a whole different ballgame. You can write them and stage a rally and no one is going to care. The people at the top took the company private so they could in fact do whatever the hell they wanted with it WITHOUT the influence of public opinion.

That means destroying whole model lines including maybe the Viper. Getting rid of dealerships and suppliers they don't like for whatever reason. And, eventually, if they can't turn the company around to their satisfaction, part the whole thing out, like a totalled Viper on ebay.

My personal odds on this are 50/50 as it stands already. A quote in Fortune one year ago states in considering reasons for the Cerberus acquisition that "Chrysler isn't worth very much as an automaker". Cerberus is just doing a little saving face by trying to turn things around and polish it up before they send it to the chop shop. Again from Fortune "Cerberus' most likely strategy would seem to be to dress Chrysler up for a sale to another automaker - probably a foreign one"

Those customer surveys they're doing, etc. are just leftovers from before. The new owners of Chrysler already have their minds made up about what they're going to do. Customer satisfaction surverys aren't going to play into it one bit.

I mean really Chuck, if they're treating you that bad, do you really even WANT to do business with them? It's like if your girlfriend/wife refuses to have sex with you anymore because you don't make them enough money. Are you going to sit around begging them to reconsider and stage a protest rally? Or find someone else to date?

Maybe in 5 years Tator's Chevrolet will be the premiere Z06 service center in the US??

So your saying that when in the 70's when Chrysler was in trouble and they asked their Dealers to invest more in the company to save it and "WE DID" does not mean anything today?

Thank you for your comments but with that outlook on life, you may end up a cranky old man with no visitors.
 

PittsburghRT

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I mean really Chuck, if they're treating you that bad, do you really even WANT to do business with them? It's like if your girlfriend/wife refuses to have sex with you anymore because you don't make them enough money. Are you going to sit around begging them to reconsider and stage a protest rally? Or find someone else to date?

quote]

ViperDud are you speaking from personal experience? :dunno:
 

black mamba1

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All good things come to an end. Eventually the VIPER's production will end. Dealerships that have been dealerships for 100 years or 1,000 years eventually might not be anymore. In all honesty if I had a dealer that wasn't pulling it's weight or not living up to whatever standard it was to be a dealer, I wouldn't care if the owner was the wizard, the sorcerer or the grand pooba.

It's like everyone here is slamming big corporate business tactics and decisions, when in fact - the only reason the Dodge Viper even exists is because of the big corporate money put into creating, developing, refining and producing it every year. And the only reason that corporate money existed was because of the brash crappy big corporate business tactics everyone is rallying against.

What you need to realize, is that Chrylser MAYBE cared what the public thought when they were a public company, but now that they've been taken private, it's a whole different ballgame. You can write them and stage a rally and no one is going to care. The people at the top took the company private so they could in fact do whatever the hell they wanted with it WITHOUT the influence of public opinion.

That means destroying whole model lines including maybe the Viper. Getting rid of dealerships and suppliers they don't like for whatever reason. And, eventually, if they can't turn the company around to their satisfaction, part the whole thing out, like a totalled Viper on ebay.

My personal odds on this are 50/50 as it stands already. A quote in Fortune one year ago states in considering reasons for the Cerberus acquisition that "Chrysler isn't worth very much as an automaker". Cerberus is just doing a little saving face by trying to turn things around and polish it up before they send it to the chop shop. Again from Fortune "Cerberus' most likely strategy would seem to be to dress Chrysler up for a sale to another automaker - probably a foreign one"

Those customer surveys they're doing, etc. are just leftovers from before. The new owners of Chrysler already have their minds made up about what they're going to do. Customer satisfaction surverys aren't going to play into it one bit.

I mean really Chuck, if they're treating you that bad, do you really even WANT to do business with them? It's like if your girlfriend/wife refuses to have sex with you anymore because you don't make them enough money. Are you going to sit around begging them to reconsider and stage a protest rally? Or find someone else to date?

Maybe in 5 years Tator's Chevrolet will be the premiere Z06 service center in the US??
There is a saying..."If all u care about is money, you will never have any."
People who think like that lose billions of dollars/yr. Like Chrysler, GM, and Ford. Selling cars is not like selling paper towels. Cars are often a thing of passion, a work of art, an extension of ones personality. Porsche gets it. Honda gets it. Ferrari gets it. Even Chevy gets it. SRT gets it. But you my friend, like Cerebus, dont get it. So....

While this is a very logical response if u are selling dial soap to correctional facilities...it is way off target when selling the second most expensive investement in most households.
 

ViperTony

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I can understand the corporate view and one size fits all perspective. But it doesn't always work and hence Chrysler is a great example of penny-wise and pound foolish. Chuck's operation sells Chrysler vehicles through excellent customer service that produces new Chrysler customers as well as repeat customers. Is Tator's Dodge bankrupting Chrysler Financial? No. Is Tator's Dodge the reason Chrysler is not selling more cars that people don't want? No. In fact...Tator's Dodge is the most cost-effective, highest ROI Chrysler has probably ever made. In the overall scheme of Chrysler's woes closing Tator's Dodge isn't going to help them one bit. It'll backfire. Mega dealerships exist today that wish they had even a shred of Chuck's customer loyalty and repeat service business.
 

SSG CHIC

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All good things come to an end. Eventually the VIPER's production will end. Dealerships that have been dealerships for 100 years or 1,000 years eventually might not be anymore. In all honesty if I had a dealer that wasn't pulling it's weight or not living up to whatever standard it was to be a dealer, I wouldn't care if the owner was the wizard, the sorcerer or the grand pooba.

So I guess it is safe to say that when your viper is need of repair, you won't be calling Chuck?:nono:
 

musicncars

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All good things come to an end. Eventually the VIPER's production will end. Dealerships that have been dealerships for 100 years or 1,000 years eventually might not be anymore. In all honesty if I had a dealer that wasn't pulling it's weight or not living up to whatever standard it was to be a dealer, I wouldn't care if the owner was the wizard, the sorcerer or the grand pooba.

It's like everyone here is slamming big corporate business tactics and decisions, when in fact - the only reason the Dodge Viper even exists is because of the big corporate money put into creating, developing, refining and producing it every year. And the only reason that corporate money existed was because of the brash crappy big corporate business tactics everyone is rallying against.

What you need to realize, is that Chrylser MAYBE cared what the public thought when they were a public company, but now that they've been taken private, it's a whole different ballgame. You can write them and stage a rally and no one is going to care. The people at the top took the company private so they could in fact do whatever the hell they wanted with it WITHOUT the influence of public opinion.

That means destroying whole model lines including maybe the Viper. Getting rid of dealerships and suppliers they don't like for whatever reason. And, eventually, if they can't turn the company around to their satisfaction, part the whole thing out, like a totalled Viper on ebay.

My personal odds on this are 50/50 as it stands already. A quote in Fortune one year ago states in considering reasons for the Cerberus acquisition that "Chrysler isn't worth very much as an automaker". Cerberus is just doing a little saving face by trying to turn things around and polish it up before they send it to the chop shop. Again from Fortune "Cerberus' most likely strategy would seem to be to dress Chrysler up for a sale to another automaker - probably a foreign one"

Those customer surveys they're doing, etc. are just leftovers from before. The new owners of Chrysler already have their minds made up about what they're going to do. Customer satisfaction surverys aren't going to play into it one bit.

I mean really Chuck, if they're treating you that bad, do you really even WANT to do business with them? It's like if your girlfriend/wife refuses to have sex with you anymore because you don't make them enough money. Are you going to sit around begging them to reconsider and stage a protest rally? Or find someone else to date?

Maybe in 5 years Tator's Chevrolet will be the premiere Z06 service center in the US??

Blasphemy!!!! Traitor!!!! Do you work for Cerebus? With that kind of logic, it seems as if you have no soul, just like the big corporations. Do you not realize that Taters stands for something more than a profit margin?...It stands as a true testament to Dodge's success as a car manufacturer. Taters has historical value as well. Taters has seen two world wars, survived the great depression and the gas crunch of the 70's. Taters was founded during a time when a man's word meant everything. I wasn't there but i am sure that Mr. Tater gave a handshake and a promise to Dodge Bros way back when that they would do their best to sell and promote their products. It is a very unfortunate thing that this is how Taters story may end.
Perhaps you should sell your viper, your moniker should be stripped and you should be forever known as VetteDude.:D
+1 for The Wizard!:2tu:
 
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I live and work in the Ft. Lauderdale area.
Big, bad 5-star Fairbanks Dodge is in Sunrise Florida, real close to my home.
Tators Dodge is in the northeast, way, way far away.
I'd rather drive to Tators for an oil change, than Fairbanks.
Enough said.
 

Warp10

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Denny
My grandfather started his rural Chrysler dealership in PA in the 1930's. It's still in the family today. My first cousin runs it now, and he says he's being treated the same as you and Chuck and the rest of the small loyal dealers.
Fletcher's Garage in Fryburg, PA.
 

ViperDude

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So your saying that when in the 70's when Chrysler was in trouble and they asked their Dealers to invest more in the company to save it and "WE DID" does not mean anything today?

Thank you for your comments but with that outlook on life, you may end up a cranky old man with no visitors.

YES, 100% I am saying that. Chrysler is a corporation, not a small business. Whatever happens in the 70's means nothing today, because the people that ran the place then, all the way up to the board of directors, is gone and replaced by people who only care about profit margin and trimming the fat, and the lean. You on the other hand as the owner of what is generally deemed to be a small business, are still here.

If you are a small business aligning yourself with a big corporation, you need to understand the massive distinction between the two, not only how they operate, but how they operate OVER TIME, and what can happen in 5, 10 or 20 years, and BE PREPARED for it.

Realize that tomorrow, if the people at Cerberus decided to call it Cerberus Automotive instead of Chrysler, within 30 days it would be done, and the logo and everything replaced on every car and every dealership. They likely won't do it only because they feel the word Chrysler still might be worth something. BUT other than the name, anything else Chrysler stood for is gone.

As far as Chuck standing for something other than proftit margin, look who he's aligned with, meaning Chrysler as it now is?

Every big mega-billion dollar corporation is focused on the bottom line. Chrysler was a bit more lenient than some because they counted on their dealers for their bottom line in years past. Now that Chrysler is gone. Did it ever occur to anyone that if Tator and every other small dealer like him, sold way more cars than they did in the past 5-10 years, Chrysler may have made it and may not have been put up for sale??

Maybe dealers not moving enough units was one of the top reasons in Chrysler's eyes for their failure, and now it's FIX #1 on their list to axe those people.

Also on the alignment point, if you're a great human being, and you care about people in your business, and treat your customers awesome as your selling to them, but your suppliers are the mafia, and the mafia comes and shoots you because you didn't sell enough dope that year, would it make sense for all your friends to say "How dare the mafia shoot Bob, he was a great kind friendly human being who stood for more than making money and profit margins".

I mean duh, Chrysler isn't some non-profit humanitarian group, and if there is a comparison to be made, they are far closer to the mob than to the former at this stage, with private ownership and their new goals.

Just because a big corporate business SERVICES people and their CUSTOMERS are people, doesn't mean they CARE about people. I myself do care about people, and while I personally feel bad for Chuck, but my opinion comes from the REALITY point of who and what Cerberus is and what they have in mind for Chrysler.
 
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ViperDude

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Also, takeovers happen all the time. Just look at Yahoo and Microsoft. Yahoo definitely stands for a creative people culture, and are a whole different world than Microsoft. That is why they are fighting the takeover so hard. But unfortunately, just as in the case of Chrysler, they put themselves in a position as a public company with their lackluster performance where they can be bought, and Microsoft WILL take them over. The only thing stopping it will be a anti-trust decision barring it on behalf of the government, but analysts feel Microsoft's chances are good. So when it happens, lots of people who GAVE THEIR LIVES TO MAKE YAHOO WHAT IT IS TODAY -> WILL BE SH*T-CANNED ON DAY 1. That is the way it is. No amount of 'Save Yahoo' T-shirts is going to stop it.

Ferrari has a legacy, and a different mindset. Every single one of their products is high end, and they stand for quality. Just because Chrysler has ONE high end product, all hand assembled etc., doesn't mean the company stands for that. In fact if anything the Viper sticks out like such a sore thumb in the product lineup from a business standpoint, it's a good chance Cerberus will axe it, because while in of itself Viper stands for quality and emotion and all that jazz, CHRYSLER AS A WHOLE DOES NOT, not to that level anyways. They're not friggin Kia but they sure ain't Ferrari either.

**In an effort to help Chuck, some advice that will work. Everybody stop their email blasts and t-shirts and re-writing We Are The World, and help Chuck put together a business plan, that explains in clear big business financial language with charts and spreadsheets, how Chuck will turn his business around and start moving units. Include a detailed marketing plan as well. Heck this forum could even be a focus of that. Instead of a petition to 'Save Tators' start a petition that promises that every member of this forum will buy their next Chrysler car from Tator, and pay shipping themselves to boot. It may make sense, does it not, that company looking to turn it self around (Chrysler) is looking for dealers that will do the same, as the alternative/reverse makes no sense

Chuck if you were to develop that at the professional level, and submit it to Chrysler/Cerberus dealer reps, they would change their stance. In the end though if you didn't follow through on it they may do the same thing again, but at least you'll be given the chance. You could probably play thru that game cycle at least twice before Chrysler totally pulls the plug forever.

I think you all need to get it into your noggins that Cerberus did not buy Chrysler to focus on selling 'the second most expensive investement in most households'. The company is a commodity to them and when they do decide to put Chrysler up for sale in whole or in parts when they feel they've 'turned it around' enough to do so - there will be a line item in the prospectus that says '..And Cerberus eliminated more than 200 under-performing Chrysler dealerships worldwide from the dealer roster' and the prospective buyer will look at that and LIKE IT. Ever see Wall Street with Michael Douglas as Gordon Gekko? Go watch, and then you shall understand. Stephen Feinberg at Cerberus is Gordon Gekko and worse.

And if my Viper ever needed service, I would definitely send it to Chuck. I think everyone should. Chuck needs the money, and while I haven't dealt with him I'm sure he is a great guy, and a hardworking small business owner who has devoted a good part of his life promoting an unthankful corporation.
 
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GTSnake

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Dude, you hit the nail right on the head with your insight! You obviously are an MBA man or should be. Most people just don't see the big picture of how big business thinks. Cerberus has already been rumored to be talking about selling the Jeep francise. If and when it happens it's not certain. But doesn't that indicate they are not in the business of building cars? Therefore what is their motivation to keep Chrysler intact? Didn't Gorden Gecko make more money by selling off the parts than keeping the company whole?

I think you're right in that Cerberus is just a temporary investor that is trying to polish up the paint job before putting it on the market to maybe a Chinese company??? Think about how much a Chinese manufacturer would benefit by buying Chrysler. They gain instant access to the US market. Instant infrastructure and engineering resources. I wonder though if the US government would allow such a purchase to a communist country company. Similar to what they did when a Chinese oil company tried to purchase Chevron.
 

CitySnake

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Someone needs to explain how Tator's Dodge (or any small Dodge dealer for that matter) costs Chrysler money if they sell a relatively small amount of vehicles.

Contrasting,

Someone give me an estimate of the "marketing value" of Chrysler "publicly protecting" its oldest remaining family owned dealer. This estimate should include the photo sessions of Chuck and his Dad at CAAP with their "dealership awards" dating back to 1914. How much does Chrysler expend on marketing annually?

Perhaps ViperDude can opine on this contrasting potential loss v. potential profit.
 

VIPER BAZ UK

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Where the hell did all that come from............


From what i understand Tators dodge owe DC very very little if anything,, He owns all the land and buildings so what he sells (cars trucks and parts) DC gets a share for just shipping them to Tators Dodge...
 

musicncars

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Thats seems to be the BIGGEST problem with big corporations......little to no integrity. also, not very much hindsight when realizing how important of an asset a business like Taters has been.
very good that dodge became bigger than it was when it started, but it was also, due in no small part, to places like Taters. And i agree, it isnt hurting them to keep Taters around.
 

ViperDude

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Someone needs to explain how Tator's Dodge (or any small Dodge dealer for that matter) costs Chrysler money if they sell a relatively small amount of vehicles.

That is one way to look at it, and a true statement from a purely technical standpoint.

However even though that is one way to look at it, that is not the way Chrysler looks at it.

I've never been a car dealer so I can't speak to the specifics of the contractual language in a dealer franchise agreement or license, but, from what I know of most deals like this, I can hazard an educated guess.

The way Chrysler looks at their dealers (especially now) is no different than how any car dealer looks at their sales people. Same dynamic, just shifted further up the chain.

If you’re a car dealer employing 10 sales people, and they are all doing well, you keep them all on board. If after a number of years, a couple of them start to sell very few cars, well eventually they will be fired will they not?

I know some people that worked as salesmen at car dealerships, and from what I remember in some cases they were on straight commission, no base pay whatsoever. So imagine you've got all these sales people on straight commission, and a couple of them aren't really selling any cars, even though they're on straight comission, after enough time goes by - what would you do?

Initially you would talk to them, you would ask them what's wrong and how maybe you can work with them to get them to do better, or you may just leave them be hoping they realize the importance of PERFORMANCE and turn things around themselves, and remind them of some piece of paper they signed when they were 'hired' that stated that 'In order to maintain your position as a salesman at Bob's Car Dealership, you need to sell a minimum of XX cars average per month [or per year, or whatever'].

So with that said, if those sales people consistently barely sold any cars, or no cars at certain points, would you keep them on at the dealership? Imagine they were the great-great-great grandson of a family that for generations had worked at your car dealers as sales people, father to son, to son, etc.

You would give them more leeway, you would let them slide a bit longer than anyone else, but eventually wouldn't you let them go? Because the alternative that even though this person isn't 'costing you any money' he is technically, under the terms of your agreement with him, supposed to be selling a certain number of cars, and he has not been doing that, for quite some time.

Now that same person may bring a lot of publicity to your dealership, he may have great public relations skills, and have lots of friends who have all owned a bought cars of that dealerships brand, and that salesman may even be great and steering people towards the dealership's SERVICE DEPARTMENT to get the car serviced.

But over time, that person really isn’t' a salesman anymore. If that person want to work promoting the car dealer's brand, he should go start a PR company and get the dealer or manufacturer to hire him. If he wants to strictly deal with service dept issues he should go become solely a mechanic or a service advisor. But having signed a piece of paper that says 'I am salesman and I agree to perform to this regimen of performance' and then not doing so, eventually that guy is going to get the boot.

Having the guy standing around on the sales floor waving the dealer’s flag and being a great human being and sending people to the service dept while somewhat PERHAPS benefiting the car dealer, and TECHINCALLY doesn't 'cost them any money', it simply doesn’t constitute the agreed and hired role as salesman.

Perhaps the car dealer is owned by an old man that was friends with that salesman's many generations of family that have worked there and is sympathetic and keeps the salesman there for posterity, but then the owner dies, and his brash young son takes over ownership of the dealership. The first thing the son does is say 'Okay, we're going to make some changes here and do things my way, and the first thing we're going to do is review the performance of all the salesmen, and whoever isn't performing to spec is going to get the boot'.

Get the picture? Take the whole above and translate it to Chrysler as the dealership/owner, Tator as the salesman, and Cerberus as the brash young son. Ever see the film Glenngarry Glenn Ross? Baldwin's character is Cerberus, coming into kick butt and shake em up. A memorable quote from the film when Baldwin sits all the salesmen down Baldwin tells them, "Nice guy? I don't give a sh*t. Good father? F*ck you! Go home and play with your kids. You wanna work here - close sales!"

So even if that carsalesman's family and friends stage a protest with phone calls and emails, and walked around wearing t-shirts saying ‘save Steve the salesman’, while the owner maybe sympathetic – nothing anyone says or does is going to change the simple facts that: The owner runs a car dealership, sales people who want to work there have to sell cars to the performance mark, if they don’t – they won’t be salesmen there anymore, end of story.

At the bottom line, even though it may not technically 'cost Chrysler money' to keep Tator on as a dealership, if Tator has an agreement with performance parameters that are not being met, eventually in time they're going to cut the ties, especially when a takeover and a big management change happens at the top.

If Tator has a unique and special relationship with Viper community and can promote Chrysler and Viper in some unique way, he should start a PR division and sell his services to Chrysler. But doing those things under the guise of being a licensed/franchised Chrysler dealer when not performing as mandated, doesn't fly, and that's how Chrysler looks at it. They probably see it as some kind of gift to be a licensed dealer and see it as if/when the dealer isn't holding up their part of the bargain they won't be getting all the benefits of such anymore.

You wanna be a licensed dealer - you have to perform to X specification. If you want to work on cars, start a performance shop like Heffner or DC Performance. Neither Heffner nor DC Performance are licensed car dealerships. Why? Because they don't sell any cars, they just fix them. Just because a long time ago you once sold lot of cars, well eventually the long time fades and you have to deal with the right here and now.

Also I don't have an MBA, not even close. I learned it all from experience. I dropped out of college 15 years ago to start my own company, and the only thing constant in business is change. Constant redefining and re-definition, upgrading and refining, always pushing for higher goals, higher productivity, higher revenue, better ROI, that is the language of these big companies, and I work with many. If I was to sit around and do the same things at the same level and perform at the same specification, or less, year after year, my business would be toast.

I know that's not the old school way, but it's the way things are today, for good bad, ethical or not, right or wrong. You want the luxury of owning your own business and controlling your destiny instead of showing up for work somewhere else and someone else being your boss and telling you what to do, while collecting your happy paycheck every Friday, you've got to be really really crafty, innovative, and higher-performance oriented, year afte year. Just doing a good job and providing good customer service are for people that WORK at business, not that own them, at least if the success of your own business hinges on being forced to deal with big businesses that see things in these terms, which is just about every big billion dollar bohemoth. I mean really READ what their Chryslers emails say:

Innovation has always been a driving force at Chrysler and it drives us
towards improvising and changing for the best. You can be rest assured
that this change is one of them.


Keywords: Innovate, Improvise, & Change.

In summary I don't think Chrysler is trying in any way to shut Chuck Tator's down. I think they're simply not going to let Chuck order any cars unless he's going to order how many they say he needs to or has agreed to in order to stay a Chrysler dealer. Chuck has a million options as a business owner to keep his doors opens without Chrysler's blessing. Chuck should Innovate, Improvise, & Change and not give a rat's ass what Chrysler thinks or says.
 
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GTSnake

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Viperdude, I like your analogy of the commission sales people not selling any cars. However, I would like to add that it DOES cost Chrysler something to maintain the dealer. I'm not a dealer but I would have to guess that Chrysler does spend a lot of money for each dealer. Dealers constantly receive training from the manufacturer who pays for that? What about the promotional and marketing materials? The manufacturer pays for that as well. There is a huge dealer link system that Chrysler supports for bulletins and news. I think it used to operate on satellite not sure what it looks like today. But Chrysler has to support that. So the bottom line is that it does COST Chrysler something to have a dealer franchise. So in time of saving the ship the lowest contributor to the bottome line has to be let go. It's very sad to say but it's business reality.
 

agentf1

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Chuck, I am so sorry to hear what they are doing to you. Had they done this before I bought my Viper I would probably be driving a C6 Z06 right now.

If there is anything I can do just name it.
 

Racer Robbie

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i have to commend ViperDude for having the guts to speak his mind. We should not condemn him here as everyone has a right to their opinion even if we agree or disagree. Great opinion ViperDude!
 

Matt M PA

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Through my dealings with Vipers...I met two of the most professional, personable guys. (I'm sure there are others too!) Chuck the Wizard, and Bill Pemberton.

Either one would take his shirt off and give it to you....the whole time somehow telling you that it was better for them that way.

My 2000 GTS means the world to me...and I had often thought that once my garage is done, and things settle down for this newly married guy.... I'd once again find an early RT/10 to replace the one I traded in 2000. At the time I had a '96 GTS and the '94 RT...but only had room for one so I traded into a new 2000. And I'm not sorry I did...if I can only have one Viper...it's gotta be a GTS. Yet, I still miss the R/T.

These goings on with Chuck has caused me to pause and reconsider a bit. Maybe another older Road Runner or Barracuda or even a mid '60s Mustang would fit the bill. My mind's not made up yet...but with all the restoration work I have done on older Mopars...and no Chuck Tator to rely on.....well, I won;t be making a move anytime soon.
 

Racer Robbie

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Through my dealings with Vipers...I met two of the most professional, personable guys. (I'm sure there are others too!) Chuck the Wizard, and Bill Pemberton.

I would also like to add that Jon at The Parts Rack and Dan at D.C. Performance have also been wonderful and very supportive whenever I have spoke with them as have Chuck Tator. These people are a great asset to the viper community and Chrysler should wake up and see the light. Thanks guys.
 

2snakes4us

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Viper Dude,You make some good points, but there is a thing called "History and Loyalty". there are many historical landmarks that are old and don't really serve a purpose to move America business forward but they remind us of where we come from. should we get rid of the Lincoln memorial? or tear down the white house and build a new one because its old?..Of course NOT. why should Chrysler harass Tator's. he is a historical landmark of Dodge. If i was to come and visit New York i would make a point to visit his dealership and meet chuck himself and if i lived there i would buy my cars from Tators because he has been doing busness there so long. Ask yourself,buy from the new guy you don't know? or buy from the dealer that treats EVERYONE fair and with Respect! You all do business with people you like and trust...not with the snake the lies and cheats you. We have all had dealt with a bad business in one way or another and do you go back? No..you don't.
I still stand by Tators should be left alone to do business as usual...which its Treat your customers with up-most respect.

That is one way to look at it, and a true statement from a purely technical standpoint.

However even though that is one way to look at it, that is not the way Chrysler looks at it.

I've never been a car dealer so I can't speak to the specifics of the contractual language in a dealer franchise agreement or license, but, from what I know of most deals like this, I can hazard an educated guess.

The way Chrysler looks at their dealers (especially now) is no different than how any car dealer looks at their sales people. Same dynamic, just shifted further up the chain.

If you’re a car dealer employing 10 sales people, and they are all doing well, you keep them all on board. If after a number of years, a couple of them start to sell very few cars, well eventually they will be fired will they not?

I know some people that worked as salesmen at car dealerships, and from what I remember in some cases they were on straight commission, no base pay whatsoever. So imagine you've got all these sales people on straight commission, and a couple of them aren't really selling any cars, even though they're on straight comission, after enough time goes by - what would you do?

Initially you would talk to them, you would ask them what's wrong and how maybe you can work with them to get them to do better, or you may just leave them be hoping they realize the importance of PERFORMANCE and turn things around themselves, and remind them of some piece of paper they signed when they were 'hired' that stated that 'In order to maintain your position as a salesman at Bob's Car Dealership, you need to sell a minimum of XX cars average per month [or per year, or whatever'].

So with that said, if those sales people consistently barely sold any cars, or no cars at certain points, would you keep them on at the dealership? Imagine they were the great-great-great grandson of a family that for generations had worked at your car dealers as sales people, father to son, to son, etc.

You would give them more leeway, you would let them slide a bit longer than anyone else, but eventually wouldn't you let them go? Because the alternative that even though this person isn't 'costing you any money' he is technically, under the terms of your agreement with him, supposed to be selling a certain number of cars, and he has not been doing that, for quite some time.

Now that same person may bring a lot of publicity to your dealership, he may have great public relations skills, and have lots of friends who have all owned a bought cars of that dealerships brand, and that salesman may even be great and steering people towards the dealership's SERVICE DEPARTMENT to get the car serviced.

But over time, that person really isn’t' a salesman anymore. If that person want to work promoting the car dealer's brand, he should go start a PR company and get the dealer or manufacturer to hire him. If he wants to strictly deal with service dept issues he should go become solely a mechanic or a service advisor. But having signed a piece of paper that says 'I am salesman and I agree to perform to this regimen of performance' and then not doing so, eventually that guy is going to get the boot.

Having the guy standing around on the sales floor waving the dealer’s flag and being a great human being and sending people to the service dept while somewhat PERHAPS benefiting the car dealer, and TECHINCALLY doesn't 'cost them any money', it simply doesn’t constitute the agreed and hired role as salesman.

Perhaps the car dealer is owned by an old man that was friends with that salesman's many generations of family that have worked there and is sympathetic and keeps the salesman there for posterity, but then the owner dies, and his brash young son takes over ownership of the dealership. The first thing the son does is say 'Okay, we're going to make some changes here and do things my way, and the first thing we're going to do is review the performance of all the salesmen, and whoever isn't performing to spec is going to get the boot'.

Get the picture? Take the whole above and translate it to Chrysler as the dealership/owner, Tator as the salesman, and Cerberus as the brash young son. Ever see the film Glenngarry Glenn Ross? Baldwin's character is Cerberus, coming into kick butt and shake em up. A memorable quote from the film when Baldwin sits all the salesmen down Baldwin tells them, "Nice guy? I don't give a sh*t. Good father? F*ck you! Go home and play with your kids. You wanna work here - close sales!"

So even if that carsalesman's family and friends stage a protest with phone calls and emails, and walked around wearing t-shirts saying ‘save Steve the salesman’, while the owner maybe sympathetic – nothing anyone says or does is going to change the simple facts that: The owner runs a car dealership, sales people who want to work there have to sell cars to the performance mark, if they don’t – they won’t be salesmen there anymore, end of story.

At the bottom line, even though it may not technically 'cost Chrysler money' to keep Tator on as a dealership, if Tator has an agreement with performance parameters that are not being met, eventually in time they're going to cut the ties, especially when a takeover and a big management change happens at the top.

If Tator has a unique and special relationship with Viper community and can promote Chrysler and Viper in some unique way, he should start a PR division and sell his services to Chrysler. But doing those things under the guise of being a licensed/franchised Chrysler dealer when not performing as mandated, doesn't fly, and that's how Chrysler looks at it. They probably see it as some kind of gift to be a licensed dealer and see it as if/when the dealer isn't holding up their part of the bargain they won't be getting all the benefits of such anymore.

You wanna be a licensed dealer - you have to perform to X specification. If you want to work on cars, start a performance shop like Heffner or DC Performance. Neither Heffner nor DC Performance are licensed car dealerships. Why? Because they don't sell any cars, they just fix them. Just because a long time ago you once sold lot of cars, well eventually the long time fades and you have to deal with the right here and now.

Also I don't have an MBA, not even close. I learned it all from experience. I dropped out of college 15 years ago to start my own company, and the only thing constant in business is change. Constant redefining and re-definition, upgrading and refining, always pushing for higher goals, higher productivity, higher revenue, better ROI, that is the language of these big companies, and I work with many. If I was to sit around and do the same things at the same level and perform at the same specification, or less, year after year, my business would be toast.

I know that's not the old school way, but it's the way things are today, for good bad, ethical or not, right or wrong. You want the luxury of owning your own business and controlling your destiny instead of showing up for work somewhere else and someone else being your boss and telling you what to do, while collecting your happy paycheck every Friday, you've got to be really really crafty, innovative, and higher-performance oriented, year afte year. Just doing a good job and providing good customer service are for people that WORK at business, not that own them, at least if the success of your own business hinges on being forced to deal with big businesses that see things in these terms, which is just about every big billion dollar bohemoth. I mean really READ what their Chryslers emails say:

Innovation has always been a driving force at Chrysler and it drives us
towards improvising and changing for the best. You can be rest assured
that this change is one of them.


Keywords: Innovate, Improvise, & Change.

In summary I don't think Chrysler is trying in any way to shut Chuck Tator's down. I think they're simply not going to let Chuck order any cars unless he's going to order how many they say he needs to or has agreed to in order to stay a Chrysler dealer. Chuck has a million options as a business owner to keep his doors opens without Chrysler's blessing. Chuck should Innovate, Improvise, & Change and not give a rat's ass what Chrysler thinks or says.
 
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ViperDude

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Viper Dude,You make some good points, but there is a thing called "History and Loyalty". there are many historical landmarks that are old and don't really serve a purpose to move America business forward but they remind us of where we come from. should we get rid of the Lincoln memorial? or tear down the white house and build a new one because its old?..Of course NOT. why should Chrysler harass Tator's. he is a historical landmark of Dodge.

That's taking that analogy to another plane and a stretch. Historical landmarks are usually buildings or business preserved by cities. If Tator's was being threatened with demolition for a big mini-mall, that arguement would work, as would a ground swell of people support and letter writing, because the government designates landmark, and techincally the people in the end run the government to some extent.

The government doesn't run Chrysler, nor do a voting body of people (i.e. shareholders) and the people that are running the place likely wouldn't consider such an argument.

Take the Formosa Cafe in Hollywood - Formosa Cafe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Years ago they were trying to put a giant mall in on the land with a Target and Best Buy and the whole thing got held up because the Formosa refused to vacate the property and eventually got so many people to sign petitions that the city declared it a landmark: "In the 1990s it was threatened with demolition or removal when its lease expired. Due to concerted citizen and preservationist efforts the restaurant was preserved in its present location as a landmark. Celebrity sightings are still common."

Now there's a giant mall with a Target and a Best Buy, and at the corner of the property sits the little old Formosa Cafe. But again, the city government saved it, not some company, and certainly NOT the corporations running Target and Best Buy who were looking to demolish the Formosa. They heard all the arguments and said 'so what' and kept saying 'so what' until the city finally made the landmark declaration.

So in order to apply to Tator's, Chrysler would have to own the land his dealership sits on, and would have to have been leasing it to Chuck for 100 years, and now wants to demolish Tator's to make room for a mega-showroom of modern cars, and then yes we could all write into the city and yes they would listen and probably 'save Tator's' from demolition and declare it a landmark.
 
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yellowvipergts

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I would like to add that it DOES cost Chrysler something to maintain the dealer. I'm not a dealer but I would have to guess that Chrysler does spend a lot of money for each dealer. Dealers constantly receive training from the manufacturer who pays for that? What about the promotional and marketing materials? The manufacturer pays for that as well. There is a huge dealer link system that Chrysler supports for bulletins and news. I think it used to operate on satellite not sure what it looks like today. But Chrysler has to support that. So the bottom line is that it does COST Chrysler something to have a dealer franchise. So in time of saving the ship the lowest contributor to the bottome line has to be let go. It's very sad to say but it's business reality.

The Chrysler dealership that I own has been in my family for 45 years. Therefore, I speak from experience and I am sure the Viper Wizard will ditto what I say here.
  • As for the training from the manufacturer ~ The dealer pays that. I mean the schooling, the travel, which is normally held 3 hours away (one way) from my dealership, the lodging, food and fuel for my employee. I pay for that. More times than not, I supply the employee with a vehicle for the trip. Then you have to consider my loss of that employee's time while away from the dealership. And by the way, their pay goes on.
  • As for the promotional materials ~ The dealer pays for those as well...every single banner, brochure, sign, poster, etc. The signs that hang out front, be it, "5 Star", "Chrysler", "Dodge", "Jeep", whatever the case may be, we are accessed a monthly fee for those as well. As for the maintenance of those signs, Chrysler sends a company around to change light bulbs, clean them, etc. , however, those times are few and far between. The big sign in front of my dealership still has "Plymouth" on it. Plymouth has been gone from their line for seven years. What does that tell you?
  • As for the dealer link system - That system is now via the internet and the dealer pays a monthly fee for that. If the link goes down due to technical problems on Chrysler's behalf, we can't order parts, do warranty claims, order cars, receive customer rebates, etc. Who gets angry when they can't get a part ordered and takes it out on ME ? Mr. customer! :grumble:
  • The dealer is shipped special tools on a monthly basis from Miller Tools that the dealer is obligated to pay for. Nine times out of ten, some of those tools will never be used.
  • When a new model is produced that model usually requires its own set of tools. Take for instance the "Chrysler Crossfire", if a dealer chooses not to purchase the special tools at $10,000.00, they can not order that new model. That also brings me to the "Chrysler Pacifica", special tools were required for that vehicle as well and now both the Crossfire and the Pacifica will no longer be made.
The bottom line is, with the new ownership and management, Chrysler Motors LLC, and its dealers might be on the road to recovery, but we all have a long way to go. Jim Press is a positive individual and in time he can turn this company around.:)

Let it be known that I am not a disgruntled dealer, however, I do get annoyed when someone makes statements about something that they don't deal with on a daily basis and they obviously know little about.:curse:

And by the way, if you are interested in purchasing a small dealership in rural Pennsylvania, send me an email. I look forward to hearing from you!!!
 
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