Viper vs Z06
- Thread starter 98MODMTR
- Start date
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Your a few days late 
98MODMTR
Enthusiast
Your a few days late
direct me to the orginal thread please!
Ranger
Enthusiast
Think that you might want to add..."assuming equal drivers," which seldom is the case in the Z06 vs Viper passes I've personally witnessed at the drags.
Ranger
Don't need to add it. We're talking about cars here, not drivers.
My miata with me in it would beat my Viper with my wife in it. Why? because she can't drive a stick. Point is, if you want to start adding excuses, the arguments never stop. Stick with the facts and with reality and there shouldn't be any arguments. The Viper IS the fastest car. Period.
My miata with me in it would beat my Viper with my wife in it. Why? because she can't drive a stick. Point is, if you want to start adding excuses, the arguments never stop. Stick with the facts and with reality and there shouldn't be any arguments. The Viper IS the fastest car. Period.
Ranger
Enthusiast
I guess I just wasn't clear. Sorry.
I think it's fairly evident that in a severely traction limited car, the driver makes a big difference. If you disagree, please say so.
Viper is a very fast car. So is a Z06. I've never lost to a near stock Viper at the drags. But I drive my Z06 fairly well, having accumulated a bunch of 11 second time slips bone stock on stock tires, as have some others.
So, a stock Viper owner needs to bring his A-game, if he/she runs a well driven stock Z06. Ditto mod-for-mod.
Ranger
I think it's fairly evident that in a severely traction limited car, the driver makes a big difference. If you disagree, please say so.
Viper is a very fast car. So is a Z06. I've never lost to a near stock Viper at the drags. But I drive my Z06 fairly well, having accumulated a bunch of 11 second time slips bone stock on stock tires, as have some others.
So, a stock Viper owner needs to bring his A-game, if he/she runs a well driven stock Z06. Ditto mod-for-mod.
Ranger
Martin D
Enthusiast
That is why I like to do Roll-on races. That really proves which car is faster. I have heard of your accomplishments Ranger. I am a Friend of Optics...
Regards,
Regards,
Mike 99ACR
Enthusiast
You need to come to the next Vette shootout in Bradenton, FL. Theres usually 100 Vettes including several Z06's and none ever run under 12.5 unless mods and tires. Two years in a row same results. You may want to go and give lessons.
98MODMTR
Enthusiast
I was just going to suggest the same.
Russ M
Enthusiast
LoL,
The only lessons he could possibly be giving is how to find a track which hands out times slips based on a stop watch. Like everyone else on this plannet I have never seen any stock zo6 corvette even come close to 11's.
I dont even think the vettes hp/weight ratio will generate an 11 sec pass under perfect conditions, so you may want to attend a track that has properly tunned timing equipment/NOT on a downhill grade/ and last but not least not located 3000 feet below sea level.
The only lessons he could possibly be giving is how to find a track which hands out times slips based on a stop watch. Like everyone else on this plannet I have never seen any stock zo6 corvette even come close to 11's.
I dont even think the vettes hp/weight ratio will generate an 11 sec pass under perfect conditions, so you may want to attend a track that has properly tunned timing equipment/NOT on a downhill grade/ and last but not least not located 3000 feet below sea level.
Ranger
Enthusiast
I normally run at Maryland International Raceway, the only IHRA track in my area. As you may know the NHRA limit is 12.000. Under that and you get the boot. MIR is annual host of the IHRA nationals for this region. So their timing equipment is certified.
My 02 Z06 has a best pass bone stock(zero mod; and stock original tires) of 11.81. Slip It has a bunch of passes in the 11.8s and 11.9s.
I had the opportunity to run my my car (bone stock EXCEPT drag radials and a cold air intake; 363 rwhp and 350 rwtq) at one of Jason Heffner's private track rentals (Maryland International Raceway; November 15, 2002) for some of his Viper customers and others.
So we had a bunch of Gen 1 and 2 Vipers at the same track, same day, plus my Z06. Great time. Great bunch of car enthusiasts.
Density Altitude throughout the day was 400 to 500'. Air temp was high 50s-low 60s. Humidity was 50-60%.
So what did my Z06 run that day? Here are 15 runs in sequence with the 60' times included:
11.568 @ 117.94 on a 1.684 60'
11.651 @ 118.44 on a 1.728 60'
11.755 @ 117.80 on a 1.805 60'
11.707 @ 119.46 on a 1.704 60'
11.640 @ 118.16 on a 1.693 60'
11.715 @ 117.73 on a 1.752 60'
11.700 @ 118.04 on a 1.743 60'
11.778 @ 119.46 on a 1.797 60'
11.748 @ 119.38 on a 1.777 60'
11.726 @ 117.53 on a 1.774 60'
11.719 @ 117.49 on a 1.722 60'
11.742 @ 116.97 on a 1.756 60'
11.763 @ 116.87 on a 1.735 60'
11.766 @ 117.05 on a 1.776 60'
11.786 @ 116.99 on a 1.756 60'
My car was getting pretty heat-soaked as the day wore on and the launch surface got progressively "run-off." Jason can vouch this. Also Jamie Furman, who owns a blue GTS.
BTW, with the DRs and CAI the car has 75 passes in the 11.7s or better with a best of 11.55 Slip. (Jamie Furman witnessed this pass). My best trap is 120.54...at DA of 62 feet. Slip
I admire your Vipers very much, and they are very fast, especially in the hands of the right driver. Conversely, a Z06 can be very fast too with the right driver doing the launch and shifts.
Safe racing to all of you.
Ranger
My 02 Z06 has a best pass bone stock(zero mod; and stock original tires) of 11.81. Slip It has a bunch of passes in the 11.8s and 11.9s.
I had the opportunity to run my my car (bone stock EXCEPT drag radials and a cold air intake; 363 rwhp and 350 rwtq) at one of Jason Heffner's private track rentals (Maryland International Raceway; November 15, 2002) for some of his Viper customers and others.
So we had a bunch of Gen 1 and 2 Vipers at the same track, same day, plus my Z06. Great time. Great bunch of car enthusiasts.
Density Altitude throughout the day was 400 to 500'. Air temp was high 50s-low 60s. Humidity was 50-60%.
So what did my Z06 run that day? Here are 15 runs in sequence with the 60' times included:
11.568 @ 117.94 on a 1.684 60'
11.651 @ 118.44 on a 1.728 60'
11.755 @ 117.80 on a 1.805 60'
11.707 @ 119.46 on a 1.704 60'
11.640 @ 118.16 on a 1.693 60'
11.715 @ 117.73 on a 1.752 60'
11.700 @ 118.04 on a 1.743 60'
11.778 @ 119.46 on a 1.797 60'
11.748 @ 119.38 on a 1.777 60'
11.726 @ 117.53 on a 1.774 60'
11.719 @ 117.49 on a 1.722 60'
11.742 @ 116.97 on a 1.756 60'
11.763 @ 116.87 on a 1.735 60'
11.766 @ 117.05 on a 1.776 60'
11.786 @ 116.99 on a 1.756 60'
My car was getting pretty heat-soaked as the day wore on and the launch surface got progressively "run-off." Jason can vouch this. Also Jamie Furman, who owns a blue GTS.
BTW, with the DRs and CAI the car has 75 passes in the 11.7s or better with a best of 11.55 Slip. (Jamie Furman witnessed this pass). My best trap is 120.54...at DA of 62 feet. Slip
I admire your Vipers very much, and they are very fast, especially in the hands of the right driver. Conversely, a Z06 can be very fast too with the right driver doing the launch and shifts.
Safe racing to all of you.
Ranger
Ranger
Enthusiast
Thanks, Martin D. It has been fun watching Optic's progress through many, many cars.
I agree. Roll-ons, particularly from beyond 60 mph...No launch...Save one or two shifts...eliminate most of the driver difference. Still have one or two shifts and shift points.
Ranger
Ranger
Enthusiast
Would love to run at Bradenton, but it's a little far for me.
On the last day our club went drag racing at MIR in MD, four Z06s were running 11s on drag radials and I was in the 11.8s on stock tires. As you know, FL is DA challenged. And even Bradenton's famous track prep won't surmount the effects of bad air.
At Jason Heffner's track rental that I described in my post above, the Vipers were running low-to-mid 12s on stock tires. Jason did manage to get one GTS with roller rockers, smooth tubes, intake, exhaust and DRs to 11.38. Mine (DR and cold-air intake) ran 11.56. That's pretty close. But Jason had more mods.
Again I admire Vipers and all fast cars. And I respect drivers that have learned to harness the power these cars have.
Ranger
Do you have any idea how many times I have heard "bone stock" only to find out it wasn't?
If, however, your times are accurate, you should really step up to a Viper. You would probably run 10's all day long in a stock Viper if you can get an 11 out of a "bone stock" vette.
If, however, your times are accurate, you should really step up to a Viper. You would probably run 10's all day long in a stock Viper if you can get an 11 out of a "bone stock" vette.
AG98RT10
Viper Owner
Gotta agree with cratica. The thing I notice about Ranger's posted slips are they all have exceptional 60's. The guy just knows how to drive better than most folks in Vettes. Ranger, do you power shift that Z too?
The point is that one exceptional driver can push a Z into very good times (MPH not that high, though), and that doesn't make that model competitive with a Viper that has 50-100 more RWHP, thus demanding more from the driver to get the better ET. (I'll bet the Vipers have higher MPH across the board, though.)
Nothing wrong with Vettes - they're nice small block sports cars, just not in the same league as Vipers.
The point is that one exceptional driver can push a Z into very good times (MPH not that high, though), and that doesn't make that model competitive with a Viper that has 50-100 more RWHP, thus demanding more from the driver to get the better ET. (I'll bet the Vipers have higher MPH across the board, though.)
Nothing wrong with Vettes - they're nice small block sports cars, just not in the same league as Vipers.
Ranger
Enthusiast
Thanks, AG98RT10. My point is that a traction-limited car, such as a Viper or a Z06, is HARD to drive well. If you hammer it, the tires will spin. Avoiding that takes proper techniques and a lot of practice.
Some owners simply want to possess a vehicle that is very fast, whether or not they can personally wring that performance out of the car. Like many, though, I want to find the limits of my car. That puts us on a different path to experimentation and relentless practice.
As for powershifting, at the track, I normally powershift to 4th gear (101 in a Z06) but don't do the shifts to 2d or 3d, except when track prep is exceptional. This is because, even on drag radials, the Z06 will spin the tires on powershifts to 2d and 3d, and spinning there hurts ETs.
For 60 foot times, I've spent a lot of time experimenting, to figure an ideal launch rpm and the clutch release. Anyone can do that and improve their launch, but few have the patience.
Most folks go the mod route to lowering their times. Instead, I've chosen to figure out how to reduce my times by improving my driving.
Best to all. Safe racing.
Ranger
VIPER VS Z06
Stock stock Viper Wins
Modified Same mods Viper Wins
Stock modified Toss up
Stock highly mod Z06 Wins
Stock/AVG driver Stock/AVG driver Viper Wins
Stock/poor driver Stock/PRO driver Toss up
Stock/PRO driver Stock/PRO driver Viper Wins
Stock/PRO driver Stock/poor driver Viper Wins
Stock/poor driver Stock/poor driver Viper Wins
etc....
ALL known road tests by professionals, same day, same
condition, same driver.... VIPER WINS 100%
Of course you can substitue the Z06 column with nearly
any decent performing car such as a cobra, 996, etc. What more is left to say???
Stock stock Viper Wins
Modified Same mods Viper Wins
Stock modified Toss up
Stock highly mod Z06 Wins
Stock/AVG driver Stock/AVG driver Viper Wins
Stock/poor driver Stock/PRO driver Toss up
Stock/PRO driver Stock/PRO driver Viper Wins
Stock/PRO driver Stock/poor driver Viper Wins
Stock/poor driver Stock/poor driver Viper Wins
etc....
ALL known road tests by professionals, same day, same
condition, same driver.... VIPER WINS 100%
Of course you can substitue the Z06 column with nearly
any decent performing car such as a cobra, 996, etc. What more is left to say???
Ranger
Enthusiast
Let's try this.
Have you ever run your Viper at the drag strip?
If you have, please post your slip and state your mods.
Ranger
Mike 99ACR
Enthusiast
I understand what your saying is YOU are the best Z06 driver there is so, YOU can get these times out of the Z06 and noone from all the magazines and tests of several runs can. Only because noone has ever seen anyone else do it with 100% stock Z06 makes it questionable.
I think someone should loan you a stock Viper and allow you to practice with it as well and run on the same track and conditions. With 45 more hp you would probably run a 11.4 and beat the existing 11.7 best stock Viper with factory tires run.
Nothing against Z06's I like them and there a good bang for buck and would be my 2ND choice but, they just don't have the same feel, appeal, as a Viper and there a dime a dozen.
I think someone should loan you a stock Viper and allow you to practice with it as well and run on the same track and conditions. With 45 more hp you would probably run a 11.4 and beat the existing 11.7 best stock Viper with factory tires run.
Nothing against Z06's I like them and there a good bang for buck and would be my 2ND choice but, they just don't have the same feel, appeal, as a Viper and there a dime a dozen.
Ranger
Enthusiast
I certainly am not saying that I am the best driver, and I have never said that here or anywhere else.
What I have said and done is to practice a lot and then meticulously document what a Z06 driven by someone with ample seat-time can do. And, I should add, other Z06 owners have run in the 11s bone-stock, not just me.
I'm simply making a rather obvious point that anyone who has ever made timed runs in a fast car has learned. And that is...the it takes a driver to get peak performance out of a traction-limited car, especially one with a manual tranny. Most owners of fast cars never invest the time needed to master the beast. Those that don't will usually be beaten by "slower cars" with a better driver.
That concept is far from dissing Vipers, their owners, or the times they run.
Ranger
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Ranger,
The Z06 is an awesome ride, but I still don't understand the point you're trying to make? Of course a slightly slower car with a better driver could beat a faster car with a so-so driver, especially in a 1/4 mile race. A first grader has that much deductive reasoning. But on average, with equal drivers, a GTS is a good bit faster than a Z06. To say it isn't would be ignorant of the truth. Personally, I enjoy hearing about 25-150 MPH races where the launch/traction is a less a factor. I feel this is more a measure of a car's street performance, at least in a straight line. And I know from first hand experience that a stock Viper will dominate a stock Z06 in this contest big-time. On average, the Viper GTS will reach 150 2+ seconds quicker - which adds up to football fields at those speeds. Mile runs are also a cool test. 1/4 mile racing is fun, and it can measure performance to an extent, but does not correlate to real-world performance as much as you think.... The MPH does give more insight, though.
The Z06 is an awesome ride, but I still don't understand the point you're trying to make? Of course a slightly slower car with a better driver could beat a faster car with a so-so driver, especially in a 1/4 mile race. A first grader has that much deductive reasoning. But on average, with equal drivers, a GTS is a good bit faster than a Z06. To say it isn't would be ignorant of the truth. Personally, I enjoy hearing about 25-150 MPH races where the launch/traction is a less a factor. I feel this is more a measure of a car's street performance, at least in a straight line. And I know from first hand experience that a stock Viper will dominate a stock Z06 in this contest big-time. On average, the Viper GTS will reach 150 2+ seconds quicker - which adds up to football fields at those speeds. Mile runs are also a cool test. 1/4 mile racing is fun, and it can measure performance to an extent, but does not correlate to real-world performance as much as you think.... The MPH does give more insight, though.
opnwide
Enthusiast
Ranger,
If you ever come to our Vette-Viper shootouts in Texas, let me know. I'd like you to drive my car. My best time is 11.8 at 119mph, and I **** at drag racing. I smoke the tires hitting 2nd and 3rd, and bog it off the line to avoid tire spin for 1/8 mile. Don't be so modest! I think you really could be the best ZO6 racer out there! I usually smoke those cars pretty good, but you would certainly school me with those times.
If you ever come to our Vette-Viper shootouts in Texas, let me know. I'd like you to drive my car. My best time is 11.8 at 119mph, and I **** at drag racing. I smoke the tires hitting 2nd and 3rd, and bog it off the line to avoid tire spin for 1/8 mile. Don't be so modest! I think you really could be the best ZO6 racer out there! I usually smoke those cars pretty good, but you would certainly school me with those times.
So we all agree finally.
- It takes a good driver to get the best times out of a fast car.
- A good driver will always get faster times out of a faster car.
- The Viper is a faster car than a z06.
- A good driver can make a slower car appear faster than a faster car with a slower driver!!!
- It takes a good driver to get the best times out of a fast car.
- A good driver will always get faster times out of a faster car.
- The Viper is a faster car than a z06.
- A good driver can make a slower car appear faster than a faster car with a slower driver!!!
People with slower cars like to talk about driver skills and mods while people with the fastest cars like to talk about their cars. I call it the "yea, but..." syndrome.
yea, but... "if I put a triple *** model pro joe _____, I can take your $80k sports car"
yea, but... "if I just put drag radials on my bone stock ____, I can take your viper"
yea, but... "if I'm a better driver and you **** at driving, my ____ can take your viper"
yea, but... "if I spend just $____, I can take your viper"
Yea, but... "if my grandma drives your viper, and I have 93 octane, plus a 200 shot, on a downhill track, with a 37 knot wind behind me, I can beat your best timeslip"
yea, but... "I'm a better driver, so that makes all ____ cars faster than every viper."
yea, but...
yea, but... "if I put a triple *** model pro joe _____, I can take your $80k sports car"
yea, but... "if I just put drag radials on my bone stock ____, I can take your viper"
yea, but... "if I'm a better driver and you **** at driving, my ____ can take your viper"
yea, but... "if I spend just $____, I can take your viper"
Yea, but... "if my grandma drives your viper, and I have 93 octane, plus a 200 shot, on a downhill track, with a 37 knot wind behind me, I can beat your best timeslip"
yea, but... "I'm a better driver, so that makes all ____ cars faster than every viper."
yea, but...
Ranger
Enthusiast
Cratica,
You seem to have overlooked my question of you. Please answer my question. No relevant data is in your signature.
Ranger
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
EVEN if i think my Viper would beat (could beat) a Ferrari, or Lambo, the last thing I would do is try to convince them. They have thier niche, I have mine and Z06's are in a different one. If the guys who can afford $300K Lambos were only looking for fastest, they would have it. and EVEN with a 500hp C6 Z06, it still ain't a Viper, just like my Viper aint no Enzo.
Arrogance is not having nice things and being proud of them, arrogance is having something inferior and believing you are still superior. Watch the tryouts from American Idol if you don't believe in delusional people.
Like the guy in the Camry who tried to race me yesterday....idiot.
Arrogance is not having nice things and being proud of them, arrogance is having something inferior and believing you are still superior. Watch the tryouts from American Idol if you don't believe in delusional people.
Like the guy in the Camry who tried to race me yesterday....idiot.
Ranger
Enthusiast
Where this all began was the general assertion that all stock Vipers are faster than all stock Z06s.
I simply made the point that the driver makes a big difference in the actual performance the cars attain. It seems from the replies that some here disagree with that, but not all. So that is some progress.
I also provided real world data on 15 runs my car made as the only Z06 at a Jason Heffner-sponsored track rental; slips and eye-witness accounts from Jason and Jamie Furman were also in the links I provided. None of the near stock Vipers there (8-9 of them) beat any of my times that day. From that experience, I DO NOT generalize that the Z06 is FASTER or BETTER. But it did reinforce my view that (1) the Viper is a difficult car to launch and shift without overpowering traction, and none of the owners, other than Jason and Jamie, had mastered that; and (2) in person, the Viper owners were a great bunch of guys and car enthusiasts.
Ranger
