What kind of pictures are acceptable?????

[Janni]

MarkO -
I've held my tongue long enough. I am only speaking for myself (not the moderators and not the VCA) and I am donning the nasty flame suit - but here goes.

They are deleted because they are offensive to 50% of the population of the world. They are removed because its not the message that the VCA wants to bring forward if / when Pamela Nienkamp (sp?) visits the site (she's now in charge of Marketing for Viper) or when the new CAAP plant manager logs on (she's a woman, too). How'd you like to meet these wonen who have become very sucessful in the Viper world knowing that YOU think of women as objects and no more than a set of boobs - they oughtta just love you - and you should be real proud. They are removed because they are someones wife / girlfriend / daughter. They are removed because they are in poor taste and they are ******.

There - said it - feel better.

 

[Janni]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JMcGuire:
I know huge numbers of women who take no offense at this kind of material. I've married a couple of them.

In fact, I know a lot of women who LIKE this kind of material. It's not exactly uncommon.

Sure I won't convince you, but you can't say with a straight face that it's offensive to all women, because it isn't. A highly vocal minority is the best I'd grant you. It's probably more accurate to say that most women think it's just stupid or silly, and some small numbers either flatly don't mind or actually like it. Anything else is just overstating the case to lend false credibility to your personal opinion.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


And to the other relevant quote from MarkO assuming that I say ALL WOMEN object.

Take a better look at what I wrote. I said 50% - if I meant all women I would have said all women (more like 54%, by the way...) and I know you folks find this amazing, but there may be men who find this offensive, too.

And I know some women like this stuff (I may be one, but you would not know that...) but its probably tasteful "******" stuff not the degrading Tuna entitled thread with the woman holding the dolphin car.

I really don't understand why people think its perfectly acceptable to degrade a sizable portion of the population - you could never do this to a religious group, a different race or ethnic group, so why is it OK to post this? DO you guys have daughters? Is this the message that you want to send them? "Sure sweetheart, you can be or do anything you want when you grow up. As long as you have huge breasts and show naked pictures to your friends to post on the internet, because that's what Daddy likes."

I know I am not going to change your minds and I don't want to start this battle. So PLEASE don't turn this into something personal. The fact remains, this is the Viper Club site. Not the **** women site. Trust me, it's the internet - there are LOTS of other places to go for that stuff. Just because we have an off topic section doesn't mean we need to post **** or rude stuff. There are lots of other message boards that are well run and entertaining that don't post this type of stuff, and personally I think they are a lot more respectful toward women.

 

[Janni]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JMcGuire:
In closing, I have to make a final point, and then I'm done, because I've seen these arguments before, and they're a waste of time. Sad to say, rationality doesn't play into it, it's strictly a matter of personal taste and which person owns the keys to the kingdom. But I feel this point is important:

Your conclusion that my tastes imply disrespect is what makes it personal, not anything I've said.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Jon,
You are right, this is a matter of personal opinion. My comment was merely a pre-emptive strike to avoid name calling (not from you), etc...

I cannot tell you what your intent is. So therefore, I cannot tell if you mean to be disrespectful. However, intent is not what we base these thing upon. If it were, we could all say / do anything we wanted under the guise that we "did not mean to be disrespectful"... I actually am being rational, and I don;t hold the keys to the kingdom, although as a VCA member,I think my opinion matters, too. And if we have to err, it should be in the side of NOT being offensive. (Again, this is the VIPER CLUB site - we are NOT talking about freedom of speech issues here. You can post pics like that on your site without being forced to remove them.)

I find the semi-****, or **** and photoshopped fishies, smilie faces, dolphin cars, stereotypical big breasted women photos disrespectful here. (NOT ALL PHOTOS, and NOT IN THE PROPER CONTEXT / SITE) I don't think that anyone would defend your right to post patronizing stereotypical pictures that were racial or ethnic in nature (REGARDLESS of your INTENT or what you IMPLIED), so I don't see how this is somehow acceptable.

That's it from me, too.

 

[BigsViper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janni:

I find the semi-****, or **** and photoshopped fishies, smilie faces, dolphin cars, stereotypical big breasted women photos disrespectful here.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I certainly found the pictures of the dolphin car offensive, but disrespectful??? To whom?? Daimler Chrysler? Other R/T owners?

(A meager attempt to lighten things up a bit here...

)

Even though I am sometimes the recipient of said censorship I know that trying to decide what to nuke is a tough call, especially for an unpaid volunteer. If I don't agree with a call I can gripe and email as Mark has done here, but when it comes right down to it this is a BBS run by volunteers and they get to make judgements sometimes because they can. If we were paying big bucks to run this site, instead of a small percentage of our smallish dues), Then we could run it like a business and hire and fire the officers and the staff and the one with the most shares or the loudest whine would rule the day.

Since we aren't set up that way our only option if we don't like how things are done is to boycott the board. Some of us probably would not be missed

There are other car boards with varying degrees of vulgarity and I do check them out sometimes. However I spend the most time here (relatively) for a couple of reasons. 1) I have developed some friendships here and met several of the folks I spar with and choose to side with; 2) The higher standards here require some thought and effort to be witty yet not deleted. Other boards just outgross and outcurse each other, and it is mindless.

I laugh at a lot of Mark's stuff and I expect it to disappear (and yes, I have a daughter but I don't equate looking at those "joke" pictures to viewing ***********). If something is too extreme I click away from it, but unfortunately our kids are exposed to some of that junk just due to the nature of the web. I hope I've raised them to click out of it as well, if not that's my fault not the web's.

I think in some ways a double standard does exist, but that is the volunteer's prerogative. Don't like that? Keep griping and trying to change it and maybe you'll get "lucky" and receive the magic wand

(not me, thank you!) If you want to post some stuff that's over the edge try another site. I like the higher standards here and it's challenging to try and be witty while staying within that envelope.

Just keep up the good work on both sides and recognize that this debate will probably continue to pop up. Just don't take it too seriously (either side!!)

 

[pj]

For the record, I have three daughters.

Over the years there has probably be no one who has delt with this issue on this board more than myself (and I dont think I am being over dramatic when I say that!). I also do not believe that I have ever been treated differently than anyone else in regards to my posting (98% of which occured before being a volunteer!).

Not only have I worked with the VCA Board, but also with the editors of Viper Quarterly, in an effort to determine what would be acceptable material for the site and for their magazine. Obviously, different groups will have different opinions as to what is acceptable.

Lines change. What may have been acceptable at one point in time may no longer be acceptable. Jay and Tony will tell you were had this discussion every 6 months or so over the past 5 years.

As the site becomes more popular, the need to reevaluate those standards occurs on a regular basis. And as the demographics of the site changes (especially when we want to encourage more women Viper owner participation); that needs to be taken into consideration as well.

One thing to keep in mind; the context of the thread and the subject matter being discussed is just as important as the image itself.

No answers; just some observations from my perspective.

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Michael Pierce on 03-22-2002 at 02:03 PM</font>