What mods are needed for a Gen 2 to run with a Gen 3

[Shanedog]

I've been doing a ton of research lately trying to decide what year/model Viper I want to get. Obviously performance is a large factor for me, and I'm curious to know how much faster a Gen 3 is over a Gen 2. I know there is a 55 hp difference from a Gen 2 to a Gen 3, and I am curious to know what performance modifications would need to be done to a Gen 2 to run with a stock Gen 3?

Thanks for your input

 

[Steve-Indy]

Define "run with". For a road course, big brakes on Gen II would be a good start.

In the horsepower wars..."the sky is the limit"...as long as you realize that many have observed that hp is inversely proportional to an engines's useful "life".

 

[Shanedog]

Define "run with". For a road course, big brakes on Gen II would be a good start.

In the horsepower wars..."the sky is the limit"...as long as you realize that many have observed that hp is inversely proportional to an engines's useful "life".

I'm just talking about straight line performance. Basically, if each car had a driver that was the exact same skill level, on a quarter mile track, what mods would be needed on the Gen 2 to run with a Gen 3.

Would smooth tubes, filters, headers, and exhaust be enough?

 

[Russ M]

A typical Gen 2 will dyno around 400-410hp at the wheels stock, same for a Gen 3 is around 420-430.

So if you add say a Borla/Belanger exhaust on a 99 or older gen 2 with no cats you should be good for around 430rwhp. If its a 2000+ Gen 2 then you will need headers as well to make similar power.

On a road course you will need better brakes Tom's 40mm rear upgrade do the job very well.

But most likely all you need is the driver mod, the cars are so close stock to stock in the end the better driver will always win.

 

[Dom426h]

Would smooth tubes, filters, headers, and exhaust be enough?

Yes, With just K&N/Smoothtubes, headers&fullexhaust you can put down more power on a dyno over a Stock Gen3.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Performance wise,they both can be made mild to wild. If your talking stock vs. stock, see above. Both can have either a S/C or NOS bolted on for better performance, but only the stock Gen III has world class brakes. The 2001-2002 have ok brakes with it's ABS, and the 2000 and earlierneed at least Tom's Big Piston upgrade for better stopping performance. I am over 800RWHP and well over 1000RWTQ on my stock block 1999.

 

[Shanedog]

I appreciate the reply's, your info is just what I was looking for.

Hopefully if I end up with a Gen 2 can find a good car with some mods already on it. Thanks again!

-Derek

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

gen III all the way, more upside than a gen II and looks better....

 

[Shanedog]

Performance wise,they both can be made mild to wild. If your talking stock vs. stock, see above. Both can have either a S/C or NOS bolted on for better performance, but only the stock Gen III has world class brakes. The 2001-2002 have ok brakes with it's ABS, and the 2000 and earlierneed at least Tom's Big Piston upgrade for better stopping performance. I am over 800RWHP and well over 1000RWTQ on my stock block 1999.

Whatever I end up buying will likely remain relatively unchanged after I buy it (I may do a few things such as intake/exhaust/tune over time) but part of the deal (yes, I had to make a deal with the wife to get the green light on getting a viper) was to find a car that I like and to leave it alone.

The last car I had (Factory Five Shelby Cobra) I spent tons of money and half my life in the garage trying to squeeze every last hp out of that 408. If it was up to me I'd buy 96-99 or 03-05 and throw a Paxton on it....but the chances of her letting me are slim to none. Finding a clean, well put together modded car would be ideal.

 

[Shanedog]

gen III all the way, more upside than a gen II and looks better....

That is what the wife would prefer, but price is a concern of mine as well. I have my eye on one Gen 3 in particular but I'm waiting 4-6 weeks to pull the trigger on something, and who knows if it will still be available.

 

[viper k]

if u want to run with or faster then gen 3 in 1/4 mile put a set of 355 gears and bring it to life

 

[Dom426h]

if u want to run with or faster then gen 3 in 1/4 mile put a set of 355 gears and bring it to life

got #'s for him?

how much time is 355's gonna save him over stock gears in the 1/4mile?

 

[Steve-Indy]

Shanedog, that sounds like a well chosen plan...especially as one really doesn't want to become an economic slave to a depreciating "asset"...at least, not at first!!!

I have to say, of ALL of the cars we have owned, Vipers are THE MOST FUN. Every time that I have taken one out for "a drive", I have NEVER returned disappointed...but ALWAYS returned with a big, silly smile on my normally wrinkled face. AND, that feeling is achieved whether I drive a Gen I, II, III, or IV. A Viper is unique...and never boring!!!

I would suggest that you pick YOUR car carefully...getting whatever style you prefer...putting the emphasis on a solid base platform with a good history. Let your mods come as you choose.

If you want specific conservative suggestions, call me sometime... typist I'm not!!!

 

[Shanedog]

Shanedog, that sounds like a well chosen plan...especially as one really doesn't want to become an economic slave to a depreciating "asset"...at least, not at first!!!

I have to say, of ALL of the cars we have owned, Vipers are THE MOST FUN. Every time that I have taken one out for "a drive", I have NEVER returned disappointed...but ALWAYS returned with a big, silly smile on my normally wrinkled face. AND, that feeling is achieved whether I drive a Gen I, II, III, or IV. A Viper is unique...and never boring!!!

I would suggest that you pick YOUR car carefully...getting whatever style you prefer...putting the emphasis on a solid base platform with a good history. Let your mods come as you choose.

If you want specific conservative suggestions, cann me sometime...t pist I'm not!!!

Thanks Steve! As always, I appreciate your insight.

 

[viper k]

with stock gears i ran 12/20s in 1/4 mile with the 355 went 11/62

 

[viper k]

went 12.20 @119 mph stock 355 went 11.62 @122 mph

 

[hemihead]

gen III all the way, more upside than a gen II and looks better....

Especially if you want to get mistaken for a corvette.
If you want distinctive styling then Gen 1 or 2 all the way!

 

[Twister]

A typical Gen 2 will dyno around 400-410hp at the wheels stock, same for a Gen 3 is around 420-430.

So if you add say a Borla/Belanger exhaust on a 99 or older gen 2 with no cats you should be good for around 430rwhp. If its a 2000+ Gen 2 then you will need headers as well to make similar power.

On a road course you will need better brakes Tom's 40mm rear upgrade do the job very well.

But most likely all you need is the driver mod, the cars are so close stock to stock in the end the better driver will always win.

This isnt true at all...While I agree that a gen2 will dyno 400-410 rwhp..The 420-430 rwhp for the srt10 would be the lowest dynoing SRT10's in the country..

A very low dyno for a SRT10 is 435 rwhp..Most are 440-450 rwhp with some hitting 460 rwhp....

I made a list of all srt10 dynos a few years back..Ill find it

 

[LifeIsGood]

gen III ... looks better....

Wow! Really? That's definitely an opinion .

 

[goldcup]

GenII 3' cats and catback 3.55's three years in a row dynoed at 437.
Lower than the GenIII every time but not by alot and not enough to trade the best lookin Viper ever made!!!!

 

[Red Snake]

gen III all the way, more upside than a gen II and looks better....

No way a Gen III looks better than GTS. And with forged internals a Gen II can mod WAY more (cheaper) than a cream puff Gen III.

 

[Twister]

No way a Gen III looks better than GTS. And with forged internals a Gen II can mod WAY more (cheaper) than a cream puff Gen III.

Oh Ohhhh..I should have never told you how awesome that pics was..Now your gonna use it for every Gen2 vs gen3 debate

 

[PhoenixGTS]

Hopefully if I end up with a Gen 2 can find a good car with some mods already on it.

Sent you a pm

 

[Twister]

now im gonna awnswer the op's question in full detail..I have owned both and tested both ( both in red if that matters he he eh)...

The average gen2 will dyno 395 rwhp at the lowest and 415 rwhp at the highest..405 rwhp is a very safe number

The GTS ACR comes with smooth tubes and KN filters from the factory..It dynos 405-425 rwhp on average..415 rwhp is a very safe number..

This is what stock SRT10 Vipers dyno..I made this list a few years back when I was curious before purchasing a gen3..

They are in the order that I found them on Viper alley and then VCA......


-Import Image...456/518

-FiskeGTS..........455/481 STD

-Tito..................468/493

-Kansas............452/503 SAE

-ViperSRT..........445/480

-Vmotorsports...430/455

-Cory.................459/484

-Larry................447/476

-Tim Sutherland.455/484 SAE

-Dan sutherland.441/472 SAE

-Anthony Boutt..441/457 SAE

-Mike and Julie...425???

-Joseph Dell customer...452/490 SAE

-Ooomph............449/489

-ViperX...............450/490

-Viperbilliam.......425/480

-Bandit118th.....451/492

-Valantine Viper.442/482

-BlackSRTCoupe.457/481 SAE

-Ulllose..............438??? SAE

-BobK................434/465

-GR8ASP...........445???

-1TONY1...........437/482

-Fadi.................437/475

-ViperNM..........430/475

-Y2K5SRT.........464/504

-VNMOUS.........434???

-SRT10DYNODAY.459
...........................447
...........................452
...........................464
...........................435
...........................436
...........................420
...........................436

-KaiSRT10...........439/470

-Viper Ruselli......433/468

-PMBNY..............437/504

-DSR207............423???

-SRT10LEN........420/510

-DawgZsnake...437/466 SAE

-Cajun Viper.....447/490

-John Myrick.....445/483

-Frank03SR......440/487

-SirFang...........418???

A good average number for the stock SRT10 is 440 rwhp ( out of the 46 I found 25 of them were 440 rwhp or higher)



OK so thats..

GTS/RT10=405 rwhp
GTS ACR=415 rwhp
SRT10=440 rwhp

with that said a well driven......

GTS/RT10=119-120 mph trapp speeds
GTS ACR=120-121 mph trapp speeds
SRT10=121-122 mph trapp speeds

Despite haveing a rwhp advantage..The SRT10 is only 2 mph faster than a GTS/RT10 and 1 mph faster than a GTS ACR..

The SRt10 has larger rear tires at 19 inches vs 18 inches for the gen2 cars ..Soaking up a lil of it's steam...

Your gonna have exceptions..

people who run 121 mph in a stock GTS/RT10

people runnin 122 mph trapps in GTS ACR's

One guy claims 124 mph in a stock SRT10

like I said I tested them both...at the same location with the same timing gear with the same driver ( me) and on varying nights (75 runs for the 99RT10) around 30 runs for the SRT10


Bone stock RT10 was 115-116 mph

SRT10 with roller rockers and KN filters was 119-120 mph

RT10 with KN filters/smooth tubes was 116-117

RT10 with KN filters/smooth tubes/roller rockers was 117-118

RT10 with the above plus deleted cats was 119-120

SRT10 with roller rockers and KN filters plus no cats was 121-122

RT10 with all the above plus AEM tune was 121-122

So while I would give the SRT10 a 2 mph advantage over a GTS/RT10....Two mph shouldnt be enough to make a clear cut decision...The better driver will win between these cars at the strip

 

[viper k]

red snake well said nice looking viper GTS

 

[Red Snake]

red snake well said nice looking viper GTS

Oh Ohhhh..I should have never told you how awesome that pics was..Now your gonna use it for every Gen2 vs gen3 debate

Haha, thanks.

 

[Shanedog]

Sent you a pm

I got your PM...replied

 

[Shanedog]

Wow Twister...thanks for the info! Good stuff right there!

 

[Next Phase]

My stock GTS, 7k miles w/ smooth tubes put down 425 rwhp / 456 rwtq FWIW.

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I personally like the GTS looks best....

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[Shanedog]

My stock GTS, 7k miles w/ smooth tubes put down 425 rwhp / 456 rwtq FWIW.



I personally like the GTS looks best....

Very nice! I love the GTS too, so much so that I named my son so that his initials are GTS