which one? EBC - Hawk - PFC - Pagid

GTSjbud

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I have done a ton of research on this site and noticed a big variance in which brake pads to use for street use. Please advise what you are using and the pros and cons.

Here are the different brake pads that I am considering for my 96 GTS:

EBC Red, Hawk, PFC, Pagid

Thanks for all the input :2tu:
 

handyman_321

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I'm using the new EBC reds and they seem to work fine with my drilled and slotted rotors. The guys at Viper days did not recommend them for the track, but for the street I find they are fine.
 

Red Snake

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I have EBC Reds (the new Red with ceramic) on my GTS with EBC dimpled and slotted rotors. The EBC pads stop great on the street but they **** on the wheel dust.

I got piled on by a vendor here for stating that but I will tell everyone who asks because I have no bias. If low dust is a priority for you (as it is for me) look at another brand.;)
 

AZTVR

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Based on the thread that Red Snake started a few months ago, I've concluded that I would be buying the EBC Red's next. http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/612909-who-recommended-ebc-redstuffs.html
I'd suggest buying from one of our site supporters since they have a reputation for customer service that we don't always get from the lowest price internet vendors.

From all of the positive replies about the EBC Red's, I'd guess that Red Snake's negative experience was due to a manufacturing defect such as pads cured at the wrong temp or bad mix. I work in a production environment and there is no end of reasons why one batch can come out bad, yet get shipped anyway. It can happen in any industry.
 

RobZilla

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EBC Reds with the ceramic here also. I have a buddy running the Hawks with stock rotors. Ive got R1 drilled/slotted on mine. Great for street use. I would say at best the brake dust is moderate with the EBC Reds and a little higher with the Hawks.

There is no pad that is truely dustless. If you drive like a little old lady and use engine braking most of the time, yea you will have little to no dust. Take a Sunda fun drive around the town on a warm sunny day and you'll be sure to find dust on the fronts and a little on the rear no matter how great the pads are.

Best bet is to change the rotors along with the pads. Be sure to bed them in properly.

:usa:
 

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EBC Reds for street use, IMHO. [be very careful that you recieve the NEWER Ceramic formulation, not the old Carbon Metallic]I use them on my personal car as well as my Jeep SRT, they perform as advertised on both. I would estimate 25-40% of the dust accumulated compared to the stock pads, depending on driving and pad type based on the generation. The big bonus however, is how easy the brake dust is to wash off, it doesnt "stick" to the wheel finish like the dust from OEM's does.

In Stock:

https://www.viperspecialtyperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=46

https://www.viperspecialtyperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=47
 
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Red Snake

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Just want to clarify 2 points.

My dissatisfaction with the dust level has NOTHING to do with which vendor I used. I DEFINITELY have the CERMIC FORMULA, not the old formula. That was one the irritating notions that was spread in the other thread. NOT TRUE.:nono:

The new EBC REDS dust too much for my liking. It's that simple. You can't spin it any different by suggesting any vendor has anything to do with it. Not the case.

I used Performance Friction pads on my Ram SRT-10 and they DO NOT dust. THey also stopped just as well as the EBCs. I tried EBCs and PF pads on the truck and PFs were superior overall. If they made them for the Viper I would be using them, but they don't make them.;)


:rolleyes:


Based on the thread that Red Snake started a few months ago, I've concluded that I would be buying the EBC Red's next. http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/612909-who-recommended-ebc-redstuffs.html
I'd suggest buying from one of our site supporters since they have a reputation for customer service that we don't always get from the lowest price internet vendors.

From all of the positive replies about the EBC Red's, I'd guess that Red Snake's negative experience was due to a manufacturing defect such as pads cured at the wrong temp or bad mix. I work in a production environment and there is no end of reasons why one batch can come out bad, yet get shipped anyway. It can happen in any industry.

EBC Reds for street use, IMHO. [be very careful that you recieve the NEWER Ceramic formulation, not the old Carbon Metallic]I use them on my personal car as well as my Jeep SRT, they perform as advertised on both. I would estimate 25-40% of the dust accumulated compared to the stock pads, depending on driving and pad type based on the generation. The big bonus however, is how easy the brake dust is to wash off, it doesnt "stick" to the wheel finish like the dust from OEM's does.

In Stock:

https://www.viperspecialtyperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=46

https://www.viperspecialtyperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=47
 

RobZilla

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Your points are noted. Certainly a difference in vendor would not make a difference. Whomever suggested that was off the reservation. Brake pads will all give off dust. Based on driving pattern, weather rotor wear and pad wear, and many other factors, you would basically have to go through several pads to find one that you truely like. Having searched this in depth as well, the overwhelming favorite is EBC's.

This does not make EBC's better, or worse even, than any other pad. It basically means this is the brand and model that gives a substantial amount of performance with a general level of pad dust which is acceptable to the majority of those who use. Hence: most popular.

:usa:
 

AZTVR

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Just want to clarify 2 points.
My dissatisfaction with the dust level has NOTHING to do with which vendor I used. I DEFINITELY have the CERMIC FORMULA, not the old formula. That was one the irritating notions that was spread in the other thread. NOT TRUE.:nono:

The new EBC REDS dust too much for my liking. It's that simple. You can't spin it any different by suggesting any vendor has anything to do with it. Not the case.:rolleyes:

Hopefully you didn't misinterpret my input here. I believe that you had a problem with your pads. Most others reported satisfaction. Since you had reported that yours were indeed the current formulation, and that you had bedded them in correctly, that points me toward a problem with the batch that yours came from. I chase lot related problems in my job all the time.

My suggestion about the vendor wasn't meant to imply that you had bought from a second rate place. My suggestion only was meant to imply that if someone buys the EBC Reds from a site vendor, I'm betting that they would take them back if the pads performed unsatisfactorily, or else they wouldn't be posting here and on your previous thread about their satisfied customers.

There is also the problem of the variation of expectations of each customer. Perhaps everyone that has posted has had the same amount of dust that you had; but, they have lower expectations.
 

Viper Specialty

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Just want to clarify 2 points.

My dissatisfaction with the dust level has NOTHING to do with which vendor I used. I DEFINITELY have the CERMIC FORMULA, not the old formula. That was one the irritating notions that was spread in the other thread. NOT TRUE.:nono:

The new EBC REDS dust too much for my liking. It's that simple. You can't spin it any different by suggesting any vendor has anything to do with it. Not the case.

I used Performance Friction pads on my Ram SRT-10 and they DO NOT dust. THey also stopped just as well as the EBCs. I tried EBCs and PF pads on the truck and PFs were superior overall. If they made them for the Viper I would be using them, but they don't make them.;)


:rolleyes:

I too hope that you didnt pull any of the above from my post? I cant see how my post was at all directed towards yours.

But since we are on the topic, I certainly understand that you have the ceramic pads- However, I certainly cant liken your experience to the hundreds of others I have sold pads to. Regardless of them being right or wrong, they may still be defective- it would not be the first set of bad pads I have seen.

I WILL say however that EBC Reds on a TRUCK will make LOTS more dust than EBC Reds on a Viper. But, all things are relative- the trucks also make more dust with the OEM pads, so the percentage of loss is roughly the same.

Lastly, I will be in St. Louis in a few weeks, perhaps I can take a look at your car and tell you if it something out of the ordinary?
 

KenH

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I run the Hawk HPS w/ EBC rotors and I found there was very little dust after they were broken in. As good or better than the old formula EBC greens that I was running before. No experience with the EBC reds though.
 
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GTSjbud

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Hey fellas:

I really appreciate all the information. :headbang: I asked for real world experiences and that is exactly what I am getting. :2tu:

I also want to point out that it is not my intention to pit members against each other in this thread. Each of us have our own opinions and I respect that.

In any case, it sounds like Red Snake got a bad batch of EBC Reds. :omg:
I must say it is very thoughtful and professional of Dan to offer his assistance to Red Snake. Cheers to you Dan :beer:
 

cyaford

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Your points are noted. Certainly a difference in vendor would not make a difference.

I think what was meant was the fact that a supporting vendor would "make things right". I think everyone will agree that a mass produced part will never turn out perfect 100% of the time.

I bought EBC greens last year from JonB. The dust is way lower than the stock pads, but the stopping power is about the same. I plan on ordering a set of EBC reds along with the EBC poser rotors soon. :D Next step after that is ordering Tom's brake upgrade for 17" wheels.
 

Red Snake

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The problem is definitely with MY expectations. I have no problem with that assessment. As I said over and over, I have bought low dust pads before and they dusted alot less than the new EBC Red Ceramic formulation.

My pads are performing just like everyone elses. They just make too much dust for my liking. All of the EBC Reds that I have seen on other Vipers since I bought mine ALSO make too much dust for my liking.

I keep responding with this same info because everyone keeps saying, Oh there's something wrong with your formulation. Well, NO there's not. These pads just make too much dust for me.

I don't think I can be any clearer.:dunno:
 

Viper Specialty

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The problem is definitely with MY expectations. I have no problem with that assessment. As I said over and over, I have bought low dust pads before and they dusted alot less than the new EBC Red Ceramic formulation.

My pads are performing just like everyone elses. They just make too much dust for my liking. All of the EBC Reds that I have seen on other Vipers since I bought mine ALSO make too much dust for my liking.

I keep responding with this same info because everyone keeps saying, Oh there's something wrong with your formulation. Well, NO there's not. These pads just make too much dust for me.

I don't think I can be any clearer.:dunno:

Perhaps if you responded differently yourself, you would get different responses from others?

Your descriptions of the product performance suggest that they are very dusty, excessive even for their application, yet you openly admit to having overly high expectations. "****" was the word that you used specifically, indicating you feel there is a MAJOR problem, not just a difference of opinion- and I think I can say that everyone else here thinks that they are a pretty darn good compromise between power and dust for street use compared to what else is out there. If you have found something, for the VIPER, that you feel does the job BETTER, then spill the beans and we will openly listen. If not, you are simply comparing pad types between different cars and braking systems..... one of which doesnt exist. Different pad size, shape, rotor size, bias, compounds, etc ALL figure in to how dusty a pad will be, so you cant take an experience on one car and apply it directly to another without an example on the second car specifically.

I think if you posted this differently and just said "I feel they still dust a bit too much compared to some of my past experiences on other vehicles, I am still looking for another pad type to fit the Viper that meets my expectations." nobody would have continued to try and "help" your issues. Sorry if your experience is not up to par, but we are all only trying to help you out with what you seem to perceive as a major deficiency.
 
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AZTVR

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The problem is definitely with MY expectations. I have no problem with that assessment. As I said over and over, I have bought low dust pads before and they dusted alot less than the new EBC Red Ceramic formulation.

My pads are performing just like everyone elses. They just make too much dust for my liking. All of the EBC Reds that I have seen on other Vipers since I bought mine ALSO make too much dust for my liking.

I keep responding with this same info because everyone keeps saying, Oh there's something wrong with your formulation. Well, NO there's not. These pads just make too much dust for me.

I don't think I can be any clearer.:dunno:

Well said !!! I think that your post above totaly clarifies the whole situation, and is what I and others were not getting out of your previous posts, like Dan said. We assumed that you were implying that your dust levels were much higher than those of the people who recommended the EBC reds. That assumption was definitely a mistake on my part.

Short electronic text exchanges never seem to convey exactly what each person's thoughts are. Especially in cases of differences of opinion.

We are just looking for the best compromise between braking power and dust for non-track driving that is available on the market today for the Viper.
 

GTS Bruce

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I could care less , that is give a rats *** about dust. Wipe it off.Wash it off. Easy if the wheels are waxed and that goes for the car too. All I want is to stop as best is possible using a given size caliper and rotor. GTS Bruce
 

chimazo

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FWIW, I am running the Hawk HPC pads on the front, and they produce virtually no dust. I still have the factory pads on the rear and as small as they are and as little braking as they do, they still produce MUCH more dust than the Hawks.
 
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GTSjbud

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I have spoken with a bunch of members who use the Hawk pads and are extremely happy with them. At this point I have heard no complaints about the Hawks, only positive.

Having said that I will be purchasing the Hawks for my setup instead of the EBC's.

Thanks to all for the input :2tu:
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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I run EBC greens on my street Viper. It doesn't stop worth a crap but it doesn't dust up either. And since I only do a little spirited driving on the street I'm fine with them.

The track GTS is another story.
 

Red Snake

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Perhaps if you responded differently yourself, you would get different responses from others?

Your descriptions of the product performance suggest that they are very dusty, excessive even for their application, yet you openly admit to having overly high expectations. "****" was the word that you used specifically, indicating you feel there is a MAJOR problem, not just a difference of opinion- and I think I can say that everyone else here thinks that they are a pretty darn good compromise between power and dust for street use compared to what else is out there. If you have found something, for the VIPER, that you feel does the job BETTER, then spill the beans and we will openly listen. If not, you are simply comparing pad types between different cars and braking systems..... one of which doesnt exist. Different pad size, shape, rotor size, bias, compounds, etc ALL figure in to how dusty a pad will be, so you cant take an experience on one car and apply it directly to another without an example on the second car specifically.

I think if you posted this differently and just said "I feel they still dust a bit too much compared to some of my past experiences on other vehicles, I am still looking for another pad type to fit the Viper that meets my expectations." nobody would have continued to try and "help" your issues. Sorry if your experience is not up to par, but we are all only trying to help you out with what you seem to perceive as a major deficiency.

Okay, all good points. I'll give you that.

But for me, I go on a 45 minute drive and my wheels are dusted up and need cleaning. To me, that means they ****. I don't sugar coat things. That's just me.:2tu:
 

Brian GTS

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I am a street user and like to keep things clean (least dust). I evaluated EBC greens, EBC Reds, Porterfield RS-4s, and Hawks on my cars with a proper break-in on all (clean rotors and followed break-in procedure). The latest EBC greens are terrible for dust...maybe slightly less than stock. The old EBC green compound is super...too bad we can't still buy those.

The EBC Reds are better with dust than the greens, but I was not impressed. My reds also squeeled like a pig even after 500 miles. I couldn't wait to get them off.

The Porterfield RS-4 pads are very good as far as dust is concerned but do squeel occassionally.

The Hawk pads were also very good...no noise and very little dust.

Overall, for the LEAST dust, I would recommend Hawk or Porterfields. If your looking for clean, one of those is the way to go.
 

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The latest EBC greens are terrible for dust...maybe slightly less than stock. The old EBC green compound is super...too bad we can't still buy those.

The "new" EBC Green compound is NOT a good application for Vipers, I am surprised that they even still offer it. Yes, terrible for dust, and terrible stopping power.

The Old EBC Greens were great on dust, but had terrible stopping power. Personally, I wouldnt go back to them either.

The EBC Reds are better with dust than the greens, but I was not impressed. My reds also squeeled like a pig even after 500 miles. I couldn't wait to get them off.

A properly working set of reds should not make noise, and have almost identical dust levels to the old greens, with much better stopping power. I dont know when you tested, but there was a bad batch of EBC Reds back a few months ago, and they all seemed to squeel like crazy. You may have had a set of those. EBC has not admitted they had a bad run as of yet, but I had two sets produced at the same time, and they squeeled and dusted much more than usual, and swapping the pads out fixed the problem in both cases. Something wasnt right with the set of them, thats for sure.
 

Red Snake

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I am a street user and like to keep things clean (least dust). I evaluated EBC greens, EBC Reds, Porterfield RS-4s, and Hawks on my cars with a proper break-in on all (clean rotors and followed break-in procedure). The latest EBC greens are terrible for dust...maybe slightly less than stock. The old EBC green compound is super...too bad we can't still buy those.

The EBC Reds are better with dust than the greens, but I was not impressed. My reds also squeeled like a pig even after 500 miles. I couldn't wait to get them off.

The Porterfield RS-4 pads are very good as far as dust is concerned but do squeel occassionally.

The Hawk pads were also very good...no noise and very little dust.

Overall, for the LEAST dust, I would recommend Hawk or Porterfields. If your looking for clean, one of those is the way to go.

Thanks for the info. I'd already have a better set on if I knew for sure they'd be an improvement. Sounds like the Hawks will be my next set.;)
 

cobraman484

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How do I know if my EBC greens are the new or the old. I bought them a little over a year ago and still have the boxes they came in.
 

Viper Specialty

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How do I know if my EBC greens are the new or the old. I bought them a little over a year ago and still have the boxes they came in.

Honestly, I cant recall any way of telling them apart- that was half the problem back a couple years ago, they changed and nobody knew what the heck happened for quite some time as the new style started shipping and all the results changed. A little over a year ago is right in the middle of the changeover time too...

Perhaps post up a picture of the box and we can compare it to whats laying around/memory?
 

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