Won't start possible fuel pump relay

[GTSnake]

So I'm trying to start up my car after some time in storage. The battery is full and it started a few weeks ago. I ran it for about 10 minutes then shut it down. Now it just cranks but won't fire up. Not even sputtering. I'm suspecting it's the fuel pump since normally I hear it priming/pumping when I first turn on the key. Now I don't hear anything.

I'm hoping it's just a fuse or relay. Where should I start looking? Is the relay under the hood in the fuse block or under the IP? I'm really hoping it's not mice chewing wires since a few months ago i saw something scurrying outside the garage.

 

[Steve-Indy]

What year?

If indeed a Gen II, fuel pump relay and fuse are in a small closed rectangular box in the extreme left side of "trunk". Remove lid for map.

Suggest that after you check fuse, you remove FP relay they firmly repeat it. If you cannot fear pump turn on then off as pressure rises, there are other steps to discuss.

I hope that you did not use a battery charger that has a amperage boost for starting as that maneuver often kills PCM.

P.S. I left a voicemail for you.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Easy tests:

Turn key ON.
-Fuel Pump Prime at Key-On?
-ASD Relay Self-Test at Key-On?
-Plug in a code reader. Able to scan?

If the answer to all those is NO, and you have power and ground at PCM Connector C1 Pin 2 [Run/Start 12V], 22 [Constant 12V], and 31/32 [Ground]... PCM is dead.

Report back findings.

Early G2 PCM fails in this manner on a regular basis.

Contact for PCM if needed. In stock as always. In required cases, we do have ability to migrate calibrations as well, since I see your car is TT and likely not on a standard cal.

 

[daveg]

Dan,
I see allot of people heeding warnings about the "Old Style" Battery / Boost chargers and wanted your thoughts on the C-Tek etc. Over the Winter months, I put one on my Gen II while it hibernates and set the C-Tek to the Winter setting.

Do you suggest using it OR don't take a chance with any charger and simply let it be over the Winter months.

Thanks.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dave-

As long as Winter is "Float" or "Maintenance" mode on a CTek, definitely use it.

 

[daveg]

Dave-

As long as Winter is "Float" or "Maintenance" mode on a CTek, definitely use it.

Cool, thanks Dan! Happy New Years!

 

[GTSnake]

I have a battery tender which charges at 800ma max. I'll check the fuse and relay first.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I have a battery tender which charges at 800ma max. I'll check the fuse and relay first.

You need to check EXACTLY what I listed. Don't skip anything, and dont waste time looking elsewhere.

 

[GTSnake]

So here's the relay. I can't seem to find it anywhere. I seem to recall years ago I've replaced it before. Where can I get one?

Looks like replacement part number is 4727370AA. I guess I'll try that first.

 

[white out]

Plug it back in and see if car fires. They can come loose.

 

[daveg]

Is the Horn Relay the same and interchangeable?
Not sure if it is or not.

Did you run the Tests as Dan suggested?

 

[GTSnake]

Where is the horn relay? Code scanner showed no codes.

I was able to find the replacement part number. I'm just going to verify the relay blades look the same and I'll order it. The original part number is impossible to find. It shows unavailable everywhere you look.

 

[GTSnake]

Plug it back in and see if car fires. They can come loose.

It was tight when I pulled it out.

 

[Goggles Pizano]

Where is the horn relay? Code scanner showed no codes.

I was able to find the replacement part number. I'm just going to verify the relay blades look the same and I'll order it. The original part number is impossible to find. It shows unavailable everywhere you look.

You will need to modify the relay. 1 of the pins is too wide and people file it down. Did you test the relays?

 

[GTSnake]

You will need to modify the relay. 1 of the pins is too wide and people file it down. Did you test the relays?

No don't know how.

 

[daveg]

You will have to use an Ohm Meter to test the Coil. Another way is to apply 12 volts to see if it clicks.. You will have to get the pinout to determine the 12 volt side and the relay side.

You can reinstall and you could have someone cycle the key and you can put your hand on it to feel the click as well and or listen that way. That will tell you if the relay is energizing but not necessarily if the relay side is making contact.

OR, buy a Horn relay and shave the 1 spade as Googles Suggested.

Did you run the Tests as Dan Suggested?

 

[Goggles Pizano]

@daveg and @GTSnake it will be on the relay (most have them stamped). If not, pin 86 and 85 are the 12V coil side. 30, 87 and 87a are the swiitch side.

 

[GTSnake]

So I honked the horn then switched the relay with the ASD. The horn honked again so I don't think it's the ASD relay.

 

[daveg]

Again, did you do the tests that Dan suggests?

Dan, question, if you turn the Ignition ON (don't start) and the Check Engine light doesn't come on, could that also be an indication the Computer OR voltage to the computer is bad??

 

[GTSnake]

So the replacement part number doesn't look like the pins are the same.
Original 4848193

You must be registered for see images attach

Supposedly equivalent part 4727370AA

You must be registered for see images attach

The number of pins are less and looks like a different size. Also the orientation of the middle row is different. There's no way it would fit.

Even this one I found has one less pin

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Goggles Pizano]

So if the relay horn honked, your relay is properly fine. Did you test the fuel pump relay the same?

And do you have a multimeter?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Again, did you do the tests that Dan suggests?

Dan, question, if you turn the Ignition ON (don't start) and the Check Engine light doesn't come on, could that also be an indication the Computer OR voltage to the computer is bad??

Yes, on some years. On others it will just illuminate... so its not fool proof.

If anyone has any other direct questions, feel free to ask... but my unsolicited input to this thread ended with my comments going unanswered.

Apparently, people enjoy struggling... nothing new there!

 

[GTSnake]

I'm only diagnosing to my abilities. I don't have multi meter and am not a electronic wizard.

By swapping the ASR relay with the horn I can say the relay is good since it worked on the horn circuit.

I don't think the horn relay would work on the fuel pump socket since the pins are nowhere close to a match.

Looks like I'll have to grind down the pin on the replacement relay when I get it. I'm just wondering if the circuits are the same as the original.

 

[daveg]

Do you have an OBDII scanner?

 

[Viper Specialty]

2 out of 4 things I asked you to do involve no more than your ears and the car key. One needs a generic code reader. The last can be fudged with a 12V LED side marker bulb available at autozone for 4 dollars.

Rise to the challenge, or hand it off to someone who does it every day. Digging into vehicle electronics without knowing what you are doing and changing things without cause does nothing but murky the waters and Introduce new potential problems.

Diagnostic processes are carried out in a particular order for a reason. "Guess and check" rarely works.

 

[Goggles Pizano]

You can test the fuel pump relay with a 9V battery.

 

[GTSnake]

So I tried a new relay and nothing changed. When I hooked up the code reader it scanned for about 30 seconds and then failed. Does that mean the PCM is fried?

 

[Viper Specialty]

So I tried a new relay and nothing changed. When I hooked up the code reader it scanned for about 30 seconds and then failed. Does that mean the PCM is fried?

Yes, assuming the PCM has power and ground where it should.

 

[GTSnake]

Yes, assuming the PCM has power and ground where it should.

I sent you an email.