x-pipe question and help?

[Saleen-Explorer]

If we get the Viper I was thinking about adding an x-pipe in, shouldn't this get the Viper to sound much throatier and smoother with the pulses being able to mix with each other and sound like a 10 cylinders screamin instead of sounding 5 bangerish?

The setup I'd like to do is rear muffler delete and cats removed (or maybe add highflow cats) and run the piping near the rear diff where I'm guessing is the only place to install an x-pipe to mix the pulses and sound much better. The piping and x-pipe would have to be 2 1/2 inches from either the headers or cats correct?

Anyone with this setup want to comment, or if there's a sound clip b/c I couldn't find one? Couldn't find a lot of info on the x-pipe, only a few threads.

Thank You for any help
Depending on which car we get, the 996 was very easy to lay out a plan for mods for both performance and minor track use, Viper's got me a little stumped scince I know a lot about Porsche's and my mom had a modified 95' 993 (bored and stroked motor etc), and the only experience with the Viper I have is my friends 00' ACR but obviously college is over and he's back home in KY.

 

[LETHAL GTS]

Re: x-pipe question?

Try a search for "B&B cat back".
I think your questions will be answered.

 

[ViperJoe]

Try searching x pipe, muffler delete, etc

 

[GTS Dean]

X-pipe instead of the muffler on a Viper sounds much better.

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[Vipermed 97.01]

No power to be gained this far back in the system but it sure sounds great,this is the system that i custom make(plug)

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Dean's and Scott's X is a little different design than the one I heard where the X was more like fused or joined together rather than crossing. No matter, anything that replaces the rear muffler is going to be a huge improvement.

 

[pjb]

heres the b&b x-over..

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[Saleen-Explorer]

GTS DEAN and Vipermed, thankyou, that is exactly what I was looking for, those are "real" x-pipes that actually are able to cross flow the pulses as on a Mustang. Exactly the type of pics I wanted to see, thanks again.

No offense to any of the B&B people, but I'm not fond of their x-pipe design. It looks like it's welded to close with hardly an "x" in it, almost as if fused together as Chuck said above, seems like it would act more like an
h-pipe in flow. It looks to me like it doesn't have the bends in it like the x-pipes above or on Mustangs etc to cross flow well.

Thankyou for the help though, I like this forum.

 

[b3rndtt0ast]

most "x" pipes are like B&B's, but closer to the engine. the Corvette guys use Xpipes like B&B's. they flow better (just guessin thats why)

 

[Saleen-Explorer]

most "x" pipes are like B&B's, but closer to the engine. the Corvette guys use Xpipes like B&B's. they flow better (just guessin thats why)

True, it's just when you look at the pics of that x-pipe or some others, it's fused so close together that it would appear to me that a larger percentage of exhaust flowing through each pipe would keep flowing throught the same pipe b/c of the way the bends are, and maybe a small percentage may cross over. I could be wrong though, it just appears to me that it doesn't cross over as well. I know theres probably not enough room to do a real x-pipe as in the pics above closer to the engine, if it was possible I'm sure the Viper engine would gain a very noticeable amount of power.

Thats why I liked the other x-pipe's which are designed in the same way that x-pipes are made for Mustangs where it actually forms a perfect X instead of looking like it was fused together at an angle. You can see how the bends are much larger and actually form a large X where the pipes cross over perfectly and match, the bends are perfectly angled to allow the full flow of each pipe to cross over and mix.

 

[genXgts]

Saleen,

Looking at it another way, if the first two designs with the true X perform as you describe, the same unbalanced sound would now emit out the other pipe though no??

I went with a fused )( more pronounced than the BB setup, and love the sound.

Chuck and I talked about it when I was last in Florida and agreed that was the route I would go after over a true X.


Totally subjective of course, and most likely splitting hairs, will dyno soon and see if anything happened as I was harnessing some power back with headers and cats to the OEM rear muffler I think, hope?

 

[Newport Viper]

Can you "x" pipe a Gen 1???

 

[Jerome Sparich]

You want an X-pipe you get it from the best, Burns.

Anybody want to tell them that their designs do not work?


Parallel inlet and outlet

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Splayed inlet and outlet

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Splayed inlet - parallel outlet

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http://www.burnsstainless.com/Crossovers/crossovers.html

 

[Saleen-Explorer]

Saleen,
I went with a fused )( more pronounced than the BB setup, and love the sound.

Chuck and I talked about it when I was last in Florida and agreed that was the route I would go after over a true X.

Anyway you can post a soundclip, or PM/Email me with one? The more I thought about it, either x pipe design would still sound much better then stock. I guess the reason I didn't like the ones that looked fused was b/c I didn't really like the sound of the B&B (no offense to any B&B users).

I've already heard Vipers runn straight pipes or catbacks w/ and w/o an h-pipe in the rear (friend just removed his and is having an x-pipe installed now on his ACR but he lives up in KY). But I would really like to hear what a setup such as straight pipes and Belanger headers and no cats (or stock headers) would sound like with an x-pipe in the rear. Would it be more muscular etc.?

How do you like you setup?

Thanks for the help,
Chris

 

[genXgts]

Jerome, considering Burns offer three different styles of crossover pipes, no I wouldn't tell them their designs do not work as they offer them all!

Saleen, I'll try and get a soundclip off a camera for kicks, like to have it on file myself.

Running 98+ headers, Roe Oval 3 inch and a fused )(rear **** delete, close to the splayed in and out from above. It is about perfect for volume level for my tastes. I do have a preference for "muted" power and love the sound of Corsa.

 

[Jerome Sparich]

Ryan where the meet they are all the same. It is only the inlet/outlets that are different.

 

[ViperJoe]

OK Jerome, can you give any insight as to how each one might sound or what their characteristics might be?
Thanks

 

[Jerome Sparich]

I can not tell you exactly how they will sound on a Viper but I can tell you the function of an x-pipe is to use the exhaust pulses to help scavenge from the opposite cylinder bank.

An x-pipe will have no positive effect on power being placed in the rear of the car like it will be on the Viper. The optimum placement for power producing is approx. 6"-18" behind the header collector. Same as with an H-pipe. Placement will vary with every car/engine combo.

The only 2 functions it will have on a Viper is to "even out" or "smooth out" the exhaust pulses so it will sound less like two 5 cyl. engines. And to possibly to cancel out any "drone" or resonation you might get from your exhaust system. It will not help positive flow back there, if too small it could have a negative effect.

You want a free flowing crossover, whether it be an "X" or an "H" pipe. Notice how the B&B does not reduce too much in overall size where they come together, this will keep up flow while allowing the pulses to merge.

 

[genXgts]

Your right Jerome,

I guess my point is that the more pronounced "variance" off the true X pipe I would think the more flow crossover between both sides, evening out the mix moreso.

A true X like the first pic would essentially toss all the exhaust out the other side with minimal crossover in my opinion, negating the sound and smoothing effect from the more )( <fused> type.

but who knows, it's late, I'm going to bed......

 

[V10 MOJO]

so what type of x pipe is best for an improved sound???

i currently have a corsa catback; will this x pipe be compatible??

 

[ViperJoe]

I'm down with the x-pipe theory, just wanted to know what properties the spayed in-out, splayed parallel, etc would have if any. If they make 'em that way it must be for a reason. Any engineers in the house? Link for Burns?

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

As said earlier,this far back in the system little if no power to be gained or lost,we have tested both true x pipe and merge style and have found little difference in sound either.However there is a significant sound difference with and without the X pipe.We offer the x pipe with 4.5" tips for 175.00 shipped

 

[PatrickG]

Can you try to describe the difference of a "simple" muffler-delete and a x-pipe instead of muffler? What is the difference? Deeper? Throatier? etc.

Thank you

 

[Jerome Sparich]

I'm down with the x-pipe theory, just wanted to know what properties the spayed in-out, splayed parallel, etc would have if any. If they make 'em that way it must be for a reason. Any engineers in the house? Link for Burns?

Fitment issue.

The only difference is their ability to "fit" in your exhaust system. They are made like that for placement in varying types of exhausts. Someone might want a "tight x" and others may need a more "spread out x".

Sort of like when you buy a universal H-pipe kit, you have to cut the main crossover tube to fit, as the pipes off the collectors will not be the same distance apart on all vehicles.

Just a placement issue, no real pluses or minuses to any of those designs.

 

[V10 MOJO]

so which type is ideal for the corsa cat back exhaust system??
will this increase loudness or just improve sound quality with regard to rumble/throatiness, whatever you want to call it??

 

[genXgts]

Mojo, to drop the Corsa rear muffler would leave you with not much off the stock OEM system with the rear muffler. You would still have the Corsa supplied rear resonators and rear tips, but that would be a moot point in my book considering the price of the Corsa.

Bottom line, OEM with rear dropped muffler, and Corsa cat back with rear muffler dropped would be little difference at all.

Dropped OEM muffler over muffler in, huge difference, it perked up my 2000 header Roe Oval exhaust system bigtime. Dyno to follow. Remember all this talk of no gain is an X pipe or H or fused over simple straight pipes. There is a gain of approx 10 horse when dropping the muffler, regardless of how it's done, the rest is just sound preference as it's so far back from the motor......

my .02, worth .015 in US funds.

 

[V10 MOJO]

thnx; as im just looking to improve sound quality only, i could care less about performance gains (ill get em elsewhere)

so basically; with the corsa system i currently have its useless to implement a x-pipe set up d/t the corsa muffler placement? does that mean i should just **** and be happy with what i got

 

[Jerome Sparich]

Or you could just get the whole new Corsa system with the x-pipe.

I don't know if you could buy just the rear section with the "x", or if it would even retrofit to your older Corsa.

 

[Mike 99ACR]

The x-pipe is going to help get rid of alot of the tinny or ratty sound at acceleration on cars with headers, no cats, and with high flow mufflers. At idle it gives it a stronger rumble. At least this is the way it is on mine car. I tested on then off and the x-pipe makes a good difference in sound.

 

[Mike 99ACR]

The x-pipe is going to help get rid of alot of the tinny or ratty sound at acceleration on cars with headers, no cats, and with high flow mufflers. At idle it gives it a stronger rumble. At least this is the way it is on mine car. I tested on then off and the x-pipe makes a good difference in sound.

I met to tell you mine is more like the picture of the b&b x-pipe.