You guys are going to hate me but…

Kris396ss

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New gen 2 owner here. This car was destined for the scrap heap, totaled about a month off the dealer lot back in 2000 at 309 miles. Took a nasty hit to the front chassis section but nothing that can’t be pulled fairly easily.

The hard part is the fact that the car sat up 5’ on a rack for decades I suppose at a friend’s body shop having parts torn off it to donate to other vipers. The plus side is, when I bought the car I got a lot of the damaged (some barely damaged) parts from the cars it helped save.

a few good deals later and I now have a complete body (albeit some heavy repair needed on the hood and minor repair rockers/sport cap/bumper).

The part you guys may hate is that this car will be getting a 6.4 gen 3 hemi from a scatpack that I picked up for cheap. I’ll be camming it and putting it on E to make somewhere in the neighborhood of 500+whp and using the ZF 8 speed it came with.

I know there’s a hellcat and hurricane swapped viper out there, but the goal for this car was always to stay true to its roots and be a bad ass time attack/road course car, not just a drag queen.

As much as I’d LOVE to fully restore this into an original viper complete with v10/6060, it’s just not worth it for this particular car. The cost would likely end up more than what I could have just bought a high mile complete car for.

Few goals I have for the car -

-Get it looking like a Viper again and somewhat presentable (on a budget).

-keep light with minimal creature comforts and take out weight where I can (while keeping it street friendly…just barely lol).

-weld up a cromoly cage, or possibly just a bar for it with some additional chassis reinforcement.

-build it in a way that makes it easily serviceable so I’m not afraid to beat the pistons out of it on road courses, auto-x half mile drags and every other fun thing I could bring it to.

I’d love to get out there and meet/cruise/race with some Viper clubs. I think anyone who grew up in the 90’s could agree these cars were the epitome of cool back then (and still). Not sure if any other car in history has ever been depicted so frequently in pop culture or had such a unique style. Despite mine not being much like an original, I’m still getting really hooked on the lore and history of these legendary cars and I still can’t believe I own one.

With how rare these cars are, and how many have supposedly been wrecked, it’s going to feel really good to get this thing up and running again. It’s the car that never should have ran again and somehow dodged (no pun intended) 25 years of being sent to the scrapper. I think if this car could talk, it wouldn’t be TOO upset with finding a 600bhp modern hemi/paddle shifter 8 speed between its rails instead of the v10/6060. I think it would just be happy to be alive . Can’t wait to start putting some (budgeted) love into this build.

As for my first question, I’ve been reading about the 998/999 recall (this is a 2000 model year RT-10 and was wrecked before the recall) so as I understand it , I’ll have to reinforce the rack aree only and not the toe arm / rear diff crossmember mounting points?

While I’ve got the chassis stripped down, are there any other points that could be beneficial to reinforce when seeing heavy track use? I could just go crazy adding gussets everywhere, but that’s also adding weight so I’d like to be as strategic about it as possible.









 
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BoondocSaint

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My $.02, I'll champion bringing a Viper back from the dead. Your drive train choice makes the most sense given the nature of both car and budget. Majority get bent out of shape when things like this happen to clean cars, not rehabbing a car that had been long written off. Good luck in your journey, hopefully you don't run into any major hiccups.
 
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Kris396ss

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Thanks!
Totally agree, I’m not a fan of guys ripping out perfectly good v10’s from these cars. The crazy thing about the gen1/2 engines is how many other 30 year old powerplants can still do something BETTER than most modern production n/a engines can, and that is make monster torque off idle through to redline. 30 years later and you still don’t see coyotes, gen 3 hemis or ls engines making that kind of torque curve. Only downside is the crazy cost of aftermarket parts. Can’t put a price on being cool though.



I’m hoping I’ve anticipated most of the major hiccups already . I’ve been around the block quite a few times with swap cars and used to work as a fabricator at a speed shop so not much scares me. so far the only thing that caught me off guard was the price of damn headlights and hard tops. Everything else this car still needs seems to be reasonably priced in the used market though.



I’ve got a plan for the headlights. I already picked up two lenses from a company that made reproduction lenses for these cars but since stopped. The owner had two that didn’t pass QC for being slightly on the thin side and he gave them up to me for $100/pair when I was asking him for the 3d model printouts lol. My plan is to graft them onto a similar housing , so I’ve been hunting cars with buckets shaped roughly the same. On my list to try are gen 2 Miata’s and 98-02 Camaros.
 

daveg

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I believe their is a rear Gusset that was added as well. I cant put my finger on placement right now but I believe their is one that is recommended.

If someone knows of location, I am sure they will chime in. If they don't, I will find out where it goes.

Good luck with your project, sounds fun.

Edit:
998 Recall: If you're going to track the car, do not track it unless the 998 Recall has been performed on your 96-99 viper. For the front, if inspection does not reveal any cracks then all that is required is the additional of several frame reinforcement pieces. One of them does require welding and there are very specific instructions in the recall as to how this is to be done. The other 2 pieces involve grinding off some existing gussets and replacing them with larger ones that are riveted in place with numerous structural steel rivets. Except for the welding this reinforcement is relatively straight forward as it does not require any dissasembly, etc. No alignment work is required unless cracks are found. ! So the only difficultly is applying the recalls to most cars is the welding.

For the rear, it requires that the differential be removed to do the inspection. If no weld cracks are found several frame reinforcements are added. The one on the right side is relatively straight forward. The one on the left side is more complicated but neither requires welding. Both of these reinforcements are riveted in place with numerous structural steel rivets. No alignment work is required unless cracks are found!
 
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Goggles Pizano

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Ryan at Scharf put a LS in a R/T long time ago. Since you will be tracking it, just make sure you make it weight balanced. Try to put the weight as far behind the front axle. You need corner scales during the build.

And originally it was V10/T56. The T6060 wasn't until later years.
 
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Kris396ss

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Daveg, I actually skimmed a 100+ page pdf I found for the actual recalls. It doesn’t seem like the 998 recall would have affected this car being built in 2000, but there was a 999 recall for just the steering rack support that I think may have affected this car. I know this chassis doesn’t have any plates riveted or welded to gusset the steering rack mount currently, so I guess it can’t hurt to add some just in case.

Goggles Pizano, I’ve seen pics and some brief articles on that ls powered car but I wish there were more info out there on it, it looks awesome. I really wanted to do an aluminum LS in this for weight savings and the compactness of the ls engine, but this great deal on a 6.4 fell into my lap and I couldn’t turn down keeping the car all mopar.

For weight balance, I’d like to bias the car very slightly to the rear which I think will be possible given the much shorter length of the v8 , but if I could sit the motor in a place that avoids having to notch anything and makes things more easily serviceable, I’d be willing to sacrifice LITTLE rear bias for that. I don’t want the bias to be worse than factory though, so 49/50 or 50/50 is the furthest I’ll go lol. I do plan to check it out on corner scales before burning in all the mounts.

One thing that would be real helpful is if I could get my hands on a factory viper to take some measurements as far as crank centerline height in relation to the chassis and how far back the back of the block/front of bellhousing sit in the chassis. That would help me a lot with knowing for far back I’d need it (roughly) , also how high I can go before raising the crank centerline (and thus COG) higher.

I’m a little hesitant about redesigning the wheel and increasing rear bias too much, since all of the factory suspension (and aftermarket) components, sway bar rates, spring rates, alignment specs that people have found work best on these cars etc… have all been based around the factory weight bias. This car will be lighter, but I’m hoping it’ll be lighter somewhat proportionately with what I’m taking out of it along with the engine weight savings.

As for pics, it seems I need to resize anything I post here so I’ll have to find some time to do that. In the mean time though, the YouTube videos I made above are worth 1000 pics if you don’t mind skimming through all the blabbering
 

viperkim

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New gen 2 owner here. This car was destined for the scrap heap, totaled about a month off the dealer lot back in 2000 at 309 miles. Took a nasty hit to the front chassis section but nothing that can’t be pulled fairly easily.

The hard part is the fact that the car sat up 5’ on a rack for decades I suppose at a friend’s body shop having parts torn off it to donate to other vipers. The plus side is, when I bought the car I got a lot of the damaged (some barely damaged) parts from the cars it helped save.

a few good deals later and I now have a complete body (albeit some heavy repair needed on the hood and minor repair rockers/sport cap/bumper).

The part you guys may hate is that this car will be getting a 6.4 gen 3 hemi from a scatpack that I picked up for cheap. I’ll be camming it and putting it on E to make somewhere in the neighborhood of 500+whp and using the ZF 8 speed it came with.

I know there’s a hellcat and hurricane swapped viper out there, but the goal for this car was always to stay true to its roots and be a bad ass time attack/road course car, not just a drag queen.

As much as I’d LOVE to fully restore this into an original viper complete with v10/6060, it’s just not worth it for this particular car. The cost would likely end up more than what I could have just bought a high mile complete car for.

Few goals I have for the car -

-Get it looking like a Viper again and somewhat presentable (on a budget).

-keep light with minimal creature comforts and take out weight where I can (while keeping it street friendly…just barely lol).

-weld up a cromoly cage, or possibly just a bar for it with some additional chassis reinforcement.

-build it in a way that makes it easily serviceable so I’m not afraid to beat the pistons out of it on road courses, auto-x half mile drags and every other fun thing I could bring it to.

I’d love to get out there and meet/cruise/race with some Viper clubs. I think anyone who grew up in the 90’s could agree these cars were the epitome of cool back then (and still). Not sure if any other car in history has ever been depicted so frequently in pop culture or had such a unique style. Despite mine not being much like an original, I’m still getting really hooked on the lore and history of these legendary cars and I still can’t believe I own one.

With how rare these cars are, and how many have supposedly been wrecked, it’s going to feel really good to get this thing up and running again. It’s the car that never should have ran again and somehow dodged (no pun intended) 25 years of being sent to the scrapper. I think if this car could talk, it wouldn’t be TOO upset with finding a 600bhp modern hemi/paddle shifter 8 speed between its rails instead of the v10/6060. I think it would just be happy to be alive . Can’t wait to start putting some (budgeted) love into this build.

As for my first question, I’ve been reading about the 998/999 recall (this is a 2000 model year RT-10 and was wrecked before the recall) so as I understand it , I’ll have to reinforce the rack aree only and not the toe arm / rear diff crossmember mounting points?

While I’ve got the chassis stripped down, are there any other points that could be beneficial to reinforce when seeing heavy track use? I could just go crazy adding gussets everywhere, but that’s also adding weight so I’d like to be as strategic about it as possible.









Just FWI after all this work and time on a budget you most likely end up with a half ass viper that has no more value than what it is right now. If you want a hellcat go buy one they are cheap. If you want a viper save your nickels and dimes and get a viper. But owning a viper is not a budget game. Good luck
 
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Kris396ss

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Just FWI after all this work and time on a budget you most likely end up with a half ass viper that has no more value than what it is right now. If you want a hellcat go buy one they are cheap. If you want a viper save your nickels and dimes and get a viper. But owning a viper is not a budget game. Good luck
I think you might be missing the point. If by half ass you mean a Viper that'll outperform any Viper being sold for the money invested by a significant margin on a race track, then sure, it'll be half ass. My budget for the car is about $25k all in to get the bare minimum of what i'm looking for performance wise and cosmetically getting it to look like a Viper. That'll include a 525WHP gen 3 Hemi/ZF 8 speed, fuel system to support E85, gen 3 big brake upgrade front/rear caliper upgrade, BC coil overs, new bushings throughout, racing seats/5 pt harness/roll bar or full cage.

Unfortunately I don't get much joy out of just buying complete cars. I like building unique and fun projects.As much as I've always loved Vipers, I wasn't in the market for one specifically. I was in the market to build a cool/unique/fun time attack + road course car.
I just came across this car by chance and it was too cool of a foundation for my project to turn down. You're absolutely right that it probably won't be worth what I dump into it, but I definitely don't buy or build cars as investment.

I will say that owning this car and learning more about Vipers really sparked an interest in me and I could see myself possibly owning a clean/original one someday as a weekend cruiser, but for the most part building custom cars has always been my thing and I've never been able to bring myself to take up limited garage space with something that wasn't.

I don't expect everyone to get it, sometimes I don't get it myself when i look at how much time, work and money went into the other cars I own when I could have just bought late model stuff, did a few bolt ons and accomplished the same thing performance wise...but there's a feeling you get when you pop the hood, a crowd gathers around and you know it's YOUR hard work and craftsmanship they're complimenting that hooks me in. That and the "mission accomplished" feeling when you're cruising your build, throwing it around a track or down a drag strip knowing that all those thousands of details that you planned/designed/assembled/fabricated are working exactly the way you intended.

Even if I decided to "refine" this car someday, finish the interior off, clean up the body and paint or even put a V10/T56 back in it, I would be fully aware that I'd be deeper into it $$$ wise than if I just bought one, but the car would have a story. It would feel like something *I* built and that's what gives me the warm and fuzzy feeling in this hobby as weird as that sounds lol.


PS, I already have a hellcat powered car (see signature). No desire to own a Hellcat.
 
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MoparMap

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I know what you mean about making a car your own and throwing money at something. I've been throwing way too much time at my 67 Dart to make it a really nice commuter car. So far I haven't been quite as bad with money, though I know I still probably have more in it than it's worth. I'm doing a lot of stuff to make it more comfortable to daily as close to year round as I can get and to make it look and act like a modern car. I could have probably just bought a modern car to do the same thing, but it's more fun when I can make it myself and customize it to exactly what I want vs having to live with whatever the factory offers me in another car. Like, if I want heated seats, I'll just go buy a kit and put it in the car and put the switch wherever I like it. Or if for some reason I ever got tired of it being a manual I could just put an automatic in it and go. It's a blank slate to me that I can continually modify as my needs and tastes change, even if it isn't the best monetary option I've got.
 
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Kris396ss

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Exactly! I built my 96 impala to beat hellcats, handle and stop like a new car and be able to comfortably and reliably make long trips. It cost me more money than just buying a new hellcat and that doesn’t include the thousands of hours of time I have into it. And you know what? In the end, sure, it can beat a stock hellcat, it turns, stops and ride better than anyone would ever expect a mid 90’s land yacht to and it is comfortable and reliable, but the hellcat is still a better car in many ways. It’s just really hard to match wits with a car that was designed by teams of engineers using more recent technology and if you’re looking to make an old car compete head to head with a new in EVERY category, you ARE NOT doing it to save money. You never will. You’re doing it because when you park yours at a car show or in a parking lot or take it to the track, you’re going to get more nods, thumbs up and crowds gathering around. You do it because it feels really good to build something yourself, exactly the way you wanted to and see that plan come to fruition.

I think the other nice thing about building stuff is the ability to keep yourself occupied while accumulating funds. If I spend 3 months welding up the chassis and cage, next thing I know I have the money saved for the next step. If I decided I wanted to just save for a high priced car all at once, by the time I had that money in the bank I think my rational side would slap me and tell me to leave it or invest it. That’s certainly the smarter thing to do, but I like to live while I’m alive and throwing the money into the build as I make it keeps me from being boring with my money . It also keeps me entertained while I’m working toward the finished product.

What’s the Dart’s setup going to be like? I strongly suggest gen 3 hemi

Here are my other cars. Finally started uploading some pics to a hosting site so I’ll post pics of the Viper next



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Kris396ss

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Here it is, in all its glory. Left front rail is managed at the frame horn section, I have a whole new replacement rail section that came with the car. Pass side tweaked a little at the crumple zone boxes but all damage is forward of firewall, behind suspension mounting points and can easily be pulled on a frame table.

The car came with a driver's door, two 1/4s, rear bumper, sport cap and hood, F/R bumper supports, sport cap pad and rockers (hood has the most damage, rest of the parts only have cosmetic damage) and I paid <2k for it all making it possibly the cheapest rolling viper ever sold. Well, rolling minus wheels which I purchased for $100 with tires on marketplace but had to remove the calipers to fit them. I later purchased a front bumper cover, pass door/mirror/stanchion, gen 2 18" wheels, tail lights/turn marker and both hood vents for a total of about $1500 total, so i'm about $3500 deep into the car so far.

I also picked up a set of reproduction headlight lenses for $200 from a company that produced them but has long since stopped. I was inquiring as to the CAD file and the owner told me he had a set of lenses left over that were produced slightly on the thin side and did not pass QC but would still be functional. I picked them up for $100 and my plan is to graft them onto an aftermarket headlight housing from another vehicle with a similar size/shape and then fit them into the viper body, which should save me $2000+ on headlights while looking OEM from the outside.

The engine and 8hp70 trans has 75k miles from a wrecked 2018, checked out clean when I bore scoped it/checked plugs/cut filter and I purchased it from a friend for a steal at 3k (it was for a customer's build who lost interest and my friend just wanted it out of his yard).

The whole build has really been a culmination of a lot of great deals so far, which makes me feel a little better about the next part of the build where i'll be dropping some money into the 6.4 like an MMX "max effort" cam, non-MDS lifters, FIC650's, Mallory HV/HP oil pump shooting for around 525WHP on E85. Also plan on upgrading suspension and brakes, although I think for now I'm going to try to do my best with a set of cheap BC's. I can't justify the cost of something like a Penske on this car YET, but I figure down the road I may wish to upgrade IF I'm happy with the build and it warrants further refinement on track.

I thought I was going to have to be pulling this thing myself the old fashioned way using my tram tool, but a friend of mine who is a teacher at a local automotive tech school came through and offered to straighten the chassis for me on their new $40,000 laser tram/frame table using it as part of his lesson plan for the kids. He's going to pull it square, make sure all the suspension points are within spec and then i'll be able to jig it, weld the new section in and reinforce the buckled areas.

I also noticed that somebody sawed off the sport cap mounting brackets, but luckily they fell and were wedged between the gas tank head shield and chassis. I'm still a little perplexed by this because I don't see ANY remains of where they were sawed off from on the chassis. I know where they should go, but I don't see any grind marks, any drilled spot welds or any etched away pain/rust from where they would have been. if I didn't find both brackets there, i would have thought maybe at some point the chassis was swapped with a GTS chassis while this thing was being pillaged for parts lol. Someone also cut a hole in the tub while harvesting out the fuel pump module from the tank, but that actually makes the fuel system easier to service by just removing the sport cap.


I'm actually really looking forward to diving into all this. I can't wait to get the car back and get to work.


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Few ideas on what I may want it to look like (matte paint for now).
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BoondocSaint

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Uh...wow, when you said project, you meant project. I've built a handful of classics that started life like that. Should be a fun build, keep us posted as you go.
 
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Kris396ss

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Uh...wow, when you said project, you meant project. I've built a handful of classics that started life like that. Should be a fun build, keep us posted as you go.
I will! And fortunately it's not as bad as it looks since it'll be going together with just the bare minimum. That's the beauty of building a race car. I would like just enough refinement to be able to drive it on the street but i'm sure it won't be something i'd want to take the mrs. out on a 3 hour road trip in lol


This was the state my Impala was in before I started that build. Gutted inside and out and scattered across 3 sheds for 10 years as the body sat wasting away on blocks. It was my first car so it had a lot of sentimental value which is why I didn't just buy another body to start from.

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I had a ton of fabrication time into the Challenger dropping floors 1.5" for seats, welding an 8.5 cert cage up that tucked well/maintained door panels/building a dash around it plus tucking ECU, TCM, PCM, Dakota dash module, body fuse panel and Boeing 747 size wire bundles all hidden away neatly under the dash while still being serviceable. The Viper should be a breeze with no creature comforts/accessories, not caring about hiding stuff away and not caring about it being show worthy.


I love how easy the Viper platform is to work on. As well as it performs, it's built like a 60's car on steroids. Just a good old full frame, tub, cab and a bunch of body panels that bolt to it. It's a high end sports car without the high end sports car hassle lol
 
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venm s 1

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That is quite the project good luck! Im restoring a 37 Ford right now and its a huge project too. Problem is cannot find parts.
 

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