Z06 vs. 05 Viper (with 3 mods.)

[03CobraAV8R]

Hehe, sorry, I just couldn't resist I'm a good friend of 'ol Brad here (Lankhoss) and we're just car enthusiasts in general; but I enjoy a good intelligent debate, hope I'm not considered a troll. I love the Vipers, especially the new Coupe, very sweet!

AJ, would you be interested in getting together for a photoshoot or a cruise with us sometime? I'd love to see your cars, that is an awesome collection.

- Rick

 

[Fadi]

Some more credibility for ya..

http://www.03svtcobra.net/Videos/06Z06Vs03ViperSRT10.wmv

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=110CC480-4945-4BF5-8D6C-5E3EACE6E5E2

Funny thing is, the Viper was getting the jump (and obvioulsy the much more alert driver), the guy in the Z was clueless (you can tell by how many shifts he missed) yet, when they did get a clean race, the Z would pull. Here is a quote from the Viper owner in the above race

"its not the best runs but thats all we could muster, but to me the ZO6 is definitely faster on the highway"

I know you own all cars, AJ, and you are very lucky. But it seems to me that you are more pro Viper, which is totaly ok if you like the car more, but you shouldn't let that disrupt facts.

 

[lankhoss]

Agreed. Let's get off this board and go get in the cars we love!! I'll even buy you a drink, AJ (AFTER we're done driving, of course)

 

[viper585]

Agreed. Let's get off this board and go get in the cars we love!! I'll even buy you a drink, AJ (AFTER we're done driving, of course)

Lankhoss...you are invited to come over to Dacula anytime...not far from you. You can drive my FGT...and some Vipers. And you can drive my sold Z (still have it)...and tell me if is slower than yours stock. Then you can report back on your findings. Let me know. A.J.

 

[viper585]

Hehe, sorry, I just couldn't resist I'm a good friend of 'ol Brad here (Lankhoss) and we're just car enthusiasts in general; but I enjoy a good intelligent debate, hope I'm not considered a troll. I love the Vipers, especially the new Coupe, very sweet!

AJ, would you be interested in getting together for a photoshoot or a cruise with us sometime? I'd love to see your cars, that is an awesome collection.

- Rick

Hey Rick.Sure...I am in Dacula. Let me know when something is going on.

 

[lankhoss]

Hey man, sounds good. I sent you an email, to the address that was listed in your profile.

 

[evomind]

viper585,
i know you dont know me, but if lankhoss cant make it can i come over and drive those cars of yours?
lol.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Guys, I say give up. We all know the Viper is slower than a minivan and the vette is faster than a speeding missile.

Once he stated that he raced several F GT's he lost my interest. That is just [******]. In Flint Michigan just how many F GTs do you think there are? Once, and only once did a F GT ever challenge me in a Viper. And I have one that lives in the same sub. And that was a 40 - 100 burst. Definitely not enough runs to understand how quick the F GT was. And to boot it was probably a Ford employee who did not know the car or know how to drive. Saying I won would not say much of anything. Having it on video (who the heck carries a camera around for these opportunities anyway) would not add any credence.

Again, just give up,. They have their moment in time and when the new version rolls out they will disappear into the woodwork. I mean for 14 years how many came here touting the Z06 or other vette? Very few indeed.

 

[viper585]

I know you own all cars, AJ, and you are very lucky. But it seems to me that you are more pro Viper, which is totaly ok if you like the car more, but you shouldn't let that disrupt facts.

Yes...I am Pro-Viper. The Snake has stood the test of time. It isn't a Johnny Come Lately....for a 2 year stint like my FGT...or a one year run as a Viper ******, like the Z. And yes...the Z is a notch quicker this year. The Z is taking down the 4 year old Viper with a clean design. That is why I am pro Viper, it will be around tomorrow...and in 2010....and so on. And quite frankly...I am a Gearhead. I put nitrous on my Lambo for cryin out loud!! The Viper is the ultimate car to Mod easily....and will hold up under the stress.

 

[YouWish]

GR8 ASP-Good points from your last post. The Vette has been owned and severly ***** slapped by Vipers for 14 long hard years!!! LMFAO!!! Can you really blame these Vette boys for trying anything and I mean everything to make themselves worthy??? You can take a 1992 RT-10 Viper and park it side by side with a shiny new Z06 Vette and people would still be flocking to the Viper...checkmate. Good by bow-tie boys.

 

[lankhoss]

GR8 and YouWish....you guys have some severe issues that will not be fixed by owning a certain type of car heh

 

[GR8_ASP]

Okay, enough of your schtick. Do not come here just to give us your b s. You obviously have an issue. In 14 years I never went to the vette board. Why would I as I did not own nor cherish a vette. The only reason I can see that you are here is that you secretly covet the Viper but are afraid to come out of the closet. So come out or get lost.

 

[lankhoss]

GR8, you embarrass yourself everytime you type. The only thing I'm disputing is the acceleration of the Z06 vs. the SRT-10. The FACT is, the Vette is faster. That's ALL I'm saying.

Then you've gotta go off on some completely other subject of the Viper "owning" for 14 years, and how people look at the Viper more often, and blah blah blah. That has NOTHING to do with the performance. And you are right, the Viper will ALWAYS be more exclusive, it will ALWAYS turn more heads. People who don't know ANYTHING about cars will always pick out a Viper, and not know jack feces about a Z06. No one is disputing that (I'm certainly not). But what's any of that got to do with the performance of the car?

And, like I said in a previous post. The Viper has beaten on the Corvette, but it's not in the same class. It has consistantly cost almost twice as much as a Corvette. Even when the first C5 Z06 came out, the Viper was 30k more. The Viper is a more exotic car than the Vette is, that's true. The Vette is a mass produced Coupe, it's not the same thing. But geezus Christ.....it IS faster than the SRT-10, plain and simple. There are several people who won't admit that, and there is lots of evidence out there that shows it's not even close between the two. That's ALL I'm saying. It's faster, that's IT. Everything else is subjective.

Just because I know that, doesn't mean I HATE the Viper. Why would I "secretly covet" the Viper, and need to "come out of the closet?" I have admitted, openly, that I love the Viper. I don't see why you think me saying the Z06 is faster is slander against it, or that I'm trying to make myself look better, or....and I love this one from YouWish....that I'm "worthy" of a Viper ha ha

Anyway, just calm down and stay on subject. This is a good thing for the Viper, it will force them to come out with something faster in the next generation.

 

[Nowayforya]

Well guys, I certainly am not as technically minded as most of you and as up to date on all the car magazines articles comparing the C6-Z06 to the Gen III Viper but let me share an experience with you.
Last evening I was at a local car show along with several friends that are long time members of the local Corvette club. We were parked next to each other in the show lane and very few people were looking at their cars, which were C-5s and C-6s and a new C6-Z06. My SRT-10 was getting all of the attention from the crowd.
During the show, I had two of the Corvette club members, who currently have C6-Z06’s on order, approached me and ask if I might help them locate a deal on an SRT-10.
Both said that they would really rather have an SRT-10 than the C6-Z06 they had on order.
Wonder why? Of course, I will point them in the right direction.
Its nice to have a choice or maybe we would all be driving VW’s!

 

[lankhoss]

Now, that's a good story. It all comes down to preference. Nobody is saying the Z06 is a "better" car, and I'm sure if someone could simply just pick one, most people would take the Viper. I'm not trying to dispute that, at all.

But there are people claiming the SRT-10 is still faster, and it's not....it's not even close. But whenever I provide information backing up that claim, people jump down my throat. There's no need to.

By the way, I will probably be purchasing a '99 GTS at some point. Whether I will wait several years down the road and buy it when I have the money, or get rid of this Vette and eventually get one, I'm not sure. The Viper is definitely more exotic, and I think the Gen II's are some of the best looking cars on the road. I don't care much for the SRT-10's look, although I really like the coupe.

 

[viper585]

Ok..lets get back to the original topic of the post. The Z is .1 to .3 quicker in the 1320...as reported by all impartial mags with same driver...same day. To beat that...simple stuff. Gears...3.55's...that will get the SRT .3 to .35 in the quarter. If you want to go another route, full exhaust, filters, a Tune. That makes it about equal. End of story, and wait till next year.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I NEVER said anything about exclusivity in this post. What I said is in all my years of ownership I NEVER needed to go to a vette website and spout off.

I stated much earlier that the z06 was a few tenths quicker in the 1/4. Satisfied? Do I need to repeat it every so often to satisfy you guys?

As to your logic on cost you are WRONG. At the time the Viper launched in 1992 the vette cost more. If I recall it was much more. Or did you forget about ZR-1 (Mercury Marine powered version)? The Zr-1 death may have been accelerated by the Viper as they were absolutely direct competitors.

As to the class. That is of course debatable as there are no distinct classes of cars. However, both are typically classified together, or at least the performance version of the vette has been. I mean what other car in the world would you compare a Viper to?

As to the bottom line of admitting that the z06 is quicker. It has been said. Over and over and over again. How many freaking times do we have to agree with it before you guys quit boasting about it? Your statement that the Viper is "not even close." What do you expect a statement like that to be taken as? A nicety. So what is close for 2 cars in the 11 second range? 0.001 second. I would state, and most would agree, that the range of most drivers is substantially wider than the difference between the 2 cars. That means in any head to head the driver is as important as the car. Does that make it close?

 

[lankhoss]

Viper585, you also have to remember that the torque management that is placed in the Z06's CPU is costing it as much as .3 in the quarter mile as well. So the Z06 could POSSIBLY be into the 10's without adding any horespower.....just drag radials and taking torque management off. I'm basing this off of posts made by Ranger. He was able to pick up .4 seconds in the 1320 with DR's with the C5 Z06, but only .1 with the C6. He said it was directly related to the TM. Also, even though the Vette has a lower final drive, the individual gears are very steep. The shift points are actually very similar.

What are they for the SRT-10? For the Z it's somewhere around: 1st: 62mph 2nd: 93mph 3rd: 125mph

Edit: GR8, sorry if I mixed other's responses in with what I was directing at you. I'm not here "spouting off," I'm trying to get in on a discussion. I have talked in several other non-Corvette forums about the Z06 in general, and I have never had as hard of a time as I do here....it's frustrating.

 

[viper585]

Viper585, you also have to remember that the torque management that is placed in the Z06's CPU is costing it as much as .3 in the quarter mile as well. So the Z06 could POSSIBLY be into the 10's without adding any horespower.....just drag radials and taking torque management off. I'm basing this off of posts made by Ranger. He was able to pick up .4 seconds in the 1320 with DR's with the C5 Z06, but only .1 with the C6. He said it was directly related to the TM. Also, even though the Vette has a lower final drive, the individual gears are very steep. The shift points are actually very similar.

I understand that. But that has nothing to do with the question of the thread. The guy wanted to know what simple mods he needed to do to be equal or better than a STOCK Z. If we get into overall modding by both camps.....

 

[GR8_ASP]

Look at the history here the past 2-3 years and you will see why. The vette guys were coming here bragging well more than a year before the car even went on sale and have not let off. Trust me it does get old.

 

[bluestreak]

Hey Blue!

Talking to you is like talking to my 18 month old boy who has no concept of reading comprehension. Before you call me wrong, read your post and then go stick you head in the toilet and flush it a few times...in fact stay there. Read what you said above...


That was my point from the get go. But just in case you have no idea what you are typing, let me put in idiot terms for you to understand...the guys who paid 70k for the vette would not have paid the same money for a Supra or Mustang that had the same performance as the beloved vette. It goes back to the fact that it is a vette. GM used the performance factor as a justification for them to charge 70k for it, that is it, a justification. It is the same reason why Viper guys will not do the same, hence stop your yaping and only speak of what you know first hand and not what you see on videos.

Wait let me tell you something about videos since you put so much of your defense or case on them. Road race videos are use as trophies, with that being said if the corvette guy planned this race out in his newly 70k car and he lost...do you think he would go on the vette form and post something like, I paid 70k for my vette and I got spanked by a Viper? Hell no! Also, guess what the vette guy would have made sure he won...now I am not saying he cheated to win, but let me put it this way...everyone's car is "stock."

BTW, if you vette guys have problem with launching your "rocket ship", turn on your traction control!

hey ********, you said the only reason the car is selling is because its a corvette. corvettes have sold for 40-50k. the corvette crowd is not stupid and wouldnt allow gm to up the anti unless it was worth their while. I can bet you a car this fast would sell no matter what the body shape looked like. SO YOU ARE STILL WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your last paragraph makes no sense so it gets no response.

18 month olds comprehension is something else these days

 

[SnakeBitten]

Ok..lets get back to the original topic of the post. The Z is .1 to .3 quicker in the 1320...as reported by all impartial mags with same driver...same day. To beat that...simple stuff. Gears...3.55's...that will get the SRT .3 to .35 in the quarter. If you want to go another route, full exhaust, filters, a Tune. That makes it about equal. End of story, and wait till next year.

Ok so I guess this is only about how close the Vette and Viper are in the quarter mile..The gears will deffinately help the SRT10 out in teh 1/4...What happens when you hit the highway though???Still gonna get beat by the Vette...Its about 3-4mph faster in the 1/4 and it only gets worse after that...Its exactly like the C5 Z vs the GTS except reverse....Close in the 1/4 but not after that...GTS would walk away...What would be needed for the SRT10 to pick up that 3-4mph or more with out the need for major upgrades? Would gears, intake, exhaust, headers be enough?

 

[Fadi]

Ok..lets get back to the original topic of the post. The Z is .1 to .3 quicker in the 1320...as reported by all impartial mags with same driver...same day. To beat that...simple stuff. Gears...3.55's...that will get the SRT .3 to .35 in the quarter. If you want to go another route, full exhaust, filters, a Tune. That makes it about equal. End of story, and wait till next year.

Ok so I guess this is only about how close the Vette and Viper are in the quarter mile..The gears will deffinately help the SRT10 out in teh 1/4...What happens when you hit the highway though???Still gonna get beat by the Vette...Its about 3-4mph faster in the 1/4 and it only gets worse after that...Its exactly like the C5 Z vs the GTS except reverse....Close in the 1/4 but not after that...GTS would walk away...What would be needed for the SRT10 to pick up that 3-4mph or more with out the need for major upgrades? Would gears, intake, exhaust, headers be enough?

These are exactly my thoughts. When a friend had a RT/10 and I had my C5 Z06, we would be neck and neck up to 103 mph (the end of my third gear), but once I shifted into 4th, he would walk away from me.

Sure, you can mod the Viper to beat or tie the Z06 in the 1/4, but, in order to beat it from a roll where most races take place, say, a 45+ roll, I am willing to bet that the Viper will need around 490 rwhp to just be even.

3390 / 490 = 6.91 for the Viper
3132 / 450 = 6.95 for the Z06

I know numbers dont mean that much, but this is just a rough estimate to show what it would need for a Viper to roughly match the power/weight ratio of a Z06.

This is exactly why earlier I was stating that even a lightly bolt on Viper (K&N system and cat-back exhaust) would not beat a stock Z06 from a roll.

 

[Viper23]

hey ********, you said the only reason the car is selling is because its a corvette. corvettes have sold for 40-50k. the corvette crowd is not stupid and wouldnt allow gm to up the anti unless it was worth their while. I can bet you a car this fast would sell no matter what the body shape looked like. SO YOU ARE STILL WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your last paragraph makes no sense so it gets no response.

18 month olds comprehension is something else these days

Hey Blue Balls:

Get off your high horse and think before you type. You are telling me that regardless of how the car looks people would still pay 70k for the performance? If I was a vette guy I would take offense to such a ******** reply and you say that vette guys are not dumb. So, what if the car was a Subaru or Evo that has the same performance as the Z06, would all of you vette guys pay 70k for it? According to you they would. Now if you ment that regardless of how the corvette looks, with that performance people would pay 70k for, then I just proved my point and you are an idiot. People would buy it 1st and foremost for it being a vette and the performance is a justification (definition for this word is "reason" so that you can't blame your stupidity and lack of comprehension) for the 70k.

To put in a 2nd grade comprehension level to accommodate for your ignorance. Here is the summary for the last paragraph...take your video defense and shove it. In other terms, the videos are useless.

Maybe you should get off the computer and go read your Harry Potter books...before its past your bed time.

 

[lankhoss]

I'm going to agree with Fadi on what is needed to keep up with the Z06. However, I think some slightly lower gears would also be needed to beat it in the quarter mile.

Good comparison of the new Z and SRT-10, to the C5 Z06 and GTS.

 

[GR8_ASP]

But has he taken into consideration that aftermarket wheels and exhaust drops can result in a weight loss of over 80 lbs for the Viper? (note I dropped 53.6 lbs with new wheels and Sport Cup tires and well over 30 lbs in exhaust)

By dropping the 80 lbs and adding 1 180 lb person in each car (I assume they are not driven by remote control) and only 475 hp is required to provide an equal 7.35 power to weight ratio. That is in the doable range for bolt ons. Agree?

 

[bluestreak]

Hey Blue Balls:

Get off your high horse and think before you type. You are telling me that regardless of how the car looks people would still pay 70k for the performance? If I was a vette guy I would take offense to such a ******** reply and you say that vette guys are not dumb. So, what if the car was a Subaru or Evo that has the same performance as the Z06, would all of you vette guys pay 70k for it? According to you they would. Now if you ment that regardless of how the corvette looks, with that performance people would pay 70k for, then I just proved my point and you are an idiot. People would buy it 1st and foremost for it being a vette and the performance is a justification (definition for this word is "reason" so that you can't blame your stupidity and lack of comprehension) for the 70k.

To put in a 2nd grade comprehension level to accommodate for your ignorance. Here is the summary for the last paragraph...take your video defense and shove it. In other terms, the videos are useless.

Maybe you should get off the computer and go read your Harry Potter books...before its past your bed time.

You are so stupid it's unbelievable. You try to hint that a vette guy that beats a viper at the track probably has cheated and they wouldnt post if they lose like the viper guy is deaf and mute and wouldnt tell anyone he smoked a vette? What the hell kinda sense does that make.\

And hey dufus, look at your history books. How many cars does nissan have that sells for 80k? you say none right. Well what happened when they made one that could perform (SKYLINE)? Yeah you guessed it, sold for 80k? How about honda? Have you heard of the NSX? So what that means is that when you put performance first on a car and at least make it look decent the car will sell for big bucks. Not to mention the Z is even worlds ahead of both of these cars being the fastest stock car you can buy for anywhere south of 180k (Ford GT)

I dont see how you could even say "the car only sells because its a corvette" That is the dumbest comment in this thread. Once again, if people wanted the new model corvette they could just buy the base C6 for 45k. Dont get mad at me because you dont know WTH you're taking about.

So to complete your ownage lets not just set a price mark of 70k lets just say a 25k markup from the base models. I would bet money that if Subaru or Mitsu made a car as fast as the vette they would be at least 60k. the cobra R was selling in the 50's for not much performance gain at all over the cobra. BMw M's and Mercedes AMG's follow the same rule. Learn something about cars before you post.

 

[DEADEYE]

At what point in time did it become a bad thing to want a great looking car?

 

[Viper23]

Holy Crack Jacks!

Are you serious are you just plain dumb? My point is with the videos, how many races you think have gone down on the streets between a Vette and Viper that have never been recorded? The outcomes to every race, I would not know, but I know that the Vette does not win 1/2 the time.

Now you are just stabbing in the dark with your *** car references. Lets help you shoot yourself here. First, the Skyline, NOT FOR SALE IN AMERICA (Don't tell me that it is a Z with some extras, cause it is not). Not only that, have you seen a Skyline run in person before? I have many times, there is a local guy here with one and he brings it to the track all the time. And everytime he brings it, all you ricer punks' ******* get all wet. The thing runs 14s...high 13s 1/4 mile.

The NSX, do you know anything about this car? This car is a mid engine car that was built for handling, perferrably road racing. The car has no performance qualities in the 1/4 mile. That car has no TQ to shake a stick at.

The Z, I hope you are not talking about a 350Z, cause then you are a true ricer so get off this site. My LITTLE brother owns a 350Z, and it is a good girl car.

Now, finally, the FGT, do you know that the car is a S/C V8? Wow you out did yourself on that one, coming up with a car that can beat a Viper with a S/C.

BTW, you did not even finish you last sentence about betting money with Mitsu so I don't know what you are trying to say.

So don't even start with cars cause you have no clue about anything, let alone cars.

Back to the Vette, people buy cars such as Vettes and Vipers, 1st and foremost for the brand. It is called brand loyalty. Companies spend billions of dollars every year promoting their brand. I for one am a Mopar guy, eveything car I own is a Chrysler product. And that is the same reason why a GM would buy a Camaro before a Mustang.

Ok let end this because obviously you have no clue as to how things work. Answer this question with a yes or no answer.

Do you think that Vette guys would go buy a Mitsu for 70k if the performance was comprable to a Vette or maybe a little better instead of their Vette?

 

[Viper23]

So the Z06 could POSSIBLY be into the 10's without adding any horespower.....just drag radials and taking torque management off. I'm basing this off of posts made by Ranger. He was able to pick up .4 seconds in the 1320 with DR's with the C5 Z06, but only .1 with the C6. He said it was directly related to the TM. Also, even though the Vette has a lower final drive, the individual gears are very steep. The shift points are actually very similar.

Hey Lank:

Most of the things you mentioned are great except for the above. Either Ranger is a great driver or he is blowing smoke. Either way, this is the reason why all the Vette guys I have talked to say that their Z06 can run 10s, stock. Cummon guy lets be serious, there is Gen 2 guy on here with stock tires (I think) that runs low 11s and I am sure he is an awesome driver, but that doesn't mean that all Gen 2 can run low 11s stock. I don't disagree with you that the Z06 is a well made car and it is fast. I actually praise Mr. Lutz for building such an awesome car with all the things he put in it, but 10s with drag radials is maybe pushing it. Now if you said 11.000000001, I might believe you...