My first track day ...I want more... advice appreciated

[MBPERF]

I purchased a certain 08 Orange w black strips viper from here a while back (the one that wasn't farted in) and have just completed my first track day in it. I really enjoyed the car on the track but now want more. Question is do I sell it and get a ACR or do I do mods to this car? will it ever be an ACR on the track?

I have short shifter, solid motor and trans mounts, K&N , MBRP exhaust ( mufflers only ) no headers, Eibach springs with Forgeline wheels 18 / 19 running stock tires on the car.

Im looking at spoilers / wings, brake pads, harnesses, better tires, suspension, headers .... would even remove the cats or put in high flow units anything to get more power and even better handling. I want to stay naturally aspirated.

By the time I pick up all the "extra" parts wanted I wonder if I may just as well get a ACR? is it that much better at the track?

Either way this car will see mostly track time as I will not run this on the street much.

Any thoughts / direction from others who have gone down this street on this would be great, thanks.

Martin Barkey

 

[CitySnake]

Either way this car will see mostly track time as I will not run this on the street much.

By the time I pick up all the "extra" parts wanted I wonder if I may just as well get a ACR? is it that much better at the track?

You've answered your own question perfectly! And yes, there are considerable suspension and suspension tuning differences that you will find difficult to match with only mods.

 

[Darbgnik]

No expert here, but I think the money spent in the mods you mentioned add up to amount you'd spend on upgrading to the same year ACR, yet would add no additional value to your car.

I'd say trade up, so someone can enjoy your car the way it is, and you can enjoy an ACR, which should always be worth the amount more you put in.

Plus, when someone comments on the gigantic wing, you can say, "That old thing? It's factory."

 

[B & R]

My advice would be shop both ways. See what swapping out for an ACR would cost you vs. the parts route. If you do the parts route you will still have a modded coupe but if you are really going to track it I would think that isn't bad.

Richard

 

[Mopar Boy]

Yes, an ACR is much, much better. For what your plan is, I would for sure recommend looking into a swap cost. My guess is cheaper in the long run (maybe even short run! ).

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

If you are tracking the car mostly as you say, spend the money first on good instruction and SEAT time as its 80% driver and 20% car or so. You can have all the mods in the world and if your not up to the cars capabilites its sort of waisting money. Also keep in mind the mods dont appreciate the cars value much and may hurt it. A stock ACR would be the way to go with a lot of seat time.

 

[RevHeat]

If you are tracking the car mostly as you say, spend the money first on good instruction and SEAT time as its 80% driver and 20% car or so. You can have all the mods in the world and if your not up to the cars capabilites its sort of waisting money. Also keep in mind the mods dont appreciate the cars value much and may hurt it. A stock ACR would be the way to go with a lot of seat time.

Total agree. My second time doing a DE was at Viper Days. Ron Adee who has tracked around 25k miles in his 96 GTS gave me this advice "You do not need all the extra stuff, spend the money on yourself by getting seat time and instruction"

I would wait before trading in your current car.

 

[JonB]

Upgrade Your Software FIRST. It will greatly improve your lap times, and make you a better street driver as well. You will find the software between your ears.........instructed driving schools UPGRADE it.

THEN: make it TURN Better; make it STOP Better; and THEN add power.

I agree with CITY and others above..... there are some $13K off 2009 deals left... buy the ACR. The mods to make your 08 ACR-like will cost more, and could leave you with a compromised clone of less value.

ORANGE you glad you asked?

 

[fastandloud]

ORANGE you glad you asked?

 

[redtanrt10]

1 get some track tires, Jonb can get you a good deal on a sticky set of Kuhmo's that you can drive with to the track. More impact than most bolt-ons.
2. Instruction and seat time as others said, Ben Keating from Tomball will be quicker in your coupe than most of the ACR owners in theirs.

 

[Leslie]

ACR.

Viper days and SEAT time.

Big smile on your face

 

[David Pintaric]

Harnesses for both seats
Good brake pads (I use and recommend Carbotech)
Hoosier A6 tires
Stainless steel brake lines
alignment
protective tape for leading edges of car body
Lots of water for driver

Seat time, seat time, seat time.


I have raced a SCCA T1 Viper for 4 years. T1 is very close to stock. The Viper is a very capable car in factory trim, so you don't need to modify it to perform well. As my friend JonB said, take care of the "software" called the driver first. Moding the car is not needed. if fact can hurt your development as a driver.


PS> One idea: the guy who now owns my old race car has it for sale...cheap. Great track car with all the safety equipment installed. You don't have to worry about abusing a prestine street car if you drive this one. It's fast, reliable, and sorted. I think it can be had for $36,000, it's a 2004 SRT10 with an Autoform hardtop and full SCCA T1 rollcage.

 

[MBPERF]

Seat time is understood, like anything the more you do it the better you get. Instruction makes sense, with one full day of this it is clear to just how much I have to " learn" in order to eventually drive well. Seat time shouldn't be a problem as I had so much fun I'm signed up for a few more already.

Im just one of those guys who like to have the right equipment when I show up to play and I dont like being upside down ( too much) in my rides which is what got me to questioning the value of modding the coupe or buying a ACR.

JonB I would love to grab a reduces 09 as advertised but Im from the great white north so I cannot enjoy your aggressive US pricing. Ill get my car listed and start looking for some used 08 - 09 ACR's.

Has anyone run their vipers at Mosport here in Ontario? If so what is a good time for a viper on this track?

 

[David Pintaric]

Has anyone run their vipers at Mosport here in Ontario? If so what is a good time for a viper on this track?

The SCCA T1 track record is a 1:31.5xx. I don't know how 'soft" that is, but it gives you an idea of what to shoot for.

 

[Malu59RT]

I'm guessing this is Dan's old car. How much are you asking for it, and can you send some pics/stats of the way as it currently sits. I have a friend looking for a 2008 in Orange, but I think he wanted a solid orange. I'll pass it along and see if he's interested. BTW, how many miles on it? Thanks!

 

[Bobpantax]

I think that the answer to your question depends on the track you are running on. I have a Paxtonized Gen III with a corner balanced Moton/Eibach suspension and have run at Homestead. The ACR aero is most important at the higher speeds. At Homestead, I run up to about 140 on the longest straight and have no difficulty staying ahead of ACRs which are being driven by drivers with a comparable skill set. So unless you are running at a track with higher speeds, I think the most important ACR enhancement to have is the ACR wheels and tires - particularly the tires. When I switched from the stock five spokes with PS2s to the ACR wheels with the ACR tires, I could not believe the huge difference. Once those tires heat up, they stick like glue. Of course, the ACR rims are not essential but my suspension is tuned for the setup.

 

[MBPERF]

The SCCA T1 track record is a 1:31.5xx. I don't know how 'soft" that is, but it gives you an idea of what to shoot for.

Thanks for the info David, guess I still have to practice some more......

MB

 

[MBPERF]

I'm guessing this is Dan's old car. How much are you asking for it, and can you send some pics/stats of the way as it currently sits. I have a friend looking for a 2008 in Orange, but I think he wanted a solid orange. I'll pass it along and see if he's interested. BTW, how many miles on it? Thanks!

Shoot me a email address and Ill send you pics and info on the car. Thanks MB

 

[MBPERF]

I think that the answer to your question depends on the track you are running on. I have a Paxtonized Gen III with a corner balanced Moton/Eibach suspension and have run at Homestead. The ACR aero is most important at the higher speeds. At Homestead, I run up to about 140 on the longest straight and have no difficulty staying ahead of ACRs which are being driven by drivers with a comparable skill set. So unless you are running at a track with higher speeds, I think the most important ACR enhancement to have is the ACR wheels and tires - particularly the tires. When I switched from the stock five spokes with PS2s to the ACR wheels with the ACR tires, I could not believe the huge difference. Once those tires heat up, they stick like glue. Of course, the ACR rims are not essential but my suspension is tuned for the setup.

Good point. On the back straight at Mosport im hitting 153 - 155. The rest of the track would be way under that. Im guessing maybe 110 - 120 on some of the other straight areas. I have light wheels now but could look at different tires maybe as an option if I keep the car.

 

[Bobpantax]

Good point. On the back straight at Mosport im hitting 153 - 155. The rest of the track would be way under that. Im guessing maybe 110 - 120 on some of the other straight areas. I have light wheels now but could look at different tires maybe as an option if I keep the car.

Try the ACR tires. You will be amazed. Just make sure that you heat em up first. You might check with someone like Mark Jorgensen with respect to whether you need to adjust your suspension at all if you use the ACR tires. Probably not but check just to be safe.

 

[Leslie]

Thanks for the info David, guess I still have to practice some more......

MB

How many DE's have you done?

If you are new to it, learn to drive your car the way it is now on good street tires, THEN advance to race tires.


If you are an advanced driver, go for it!

 

[David Pintaric]

On the back straight at Mosport im hitting 153 - 155. The rest of the track would be way under that. Im guessing maybe 110 - 120 on some of the other straight areas.

Safety equipment...safety equipment.

Seriously consider a track-only car with a cage and proper safetyy equipment when you are going those speeds.

I may be a wimp, but that's why I got out of HPDE's and into racing...safety.

 

[ViperGeorge]

I've modded the heck out of my 06 coupe and had I known at the time I bought it that the ACR was coming (I bought right before the announcement), I would have waited and bought the ACR. Simply a better value proposition. Mods are a pain in the butt. They cost a lot of money and things break more readily. Plus with an ACR you'd have a full factory warranty on all the extra go fast bits.

Agree with posts above, get instruction. A good driver, like Ron Adee, in a regular Viper will out drive a not so good driver in an ACR, every time. I know Ron and he is actually much better than good.

 

[MBPERF]

How many DE's have you done?

If you are new to it, learn to drive your car the way it is now on good street tires, THEN advance to race tires.


If you are an advanced driver, go for it!

Only two DE's to date. Third one coming up soon.

MB

 

[MBPERF]

Safety equipment...safety equipment.

Seriously consider a track-only car with a cage and proper safetyy equipment when you are going those speeds.

I may be a wimp, but that's why I got out of HPDE's and into racing...safety.

DAvid

Not a wimp, just smart ..... I know I just asked about performance parts in my post but safety eq is right up there as well for me. Once I figure out what car Im going with I will for sure get additional equip. Thanks for the heads up on this.

 

[Bobpantax]

Keep in mind that if you want to use the car for a standing mile event that the ACR is top speed limited by the same aero effects that provide the downforce. The 2008 and 2009 ACR top out at 177 MPH. The 2010 ACR tops out at 184 MPH due to some aero tweaking of the rear wing and perhaps the .80, as opposed to .74, fifth gear. This has been somewhat frustrating for some of our local club members who ran ACRs at standing mile events.

 

[Twister]

That would be more than frustrateing..I might have to pick between a acr or coupe this year and I have already decided on the coupe.

and that 177 top speed verses 202 top speed is a big W for the coupe side to me..

 

[MBPERF]

Keep in mind that if you want to use the car for a standing mile event that the ACR is top speed limited by the same aero effects that provide the downforce. The 2008 and 2009 ACR top out at 177 MPH. The 2010 ACR tops out at 184 MPH due to some aero tweaking of the rear wing and perhaps the .80, as opposed to .74, fifth gear. This has been somewhat frustrating for some of our local club members who ran ACRs at standing mile events.

I think Ill be good at 177. The mile events look like fun but Im more interested in track days so the acr will be fine for sure. I dont think I want to spend the $$ for a 2010 so Ill have to live with the 5th gear of the 08 -09 cars for now.

MB

 

[dans69ss]

Pssst....I have a SSG ACR.

 

[Malu59RT]

Shoot me a email address and Ill send you pics and info on the car. Thanks MB

Gotta say congrats on the new car now!