I have BTRs Nitrous/Propane/Gasoline injection system and am about to put it up on the dyno. Tom has said it is safe only when you know what you are doing and carefull and others have negative aspects on it. I know vipers run 200 shots all day long and there are vipers with stock bottom ends and have a 200 shot and a supercharger. I will be using 118 fuel when I am using the 300 shot. Let me know what you guys think. I just have exhaust on the car no internals, and bought CCW 18x13 wheels with G-force 345 BFGs, shifter, 6 point seat harness, wideband, purge, automatic bottle opener, ect... thanks
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300 Shot of nitrous safe on our cars???
- Thread starter INFURNA
- Start date
VIPER D
Viper Owner
1st off
I really think that the purge is a bad idea. Are you also going to do a purge on the propane as well if not you will have more n2o than fuel for A sec. (lean condition)
2nd you might want to take a look at my dyno sheets
http://visionsofspeed.net/custpics/04viper/
and not go any further than me.
vd..
I really think that the purge is a bad idea. Are you also going to do a purge on the propane as well if not you will have more n2o than fuel for A sec. (lean condition)
2nd you might want to take a look at my dyno sheets
http://visionsofspeed.net/custpics/04viper/
and not go any further than me.
vd..
yea i know what a 200 shot does, but from tom and others i have been told max power is (ok) as long as you know what your doing. People run superchargers and 200 shots on stock bottom ends with no problem, i just want to know if itll be ok as long as air/fuel conditions are good
Andrew2KRT10
Enthusiast
Wow, that Auto Bottle opener. I hate those things. I took mine off ause I couldn't really hear if it was going open or not. I didn't trust it and always went to the trunk to check myself. Now I have the inboard guage, but still I go through bottles so quick, to change the opener was always a PITA.
AC
AC
true, i dunno ill see how it is, i dont think viper D has the gasoline injection BTR part of the kit as I do I think he just has the propane and nitrous, I have a front mount gas cell that injects gas with the nitrous and propane, im going to be using 118 and our motors are good for 800+ from what I have been told... My supra motor made 830 with stock internals except cams and 35+ psi so a 300 shot hopefully wont be any feat
ACELLR8
Enthusiast
I would think if you are running that high of octane gas and go with a 1 or 2 step colder plug you would be fine. I have been running the 200 shot in my Gen I for a few years now. Lauri (Redenuff93) has been running a 300 shot for quite a while now on a stock motor.
I was with him when he dynoed with a 200 shot and a 300 shot. I think he only picked up an additional 20 HP at the wheels with the 300 shot vs the 200 shot. I am not sure the 20 extra HP is worth using 1/3 more nitrous.
I would think best bet is to try it on the dyno and see where your AF is at and what HP gains you get. I always thought that propane was a higher octane than regular gas any way's.
I was with him when he dynoed with a 200 shot and a 300 shot. I think he only picked up an additional 20 HP at the wheels with the 300 shot vs the 200 shot. I am not sure the 20 extra HP is worth using 1/3 more nitrous.
I would think best bet is to try it on the dyno and see where your AF is at and what HP gains you get. I always thought that propane was a higher octane than regular gas any way's.
ACELLR8
Enthusiast
I forgot the SRT's are cast piston cars. I guess that would make me a little more cautious.
I did see a post on the other forum, where Tom from BTR say's he is gonna run a 300 shot on his coupe. On a stock car I am not sure the HP gains over stock would be worth the risk.
I did see a post on the other forum, where Tom from BTR say's he is gonna run a 300 shot on his coupe. On a stock car I am not sure the HP gains over stock would be worth the risk.
tom told me that it would be "ok" after I got used to using a 200 shot and what not. My supra used to have 44+ psi of boost and a 100 shot on cast pistons and i never had a problem. I am going to be using 118 fuel with propane as well and i have a wideband to monitor. I am going to keep the 200 shot in it until i get used to it, but iam going to dyno the car stock with exhaust, 200 shot, then 300 shot. Worst that i would have to do is shut down the car. If there is any risk I wont do it. Tom said he doesnt recommend it for a beginner, but would be safe at max power but you would have to be very cautious, we shall see...
BigCarrot
Enthusiast
I wouldn't do it! Your Poopra had a completely different motor than this car as you obviously know. You keep making references to it, so I figured I'd make sure. I had a 300 shot on my 99, but it had forged pistons. The biggest problem isn't really that the pistons are cast, it's how high up the ring lands are on the cast pistons. I dusted nine pistons in my 2001 with nitrous, so I'm no rookie. I thought I knew everything there was to know about nitrous, so I wasn't scared of it. Wrong. Beginner or not, you're playing with fire when you use nitrous. You're playing with a forest fire when you try to use too much and push the limits. Tom is VERY experienced with it, so he may have the nuts to try it, but I would advise against it. Do what you want with my two cents.
tom stated that with the 200 shot I dont even need to use gasoline injection and what i have been told by others and tom the 300 shot requires the gasoline injection. If people are running 800+ hp and 800+ torque with twin turbo kits on stock blocks and around 800 with a supercharger i dont think running a 300 shot is that bad. I plan on running just a 200 shot for the most part but i am going to run it with a 300 shot on the dyno and see what happens. From reading the board and talking with many people there are many cars in the 800+ range on stock blocks with no problems. I have a wide band and a fuel safety cut off switch. I know i dont know everything but we shall see how it goes. No one has really done it yet with the new vipers so someone needs to test it out.
Tom states this on his website
TWO STAGE-NOS-Gasoline-Propane…For gains up to 300+ Rear Wheel Horsepower and 500+ Rear Wheel Torque - $ 2,990.00
"For the Connoisseur. Our newest combination of power that when installed is unmatched in power and torque by ANY product for your Viper at ANY price! Bolt this on your stock Viper for incredible gains with NO ill effects as air fuel ratios with the gas-propane combination are very conservative, compression is not increased, cylinder temperature and pressures are far lower than those of other forced induction type power adders and the price for dollars gained is second to none in our industry. This kit includes all of the features of our Nitrous-Gasoline-Propane kit plus; Dual Soft Flume Fogger injectors, dual solenoids, dual braided feed lines, required electrical connections, second stage activation and more."
TWO STAGE-NOS-Gasoline-Propane…For gains up to 300+ Rear Wheel Horsepower and 500+ Rear Wheel Torque - $ 2,990.00
"For the Connoisseur. Our newest combination of power that when installed is unmatched in power and torque by ANY product for your Viper at ANY price! Bolt this on your stock Viper for incredible gains with NO ill effects as air fuel ratios with the gas-propane combination are very conservative, compression is not increased, cylinder temperature and pressures are far lower than those of other forced induction type power adders and the price for dollars gained is second to none in our industry. This kit includes all of the features of our Nitrous-Gasoline-Propane kit plus; Dual Soft Flume Fogger injectors, dual solenoids, dual braided feed lines, required electrical connections, second stage activation and more."
he never returns my phone calls and I have to email him like 4 times to ever get a response back. I had to wait over a month and a half to get the nitrous kit or somewhere around there, and I was missing fittings and stuff. I mean when you spend over 6000 dollars on parts you expect to get a little better treatment then that... this whole nitrous install has made me sick to my stomach because it has put so much stress on my dad, mechanics, and myself. I wish someone else had the same exact kit who could help me, pretty much everyone has just the nitrous/propane kit, not the two stage nitrous/gas/propane
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
With a 300 shot you might be running on the ragged edge.
Without an experienced tuner on site and with a complete knowledge of your system I would say you are on the ragged edge.
If something goes wrong it will go South in a hurry.
Are you just doing this to get a big # on a dyno. If that is the case you are taking a significant risk for little reward.
Viper motors are very stout, and respond well to Nos, Turbo's and Superchargers, however lots of people have pushed too far, and needed significant motor work after finding the limits exceeded.
People on this site are trying to warn you, but it seems your mind is made up. Please let us know the results of your dyno runs.
Lots of people have Paxton's installed, and run +800 hp, but 99% of their running time is at significantly lower boost.
Without an experienced tuner on site and with a complete knowledge of your system I would say you are on the ragged edge.
If something goes wrong it will go South in a hurry.
Are you just doing this to get a big # on a dyno. If that is the case you are taking a significant risk for little reward.
Viper motors are very stout, and respond well to Nos, Turbo's and Superchargers, however lots of people have pushed too far, and needed significant motor work after finding the limits exceeded.
People on this site are trying to warn you, but it seems your mind is made up. Please let us know the results of your dyno runs.
Lots of people have Paxton's installed, and run +800 hp, but 99% of their running time is at significantly lower boost.
yea in a way im doing the same thing, i plan on just using a 200 shot until i master it and if its safe then go to a 300 shot, it all depends and im going to play it by year. My tuner is very experienced with nitrous and has installed everything from old school to brand new nitrous kits on everything from vipers to evos to supras to muscle cars ect... Tom states on his website how there will be no ill effects and how ratios are conservative, so we shall see...
this is what tom said in the email
"Jet 52nos 40 gas, Jet 48nos 48 propane for max power. I do NOT recommend jetting this big until you are intimately familiar with your car and how it responds to nitrous. I can't be held responsible for damage caused by max power jetting (or any jetting settings for that matter) and suggest that you take it easy until you learn more about how your new setup works."
Which I totally agree with him on what he says, but its a little contradictory to what the website says no? A couple of tuners that I know of said as long as everything is set up and im using race fuel and tuned right I should be ok.
If I were able to contact him for the past long time id know what I need to know and I havent been able to. There arent really too many people who have used this kit with the 2 stage so it is hard to find out my answers and hes the only guy who really knows.
He said hell be in tomorrow (wed) so hopefully he will answer my phone call. I take my car in on thur and dyno it fri so im going to be pretty upset if i cant contact him by them.
Tom overall is a nice guy and has a great kit/product, but his customer service is lacking a little and when you spend over 6000+ you expect maybe a call back or two even though they are busy and not just emails, and I had to wait a month and a half for my nitrous kit....
"Jet 52nos 40 gas, Jet 48nos 48 propane for max power. I do NOT recommend jetting this big until you are intimately familiar with your car and how it responds to nitrous. I can't be held responsible for damage caused by max power jetting (or any jetting settings for that matter) and suggest that you take it easy until you learn more about how your new setup works."
Which I totally agree with him on what he says, but its a little contradictory to what the website says no? A couple of tuners that I know of said as long as everything is set up and im using race fuel and tuned right I should be ok.
If I were able to contact him for the past long time id know what I need to know and I havent been able to. There arent really too many people who have used this kit with the 2 stage so it is hard to find out my answers and hes the only guy who really knows.
He said hell be in tomorrow (wed) so hopefully he will answer my phone call. I take my car in on thur and dyno it fri so im going to be pretty upset if i cant contact him by them.
Tom overall is a nice guy and has a great kit/product, but his customer service is lacking a little and when you spend over 6000+ you expect maybe a call back or two even though they are busy and not just emails, and I had to wait a month and a half for my nitrous kit....
BigCarrot
Enthusiast
The problem with nitrous is that it's never the same when you push the button. Temp, nitrous pressure, propane pressure, how full each of those tanks are, clogged jets.... they are all variables. Unless you have everything perfect, things can go wrong. If you're running at the ragged edge and something goes wrong, you're screwed. When I had the direct port 300 shot on my '99, I had EVERY safety precautionary device known to man. Fuel pressure cutoff, O2 sensor that shut it down under lean conditions, electronic pressure guage, independent fuel system with race gas, Maximizer (computer controller), timing retard, window switch, you name it! Oh, and I had forged pistons! I covered everything, and you should too if you plan on slapping a huge shot of nitrous on a very expensive car.
BigCarrot
Enthusiast
Tom does this as more of a hobby. He's a pilot by day, and does this on the side. That's why he's a little hard to contact sometimes.
well i have the fuel pressure cut off, independent fuel system with race gas, and wideband and plan on getting a window switch, if i have any doubts i wont do it and ill know by thur, i plan on just spraying 200 when at the street/track, but just wanted to spray once on 300 to see how everything goes...
guy I know in south florida, hes not on this board, i dunno if he wants me to post up exactly what color and who he is so im not going to say that much, but its not something i pulled out of my butt to convince myself a 300 shot was safe lol. I just know what he has i dont hang out with the guy too much.
VIPER D
Viper Owner
fyi.
A 50 shot of n20 on a blown car is the = of 150 shot. due to the pressure load (psi)
vd..
A 50 shot of n20 on a blown car is the = of 150 shot. due to the pressure load (psi)
vd..
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