wastntim
Enthusiast
With all the talk about the expense of NA power, I am wondering what the cost of replacing with cast with forged? Typical install cost? I know the Roe is about $7k plus install and tune.
Cost to go forged
- Thread starter wastntim
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dun4791
Viper Owner
From the tuners Ive talked to lately the job is about 6-7K total if all you want is forged pistons, all the way to 13K for a built shortblock able to handle 1500rwhp.
Im considering these mods on a cast car.
Paxton at 5-6 lbs. / front mount intercooler.
rockers / pushrods
cat delete / (already have Corsa catback)
key or pin crank
fuel upgrades-pump and return line
SCT or VEC (dont know yet)
power steering bracket/pulley
tstat
Should be safe with a good tune and around 550-575 rwhp all for around 15K total. Or if you just want to go with the Paxton and nothing else, you could get the job done for about 10K and be safe at around 500-550 rwhp on a cast.
Talked to two tuners today, and both recommended going this way over the heads/cam 550-575 rwhp way. Going to talk to two others tomorrow hopefully.
Im considering these mods on a cast car.
Paxton at 5-6 lbs. / front mount intercooler.
rockers / pushrods
cat delete / (already have Corsa catback)
key or pin crank
fuel upgrades-pump and return line
SCT or VEC (dont know yet)
power steering bracket/pulley
tstat
Should be safe with a good tune and around 550-575 rwhp all for around 15K total. Or if you just want to go with the Paxton and nothing else, you could get the job done for about 10K and be safe at around 500-550 rwhp on a cast.
Talked to two tuners today, and both recommended going this way over the heads/cam 550-575 rwhp way. Going to talk to two others tomorrow hopefully.
Viper Wizard
Enthusiast
What ever you do DO NOT USE Diamond pistons! They are JUNK and the company *****!!
I use here CP coated pistons and to do just a piston change, it would cost you $5500-$6500.
I use here CP coated pistons and to do just a piston change, it would cost you $5500-$6500.
wastntim
Enthusiast
Did they give some reasons?
What ever you do DO NOT USE Diamond pistons! They are JUNK and the company *****!!
I use here CP coated pistons and to do just a piston change, it would cost you $5500-$6500.
I have to concur with that, and CP is all we use here as well- fantastic product.
The ONLY time to use Diamond is on an 04-06 SRT-10 if you dont change the rods... as the rods will still be weaker than the Diamond pistons. On a Gen-2, its a toss-up between the forged pistons and stock rods, but either way, if you are after big power, do it right and do everything while you are in there.
Chuck: Regarding Coatings, give me a jingle one of these days, we deal with a different coating company that puts CP's coatings to SHAME! In fact, they laughed when they saw CP's coatings, as whoever they outsource them to copied their "look" with the coating colors and finish. They are a little bit more money, but if I showed you the abuse some of these have endured... you would shake your head in amazement.
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...and cam, rockers, lifters, etc. I had a nice discussion about this with Greg Good.
He says thanks for the referral Phil. I finally followed up with him.
...and cam, rockers, lifters, etc. I had a nice discussion about this with Greg Good.
LOL, thats how it always goes- but it only makes sense. The labor to do it twice will overshadow most extra costs. May as well just do it while you are there.
1MEANSNAKE
Enthusiast
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I had my engine done at Welcome to Underground Racing =) at just over 1000hp and 17lbs of boost, I have a newfound love for my GTS....Call Kevin, He will give you a quote!
70chall440
Enthusiast
Just my $.02 and I am sure I am going to get beat up on this but... I have a dyno sheet for my car which is basically stock at 430 at the rear wheel. It sure seems like a lot of money being quoted to get an additional 50 - 100HP. Now I realize it is all relative but it would seem that for $5K + you would/should get more than 50 HP. Perhaps the car is so far along that it takes that much? I do know from my old drag racing days that big power gains are easy in the beginning but you quickly get to a point where it takes thousands to go even a little faster.
chimazo
Enthusiast
I agree - a lot of Viper owners have excess $$ to pour into their cars, and the limited aftermarket vendors seem to capitalize on this. Some of it can be explained by the relatively low # of Vipers, so the market to recoup any investment is limited.
For its displacement, the Viper is a poor performing engine in terms of generating HP, but it is because the stock heads' crappy flow. Unfortunately, the only aftermarket heads that I am aware of are the Strikers, and at ~$6500 (including Jesel rockers), the cost per HP is not great. I'm not knocking the excellent product, but the bang for the buck isn't there. It's not like the Corvette camp that can choose from 10 different LSx heads manufacturers, for under $2500/set, or twin-turbo kits for $7k.
I don't understand the reluctance of the cast-piston owners to go with the Roe, Paxton, or even TT. Z06's have a MUCH higher CR and there are a ton of them running FI and putting down 550-600rwhp on cast pistons. For the $$, you can't beat FI, imo.
Sorry, but I take excetion to your "poor performing engine" comment. Being the highest performance output for any n/a engine ever built you're wrong. With a hemi head or DOHC heads it would perform better, but Chrysler wasn't trying to make more hp than they did. They improved the heads slightly and make 600hp.
I understand the heads are a recreation of the W2 race heads with smaller valves. They're good heads and their design incorporated torque and driveability. Like any (except maybe the 08s) the heads gain 50hp from a porting job. Bigger gains with FI.
For an extra $35,000+ you can buy a sc'd vette with only 20hp more than the n/a Viper engine.
For a lot more money they could have used DOHC and 4 valves and then built a smaller engine? I think what they did was perfect and that's why I bought one, and continue to make it better. If I wanted better heads only I would have bought a vette - not.
Ted
chimazo
Enthusiast
I'm not going to debate the poor head design - flow #'s don't lie and saying they are based on an almost 40yr old design isn't saying much when there has been so much development in port and quench/chamber design.
Likewise, a 488ci engine putting down ~400rwhp (remember, we're talking about GEN2's here) when you have stock 346-370ci engines from both GM and Mopar putting down 360-380rwhp is a further example of the heads' inefficiency in stock form.
Likewise, a 488ci engine putting down ~400rwhp (remember, we're talking about GEN2's here) when you have stock 346-370ci engines from both GM and Mopar putting down 360-380rwhp is a further example of the heads' inefficiency in stock form.
I second this. Greg explained a LOT to me and yes it was around half of the cost. We went into the 'might as wells' too but for what I want to do his heads will be just fine and then some.
D
DAMN YANKEE
Guest
Going to do all ten? You could just do one side this year and save 50%. Ah what?....really, all ten every time?...oh....never mind.
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Was that intended for me or someone else DY?
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