Don't run K&N filters???

[cagleman]

Don\'t run K&N filters???

Is my Viper Tech full of crap or what? When I brought it in a month ago, I told him I was going to order K&N's to replace the stock filters. He cringed. He said that, due to the filters being oil injected (would that be the right word?) that, over time you would get a build up of crud in the TBs. I told him (and he was aware) that probably 95% of the folks I have heard from (you guys) use K&N's and swear by them. He said to stick with the factory air filters or Purolator. Well, I put Purolators in, but I can't help but feel I am missing out on something.

Could I get you guys opinion on his comments? Thanks.

 

[Anaconda]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Sure, that will happen, if you overload the filter with oil. If you follow the instructions, and put a light coating on, it will be fine.

Not to mention, you can clean throttle bodies with a quick blast of carb. cleaner.

 

[ACR steve]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Just dont over lube them after you clean them

 

[cagleman]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Silly question....but will I notice any appreciable difference by replacing the purolators (or stock ones) with K&N's?

 

[snampro]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

I've been playing with the filters in my car. I got it with K&N filters that were nasty dirty. I could tell a difference when I cleaned them. I recently switched to fram filters (CA8093) and again believe I can feel a difference, but its not huge.

 

[FlyBryViper]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Service K&N fiters per thier instructions and you will not have any problems because of the K&N filters.
You can still get a build-up inside the throttle bodies regardless of the filters. The PCV vents to the air box, in front of the throttle bodies.
Dodge thought enough of the K&N filters to factory install the on the ACr cars, along with the smooth inlet tubes and rated the engines +10 H.P.
Also, K&N is a Viper Days sponsor and the owner has several Vipers, so he is an enthusiast as well.

 

[BigCarrot]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Your Viper tech needs to go back to school. As stated above, even if you do get a film built up, it only takes about 2 minutes to clean the throttle bodies!

 

[Ron]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

What is the part number of the Purolators?

Thanks

 

[JonB]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Sure, that will happen, if you overload the filter with oil. If you follow the instructions, and put a light coating on, it will be fine.
Not to mention, you can clean throttle bodies with a quick blast of carb. cleaner.

BINGO !

K+Ns "Breathe" better, but you have to clean them when they get dirty.
I prefer to have a clean set waiting in the wings... The throttle response and exhaust note are different, and you ARE missing out on this....

 

[IEATVETS]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Your mechanic is a putz!

 

[ViperJoe]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

All you have to do is SEARCH

This one isn't even a month old!

Note the comments on Fram vs Mopar air filters and the use of oil analysis on K&N car


http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=611734&Forum=UBB14&Words=air%20filters&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=3months&Main=611734&Search=true#Post611734

Maybe your tech reads this forum more that you!

 

[Steve-Indy]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

ViperJoe...let me suggest that the silicon levels noted by Ron in his sequential oil analysis report is indeed interesting, though it refers to only one Viper. As I have been following 5 Vipers' oil changes regularly (all of which have K&N air filters)I view the silicon issue a little differently, and have therefore drawn a different conclusion than my GOOD FRIEND, Ron...noting that we use the SAME lab and converse regularly on this issue.

Initial silicon levels of two differeft 2001 GTS's measured at the 200 mile oil change (factory fill was Mobil 1 10W-30) were 40 and 38 respectively, with a 2002 Viper reading 36 at a similar mileage on it's factory fill oil.

Over the next oil changes on the two 2001 GTS's, the silicon level fell from 40 to 14 then 8 then 8 then 8 then 7...over 5500miles, all with K&N's in place.

The second 2001 Viper fell from 38 to 28 then 11 then six, noting that the 28 was at 1000 miles point.

Three of our other Vipers have tested at 3, 5, 6, 6 5, 5, 5, 3, 8, .....all with K&N's.

Note that all are still using Mobil 1 10W-30 oil...BUT that the formulations have evolved over the past 5 years from Trisynthetic, to SuperSyN, to Advanced SuperSyn, etc.

OF REAL INTEREST is that the ****** oil samples that I sent in for analysis PRIOR TO USING ANY NEW OIL in a Viper, have some silicon IN THE FRESH BOTTLES of the SuperSyn (3) and the Advanced SuperSyn (5).

Knowing that the later iterations of the oil tested with silicone levels in the 3-5 range, I PERSONALLY can NOT say that K&N's have accererated the silicone levels in our Vipers.

Lots more data is really needed to settle this, and Ron and I will keep at it !!!

 

[2000gtsgsxr1000]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

I've got two new in box I will sell.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

You know what we really need???

We need a large, controlled study of Vipers running the air filter of owner's choice...BUT, with a detailed log of the driving record (mileage and driving conditionsd!!!...BOTH of which are important "flaws" in the data I presented above) and exact type of oil/oil filter used along with same-lab oil analysis as well as any maintenance performed on the filters (this may be tough to quantify as there is a learning curve/art to this procedure). Then MAYBE we can start to sort out the facts from fiction/"impressions"/etc. This would take a while, especially since weather limits Viper driving in many areas over the winter months.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

I run Amsoil foam air filters, which are oiled as well. I have done oil analysis on my car since new(55,000 miles). I just happen to run the Amsoil a little longer than most run whatever other oil they do. I've had the same filters on the car since 2000 and 1952 miles on the car. My last analysis,with 9,945 miles on the oil, showed silicon to be 5. Blackstone was the facility. Since testing began in 2000 at 7,500 miles , my silicon levels have run between 3 & 11. I clean and oil the filters once a year--just before hibernation. An 8 oz bottle of oil is only $4 bucks and lasts for about 3 cleanings. I'll have to say, I'm not crazy about the cleaning and oiling part. There are other simple factors which could contribute to higher silicon numbers as reported above. Filters not seated properly, air box clip broken, air box top and bottom pieces not mated well. Oil analysis proved this to be the case on a pick up truck I had. Silicon came back at 56, having been much lower previously. At the previous oil change, the Quick Lube place had taken my air box apart to check the filter(which I forgot to tell them was foam) and didn't tighten the clamp back. Tightening solved the problem. Amsoil has a new nanofiber/non-foam / non-oiled air filter out which they are touting. However; it's not available for Vipers.

Steve

 

[nancyshanno]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

RE The silicon mystery, there may be a correlation to the engine age, as Steve pointed out; of the high silicon content samples most were from initial fill drains or low mile engines. This leads to the probability that the silicon traces are from the assembly process or the new gaskets that touch the crankcase oil.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Hi,Steve...and THANKS for the excellent info. I must admit that I am more likely to switch to new filters than to regularly clean the old ones...my bad !!!

And THANK YOU Nancy...good points !! It's been way too long since we've gotten a chance to visit...Happy Thanksgiving !!!

 

[cagleman]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Ron, the part number for the purolators is A14837.

Thanks for the comments guys. Guess it scared me off from K&Ns when my tech told me not to use them. Think I will give them a try.

 

[Ron]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Thanks Cagleman

 

[01sapphireGTS]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

The Acell part number for the Kool Blue filter is KP3013 (which you will need two of), and the cleaning/oil kit is KK1212. (for my 2001)

 

[Randy]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Note that at least one model of Viper's came with K&N's, stock: the limited 100-run commemorative GT-2 model in 1998 (well, actually 102 were made, but thats a different story).

I installed K&N's while my otherwise completely stock 1995 RT/10 was strapped to the dyno, between two dyno runs. Peak horsepower increased by 11 horsepower at the rear wheels, from 357 to 368. The horsepower and torque increased all across the curve, hp looks to be an 11 hp increase everywhere and a visibly similar shift in the torque curve.

It was one of the very first changes I made to my Gen II car.

Was it noticable? Not to my seat-of-the-pants meter, but is perhaps noticable when lining up against a comparable car; realize this is only about a 3% increase. So, if you feel its a risk, you aren't really missing out on much. If you feel as I do that its not an appreciable risk, then its the easiest and cheapest bang-for-the-buck horsepower increase you can perform on your Viper - about $10/hp (smooth tubes net around 3 hp for anywhere from $10/hp to $20/hp), NOS is a fair amount more if you do it right, then there is everything else. )

 

[Steve-Indy]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

All of the 1999 ACR's came with K&N's. Our ACR has just under 9000 miles on it...and, silicon level in oil changed this summer was 6 (keeping in mind that this Viper had Mobil 1 10W-30 SuperSyn in it...and that the oil sample from the Mobil 1 bottle had a silicon reading of 5 without ever being in an engine!!). Certainly no evidence for a K&N air filter problem here...at least in MY opinion.

We REALLY DO need more data before any real definitive statements can be made.

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Note that at least one model of Viper's came with K&N's, stock: the limited 100-run commemorative GT-2 model in 1998 (well, actually 102 were made, but thats a different story).

I installed K&N's while my otherwise completely stock 1995 RT/10 was strapped to the dyno, between two dyno runs. Peak horsepower increased by 11 horsepower at the rear wheels, from 357 to 368. The horsepower and torque increased all across the curve, hp looks to be an 11 hp increase everywhere and a visibly similar shift in the torque curve.

It was one of the very first changes I made to my Gen II car.

Was it noticable? Not to my seat-of-the-pants meter, but is perhaps noticable when lining up against a comparable car; realize this is only about a 3% increase. So, if you feel its a risk, you aren't really missing out on much. If you feel as I do that its not an appreciable risk, then its the easiest and cheapest bang-for-the-buck horsepower increase you can perform on your Viper - about $10/hp (smooth tubes net around 3 hp for anywhere from $10/hp to $20/hp), NOS is a fair amount more if you do it right, then there is everything else. )
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Makes sense to me. Even a 2% increase in hp from a K&N filter in a 450 hp engine will lead to almost 10 hp. It's all a matter of scale. I chose K&N's simply for better filtration to protect my investment.

 

[V 10 MAFIA]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Actually you shouldn't run any filters. They all restrict air flow in some way resulting loss in power. Always run an auxilary hose from your air conditioner straight to the intake throttle bodies. Thats good for another 20HP.
When throttle bodies get dirty, delete them (again, they are another thing that is restrictive) and then run straight fuel into the intake. Hence another 20HP. Caution: car will pull really, really hard off the line.

Charlie T.
NY/CT Scientist

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Actually you shouldn't run any filters. They all restrict air flow in some way resulting loss in power. Always run an auxilary hose from your air conditioner straight to the intake throttle bodies. Thats good for another 20HP.
When throttle bodies get dirty, delete them (again, they are another thing that is restrictive) and then run straight fuel into the intake. Hence another 20HP. Caution: car will pull really, really hard off the line.

Charlie T.
NY/CT Scientist

That's total BS. There is no benefit to anything you wrote unless the muffler bearings are removed and the defibulator bypassed.

 

[V 10 MAFIA]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Actually you shouldn't run any filters. They all restrict air flow in some way resulting loss in power. Always run an auxilary hose from your air conditioner straight to the intake throttle bodies. Thats good for another 20HP.
When throttle bodies get dirty, delete them (again, they are another thing that is restrictive) and then run straight fuel into the intake. Hence another 20HP. Caution: car will pull really, really hard off the line.

Charlie T.
NY/CT Scientist

That's total BS. There is no benefit to anything you wrote unless the muffler bearings are removed and the defibulator bypassed.

Oversight on my part, I don't know how I missed these.

 

[Anaconda]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

Always run an auxilary hose from your air conditioner straight to the intake throttle bodies.

Just a tip, but the nut holding the hose on is 10.5 mm. Most tool kits don't come with 10.5 mm sockets, so you may need to use a metric crescent wrench. I got one from Harbor Freight, and they even had a left-handed one for me, because I am a lefty. It was $9.99, but I had a coupon for a dollar off, so it was only $8.99.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

I got one from Harbor Freight, and they even had a left-handed one for me, because I am a lefty.

Suckaaaaaaa! Harbor Freight must've seen you coming a mile away. I'm right-handed and my left-handed cresent wrench works just fine for me.

 

[IEATVETS]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[01sapphireGTS]

Re: Don\'t run K&N filters???

If you stripped the paint off your car, removed the exhaust system, emptied the washer fluid - 1/2 of the coolant - 1/2 of the brake fluid, removed the passenger seat, spare tire, and steareo amp, you would see SIGNIFICANT weight savings and overcome any intake restriction you may think you have. This way you wouldn't have to re-oil anything as the miles click by and would have very clean intake throttle bodies...

Just a thought. I'm going to pick up a D/A at harbour freight today and get started.