Elite Motorsports Side of the Story

[prosportsrep]

Ron

thanks for the reply. I am not upset or hostile. I simply joined this club to learn more about the cars and meet like minded people. Its like a soap opera. Its strange that when I use the post to ask about "how to?" or "where can I get this or that?", one person if I was lucky would actually respond or point me in the right direction. However, when it comes to disputes there are no shortage of members helping with that.

I dont know or care about the stories of either one of these. I came here to get help with my car and find organized activities that I could participate in. Instead while everyone was sharing their experience I shared mine and got several replies that were less than nice. More like "lucky you", "but what about me?"

We are all grown men here. If I had a problem and I could substainiate it I would try to work it out privately and if all attempts failed would simply have a court sort it out. If there is merrit in these claims than they should go work it out.

Like everyone else here I wanted to learn about my car and have some fun. We all have invested great amount of money in these vehicles and things happen. But it appeared to me that only negative remarks are of use. I appreciate the boost from one of the parties involved in his response.

I will go back under my rock. Its called the real world. Where crap happens and people have to work things out. We all know the alternative. COURT!

 

[1TONY1]

Yea Lou. Just looked at the enlarged picture. What are you referring to as combustion marks? I was expecting to see scuffed pistons, or detonation damage but all I see is some goo which does not look like a combustion by-product at all (maybe an assembly lube or something).

I even had to save the pic and look at it in my paint program to see it close up. In the pic on the link it's hard to see what it looks like when it is BIG.

 

[prosportsrep]

Ron

thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. While it was not what I was expecting I still appreciate you taking the time. Obviously, I am not going to turn in my United States citizenship. But understand your point.
I posted twice before both requesting help on locating certain parts and was lucky to get one response. But bring up Scott or Elite or this debacle and look out------ they all come out swinging.
Once again thanks for taking the time- I mean that. I will take Lou' suggestion and go back under my rock. Someone PM me where there is actually a organized viper event or a forum of knowledge that will help me learn about my cars and how to improve them or a mixter where I can meet others interested in the same thing. I have enough stress in my life. thanks to everyone and wish you all good luck with your individual situations.

Kristian Krempel

 

[nofearracer]

Well I hate to be a smart a** but there is one question that has been on my mind since this started on here. Lou, why did you buy a 2001 car that just had the engine rebuilt in the first place?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Kristian. I cannot recall any posts that you are referring to but I can tell you that I have been helped many times here. Everything from tire pressures, how to remove side sills on an SRT (that was a learning experience!), finding out how to get the top right transmission bolt out in the middle of the night, etc. Some questions do get old for those that have been around, and I understand that. But this still seems to be the best place to learn about our cars.

As far as how the forum treats the vendors I can say I have not been pleased. Every vendor has been bashed at one time or another. Some even to the point where they have been banned from the site (Hennesssey). I think we have a lot to improve in that regard as we are too quick to jump on the bandwagon without the personal experience to justify our comments. The other aspect that was not pleasing was the anti-SRT comments that were rampant about 2 years ago. Thankfully that settled down to a more reasonable level (some due to the most vocal exiting and starting up their own website). I guess I am saying that we need to find a way to tone down our attacks on the suppliers of our aftermarket products. Without them we would be stuck with boring pure production vehicles Maybe not boring but the aftermarket products certainly enhance our ownership experience. If we continue to bash and dismantle every new supplier that comes along we will only hurt ourselves. Without a strong competitive base Viper product costs will increase, and availability decrease. As such I believe disputes like the one referenced in this thread should be handled directly between the parties or through an intermediary. Only as a last resort should the dirty laundry be aired here.

My $0.02

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

I'm not even reading all this, all I wanted to do was to buy a pillar-guage pod for my rt/10. I heard Elite has this.....e-mail me.

Andrew

 

[Mark Red GTS Cooper]

Hope it fits,,

 

[Joseph Dell]

Get the mustang 94-95 gauge pod. It is cheaper and fits the same.

Good luck!

JD

 

[Mark Red GTS Cooper]

Hey JD,, long time,, Don't you love all this,, If you ever want a good laugh, I can send you some pics not posted,

Mark

 

[Shelby3]

Kristian, Are you a Democrat?

 

[Vic]

Kristian, most everyone you run into on the internet is a much nicer person when you are face to face. You just have to understand that the internet allows wide leeway for slamming, smack, juvenile jackassery, and complaining. Its the nature of the medium! Don't sweat it!

You can still get genuine questions answered, and learn more about your car, and make new friends. All that still applies. The jackassery doesn't prevent that, it just goes along with an internet site. Its new the paradigm...Don't be surprised if a bunch of disgruntled customers pile on a slow service provider, its to be expected.

Airing experiences with vendors helps potential victims, uh, I mean customers, to choose wisely. I wonder how many "rubes" (carnival term) have been saved the frustration and money by not doing business with a certain notable tuner. If not for the ability to air experiences on the internet, this certain unscrupulous tuner would no doubt have taken many more for a long ride.

A sports rep, huh? Like a real life Jerry McGuire...cool

 

[BadVenm]

So far all I know about Scott's promise of a 10 second car is that I beat a 1300cc Suzuki from a 20 MPH rolling start on my second test drive in the car. BTW, I had 20 inch wheels on it and the stock 3:07 rear end at the time of the Hyabusa whoopin'. That's a good sign.

I'm just waiting on proof of the second half of his promise the actual perfomance of a 10.5 second car.

Sorry in advance....but.....if that was a hayabusa then it or the rider has problems OR your car is way faster than a 10.50. Is this a power adder package or what ?? Give us details. I'm not to sure about sending parts out with a guaranteed 1/4 mile time.....to many variables.

Just got back from our VCA meeting! Great food, great people. 3 or 4 new cars and 3 or 4 new members!!! What a great club KC is!

Tony,

In my post earlier in this thread I was trying to stick up for Scott to the extent that I could.

I have only one thing left to see if what he sold me is actually what I got.

What Scott sold me on, and I bought, was a promise, that if I had any driving skills at all that his package will run 10.5 sec 1/4 mile times.

Scott said that he had "many" of these packages out there and it is a "proven combo."

Scott designed everything top to bottom. I took him at his word, why wouldn't I? At the time I met him, I looked to him as a respected tuner in the community.

If all goes well, and I get my stock 18" wheels and tires back by about noon on the 1st, I will be at grudge night at the local drag strip to see how the car does.

Past that I plan on attending a V-10 Nat if I can, and if I can't get the car into the 10's, I will ask one of the professional drivers to hop in and see what they can do. That will be the final test to see if I got what I paid for or not.

As far as what is the package? It's all motor, naturally asperated. No blower, no turbo, no nitros, torn down to the block and put it back together with Scotts stuff. Anything more than that needs to come from Scott, it's his design, and he charges good money for it. (plus I don't know that much that I could give away anyway)

As for the bike comments, I assume a 1300cc Suzuki is a hayabusa, maybe they make others that are 1300cc. As to the riders skills? Who knows for sure. In a post about the bike kill I said I assumed they knew what they were doing atop a bike. They were not the surfer boy, sandle, shorts, no helmet types. They all had color and design matched padded leather jackets to thier bikes, color and design matched helmets too, etc... They were pulling 60 MPH wheelies on the highway and running up to 100MPH on one wheel, then the stoppie on the front tire, etc.... They showed off for miles before they baited me into street racing.

Right now for Scott's sake I think things are looking pretty bright on the deal, it feels real strong, it RPM's in a milisecond, I like what I'm seeing and feeling. But street feel and track results are a huge difference. I just hope all tests out at the strip as Scott promised, 10.5 second 1/4 mile. If it's not, I got ripped off! As I told Scott, 11.00 seconds is NOT the same as 10.5.

Oh yea, Scott has responed via e-mail to handle questions since completion on Wed of last week. I couldn't get through via phone on Monday for some reason.

 

[britospeed]

BadVenm, what were your dyno numbers? Who did the final tune on the car, as that tune could be the difference between 12sec and 10.5sec. If possible when you go to the track bolt on a set of ET streets you'll see better times then on your 18's.
Michael

 

[lleone]

Ron and Tony, I couldn't post to my server this morning so I sent you both emails with a cropped pic of the area in question. You'll see it's not goo.

Lou (Hey, I rhyme with goo!)

 

[Steve Ferguson]

did some posts get deleted or am I missing something? The person maaking the noise is listed as Viper Owner, not VCA member, so how is the problem caused by the VCA?

 

[patgilm]

BadVenm, what were your dyno numbers? Promising 10.5 second quarter mile times are tough as alot has to do with the driver (which you already said you should be pretty good) but at least you could use your dyno numbers to at least see results of what you paid for.

 

[1TONY1]

Ron and Tony, I couldn't post to my server this morning so I sent you both emails with a cropped pic of the area in question. You'll see it's not goo.

Lou (Hey, I rhyme with goo!)

I think I understand now. It's not the "stuff" on the side of the piston, it's the dark areas on top.....which is normal (usually worse) on a used pist. Your saying it should not be there on a new piston.

 

[1TONY1]

[quote


What Scott sold me on, and I bought, was a promise, that if I had any driving skills at all that his package will run 10.5 sec 1/4 mile times.

If all goes well, and I get my stock 18" wheels and tires back by about noon on the 1st, I will be at grudge night at the local drag strip to see how the car does.


As far as what is the package? It's all motor, naturally asperated. No blower, no turbo, no nitros, torn down to the block and put it back together with Scotts stuff.


Right now for Scott's sake I think things are looking pretty bright on the deal, it feels real strong, it RPM's in a milisecond, I like what I'm seeing and feeling. But street feel and track results are a huge difference. I just hope all tests out at the strip as Scott promised, 10.5 second 1/4 mile. If it's not, I got ripped off! As I told Scott, 11.00 seconds is NOT the same as 10.5.


[/QUOTE]

From what I gather, you are holding the heads hostage for a 10.50 pass ?? You mentioned your stock wheels/tires.....just curious, are you expecting 10.50's on stock tires or a drag radial/et street ? Even more important.....what tire did Scott say you would need to run ? I wish you AND Scott all the best on a 10.50 pass.

 

[Torquemonster]

BadVenm - in fairness to Scott - and not of course knowing what he told you other than what is posted here - to run a 10.5 on all motor is going to take a very good suspension setup, and some very sticky tires - read between the lines of what 1Tony1 has been saying - he knows what it takes.

If you can run in the solid to high 130's mph you have the power for a mid ten, but to get the et you'll need a 60 footer under 1.5 seconds to be safe and some slick shifts.

Based on your driving ability - the shifts should be no problem to you - but unless you are a seasoned drag racer - that 60 footer - to get into the 1.4's - you will be very good if you can debut in drag racing and pull that off.

If you do that - you must come back here and tell us all about it because you have the right to be real proud! That'd be a great accomplishment for a newbie at drag racing.

 

[FE 065]

...As such I believe disputes like the one referenced in this thread should be handled directly between the parties or through an intermediary. Only as a last resort should the dirty laundry be aired here.

Sorry I can't agree. If some of your neighbors were frequenting a local restaurant and the food/service was just horrible, you'd want to know about it. If some of your neighbors were ordering from major department store's online catalog and more than one neighbor was having serious problems with their orders, you'd want to know about it if you were planning to order from that business. Our Viper neighborhood exists almost entirely in the cyber space of Viper related forums, and we all have the same selection of vendors. Since we don't see each other face to face in this cyber neighborhood, a posting concerning good and bad experiences is the only way we can communicate with all of our Vipers neighbors. It's just that simple.

 

[Shelby3]

Am I the only one who thinks buying or selling a performance package based on a guaranteed 1/4 mile time is maybe not the best practice?

 

[BadVenm]

BadVenm, what were your dyno numbers? Promising 10.5 second quarter mile times are tough as alot has to do with the driver (which you already said you should be pretty good) but at least you could use your dyno numbers to at least see results of what you paid for.

Can't say yet on final HP. My base line before the work was 432.5 RWHP and 471.6 RWtrq. Our base line was done on a set of 18" wheels and tires, I do not have those same ones on the car right now, so it wouldn't be the same comparison. I lent those out to a guy and I'm getting those back so we can hit the track and dyno and know the car is apples to apples other than the motor work.

As far as what tires are we running on? Everything. Stock, Street ET's, and if I can find a full on set of slicks to mount I hope to have them there too. I just need a few more guys to lend me their old stock wheels that are sitting around.

I found out last night at our VCA meeting we already have one strip proven 10.5 second naturally aspirated, no bottle, no blower, no turbo, Viper here in our club. I need to spend time with him to see how and what, when he ran his times, he did as far as tires, air pressure, launch rpm's, etc.... Problem with our local track is if you run even one pass under 11.5 and you DO NOT have a cage, you are thrown off the track. So, one good, but not great pass and we could be finished before we even get started.

Tony, Yes, I know the odds are against us. It's a tall order, no question.

BUT, this is what this vendor represented his product to do. This whole thread and the other one is about a vendor not following through with what he promised. My sole intent was to inform the community that I have dealings with the same vendor, I've experianced some of the same issues, but so far, however late it may be, I've gotten what I was told I would get, as far as the hard goods part of the deal.

The final step is the track results. I'm wishing Scott a whole lot of luck too, he won't like me much afterwards if the car will not preform as promised.

 

[BadVenm]

- read between the lines of what 1Tony1 has been saying - he knows what it takes.

I am, I know he does know what it takes, no question. He's all but saying, No F-ing way is it going to happen.


- That'd be a great accomplishment for a newbie at drag racing.

Not actually a newbie, I was a pilot of a 9 second bike for two years. However, I was 18 and 19 years old in those days. It's been quite a while since I've been on the strip. I have no idea how I will personally do, although in my mind I THINK I will do just fine. That is one reason I hope to get to a V-10 Nat with the car. If I can't do it, there are a few guys there that can, if it can.

Guys, don't put my comments on trial, I'm just repeating what a vendor told me his package will do when installed on my car. Remember guys, I'm here just like Lou. I had a guy take my money, UPFRONT and made promises, I had some of the same problems others are saying they had with the vendor. It made me question him quite a bit. I'm just waiting to see if he's selling the truth or not. And also waiting to see IF and HOW he stands behind his work if it will not do what he says.

 

[1TONY1]

- read between the lines of what 1Tony1 has been saying - he knows what it takes.

I am, I know he does know what it takes, no question. He's all but saying, No F-ing way is it going to happen.

Whew...I'm glad I did NOT say that !!!! On Michelins, that statement is real close though. On et streets or slicks or even drag radials, if you have a real good package it is very possible....just not easy.

I know what you are saying Rick. Scott gave you a dragstrip et. IMO, Scott should know better than that...to many variables. Like someone else said, dyno numbers would have been a much better warranty....or even mph like torque said.

p.s. How much for the heads JUST JOKING !!!!!

 

[2kviper]

Tony,

In my post earlier in this thread I was trying to stick up for Scott to the extent that I could. I have only one thing left to see if what he sold me is actually what I got. What Scott sold me on, and I bought, was a promise, that if I had any driving skills at all that his package will run 10.5 sec 1/4 mile times. Scott said that he had "many" of these packages out there and it is a "proven combo." Scott designed everything top to bottom. I took him at his word, why wouldn't I? At the time I met him, I looked to him as a respected tuner in the community. If all goes well, and I get my stock 18" wheels and tires back by about noon on the 1st, I will be at grudge night at the local drag strip to see how the car does.

Past that I plan on attending a V-10 Nat if I can, and if I can't get the car into the 10's, professional drivers . That will be the final test to see if I got what I paid for or not.

didn't you say:

"Scott did say I had to be a decent driver. I think I qualify for that as an ex-pilot of a 9 second bike and a current fill in driver for 2 NASCAR teams."

why would you need a professional to drive it? looks like the above would qualify you, right?

 

[Mark Red GTS Cooper]

How can you guys argue or debate a statement like Scott made. I will build you a 10,5 second car. Come on guys, lets see what are the factors that could effect that statement:

Altitude:
Driver ability
Humidity
Temperature
Track
Tires
Suspension set up
Driver ability
Wind
Just a bad day: (How many top fuel drivers smoke the tires and never run even close to the 300 mile an hour, they shut off half track)

So, if the gods are against you that day do you get to come back and say it did not run 10.5. Scott should have said, I know ### HP cars are running 10.9 and ### HP cars are running 10.4, you get ### HP and you should be able to run 10.5 easily. But to tell someone they are getting a car that will run 10.5, this is BS

Mark

 

[CMilViper]

BadVenm....make sure and give us an update when you get back!

Good Luck!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Richard, I believe the corollary to this for a restaurant would be for the dissatisfied customer to stand out in front and tell each potential customer about the bad food/service. In reality you would probably speak with the manager or not go back. You may pass on negative comments to friends, etc but not to every total stranger you might meet that may go there.

I can't remember having that experience for a restaurant, department store or anything like what we see here. Hell, there is so much complaining going on here that there is no vendor that is immune. Could you imagine billboard comments indicating every potential restaurant having problems. You would never go out to eat.

Regarding the Viper community existing only in cyber space that is bunk. I was with 3 other owners tonight in a chance meeting. And whenever we get together we trade comments of purchases, upgrades, etc. I am not sure of any stronger community than Viper owners.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Ron and Tony, I couldn't post to my server this morning so I sent you both emails with a cropped pic of the area in question. You'll see it's not goo.

Lou (Hey, I rhyme with goo!)

Just looked at your picture. The discoloration looks like normal combustion to me. It is very normal to get disoloration and carbon buildup. The difference between good and bad is the degree of build-up (in general). Also, discoloration is mostly fuel related. What the picture showed was very minor build-up. And probably occured while trying to dial in the f/a and spark levels for the modifications. But, regardles of how, pistons will accumulate carbon and discoloration.

I could be wrong as I have only viewed a few thousand pistons after testing.

 

[Roadkill]

Just looked at your picture. The discoloration looks like normal combustion to me. It is very normal to get disoloration and carbon buildup. The difference between good and bad is the degree of build-up (in general). Also, discoloration is mostly fuel related. What the picture showed was very minor build-up. And probably occured while trying to dial in the f/a and spark levels for the modifications. But, regardles of how, pistons will accumulate carbon and discoloration.

I could be wrong as I have only viewed a few thousand pistons after testing.

I think you proved his point.. How would brand new pistons have combustion discoloration? ie: he didn't get new pistons back as he was promised