GUILTY!

Y2K5SRT

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 1999
Posts
7,891
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park, KS
Well, I had my day in court today regarding what I think was the first official SRT-10 speeding ticket. As you may recall, I got this bogus ticket back in February and have been awaiting my trial date. Originally had an attorney who said it would cost more to have him do it. A lot more. He also figured I had no chance at beating it anyway (not a traffic attorney). So...

I get to the courtroom after a couple months of SOLID preparation. I have news articles, NHTSA manuals, pictures - you name it. Of course, I am hoping the traffic cop won't show so it gets immediately dismissed. No luck there: Not only does he show, but he shows up in FULL SWAT TEAM GEAR. Bullet-proof vests, military boots, what looked like smoke grenades, ammo clips, and at least two guns I could see. It was almost comical, but really did impress the crowd. And of course we learn that he is assigned solely to the traffic division. :rolleyes:

So I figured that with the excessive distance of the laser (1464 feet when he showed me the gun at the scene), that was one nail - as few states give judicial notice to anything over 1000 feet. He inflated the number to 1550 feet today and said they were accurate to 6000-10,000 feet(!!!) I pointed out the NHTSA guidelines suggesting that they recommended laser (LIDAR) never be used over 1200 feet. Fell on deaf ears.

I then pointed out that there was merging traffic and that it would be impossible for him to clock me, especially since I had been passed by a minivan which was immediately in front of me. We even discussed it at the scene and he said that I was "catching the minivan" and that was why he clocked me. Guess what? TODAY he said THERE WAS NO OTHER TRAFFIC ON THE HIGHWAY EXCEPT ME. NONE. I was stunned that this guy could lie like that, but what could I possibly do? I contradicted him, pointed out the minivan (among the many cars that day) and even provided the dimensions of the van vs. that of the SRT. He denied there were any other cars on the road at all. I was absolutely dumbfounded.

There were many other lies and BS that took place, as I slowly drowned in them. I kept him busy for 45 minutes and even managed to get three "objections" from the prosecuting attorney, all of which were overruled (yay for me). I then provided photographs of the clocking site (lots of trees), which he said he shot between. I showed pictures of every angle of the Viper, ESPECIALLY the front, which has very little "flat" surface perpendicular to the ground (none). He agreed that you needed a flat surface to clock the car. He even pointed out the thin bar in the middle of the grill as being ideal. Yeah, from 1550 feet away. So get this, when I immediately pounced on that, he said "I never said 'flat' or at least that isn't what I meant." I asked if I could have his previous statement read back to me and the judge said, "NO." ARGHHHHH!!!

The only bright side was that the prosecuting attorney was a college-aged woman wearing flip-flop sandals. I kid you not. She basically read from a script. Had I followed my original plan of going into the law profession, it would have been a piece of cake to take her case apart. But with my very first court appearance EVER, a lying traffic cop dressed like he just came from the front line in Iraq, and a judge that wasn't much help, I gave up. Guilty as charged.

The only good news was that I vowed I would immediately sell the SRT if I lost (still waiting for Tony to belly up to the bar). I did not want a car that attracts guys like this, as I thought I was immune in this peaceful little burg where the cops are amazingly honest and nice to hang out with. Once I got out of there I was VERY relieved just to have the stupid thing over and done. Disappointed, yes. Ready to go out and drive somewhere besides here, you betcha!

Chris
 
OP
OP
Y

Y2K5SRT

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 1999
Posts
7,891
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park, KS
Well, with Kansas it is still pretty reasonable: Total out of pocket was $134 for 86 in a 65. It wasn't the money that was the big issue (definitely an issue though), it was the principle. I was NOT speeding and made that perfectly clear in my court appearance. Sigh...
 

Polka

Enthusiast
Joined
May 12, 2002
Posts
39
Reaction score
0
Location
Green Oaks, IL
I know how that feels. While in MI I was coming home from the casino when I got pulled over for going through a red light. There was even other people who went through the intersection after me, but he decided to pull me over. I was very polite to the officer and he even thanked me for being so polite to him after he gave me the ticket. This all happened on Dec 1, 2001. My court date kept getting pushed back because the cops schedule was so full. I finally went to court in mid September 2002. The cop gets up there and totally lies and says that I spit in his face and insulted his family. What B.S. I don't even get to say anything and the judge just goes off on me for a couple of minutes about how this is a waste of his time and then says that I'm guilty. Over all I was glad when it was finally over, but I spent $400 on a laywer and another $115 on the ticket and court fees. I just couldn't believe what the cop said. Anyways sorry for going on, I feel for ya.
 

Viperzilla

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Posts
1,424
Reaction score
0
Location
Annapolis, MD
Been through the same "judicial" system in Roanoke, VA. Ever since my dad moved there we've heard horror stories from my stepmom's family (also in Roanoke) and new friends.

We eventually experienced it. Cop followed us, used her speedometer as her radar (which is legal procecdure). My dad knows for a fact that in MD they must trail you for a min of a 1/4 mile (if I remember correctly). She only trailed us for less then a tenth of a mile (guess they can follow us for a foot if they wanted to). She wrote parts of the ticket wrong, wrote down the speed limit wrong, place of offense (wrong street), and place where she pulled us over (wrong street). That didn't have an effect on the judge.
In court, the officer and assistant officer got information wrong and couldn't remember other parts. She had other parts written out to very specific detail, yet she wasn't taking notes, or didn't write anything til they left (they left the side of the road before us).

I've heard of some of the tactics the police there use, like automobile profiling. And parking police come to your house and hand you your ticket. My dad's friend had one officer just walk in uninvited "because she 'turned' the wrong way".
 

Daffy Duck Viper

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Posts
1,253
Reaction score
0
Location
Austin, TX. USA.
I wish I had not read this post. Totally p!ssed me off. The freakin' injustice of the system now days. Burns me up!!!

You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
 

GR8_ASP

Enthusiast
Joined
May 28, 1998
Posts
5,637
Reaction score
1
Agreed. The traffic court system is just a method of revenue, and not a very just revenue system at that.
 

1TONY1

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Posts
5,661
Reaction score
0
Location
Dalton Ga. (Chatt. Tn.)
aaagghhhhh, Chuck, send me some of that heart medicine back !!!! Stories like that make me soooo mad. Chris, That is NOT a good reason to sell.....what WILL make you feel better is to take a nice cruise in the SRT, just put this out of your mind. The 911 is going in the paper this weekend.
 

kenvw

Viper Owner
Joined
Oct 6, 2002
Posts
129
Reaction score
0
Location
Tauranga, New Zealand
Chris you got taken. The minute anyone sees you were in a Viper your guilty. You had enough prove and the cops story seemed shaky but you were in a Viper. I had a funny situation the first day that my Viper was delivered. The car was delivered near my house about 3 miles away. The road I live on would not have been a good place for a 18 wheeler to drive on so the decision was to meet them in a large parking area. My wife drove me to the spot in our other car which has a valentine fuzz buster. All was clear when we arrived. We unloaded the car and I pulled out on to the highway and within about 15 seconds there was this state trooper right on my rear. He followed me for a couple of miles until I turned unto our road which led to the house. When I got out of the car my wife who had just arrive told me the second I pulled out unto the road the Valentine went off. Just goes to show you these guys are out to get us.
 

Jerry Dobson

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 25, 2001
Posts
826
Reaction score
0
Location
Lenexa, Kansas
Chris,
I feel bad that I did not do more. I did not think it would take this route. I have officer contacts in OP. I thought this was going to be an easy win. We needed the cop to back off. We could have used Mark as your representation. He is not a traffic attorney, but the system works on the "good ole boy network" and it may have helped. This upsets me. But we know this is only a OP issue. All other cities would have dropped it.
 

carguy07

Viper Owner
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
2,310
Reaction score
0
Location
Cuyahoga Falls, OH, USA
Been there! Had a cop actually lie about the location (part of my defense) that he ticketed me. I had pictures of the street with the street sign clearly visible, and the cop said it was a picture of another street and I was playing games with the pictures. So put me in jail for fabricating evidence, right? No, just a speeding ticket. UHHHH.
 

Vic

VCA Venom Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2000
Posts
6,763
Reaction score
0
Just consider yourself lucky, because you have gotten away with speeding so many times before this ticket! :D

I know I have! (I have been ticketed very little, even though I do 90 almost every day)(On my private test track)
 

gtsviper

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 31, 2000
Posts
490
Reaction score
0
Location
Huntington Beach, Ca, US
Chris...don't feel too bad. I have just appealed a guilty verdict for a ticket I got in AZ. The cop wrote me for speeding, unsafe lane changes and not having an insurance card. When I gave the cop the card..he said he already had it written so I should deal with the court. He actually wrote a ticket knowing that there was no infraction!
Dismissed.

When I fought the ticket in the third world judicial system in Phoenix, the guy said he didn't actually see me make the lane change but was told by another driver it happened. Where was the other driver?
Dismissed.

Next the speeding... I requested a certificate of calibration for the speedometer on his motorcycle. He didn't have it. I asked how he verified the accuracy of the speedometer and he responded that he timed how long it took him to go 1/4 mile. I asked how he was sure it was actually 1/4 mile and he answered that he measured it. I asked how and he said with a metal tape measure. (Boy, I would have loved to see that!)
Guilty.

I appealed and the third world court lost the tape of the trial and had no transcript. Now I have to start all over again with this lying sack of dog excrement. I am not hopeful even that ******* will make that mistake again. Seeing him embarassed in front of his brother officers was quite entertaining though!
 

Lawrenzo

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 9, 2001
Posts
1,752
Reaction score
4
Location
Colorado Springs
Seeing him embarassed in front of his brother officers was quite entertaining though!

Unfortunately, he probably has a "set" area to patrol, and you will have a huge target on your head from now on. That's the rub of it all- even if you win, you lose!
 

George Murray

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 3, 2000
Posts
883
Reaction score
0
Location
Norfolk, VA, USA
Data point: the average police officer has an IQ of 100. And that number is based on large departments, not small municipalities.

I am a strong supporter of law enforcement professionals, but it's a wise idea to be aware of the basic intelligence and education qualifications of the people who are working the beat.

They have tough occupations, are generally paid in the poor to average range, and suffer a great deal of disrespect from certain segments of the population. Additionally, they statistically have greater alcoholism, suicide and divorce rates than the general population. They do tend to stick together out of a sense of group defensiveness, and lying is not above them.

As always, there are lots of exceptions. These people are only human.

Judges in traffic courts just want to pump people in & out. Get the fine, send the perp on his/her way. They'll believe the cop before they'll believe the accused because they have to deal with the same cops week after week.

Chris: NEVER regret that you chose a profession other than attorney!
 

Bob Pommer

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 3, 2003
Posts
69
Reaction score
0
Location
Chicagoland Area
Check out the New Passport SRX...

It has a laser shifter that according to everything I have read actually makes your car invisible to LIDAR. The radar jammers don't yet work, but this laser shifter seems like a cool technology.

http://www.escortstore.com/srx.htm

Clip from a car mag test on the unit....

"And having tested the SRX shifters extensively, installed on both cars, trucks and SUVs, we can attest to their effectiveness. Pitted against all five of the most popular models of police laser gun, the SRX executed its laser-shifting duties so efficiently that none had any clue that our target vehicles even existed. In every test, the laser's target-speed display remained blank from the 2,000-foot limit of our test site right down to point-blank range, a remarkable feat of electronic wizardry."
 

GTS Bruce

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
3,328
Reaction score
0
Location
Orchard Park,NY,USA
Recently got a ticket driving 4x4 ram.Was driving along 2 lane highway 9:30 pm.No traffic,dry road,set cruise when I pulled out and didn't look at the speedometer.I even had a Valentine on the seat and not plugged in.Cop was exasperated.Thought I was a drunk,checked for suspended license or insurance and prior convictions.No problem.Couldn't believe I had no idea how fast I was going.Anyway I asked the prosecutor to change the offense to non-moving violation(s)so we didn't have to waste court time and the municipality could collect cash immediately.So I paid my parking ticket fines.Two of them $30 each.Gray hair and a jacket and tie can be an asset.Got to save those points for when they catch me in the Viper being very indiscrete. Bruce
 

1TONY1

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Posts
5,661
Reaction score
0
Location
Dalton Ga. (Chatt. Tn.)
Check out the New Passport SRX...

But for that price ($1500)I will take the Valentine and a seperate lazar defeat box. Also, when you have a cop that lies and is intent on giving a viper driver a ticket then it doesn't matter. Another good reason we need an inexpensive video/audio recording system with remote cameras for our cars.
 

tattooed

Viper Owner
Joined
Nov 13, 2001
Posts
293
Reaction score
0
Location
KC
i can't believe you went to court without a good traffic attorney. in KS and MO, you should NEVER have to take a guilty charge on a ticket. i just hire a good _traffic_ attorney every time. i have 0 points on my license. my boss has gotten almost 100 speeding tickets in the past 5 years (most in KS), and he has 0 points too.

oh well, its your money, and your insurance company is going to love you at the end of the day i guess.
 

Performin Norman

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Posts
1,198
Reaction score
0
Location
Lee's Summit, MO, US
Chris,

It shouldn't affect your Viper insurance anyway. This means the cost to you won't be nearly as high. I know you have three automobiles and probably have 2 drivers who are primarily rated. You should be primary on one of the beaters, not your Viper. The cost of insurance will go up on that vehicle and not your Viper. I hope you have it set up this way, if not, make a call.
 

tattooed

Viper Owner
Joined
Nov 13, 2001
Posts
293
Reaction score
0
Location
KC
Chris,

It shouldn't affect your Viper insurance anyway. This means the cost to you won't be nearly as high. I know you have three automobiles and probably have 2 drivers who are primarily rated. You should be primary on one of the beaters, not your Viper. The cost of insurance will go up on that vehicle and not your Viper. I hope you have it set up this way, if not, make a call.

it _can_ work that way, but it depends on the agent, the insurance company, the state insurance laws, etc. insurance is a funny thing ... i have called 3 agents at the same insurance company, and listed the *exact* same requirements for a prospective policy, and gotten 3 different quotes.

anyway, i have always found that it is cheaper to just pay my lawyer $200 to make the tickets disappear. it also saves me alot of time because i don't have to go to court. heck, i don't even have to go to my lawyer's office. i just give his secretary a call, fax over my speeding ticket, and i'm done. she uses the CC # they have on file for me. they send me a letter 3 days after my court date confirming that my ticket disappeared.

total cost to me: $200 and 3 minutes.
 
OP
OP
Y

Y2K5SRT

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 1999
Posts
7,891
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park, KS
I am afraid it is not so easy in Overland Park. Quite simply, the city WILL NOT plea anything over 20 MPH in excess of the speed limit. 86 in a 65? 21 MPH, how about that (sarcasm pointed at the cop). I DID hire an attorney and he basically said, "You're screwed". He contacted the prosecutors office in OP and they too said, "We will not plea this ticket, no matter what." I was prepared to throw cash at it even though I was NOT speeding. OP told me and my attorney "No way, José." Even during "sentencing", the judge said he would normally reduce points or whatever as he thought my case had some merit, but he too claimed his hands were tied because of the 20 MPH rule in Overland Park. And the cop just grinned like a hyena the entire time, KNOWING he screwed me through and through.

So, I decided to roll the dice on my own since my attorney said it was a lost cause. Realize that while the State may not give judicial notice to laser or the excessive distance, Overland Park could care less. This cop could have told the judge that he could clock the space shuttle and the judge would have simply nodded in agreement. Rest assured I had my ducks in a row as well as any attorney and I was screwed, plain and simple. As to the insurance, I already had that lined up as per Norman's advice. If only I had a clunker... ;)

Chris

PS. I still have that blind confidence that 99% of the law enforcement people are good. I will continue to give the friendly wave to the local yokels and hope I don't cross the one weasel who gets his jollies this way.
 

tattooed

Viper Owner
Joined
Nov 13, 2001
Posts
293
Reaction score
0
Location
KC
wow! i didnt know OP was so screwed up these days. sounds like you did try to do the right thing - i probably would have done exactly what you did. after losing, as you did, i might contact the State Atty General's office and file some complaints or something too.

you really did get screwed. makes me feel bad about getting away with a verbal warning 3 nights ago when i got pulled at 3am doing 85 in a 45 on Metcalf.
 

Firewater

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Posts
1,074
Reaction score
0
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
I hate cops for this very reason. At least around here, all they seem to do is harass the younger people like me. Whenever you actually do need their help, the world would end before they showed up.
 

gtsviper

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 31, 2000
Posts
490
Reaction score
0
Location
Huntington Beach, Ca, US
Chris...why didn't you appeal to the Civil court system and get out of the local traffic court system. You might have a more objective review of the facts and the delay will at least keep the ticket off your license until the case is tried.
Andy
 

Daffy Duck Viper

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Posts
1,253
Reaction score
0
Location
Austin, TX. USA.
At least everyone is agreeing on this issue.Do cops actually have quotas that they have to fill?

I read a book written by a cop, and he said that cops DO have quotas they have to fill, regardless of how many deny this fact.

You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
 

tattooed

Viper Owner
Joined
Nov 13, 2001
Posts
293
Reaction score
0
Location
KC
Chris...why didn't you appeal to the Civil court system and get out of the local traffic court system. You might have a more objective review of the facts and the delay will at least keep the ticket off your license until the case is tried.
Andy

good idea. is it too late to do this now, Chris?
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
153,218
Posts
1,682,058
Members
17,713
Latest member
webironmongery
Top