Hagerty: 5 Cars Taking Losses to Start 2026
- Thread starter Bill W
- Start date
BoondocSaint
Enthusiast
Yep, unfortunately, Dodge or Chrysler don't carry the same weight as Ferrari or Lamborghini in the sports car collector/enthusiast market. I'm sure we'll see some future bumps if a Ford vs Ferrari type movie about the Viper program ever comes to fruition, or when Dodge resurrects the Viper at some point. Would be nice for something to push the enthusiasm for these cars over the top into next level territory, but satisfaction of ownership alone will have to be enough until then 
serafins
Enthusiast
Just correcting from the Covid hype market. If you read it, average priced cars didn’t change. The loss was from the high end cars dropping.
Any less amount of cars sold can easily change this -8% the bottom line is if it's a rare configuration or color and you find it and want it buy it. Overall they are not making anymore and if anything every year less and less are surviving as original examples..
doctormosfet
Enthusiast
This only really matters if you view cars as investments. These could be worth $5 tomorrow and I wouldn't care, because I don't ever plan to sell mine. Enjoy your Ferrari show car with three miles on it while I rumble past in my funmobile.
AviP
Enthusiast
Well said. She's a keeper. I would prefer that the values stay depressed so that my annual taxes in CT stay low.
Badsnek
Enthusiast
Subjective. Who knows where they pull their information from. Just seen some 2nd Gen GTS Mecum results and thought they did as expected and as high as they have been so I’m not sure where they are getting their data from.
I own the first 4 Gen’s and personally find the Gen 2 GTS to be extremely overpriced and overrated for what it is.
But through the last couple years I’ve sat back and laughed as guys are saying prices are up and prices are down. You’ll have people saying the opposites of each other literally at the same time. They pull crazy outlier sales from either end of the spectrum to support their narrative. Realistically everything’s still pretty much the same and on a gradual upward trend.
You’ll also have all these people claiming auctions are a good baseline for current market conditions. Which couldn’t be farther from the truth. Maybe 10% of Viper owners have ever bought a car from an auction and even less bought their Viper that way.
You have people in forums screaming clean title Gen 4 ACR’s are $80k cars, then the next week they go for $160k+ at Mecum.
At the end of the day regardless of what Viper you own, relax, don’t pay attention to all the bs, it will continue to go up in value. Just enjoy it
I own the first 4 Gen’s and personally find the Gen 2 GTS to be extremely overpriced and overrated for what it is.
But through the last couple years I’ve sat back and laughed as guys are saying prices are up and prices are down. You’ll have people saying the opposites of each other literally at the same time. They pull crazy outlier sales from either end of the spectrum to support their narrative. Realistically everything’s still pretty much the same and on a gradual upward trend.
You’ll also have all these people claiming auctions are a good baseline for current market conditions. Which couldn’t be farther from the truth. Maybe 10% of Viper owners have ever bought a car from an auction and even less bought their Viper that way.
You have people in forums screaming clean title Gen 4 ACR’s are $80k cars, then the next week they go for $160k+ at Mecum.
At the end of the day regardless of what Viper you own, relax, don’t pay attention to all the bs, it will continue to go up in value. Just enjoy it
Honestly, couldnt be happier. Anyone who knows me
here knows that "car collectors" are one of my biggest
pet peeves. They turn objects meant to be driven into
wall art and prices out people who actually want to drive
them. Then they become status symbols or PR vehicles
for people who shouldnt be tied to cars at all - like the
dot-com kid who "dared" to drive his F40 around Paris
one day... Dared to drive a car... one day...
Im okay if Vipers float at the bottom of used car markets,
makes it easier for me to buy them and... actually drive
them. If you bought one for the "investment" then i hope
you lose your shirt when the bubble pops.
here knows that "car collectors" are one of my biggest
pet peeves. They turn objects meant to be driven into
wall art and prices out people who actually want to drive
them. Then they become status symbols or PR vehicles
for people who shouldnt be tied to cars at all - like the
dot-com kid who "dared" to drive his F40 around Paris
one day... Dared to drive a car... one day...
Im okay if Vipers float at the bottom of used car markets,
makes it easier for me to buy them and... actually drive
them. If you bought one for the "investment" then i hope
you lose your shirt when the bubble pops.
Yeah, I have similar thoughts to that. I never understood the gen 2 prices. I get that they were the bedroom poster car for a lot of kids that are adults with disposable money now, but at the same time I would have thought the gen 1 prices would have kind of kept up since they were the car that started it all, but they seem to have floundered the most. The gen 3 was always the sweet spot for me because it was a pretty big performance and "modernized" bump up in design. The brakes are way better than anything before, the power is great, and the interior and comfort were starting to because less "parts bin" and more dedicated design. Sure, the materials may still not have been the greatest, but at least it felt more styled to me (plus it had a dead pedal). Probably the best dollar to performance ratio in the Viper world at least.
And prices in general for cars like these are almost impossible to guess. Where you live and what time of year it is can swing the prices 10%+ easily, let alone any kind of rarity or interesting option (which is basically just colors). Sure, you can average that out and get a number, but it's kind of like taking the average of 100 examples of something vs 100,000. It's technically still an average, but it doesn't paint near as good of a picture.
Long story short, buy what you want and enjoy it. Don't let other people tell you what you like.
serafins
Enthusiast
I think the Gen 2 GTS is underpriced compared to its contemporaries like the MK4 supra and Porsche of that era. That said, I think that entire category of cars is overpriced. However, with an average Gen 2 viper trading for around $60k, I'm not sure you find any car that blends style and performance together for that value. I think they're priced about where they should be and the Porsche, supra, etc should drop in value. But since I don't run the market, kind of just yelling at the wind.
I agree that the Gen 3 coupe is the best value/dollar in the viper market by far.
I will say that what I did not understand about the Gen 2 and what I think 99% of owners don't even understand is how close to an actual race car the car is. The entire engine can be rebuilt in the car just like a stock car. Main and rod bearings are designed to be replaced without dropping the crank. The trans is easily accessible and can be dropped in an hour or so to replace the clutch. The brake system is dead simple and though it ***** in stock form it is easily upgraded. The whole nose comes off with 4 bolts to access the radiator and coolers. You can put it back on without needing to realign everything. Same with the hood. 4 bolts off, no realignment necessary. Then Gen 3 is a better at being a car for sure, but it is nowhere close to this easy to work on and maybe not as easy to get ready for track duty. That's what is cool about the Gen 2 to me and why I won't be selling mine. But I'd love a Gen 3 roadster to tool around town in and take on road trips.
capevettes
Enthusiast
I view all of my cars as nothing more than an investment in driving pleasure. I love to drive. If they appreciate in value, that's great, but not my reason for owning them.
Whatever it's value, the Viper commands attention on the road. People notice it. You just never see them. Love my Sapphire 01 GTS. Still a blast to drive after all these years.
Whatever it's value, the Viper commands attention on the road. People notice it. You just never see them. Love my Sapphire 01 GTS. Still a blast to drive after all these years.
I find the gen 3 just as easy to work on, but then again I've had mine for a while and taken the engine out twice now for a rebuild due to me being stupid. The hardest part about taking the engine out for me is just that my cherry picker isn't long enough to pull the engine from the front of the car. I have to pull it from the side, but even then it's pretty close. It's a pretty slick setup though. I can have it out of the car within a couple hours at most at this point. I like how the engine harness can stay with the engine, so you just unplug some connectors from the PCM and pull the whole harness with the engine.
That being said, I also started buying the dealer tools to make stuff like that easier. I have no plans to sell the car, so I figured the easier I can make it to service in the future, the better.
serafins
Enthusiast
Yeah the Gen 3 harness and electronics are light years ahead of the gen 2. The harness staying with the engine is a super cool feature. I didn't know about that. The gen 2 may actually do the same thing now that I think of it. I believe it just connects at the rear via two large connectors. I have been switching my Gen 2 connectors to Deutsch DTM style where it makes sense to do so so I just took the whole engine bay harness out anyways. So not 100% sure. The dealer tools are also slick stuff. Cool of Dodge to even make them versus a lot of other brands just telling techs to figure it out.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this was a direct result of greedy people asking outrageous prices for gen 2 parts. I'm missing a whole lot of my Viper and needed to source a ton of parts, and I found it to be one of the most frustrating markets I've ever seen (and I've built off a whole lot of platforms). Guys just seem to pull insane prices out of their behinds. If you search around and have patience, you'll eventually find the same part for 1/4 the price or less being sold by someone reasonable who isn't looking to rake their own enthusiast community over the coals.
I know it's supply and demand with things like headlights, but put it this way. The viper community is relatively small. If seller 1 sells a pair of headlights for 2k and realizes they sell quick, seller 2 might try selling them for $2500 which is understandable...but what I've witnessed in the Viper market is seller 2 would come out and list them for $6k instead, and they won't sell, but because there aren't many on the market eventually seller 3 will jump in, see seller 2 selling them for 6k and ask the same. Next thing you know, all lights on the market are listed for 6k and now when someone desperately needs them, they are forced to pay 4k over what all previous lights were selling for.
It is what is, I guess some guys will always try to get as much as they possibly can from a given part , but thankfully I have come across enough guys who weren't looking to get rich off the community to purchase parts from. most of the body panels, brakes and other miscellaneous parts I have purchased for my Viper I bought for not much more than the same parts would go for on my mid 90's Impala SS despite seeing those same parts listed all over for 4+ times the price by other sellers.
Anyway, back to how it affects car pricing, I really feel like this scares away most people in the market who actually want to drive one of these things out of fear of not being able to afford replacement parts they may need. There are only so many collectors buying them to stow them away and never drive them. The rest of us want to use the car, but how willing would you be to drive car that may cost you 1/3'rd the cost of the car if you have a minor fender bender and destroy the hood and headlights?
Look at the price curve of the 60's and 70's muscle cars. Yes, big money collectors at auction houses blew the prices through the roof, but ever notice how that time period seemed to mirror the massive explosion in reproduction parts? I know some guys would say this happened BECAUSE collectors at auction houses drove prices up, but I don't think so. the pump in aftermarket replacement parts was a long time in the making and I've always had a strong feeling that the accessibility is what really drove prices up, because it made the cars more appealing to regular people vs just high end collectors which then drove up demand. The increased demand drove the prices of regular muscle cars up and that in turn drummed up enthusiasm for the more rare trim models sending collectors into a frenzy to buy them. That ripple effect then worked back down the market as the collectors fought over the rare models and they eventually ran thin.
Point being, you needed all the demand from the 'average Joe' first in order for the collectors to see the value in the more rare models. If you didn't have a ton of average joes willing to open their wallet for a 73 318 Challenger because replacement parts were made of gold and keeping one on the road would require a small fortune then I don't think you would have ever seen collectors bidding 1 mil or more for a 426 Hemi 70 R/T.
There are too many of these cars for high end collectors who plan on storing it as a museum piece to be willing to bid top dollar for, but because of the unreasonable cost of some very commonly needed replacement parts you don't have a lot of average people willing to buy them either.
I honestly haven't met many people who wouldn't WANT a viper, just a lot of people who wouldn't buy one due to the potential cost of ownership AFTER the initial purchase.
I know it's supply and demand with things like headlights, but put it this way. The viper community is relatively small. If seller 1 sells a pair of headlights for 2k and realizes they sell quick, seller 2 might try selling them for $2500 which is understandable...but what I've witnessed in the Viper market is seller 2 would come out and list them for $6k instead, and they won't sell, but because there aren't many on the market eventually seller 3 will jump in, see seller 2 selling them for 6k and ask the same. Next thing you know, all lights on the market are listed for 6k and now when someone desperately needs them, they are forced to pay 4k over what all previous lights were selling for.
It is what is, I guess some guys will always try to get as much as they possibly can from a given part , but thankfully I have come across enough guys who weren't looking to get rich off the community to purchase parts from. most of the body panels, brakes and other miscellaneous parts I have purchased for my Viper I bought for not much more than the same parts would go for on my mid 90's Impala SS despite seeing those same parts listed all over for 4+ times the price by other sellers.
Anyway, back to how it affects car pricing, I really feel like this scares away most people in the market who actually want to drive one of these things out of fear of not being able to afford replacement parts they may need. There are only so many collectors buying them to stow them away and never drive them. The rest of us want to use the car, but how willing would you be to drive car that may cost you 1/3'rd the cost of the car if you have a minor fender bender and destroy the hood and headlights?
Look at the price curve of the 60's and 70's muscle cars. Yes, big money collectors at auction houses blew the prices through the roof, but ever notice how that time period seemed to mirror the massive explosion in reproduction parts? I know some guys would say this happened BECAUSE collectors at auction houses drove prices up, but I don't think so. the pump in aftermarket replacement parts was a long time in the making and I've always had a strong feeling that the accessibility is what really drove prices up, because it made the cars more appealing to regular people vs just high end collectors which then drove up demand. The increased demand drove the prices of regular muscle cars up and that in turn drummed up enthusiasm for the more rare trim models sending collectors into a frenzy to buy them. That ripple effect then worked back down the market as the collectors fought over the rare models and they eventually ran thin.
Point being, you needed all the demand from the 'average Joe' first in order for the collectors to see the value in the more rare models. If you didn't have a ton of average joes willing to open their wallet for a 73 318 Challenger because replacement parts were made of gold and keeping one on the road would require a small fortune then I don't think you would have ever seen collectors bidding 1 mil or more for a 426 Hemi 70 R/T.
There are too many of these cars for high end collectors who plan on storing it as a museum piece to be willing to bid top dollar for, but because of the unreasonable cost of some very commonly needed replacement parts you don't have a lot of average people willing to buy them either.
I honestly haven't met many people who wouldn't WANT a viper, just a lot of people who wouldn't buy one due to the potential cost of ownership AFTER the initial purchase.
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BoondocSaint
Enthusiast
I find the parts aspect to be give and take. Some sports cars of this vintage and notoriety will bankrupt you at any level of restoration. The drivetrain and suspension cost in these cars is pretty on par with most run of the mill vehicles. On the other hand... a set of headlights can cost as much or more than rebuilding my entire suspension to include sending off Koni 2812's for rebuild. With the exception of the cleanest examples, driving these cars in this market doesn't depreciate them like other "collector" cars. True drivers cars right here, so get out and drive 'em.
serafins
Enthusiast
I would disagree that there are too many of these cars for them to appreciate in price.
However, I totally agree that the cost of parts is a major impact on price.
To both these points, see the MKIV Supra market and the air cooled Porsche market.
However, I totally agree that the cost of parts is a major impact on price.
To both these points, see the MKIV Supra market and the air cooled Porsche market.
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
As I've said many times, spare/replacement parts are not always the easiest to find, but they are out there. Unless you HAVE to get something NOW, you can usually find it at fair pricing within a few days or weeks, to a couple months. It requires vigilance and does impact how often our cars can be driven. There are some really good vendors out there with great knowledge and fair pricing, but plenty of ****-offs.
In particular - ECUs of all types can be had, but they are becoming EXTREMELY limited in supply and your car can't run without one. The fact that Dan Lesser can completely rebuild most of them to top notch condition is a Blessing. There are others with high skills and knowledge in different areas and they shouldn't have to suffer fools because they have their own high standards.
In particular - ECUs of all types can be had, but they are becoming EXTREMELY limited in supply and your car can't run without one. The fact that Dan Lesser can completely rebuild most of them to top notch condition is a Blessing. There are others with high skills and knowledge in different areas and they shouldn't have to suffer fools because they have their own high standards.
Bad wording on my part, they still are very rare cars compared to many other sports cars (especially with their history of having a particularly high numbered totaled in accidents) and I do think that SHOULD lead to appreciation in value.
But what I’m saying is there are large number of them *on the market* at any given time in proportion to their overall numbers because so many people are afraid of the cost of ownership, despite maybe wanting one and being willing to pay the cost up front for one. The saturated market in turn does nothing to really embolden high end collectors to want to bid up crazy high prices for clean/low mileage examples. If all the regular joes were fighting over the higher mileage cars, collectors would take note and start snatching up the low mileage cars. Supply would shrink from both ends and prices would go up.
Just a theory though , could definitely be more to it. It’s a strange thing though, seeing a car so iconic, so rare (compared to say Mustangs, Camaros or Corvettes) and so well loved by what seems like almost all of the car community NOT go up in price each year.
^ this is so true. I keep thinking if someone just made reproduction headlights, windshields and hoods for a reasonable cost, these cars would be far less risky to own/drive lol. It’s kind of the 3 most likely parts to get damaged, also the most likely to get destroyed on totaled cars. Although I always found it odd that front bumpers seem to go for dirt cheap. You’d think they’d be just as hard to come by as hoods, but I guess since they’re urethane and these cars sit so low most of the time they just fold up and can spring back while the hoods get completely demolished on front end crashes.
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Venamous54
Enthusiast
I bought my GEN III because it always made me feel a certain way when I first saw them. I didn't buy it to sell it. I pay zero attention to what the rest of the world thinks about my Viper. To each there own. Just my 2 cents that no one asked for.
Badinternet
Enthusiast
Interesting.
Unlike some of the other comments here, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to trust Hagerty’s methodology within its own framework—with the important caveat that Hagerty’s research supports Hagerty’s conclusions, not some absolute, Platonic truth about value.
Even if you personally don’t think auction results or reported private transactions are representative of the “true” average price, that is the dataset Hagerty has consistently used year over year. So, when they say Gen 2 values are down, what they’re really saying is: relative to their own historical methodology, prices are declining. You can disagree with the barometer, but you can’t really argue that they suddenly changed the yardstick.
And frankly, that tracks with broader reality. A lot of assets saw exaggerated price spikes during covid, followed by a normalization afterward. The assumption that prices must always go up, or rise indefinitely beyond inflation, is a bit naive.
Sure, Gen 2 values could rise again. But they also might not, and according to research (as opposed to anecdotes or cherry-picked listings), there’s no strong evidence they are right now.
That said… who cares? These cars aren’t index funds. The price trend is an interesting data point but as others have said, the Viper is meant to be driven and enjoyed.
Unlike some of the other comments here, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to trust Hagerty’s methodology within its own framework—with the important caveat that Hagerty’s research supports Hagerty’s conclusions, not some absolute, Platonic truth about value.
Even if you personally don’t think auction results or reported private transactions are representative of the “true” average price, that is the dataset Hagerty has consistently used year over year. So, when they say Gen 2 values are down, what they’re really saying is: relative to their own historical methodology, prices are declining. You can disagree with the barometer, but you can’t really argue that they suddenly changed the yardstick.
And frankly, that tracks with broader reality. A lot of assets saw exaggerated price spikes during covid, followed by a normalization afterward. The assumption that prices must always go up, or rise indefinitely beyond inflation, is a bit naive.
Sure, Gen 2 values could rise again. But they also might not, and according to research (as opposed to anecdotes or cherry-picked listings), there’s no strong evidence they are right now.
That said… who cares? These cars aren’t index funds. The price trend is an interesting data point but as others have said, the Viper is meant to be driven and enjoyed.
Tom and Vipers
Enthusiast
They are looking at average price of all Gen 2 Vipers which include the RT/10.
AND it seems like more RT/10s than GTSs are showing up for sale.
LOL wonder if author is looking to buy GTSs. (Note popular tactic in the Lionel Train collecting market. Collector whiching to acquire publishes price guide with dropping prices.)
AND it seems like more RT/10s than GTSs are showing up for sale.
LOL wonder if author is looking to buy GTSs. (Note popular tactic in the Lionel Train collecting market. Collector whiching to acquire publishes price guide with dropping prices.)
Badsnek
Enthusiast
And for those people there are Corvettes
Badsnek
Enthusiast
Tried helping a buddy search the country for a nice GTS with lower mileage under $70k for several months just recently. Couldn’t do it. Everything had high miles or was a basket case that was under that. Or the other eww, it was red.
That’s higher than it’s been the last several years.
Again I can find 10 examples in either direction to prove whatever narrative you want.
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but then there’s reality.
Badsnek
Enthusiast
You and everyone else saying this. The Covid spike in car pricing happened well before the headlight craze and other parts reaching stupid levels.
I would know. I was one of the guys who was offered $8k for my Gen 1/2 spare set of headlights and let them go. Kind of hard to claim the parts caused the car prices to rise when the cars rose first
Badsnek
Enthusiast
Unfortunately it’s never going to happen with current technology. Many Viper businesses have tried to go down this road, even Brian Jones and the money it would take to do it far exceeds the ROI.
Realistically you’re selling 10-20 sets of headlights a year. It’ll take you 5-10 years to break even. No one’s doing that.
However I do believe at some point down the road if technology advances enough it could become reasonable to do small batch runs of parts like headlights where it would make sense monetarily to do it.
Badsnek
Enthusiast
You misspelled Gen 3 Vert wrong.
Gen 3 Coupe prices have skyrocketed. R titles bringing $50k
Meanwhile you can get a nice Gen 3 Vert for $35$-40k.
By far the best bang for your buck in the Viper world.
Badsnek
Enthusiast
Agree with this 100%
Badsnek
Enthusiast
Food for thought. The majority of Vipers listed for sale across all gen’s are 40k miles and below. Typical average is 20k-40k miles.
Remember when these came out, most buying them were rich and wealthy people. The majority didn't drive them. One of the big reasons Hennessey was able to take advantage of Viper owners for as long as he did until he got caught. Hence why most of these cars have no miles on them compared to other sports cars that were mass produced and cheaper.
A lot of these that you see coming up for sale are old dudes who never drove them. Whether it was the guys who bought them from the dealer, or the 2nd/3rd/4th owner. You had to be well off back in the day to get your hands on one.
The people who are selling due to being afraid of the cost of ownership is a much smaller percentage in my opinion. I know in the last 5 years I’ve seen a lot of new owners who stretched themselves thin or well beyond their means to just buy one, hell myself included. You also have to take into account how insane the rest of the car markets went. You have younger people (below 40) looking around at other sports cars and deciding they’ll throw $40k at a Viper, enjoy it a bit, turn around and sell it. Even though in the last 6 years Viper prices shot up and went wild, a lot still are well below original MSRP. With that being said stop and think a minute of how well off you had to be 20-30+ years ago to afford that MSRP.
I will say there’s been an uptick in younger owners buying these, beating them, doing tasteless mods and then selling them within a year or two and that doesn’t help things either. But at least they are being enjoyed.
Entire point of that was to help give a different perspective on some things I’ve noticed
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Badsnek
Enthusiast
Looking for a friend the last several months I can assure you they did not drop, well at least the GTS’s
I remember in 2020 when you could buy a 96 B&W for $40k. I believe more than one went for around $90k +/- at Mecum last week. The only color that’s stayed at the $50-$60k level is red. Which pains me because of course mine is red. But hey, can’t win them all.
I do think the parts market will eventually catch up. I'm sure it will never be quite like the Corvette market where you can basically buy an entire car out of a magazine, but the longer the car is out of production and the more parts become unavailable, I think the more people you'll see step up and make them. I know they still likely won't be "cheap", but I'd taken "expensive and available" over "stupid expensive and salvage only". I agree too that modern technology might lead to better ability to make small batch parts. Stuff like 3D printing is perfect for that kind of market, if the part supports it well.
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