How Many Spin Outs or other loss of Control ?

Viperfreak2

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It aint the Viper by itself. It's the run flat tires and driving skill.

Example: put 500hp and 520torque in a Camry, then tell me there wouldn't be more than a couple people who claimed the car 'spun by itself' and 'it's the devils car'.

Yes, I spun my first Viper. Almost took out a guardrail. My heart stopped for a minute or two. I used to take the same corner in the Ferrari and could balance the tail so perfectly....The Viper has a different character that MUST BE LEARNED AND MASTERED. That said, I have spun the SRT on a cold day, and it was completely unexpected! It's just much easier to catch than the earlier cars.

Example two: put 500hp in a Ferrari, turn off the computer nanny (traction control) put run flats on it on a cold day and there would be a few sudden spins as well...
 

Shelby3

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Slippery surfaces,ice,snow,cold and wet teach car control.Steering corrections and using the pedals becomes instinctive.If its not you are lost.Of course dirt and gravel are good teachers too.These incidents are not racing related.Just lack of car control during simple manuvers.Basic how to use the brake,throttle and steering wheel on limited traction surfaces.AND most importantly your Brain. GTS Bruce


So very, very true. :usa:
 

Mamba man steve

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a question does turbo63 own a viper or maybe a porche????? i think that anyone one the form should be a regestered viper owner and maybe a separate section for these people to interact with us. gee i think this is a great idea i'll make a post on it.
 

rbarta

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a question does turbo63 own a viper or maybe a porche????? i think that anyone one the form should be a regestered viper owner and maybe a separate section for these people to interact with us. gee i think this is a great idea i'll make a post on it.

How does a non-Viper owner who is considering buying a Viper (like turbo63) ask any questions to make an informed decision then?
 

quick2tr

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In your first 6 months of Viper ownership, how many times have you spun out or otherwise lost control of your vehicle? Also, what climate or location did the situation occur? Thanks!

7500 miles in first year, never lost control.

Location is northern Illinois (Chicago).

Driven in temperatures down to 0'.

The SRT-10 seems safe for both normal and aggressive driving.
 

drdaveSRT

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Do burn outs in your driveway to heat them up.
RT 10 "...like balancing a grape on a knife..."
SRT is much better but still follows the laws of physics.

I've heard lot's of wrecKed 'em on the way home stories.
This is the fastest American production car to date. Show it respect or it will slap you in the face, hard.
A disclaimer is in order for first time viper buyers.

I also have @ 25k viper miles in an rt and srt and have spun several times on a track or when being purposely adventurous. The worst is spinning your tires at launch against a poser and having to speed to win.
 

Kai SRT10

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There wasnt a problem with my car that was any different than any other Viper. this obviously is an inherent problem with the cars if this can happen. The only pilot error I made was letting up the clutch. I didnt even have a chance to start driving. I don't care who was driving, the same thing would have happened.

You clearly learned nothing from your experience.

An "inherent problem with the cars?" Give me a break. If the wheel fell off, or the brakes failed, I could see your argument. That's not the case, however. You simply were not familiar with how the car handles and accelerates, and you overestimated your ability to control the car.

But wait. It can't be possible that you simply screwed up, because you attended a two day Porsche driving school. Your car must be the problem. You "know what you're doing" so it can't be your fault. It's that "devil car's" fault. The same thing would have happened no matter who was driving? That's probably true, provided that the driver made the same mistakes that you did. Oh yes, I forgot, you "gave it ONLY enough gas to blend into traffic." Perhaps you may have given it a little more gas than you intended.

It sounds like a pretty challenging piece of driving. A ramp, a curb, having to "accelerate to blend into the flow of traffic that is traveling at a minimum speed of 60 MPH." A bend in the road, so you can't see all the car's coming. It all sounds pretty scary. Maybe it's not the car's fault. Maybe it's the fault of the engineer that designed that on-ramp. Maybe it's the fault of the Derek Bell Porsche Precision Driving School because they didn't spend enough time working with you on merging into traffic. Maybe if you think about it long enough, you will find someone or something else to blame.

The Viper is an extremely high performance car, without the training wheels of stability control to keep you out of trouble. Do yourself, your passengers, and other drivers around you a favor and trade in your Viper and buy a Porsche or Corvette or Mercedes. Either that, or accept the fact that you don't know how to drive the Viper, and get the practice and training you need to learn how to drive it well.

Either way, stop complaining about the "inherent problems" with the car and take some responsibility for your own actions and decisions. Placing blame on the car for your mistake is just pathetic.
 

vipersrt10

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<How is this for experincing the bite of the Viper tire spin. I picked up my 2005 black Viper on 12/30/04. My friend's 19 yo daughter came with me>


-well we can understand that a 19yr old girl in the car can cause a temporary loss of concentration
 
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There is no Merit to handling problems with the cars!

There is merit to driving faster than conditions(loss of grip between tires and road surface) will allow.

You need to understand the limitations of the vehicle you are driving and be aware of your environment and always be prepared for the unexpected. Accidents do happen for to drivers who are paying attention and happen to come upon a substantial change in conditions.

Run flats or not Viper or SUV, wide tires approach acting like a flat bottom boat when hitting standing water. They tend to resist steering input that is meant to change direction. Very much like driving in icy conditions.

Do not blame the Viper or any car for the Pilots preparation or lack of same for changing road(grip) conditions and or driving faster than conditions allow, and do not forget the Pilot controls steering input and weight transfer and resultant impact on tire grip and loss of same.

To blame a car for loss of control or spinning is simply denial of Pilot error and responsibility, unless there was a catastrophic mechanical failure.
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Heh, how bout spinning for fun, as we had one participant fall off his horse and we have one opening now for the Woodhouse Racing School and Social Occasion at Sebring next week. Three full days in the Panoz GTRAs and we run the whole track. You can practice your spins and then have 24 other Viper owners critique you in the evening at the Bar --- heck, ***** still gives out certificates for joining the 360 Club. In fact , ask him why he is the Honorary President, and has never had any trouble at Re-election, ha,ha?!


Bill Pemberton
1-800-889-1893 to join us.
 
OP
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T

Turbo63

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Mamba Man, I own a Vette and a 911 Turbo Porsche -- was looking to add an SRT 10 to the stable and retire the Vette. I test drove the car, spent time researching it -- the concern I have relates to the many numerous posts about driving it -- clearly there is a ton of testosterone driven stories of wild spin outs etc and who knows if we would ever know the truth regarding what happened in those cases. Anyway, I have decided to continue my investigation -- found a place that rents exotics and will rent an RT/10 for a few days -- clearly not an SRT but it will give me more perspective and maybe even a purchase. Seems like I have stirred some stuff up on this site -- perhaps need to back off for a while, buy the car, change my screen name and return sometime in the future -- ah, who knows -- its cold here and not Viper or great Vette weather either -- I have a few more months to think about the car. Thanks
 

Viperized

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"
You clearly learned nothing from your experience.

An "inherent problem with the cars?" Give me a break. If the wheel fell off, or the brakes failed, I could see your argument. That's not the case, however. You simply were not familiar with how the car handles and accelerates, and you overestimated your ability to control the car.

But wait. It can't be possible that you simply screwed up, because you attended a two day Porsche driving school. Your car must be the problem. You "know what you're doing" so it can't be your fault. It's that "devil car's" fault. The same thing would have happened no matter who was driving? That's probably true, provided that the driver made the same mistakes that you did. Oh yes, I forgot, you "gave it ONLY enough gas to blend into traffic." Perhaps you may have given it a little more gas than you intended.

It sounds like a pretty challenging piece of driving. A ramp, a curb, having to "accelerate to blend into the flow of traffic that is traveling at a minimum speed of 60 MPH." A bend in the road, so you can't see all the car's coming. It all sounds pretty scary. Maybe it's not the car's fault. Maybe it's the fault of the engineer that designed that on-ramp. Maybe it's the fault of the Derek Bell Porsche Precision Driving School because they didn't spend enough time working with you on merging into traffic. Maybe if you think about it long enough, you will find someone or something else to blame.

The Viper is an extremely high performance car, without the training wheels of stability control to keep you out of trouble. Do yourself, your passengers, and other drivers around you a favor and trade in your Viper and buy a Porsche or Corvette or Mercedes. Either that, or accept the fact that you don't know how to drive the Viper, and get the practice and training you need to learn how to drive it well.

Either way, stop complaining about the "inherent problems" with the car and take some responsibility for your own actions and decisions. Placing blame on the car for your mistake is just pathetic.
"

Sheesh, you would think I was speaking ill of your mother.I only mentioned the school and the other cars so you wouldnt say that it was because I have no experience with the likes of the Viper. So tell me what I did wrong so I can learn from you since you are all-knowing. You can tell me that I misjudged in accelerating and that is why the car lost control. You can tell me that it had nothing to do with the nature of the Viper and I am just not the driver that you are, if you do that is fine but it is bullsh*t. Maybe you are right that it takes some adjusting to the way this car behaves. However, after I drove the car for very a short time i would not know that, and it is this inherent nature that made the car react the way it did. All I'm doing is pointing out this quality of the way the car drives, and the fact that a new Viper driver wouldn't be able to know about it until it was, perhaps, too late. If you would call this sort of thing, under these circumstances, "the fault of the driver," I would have to disagree. Look on the posts ahead of me and you can see that I am not the only one with this experience and other people do mention the tires and cold weather as having an adverse affect on this cars traction. All of this aside, your reaction to my experience and feelings about the car, and your willingness to attack me personally only educates me to one thing, and that is if you have the attitude of the average Viper driver then I truly feel ill. I have to hope that this is not the case, because I dont want to turn out that way just because I own a Viper.
 

Kai SRT10

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Sheesh, you would think I was speaking ill of your mother.I only mentioned the school and the other cars so you wouldnt say that it was because I have no experience with the likes of the Viper. So tell me what I did wrong so I can learn from you since you are all-knowing.

"All knowing" I like the sound of that.

Well, since you asked:
I think that your first mistake was believing that seat time in a Porsche gave you "experience with the likes of the Viper."
I think that your second mistake was driving your brand new car into a pole.
I think that your third mistake was blaming your car for your first two mistakes.


You can tell me that I misjudged in accelerating and that is why the car lost control. You can tell me that it had nothing to do with the nature of the Viper and I am just not the driver that you are, if you do that is fine but it is bullsh*t.

I didn't say that you are not the driver that I am. I didn't say anything at all about my driving skills. If you had 2 days of any driving school, my guess is that you knew way more about driving than I did when I first got my Viper. You may still be a better driver than I am. I have no way to gauge your driving skills. I think that the reason that I didn't wreck my Viper early on wasn't that I was a good driver. The reason I didn't wreck is that I was scared to death of the car from day one. My guess as to why you wrecked your car was that weren't scared enough.

Here's one of my first posts on this forum. It will give you an idea about my thoughts on my driving abilities:

I'm Not Worthy

Maybe you are right that it takes some adjusting to the way this car behaves. However, after I drove the car for very a short time i would not know that, and it is this inherent nature that made the car react the way it did. All I'm doing is pointing out this quality of the way the car drives, and the fact that a new Viper driver wouldn't be able to know about it until it was, perhaps, too late. If you would call this sort of thing, under these circumstances, "the fault of the driver," I would have to disagree.

Maybe Ralph Nader is tired of pretending to run for President and will now have time to start protecting us helpless Americans from dangerous cars again. Perhaps you should call him. I'm sure he would be sympathetic to your arguments. No doubt he wouldn't mind writing a sequel to "Unsafe at Any Speed." He could call it "Unsafe On Any On-ramp." I don't think I'll be buying the book, however, and I really don't buy your arguments either.

Look on the posts ahead of me and you can see that I am not the only one with this experience and other people do mention the tires and cold weather as having an adverse affect on this cars traction.

Lots of people have spun their Vipers. It can happen to anyone. It's likely only a matter of time before I lose control of my car. I'm not critical of you because you lost control of your car. My criticism is directed at you because you lost control of the car and concluded that the car is at fault. Buy a new car, run it into a pole, then start telling everyone that it's the car's fault and you are blameless. It's simply comical. Sorry, but you deserve to be mocked.

All of this aside, your reaction to my experience and feelings about the car, and your willingness to attack me personally only educates me to one thing, and that is if you have the attitude of the average Viper driver then I truly feel ill. I have to hope that this is not the case, because I dont want to turn out that way just because I own a Viper.

Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm a ****. I'm not going to blame anyone else for my being a ****, however. If I'm a ****, I'm pretty sure it's my own fault.
 
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"Sheesh, you would think I was speaking ill of your mother.I only mentioned the school and the other cars so you wouldnt say that it was because I have no experience with the likes of the Viper. So tell me what I did wrong so I can learn from you since you are all-knowing. You can tell me that I misjudged in accelerating and that is why the car lost control. You can tell me that it had nothing to do with the nature of the Viper and I am just not the driver that you are, if you do that is fine but it is bullsh*t. Maybe you are right that it takes some adjusting to the way this car behaves. However, after I drove the car for very a short time i would not know that, and it is this inherent nature that made the car react the way it did. All I'm doing is pointing out this quality of the way the car drives, and the fact that a new Viper driver wouldn't be able to know about it until it was, perhaps, too late. If you would call this sort of thing, under these circumstances, "the fault of the driver," I would have to disagree. Look on the posts ahead of me and you can see that I am not the only one with this experience and other people do mention the tires and cold weather as having an adverse affect on this cars traction. All of this aside, your reaction to my experience and feelings about the car, and your willingness to attack me personally only educates me to one thing, and that is if you have the attitude of the average Viper driver then I truly feel ill. I have to hope that this is not the case, because I dont want to turn out that way just because I own a Viper." :eek:

[/QUOTE]

Time to leave being politically correct.

I Call Major BS, but I think I get it. You Accept No Responsibility!

The drivers and your passengers around you need to worry! Based on you ownership of what happened to you!

I have many tens of thousands of miles on Vipers(96RT, 97GTS, 98GT2, 99ACR, 2003RT). They are great handling cars with massive acceleration, great grip and the GEN III has better brakes than any thing you have driven as well as better than most Super Cars in the World!

So why did you crash???? What did the police report say? I suspect you missed a shift with the excitement of showing a 19 year old how well you could drive. Who was controlling the engine speed? Who was controlling the steering wheel? Who was controlling the brakes? Who was looking at the driving conditions? Did a tire blow? Did a wheel fall off? Did a tie rod come lose or break? did the steering wheel come off? Look at physics the Viper has massive tires, weights about 3400 pounds, almost 50/50 weight distribution. Unless something broke, there is no possible way to lose control unless the Driver gets the car out of balance and fails to correct his input(steering, throttle and or braking)! It is simple lose control of the car and you do not understand why? Take more Driving schools until you get it or let someone else drive! After becoming a Viperholic, I have taken 13 Skip Barber Courses, employed Skip Barber instructors to ride with me at Laguna Seca in NASA and Green Flag open track events. I think I get it! It is my eyes looking ahead and judging my surroundings, and it is my feet controlling the brakes and gas, it is my brain that considers the tires their condition, the weather, and connects these to control the car.

Failure of a Driver to control any car is the Drivers Responsibility! Unless as stated earlier there was a catastrophic mechanical failure! Every car is different and it is the drivers Responsibility to learn his vehicles features and handling characteristics. :2tu:

P.S.
:headbang:
http://norcal.viperclub.org/event_detail.php?event=1106001337
:headbang:
 

Snakester

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Last year a worker was pulling a new Corvette off of a carrier at the dealership and accidentally hit the gas too hard and lost control wrecking 6 cars. :p
His comment was that the (350HP) Corvette just had "too much power"! :eek:

I've had the rear step out twice when I downshifted from high speed and it unsettled the car. Both times I put the clutch back in and the car straightened out fine, but it did scare me. Still I don't consider that a flaw in the car, but in my driving skill. And other than those forced situations, the Viper's handling has been flawless even when pushed hard. :cool:

I for one am willing to believe the tire detailing explaination though, as I've heard first-hand of two separate drivers who wrecked their cars after they had just detailed their cars, and both times the guys foolishly put Armor All on the tire tread (not just the sidewalls) and subsequently spun/wrecked their cars. :eek:

The key element here is that I see the Viper as being a more capable handling car than most others on the road today. It is a very well balanced performance car, and the SRT-10 Viper is improved even more than previous generations in this regard.

Having 500HP+ and TONS of torque combined with no electronic traction control means that it can't be driven at speed casually. But given decent road surfaces, and respect for the car's power, it's the most rewarding car to drive that I've ever experienced. :2tu:
 

Viperized

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I am not trying to impress anyone, I have no reputation to maintain in this forum, nor do i have reason to give anything but a true accounting of what happened. A topic was raised (tire spin) and I felt that I should relate an experience that touched on it. This is a situation where not only do i have the driving skills necessary( most anyone would), but in which no advanced driving skills should have been necessary. This was simply pulling on to an on ramp at low speeds, one which I had been on many times before. You guys werent there to know the situation. I didnt know that I should be afraid of my new car because I didnt have "tens of thousands of Viper miles under my belt. I never said that the Viper wasnt a great car, I simply stated that its nature was unknown to me, none of you have denied that is its nature due to huge torque and wide tires. That is all I am saying. If you want to ram this down my throat until I admit to you that it was all my fault fine, it was my fault and it would never have happened if I had 50 weeks at Skip Barber. It was sure fun being on your forum I learned a lot.

PS: You deserve full credit for taking responsibility for being a ****, BRAVO. Then again, maybe it was your environment growing up and therefore not your fault.
 

Viperized

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Okay, before you guys tear me a new one I am goin to come clean. I was at the stop sign staring down the 19 year olds shirt. I got so excited I stomped on the gas, forgot about the massive 500 HP, smoked the tires(NOT the Vipers fault), just then a lamp post jumped in front of me. All through this i never took my eyes off those beautiful ta-tas. When it was over I was wet on both sides of my pants. She left a brown spot on the passenger seat.We were both spent.I then smoked a cigarette, drove the car around and did it again and again. I may not be able to handle a Viper but I take full responsibility for my horniness. The Viper told me that it forgives me but insists that being the [******] I am it wants to be traded to a team in California and I should go buy my girlie man Porsche. I promised my little 19 yo that when she comes back from class Im going to buy a Ninja to take her for a ride. She promised to bring her litle room mate friends along next time. First, I am going to spray a little Armorall on the tires to get the full effect. Watch out all you lamp posts!! Boy I feel so much better getting that off my chest. Thanks for all your help in making me see the light and purging my guilt. Excuse me, be right there you sweet little thing, sorry have to go now.See ya at driving school.
 
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Pretty funny. :D

Most can understand this explanation of what happened.

But most important glad no one was injured! And sorry about the car damage but that is easy to fix.
 

Viperized

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Boy these cars are expensive to fix, wheels $2800, Tires $390.00, bumper cover $1000, carbon fiber panel $2400.00 etc. I should be getting the car back within the week, cant wait. From now on, I only take my wife for a ride in the Viper. My little CG only goes in the Porsche where I dont have to watch what I am doing.
 

Kai SRT10

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Boy these cars are expensive to fix, wheels $2800, Tires $390.00, bumper cover $1000, carbon fiber panel $2400.00 etc. I should be getting the car back within the week, cant wait. From now on, I only take my wife for a ride in the Viper. My little CG only goes in the Porsche where I dont have to watch what I am doing.

If you have to replace the wheels, you may want to look at some aftermarket wheels instead of the stock wheels. Forgeline, Purner, and others make some very nice wheels that are substantially lighter weight than the stock wheels.

If you really want stock, give Jon B at www.partsrack.com a call. He often has gently used stock wheels available at good prices (as well as other wheels.)
 

JonB

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1) UPGRADE YOUR S O F T W A R E. It is located between your ears. Once properly modified, and PRACTICED, your driving will be much FASTER and much SAFER. Viper Days; Skip Barber; Bondurant; etc. learn in a VIPER if possible, becasue not much else compares.....

2) Since you asked: I nearly lost my 93 the day I bought it. My race licence had expired in 1972 (yes '72) and I only raced dogs after that. So I went back to SCHOOL as mentioned in item #1 and upgraded my software.

On 2 street occasions I NEARLY lost 1 or another of my (12) Vipers due to "compromised" traction conditions. Sand; rain; leaves; Thankfully, the software was upgraded and no damage was done.

And Ive had a couple of truly glorious spins on track when I hit OIL, and when I hit COOLANT (mine). Thankfully, I had upgraded my software and maintained basic directional control.

OH....have you seen those intentional nasty-smoky-burnout DONUTS? At PIR-Portland, more than a FEW call me the "Donut King." [Not due to my mid-section.] If you LEARN how to dance-spin the car, it is easier to handle when you get surprised. Stan-Stan the Driftin' Man proves the point. BE SAFE OUT THERE !!!
 
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