Is the coupe DOA versus the Z06??

[vipah]

At a list price of nearly $25k more, and perhaps equal performance, who will buy the coupe?

Don't give me this exclusivity crap, that is just a smoke screen.

What a shame. DC should be very embarrassed.

 

[Inferno]

At a list price of nearly $25k more, and perhaps equal performance, who will buy the coupe?

Don't give me this exclusivity crap, that is just a smoke screen.

What a shame. DC should be very embarrassed.

It sounds like better performance, not equal. It is a shame, corvette's are now faster than viper's.

 

[sween]

*** do you mean its a shame? the viper deserves costing 25K more than the vette. the vipers exotic the vette aint. thats why it costs 25K mor. if i had the money id buy the srt-10 coupe.

 

[29OUTLAW]

Even without the Z06 there's still nothing left but exclusivity.

Heck, for $7-8K an SRT-4 or a Cobra can easily waste any stock SRT-10. Plus, the chances of running into one on the street is a lot greater than running into a 2006 Z06.

 

[Viperfreak2]

The new guy at the Chrysler half of DC should read the above post (sorry sween)very carefully. Your new coupe appeals to 16 year olds, whos' spedometer *** work.

Both made in America, both 2 door sports cars. One with an Aluminum chassis (not very exotic?) and dry sump and forged blah blah blah (all been said before) and the one with the superior technology is way cheaper. Hmmm.

I know, it's all about the numbers produced, but that's what makes it RARE, not exotic.

Having the highest performance (with killer looks) makes a car an object of LUST, not being 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.

 

[sween]

the ZO6 is nice but id still rather have the srt-10 coupe. if you have the Z06 people will just think its and everyday vette and will only give it one look.if your in the srt-10 coupe people will stare at the car and try and figure out what it is. also the viper has the biggest prodution engine, the vette has a big engine but its no 8.3 liter. the viper also has 55 more pounds of torque than the vette. plus the viper has amazing brakes and a extremly good skid pad.thats why i would take the viper

 

[viking]

Having just switched from a confirmed vette order to the Viper in the last 3 months, my primary motivation was the vette's problems with production. They never made the car they promised last year and I don't think it will be different with the Z06. They may only produce 1 or 2000 next year and there will be a myriad of problems (albeit small) with the new production year. By the time the car is in regular production the Viper will be faster. Even now the Viper could add K&N air and probably beat the Z06. Those people who would want the z06 in its single color are just as likely to want a viper which like a harley is a lot more modifiable.
I don't think exclusivity is anything more than an excuse for a car company but the Viper's looks are far superior. The zo6 looks like another parts bin modification on the outside even if they did flare the wheelwells.

 

[Janni]

I am going to reserve judgement until I say eyes on this car.

Also, something that few folks are noting.... While the Z06 appears to be technologically superior on paper (dry sump, use of aluminum), I am VERY concerned about what's gonna happen to that car once it gets out there and people start tracking it or running SCCA T1. The last new iteration of the Z06 blew motors left and right during race weekends. The Viper motor is VERY unstressed. The new Z06 motor will be running 11:1 compression ratio and who the heck knows how that'll translate on the track. And I do believe that the Viper will still have a huge braking advantage if the Z06 brakes are what I remember them showing early on.

Let's just say this could get real interesting.... there are folks that are drawn to the Viper because of exclusivity and will always be so. There are others that are drawn to the "bang for the buck" aspect of the Viper, some for the asthetics and still others that are just performance junkies. Each can justify his/her purchase. I want it all.

 

[Joseph Houss]

Great topic.... especially on our VCA site!

IMHO the Z06 is the closest GM will come to performing with our Vipers... BUT it has taken them a LONG time to get here... and as Janni suggested, their blend of engine technology and lightened components are still to be proven "on any weekend". Oh... and lets not forget, that we've had our SRT's on the road for 3 years prior to Chevy coming up with something similar.

What WE know, first hand, is the Viper is truly a VERY durable PROVEN weekend warrior with impressive supercar performance.

Here's to the bowties for allowing us to invite a few extra folks to our roadcourse events.

Obviously, exclusivity, as much as most won't admit it, WILL also play an important rule down the road. 10,000 Z06's per year.... AND another 20,000 or so rather similar looking C6's running around the US will stop many buyers in their tracks from opening up their wallet for a Z06. Although most on this site are track rats ... and appreciate the potential impressive performance of this competitor, many others, who want a weekend cruiser, will opt for the less expensive C6... or will be looking in Dodge showrooms for the exclusivity and impressive performance of our SRT's.

IMHO, The Blue/White coupe WILL bring many first time buyers into the showroom ... who missed the boat in '96 (along with many of us who want a PROVEN performer). Some will even switch to a convertible once they realize that the coupe is ... well .... a coupe....

and if the Z06 runs a close to us on the quarter mile... or close to us at Pocono or Gateway .... well, so be it, but rest assured that our friends at SRT are not sitting around twiddling their thumbs! ... and one thing is for sure, we won't EVER count more than a handful of Vipers traveling down the road in any MONTH, other than when we're getting together for a VCA event or of course.... a gathering that NO bowtie gets to enjoy.... our VOI's!

 

[NK BREKR]

Amen! To what Joseph said in the post above.

 

[wormdoggy]

Having had other high production vehicles I would definitely pay 20k more for a Vehicle with the performance of the Viper and its low production. I will definitely never buy a vehicle that I see at every street corner.

Porsche is a example of a company going through a fundamental change for the sake of making profits. It has extended its product line from 3 - 4 cars to now 10 or more. Imagaine seeing a Viper SUV or a Viper wagon................oh Lord !

In my opinion, DC is correct in its marketing assessment. Great job.

Cheers
patrick

 

[Vperluver]

Actually, the ZO6 is a whole new car for Chevrolet. I love Viper's too, but Corvette is coming strong with this ZO6. It's considered an exotic also, it's handmade just like the Viper, it only weighs 3,130 and it has 505 HP, and 0-60 in 3.7. It looks amazing in person, it doesn't look the way it look in magazines. I can't stand Vettes but I'm just telling the truth, I'm giving credit where credit is due. Also Sween, the brakes on the ZO6 are awesome. It's a great car, just waiting on the test between it and the Viper.

 

[dirk989]

I hate to jump into any thread started by Vipah because it ALWAYS turns into an ugly SRT-10 bash, but.....

I've had several Vettes, but clearly none of them were in the same league as my srt-10. The new Vette isn't any different.

Everyone is making a lot of assumptions about the new Vette's performance based on released potential specs and guesses so I'll do the same. With a lot less torque and a little bit less weight it will still be competitive in 0 -60 against a Viper simply because of the gearing. Different gearing and the Viper still kills it. Also, the Viper's power and torque is available across the power band. A Viper, even stock, will probably outperform the Vette on the road and on the track because of the broad available power.

Also, the Viper engine has sooooo much potential. Spend very little money on something like K & N filters or spend a little more for exhaust, or headers or even more for superchargers or turbos and the Vette is left waaaay behind. The Vette engine is maxed out and little can be done without changing the internals.

As for looks, it doesn't make sense to argue something subjective. Some like it, some hate it. Same with Vipers. There are people in this world who believe an El Camino is the sexiest car ever produced. However, to me the Vette looks like a generic, mass produced imitation of the Viper.

GM made something that tries to look like a Gen III Viper and the sheep all yell how exotic it is, but at the same time they call the Gen III plain.

Obviously I like the Viper.

Dirk

 

[vipah]

Great topic.... especially on our VCA site!

You don't think the Viper site is a good place to discuss the new coupe? Are you serious?

IMHO the Z06 is the closest GM will come to performing with our Vipers... BUT it has taken them a LONG time to get here... and as Janni suggested, their blend of engine technology and lightened components are still to be proven "on any weekend". Oh... and lets not forget, that we've had our SRT's on the road for 3 years prior to Chevy coming up with something similar.

What WE know, first hand, is the Viper is truly a VERY durable PROVEN weekend warrior with impressive supercar performance.

Here's to the bowties for allowing us to invite a few extra folks to our roadcourse events.

Obviously, exclusivity, as much as most won't admit it, WILL also play an important rule down the road. 10,000 Z06's per year.... AND another 20,000 or so rather similar looking C6's running around the US will stop many buyers in their tracks from opening up their wallet for a Z06. Although most on this site are track rats ... and appreciate the potential impressive performance of this competitor, many others, who want a weekend cruiser, will opt for the less expensive C6... or will be looking in Dodge showrooms for the exclusivity and impressive performance of our SRT's.

IMHO, The Blue/White coupe WILL bring many first time buyers into the showroom ... who missed the boat in '96 (along with many of us who want a PROVEN performer). Some will even switch to a convertible once they realize that the coupe is ... well .... a coupe....

and if the Z06 runs a close to us on the quarter mile... or close to us at Pocono or Gateway .... well, so be it, but rest assured that our friends at SRT are not sitting around twiddling their thumbs! ... and one thing is for sure, we won't EVER count more than a handful of Vipers traveling down the road in any MONTH, other than when we're getting together for a VCA event or of course.... a gathering that NO bowtie gets to enjoy.... our VOI's!

I bet you are right that you won't see many Vipers traveling down the road, especially new coupes.

Face it, the king of the hill days for Viper are over, and I for one think it is sad.

Why not put a V6 in the Viper and build only a dozen a year? Then you can have some realy exclusivity! LMAO

 

[sween]

dont even joke about the v6 thing thats not even funny.

 

[ledfoot]

vipah...does this mean your dumping yor measly 450 hp car with bad breaks,since styling and exclusivity mean so little to you..

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Not worried, not skeerd. Welcome GM. 14 years of whoopin' your butt started to get a little pathetic.

 

[DSR207]

I'll tell you one thing for sure, GM has some loyal customers, they stood by it all this time, nothing like what you see here...Who knows it might be a good thing to fall behind for a short while and **** out the fake fans...

 

[Paul Hawker]

Interesting point that just got glossed over.

The Z06 is a highly tweaked vette. Even their engineers admit there will be little room for enhancement from the aftermarket.

We have seen these supervettes before, just from tuners, not from the factory.

On the other hand the Viper can go toe to toe with the Zo6 in stock form, and has LOTS of room for enhancements.

Think I will stick with the Viper.

It is unreasonable to try to compare a car, that has not even come to market yet, with our developed SRT's. Lets see what Chevy comes to market with before we start shaking in out boots.

Even if the vette finally rises to the level the Viper has set. The Viper still has room to raise the bar further.

 

[Gforce]

Vperlover -

Have to say I totally agree with you. Having just gone through the purchase decision, I seriously considered the new Z06. It looks incredible in person.

I think they did a great job separating it visually from the standard C6 and that this is what they meant to do in 99 (or whenver) when they came out with the original hardtops.

The reason I chose the viper were:
1. Its a viper (duh). Hate to admit it but I love the stares and little bit if fame that exclusivity in a car like this brings.

2. I really like the viper folks - on this list and in the OR+WA VCA.

3. I new I could make a few mods (Motons+K&N+flywheel+gears+track wheels/tires) and not get embarrassed. I expect that with the above, I should be able to come out on top. Now I am into this thing for probably $85K but I was not after bang for the buck - I was after the best track car I'd love to drive on the street for under $120K. F430 was next on my list but substantally in a different price range.

4. Its a convertible.

The first couple are only because I had a 1999 GTS coupe. The next one most people won't know so unless they want a convertible, I would not be surprised to see people flocking to the Z06.

As much as I hate to say it (and I do growl at covettes ) this is a serious car.

The good news is that I probably won't meet up with them at the track this year due to production delays and by next year, my Viper and I will be Zen driving so its all good.

j

 

[vipah]

I'll tell you one thing for sure, GM has some loyal customers, they stood by it all this time, nothing like what you see here...Who knows it might be a good thing to fall behind for a short while and **** out the fake fans...

This is some of the most absurd comments I have ever heard.

How about staying in front? Why do the customers have to be loyal to DC when DC wasn't loyal to the customers? You have this backwards, but you are the perfect lemming for the DC marketing team.

DC had the king of the hill from 93 to 2001 or so, then they became complacent since they figured there would be a group of lemmings that would take anything they put the Viper badge on. Competition is expected, and should be anticipated. There was no reason DC had to let GM catch up. As so many are willing to state, the V10 has a lot more room to play with, but DC chose not to. Do you really think they will screw anyone buying a brand new coupe by improving it in the most needed area in the next year?

How many of the folks on this board that run their own companies would tell their engineers that it a good thing that the competition has caught up and developed a superior product against yours? Heck, don't worry guys, that's fine, it was bound to happen, we'll paint ours a new color so don't worry. Hell no. You would be jumping all over the engineers and the marketing guys for letting it happen. Isn't it strange that DC doesn't seem to care?

Given the lack luster sales of the SRT, and soon to be coupe, you can expect your loyal DC crew to drop the Viper like a hot potato soon. Just look how many of the different mamba editions you can pick up. This was hardly the case with the special edition Gen IIs.

This was NEVER the case in the Gen I/ Gen II years. There was no question of performance and styling, and bang for the buck.

Perhaps the folks at DC aren't focusing on selling Vipers to the original target group of people who wanted pure gut wrenching performance. Perhaps, as evidenced by many on this board, they just want to focus on posers that couldn't step up to a Ferrari.

The truth hurts.

I know how disspointed I am.

 

[ledfoot]

Vipah,One word.....Prozac.......Please correct me if I'm wrong. But I thought Viper sales for 03/04 where higher than for 01/02

 

[vipersrt10]

Im tempted to go buy the new Z06, to park beside my 04 viper, but its what stops me is ITS STILL A VETTE, I cant get that out of my mind. I just read how it lapped the Nurinberg circuit (spelling?) in 7 minutes 42 seconds or whatever, which is awesome, but the article said the GM guys spent DAYS setting the car up for the test driver to run it. Spend enought time tuning a GEO Metro, itll run some good times too

 

[Gerald]

Vipah, Im' looking at getting another serious car very soon. Choices are of course, Viper, Vette, Porsche, Mustang, etc. I will never drive a VW and the stang, well, LOL!! In this world, ppl look for exclusivity, just as you do. I mean, look at the photos in your gallery. You yearn to be "special" with the chics parked around your car.. The photo would just **** ass around a vette now wouldn't it?

The GenIII's have grown on me and the performance are pretty damn close the new Z06 if NOT better. Torque is king and torque below the line wins races. I still say race a nice GenIII against the New Z06 and the Torque king would win. After all, add a passenger to a car going down the 1/4 mile and your times will NOT change if any.. That 200 pound ******** has got you hook line and sinker. I honestly think you should sell your POS viper and get a C4 vette.. it'd do you just fine there champ...

The handling, brakes, 500 Cubic inches, are a no brainer. I guess you like the smaller V8 vette. And perhaps you love the 3.6 liter V6 Supra even better... The V10 just [******] owns. If your too stupid to see past your nose, don't leave your house.
G

 

[sween]

you know whats kind of funny about that article is that they dont include a srt-10 time. i wonder why they would do that.

 

[1TONY1]

At a list price of nearly $25k more, and perhaps equal performance, who will buy the coupe?

How much more did your GTS cost vs say a 01 or 02 Z06 ? That Zo6 had very similar performance (maybe better on the track) and the price difference was probably near the same (I'm not familiar with exact vette pricing)

I've never worried about what any car could do stock....if I was worried about getting beat my car sure the hell wouldn't be stock.

 

[Hirohawa]

Vipah - Very well said. It is never a good thing when the competition catches up.

About Mods - in 1997 when the C5 premiered no one thought it would be able to to stroke and add twin turbos to over 700 HP, like the lingenfelter 427TT.

GM has already thrown on a Supercharger on the LS7 that is rumored to have at least 600hp. This enging being tweaked to it's limits is wishful thinking. There will be a slew of high HP options within 2 years.

I'll tell you one thing for sure, GM has some loyal customers, they stood by it all this time, nothing like what you see here...Who knows it might be a good thing to fall behind for a short while and **** out the fake fans...

This is some of the most absurd comments I have ever heard.

How about staying in front? Why do the customers have to be loyal to DC when DC wasn't loyal to the customers? You have this backwards, but you are the perfect lemming for the DC marketing team.

DC had the king of the hill from 93 to 2001 or so, then they became complacent since they figured there would be a group of lemmings that would take anything they put the Viper badge on. Competition is expected, and should be anticipated. There was no reason DC had to let GM catch up. As so many are willing to state, the V10 has a lot more room to play with, but DC chose not to. Do you really think they will screw anyone buying a brand new coupe by improving it in the most needed area in the next year?

How many of the folks on this board that run their own companies would tell their engineers that it a good thing that the competition has caught up and developed a superior product against yours? Heck, don't worry guys, that's fine, it was bound to happen, we'll paint ours a new color so don't worry. Hell no. You would be jumping all over the engineers and the marketing guys for letting it happen. Isn't it strange that DC doesn't seem to care?

Given the lack luster sales of the SRT, and soon to be coupe, you can expect your loyal DC crew to drop the Viper like a hot potato soon. Just look how many of the different mamba editions you can pick up. This was hardly the case with the special edition Gen IIs.

This was NEVER the case in the Gen I/ Gen II years. There was no question of performance and styling, and bang for the buck.

Perhaps the folks at DC aren't focusing on selling Vipers to the original target group of people who wanted pure gut wrenching performance. Perhaps, as evidenced by many on this board, they just want to focus on posers that couldn't step up to a Ferrari.

The truth hurts.

I know how disspointed I am.

 

[vipah]

At a list price of nearly $25k more, and perhaps equal performance, who will buy the coupe?

How much more did your GTS cost vs say a 01 or 02 Z06 ? That Zo6 had very similar performance (maybe better on the track) and the price difference was probably near the same (I'm not familiar with exact vette pricing)

I've never worried about what any car could do stock....if I was worried about getting beat my car sure the hell wouldn't be stock.

Great, another absurd comment. Compare same year cars, not a new car and one that is older.

When DC saw the Z06 catching up they should have done something, but they didn't. And most of you don't seem to care. It is truly laughable.

 

[vipah]

The GenIII's have grown on me and the performance are pretty damn close the new Z06 if NOT better.

And somehow you think this is a great accomplishment for team Viper. You actually proved my point, thanks.

Perhaps you need to get your head out of the sand and have a cup of reality.

 

[DSR207]

One question for you vipah : Why are you posting here ?

I mean, it's very obvious you don't like GEN III, so why do you torture your self ?