My town has a new DARE car

[Tracy]

To those of you who wrote to the paper, THANK YOU!!!!

I would encourage everyone to do the same.

I went through downtown Plainfield during cruise night tonight in my blue and white. I would have loved to stop to check out the yellow Viper but my exhaust is a little loud and seeing how I really like my Viper I was careful to tap the gas through town, didn't speed, wore my seatbelt and went home.

I still have my Viper! Yay!

 

[JUCD VPR]

I think it's total Bull$hit that they seized his car for that, I agree he's an idiot, should get some jailtime , heafty fine, and loss of his liscense for a while but to seize his personal property is going to far. He didn;t harm anyone and thats the point, IF he did that would have been a different story but you can say "WHAT IF" all day but it all comes down to he didn;t harm anyone. Did he run from the cops? because oing 135 i doubt he even saw the cop, and also when your goign 135 it's hard to slow down fast, he probably just blisted down the road, slowed down, made his turn and by then a mile later a cop flys up and BAM RUNNING FROm THE COPS. But STILL I don;t think they should have seized the car, like someone else said if he was driving a different car would they have seized it? probably not but the fact it's a DODGE VIPER they decided to take it. Now what does this show other cops? That they can do the same thing, watch out everyone i'm sure every D.A.R.E program would love a Dodge viper, you could be next the way the crooked system is these days! Complete BS!
There is no way I would let them take my Viper, i'd rather run it into a concrete wall, then insurance pays for it and cops get a totaled viper

 

[AFL in NJ]

I know about Cops who have too much power as I got railroaded through a Careless Driving conviction last year and in my defense I subpeoned the Officer's video of the traffic stop, and transcribed it word by word. It didn't matter that they made me appear 5 times (and didn't throw out the case), or any of the evidence, it was a matter of getting a conviction and the judge went with such a bogus conclusion that had I hit a magical oil spot, I might have spun out and might have caused an accident; I told that was speculation and he threatened me with contempt of court if I said anything more. That being said, I don't think the owner of this Viper got it siezed because of felony eluding, I believe he chose to give up the car as part of a plea agreement and although none of us would have done that...maybe he is a little different.

Someday I'll post the video of my traffic stop on youtube and the transcript of court, etc. and we can all get a good laugh at the communists in Tinton Falls, NJ

Regards,
Aaron

 

[B SNAKE 1]

A badge & a gun. They make up their own RULES as they go!!
Questions:
1.Was there video of the viper chase??
2.Was the radar gun checked??
3.Cops word vs. Joe Public's word??
4.Did the cop clocked the speed of the fan and not the car??

 

[DrDJ]

I think I see someone loosening the power steering cap....

 

[got one]

Do we know the day and what time it was. Saturday night at 2am...probably not a lot going on. Also realize, as I am sure most of you do, it doesn't take much to hit 130...just a few seconds...all I am saying, is it sounds like they might have siezed it a litle premature on this one. What is the context of everything? So many times in situations the context is never taken into account...hell, just watch any of the major television broadcasts to see examples of lack of context...

 

[jeffdai]

When the government can seize your personal property for a traffic offense, thats absolutly insane. I cant believe anyone on here would think it is justified to take this guys car no matter how fast he was going. Im sure over half of us have went close to 100 over the speed limit before, yet some people act like this guy is a major criminal just for speeding probably at night when not a single person was around

 

[v10kingsnake]

on he bright side of all this the car did have the doo-doo brown interior...

 

[jay01m]

What's a "Dodgee" Viper???? What is up with this country when a newspaper can't even spell?? ...

...I just can't quite visualize that.

Fixed

 

[jay01m]

Funny part is, if it were a piece of crap mustang or camaro, they wouldn't have cared twice, probably never seized the car, instead impounded it and charged a bunch to get it back. This is definately uncle Sam sticking it to the wealthy, or hard worker, who owned a cool car.

I think the police took advantage of the situation and overstepped their bounds by seizing this Viper. I think if I lived in that town, I wouldn't promote embracing that car as the DARE car.

 

[Cop Magnet]

So, I wonder if the guy owes on the Viper, and stops making payments now, if they REPO the cop car??

 

[yogibayer]

Funny part is, if it were a piece of crap mustang or camaro, they wouldn't have cared twice, probably never seized the car....

The old DARE car was a 1990's Camaro

 

[Venomiss]

This is the latest update for those who want to know......interesting stuff!
Hi Mary,
I just met with the state’s attorney, Jim Glasgow, who explained that this man had his Viper seized because he was arrested for a felony charge of fleeing and eluding police. Under state law vehicles may be forfeited for that offense. Glasgow said the driver/owner of the car had a suspended license, which is why he ran from police.

The driver/owner had two trials, one on the car seizure and one on the criminal charge, before two different judges. One judge found him guilty of the fleeing and eluding felony charge, one judge found he used his car to commit the offense.

I don’t remember hearing about this incident or seeing anything about this in local papers at the time (March 2006).

You aren’t bugging me at all! Write me anytime. I hope that information helps. I’m working on a story about the state seizure law and process because I’ve gotten quite a few calls and e-mails from people asking about it.

Janet

 

[kcobean]

This is the latest update for those who want to know......interesting stuff!
Hi Mary,
I just met with the state’s attorney, Jim Glasgow, who explained that this man had his Viper seized because he was arrested for a felony charge of fleeing and eluding police. Under state law vehicles may be forfeited for that offense. Glasgow said the driver/owner of the car had a suspended license, which is why he ran from police.

The driver/owner had two trials, one on the car seizure and one on the criminal charge, before two different judges. One judge found him guilty of the fleeing and eluding felony charge, one judge found he used his car to commit the offense.

I don’t remember hearing about this incident or seeing anything about this in local papers at the time (March 2006).

You aren’t bugging me at all! Write me anytime. I hope that information helps. I’m working on a story about the state seizure law and process because I’ve gotten quite a few calls and e-mails from people asking about it.

Janet

That is great of you/them to follow up like that.

I have a couple of problems with this:

1. If "felony fleeing and evading" is the charge, and it's the same crime whether you do it on foot or by car, then would a $50K cash fine be imposed for doing it on foot? I seriously doubt that's the case.

2. They're not assigning a value to the forfeiture, they're viewing the value as "1 car", so the same crime committed by a guy driving a Yugo would ultimately be punished at a different level even though "1 car" was seized.

3. Fleeing and evading doesn't *necessarily* imply that he endangered anyone in the process (the speeding being a separate incident). That said, it's a non-violent felony.

In the end, I agree that he should pay a hefty penalty for his actions. Forfeiting a car that may not be replaceable in this scenario is not a fair punishment.

 

[GR8_ASP]

If a Viper was truly trying to elude the Police it would. Unless there was a major road block or accident. I still do not buy that, no matter what some kangaroo court stated. I have sat in a local court. The judge (if they even have a real judge) passes judgement without hearing any real evidence. To the court the police are always correct.

Not sure if that applies here but I have my doubts to the accuracy. It would be good to hear the other side or see a transcript and see if evidence was presented or denied for presentation to try to deny the eluding police portion.

And what is the definition of eluding the police anyway. If I see a cop on the other side of the highway and feel he might have gotten me on radar I tend to speed up and exit soon after. Never been caught (knock on wood) but if I did would that constitute a felony and warrant seizure? What if I never saw the cops light turn on?

 

[dun4791]

fleeing and evading is subjective. Whos definition? The officers?

Did they catch the guy 3 towns away? No,...not my definition of fleeing and evading.

 

[yogibayer]

Here is Article V from our bill of rights:

Amendment V


No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


I wonder what his compensation was in this case

 

[kcobean]

I wonder what his compensation was in this case

Probably "we'll let you stay out of jail", which is just legalized black-mail.

 

[DodgeViper01]

That will make kids think twice about drugs. Wish I could see one of those growing up. Hard lesson for the owner!!

 

[Tracy]

This is the latest update for those who want to know......interesting stuff!
Hi Mary,
I just met with the state’s attorney, Jim Glasgow, who explained that this man had his Viper seized because he was arrested for a felony charge of fleeing and eluding police. Under state law vehicles may be forfeited for that offense. Glasgow said the driver/owner of the car had a suspended license, which is why he ran from police.

The driver/owner had two trials, one on the car seizure and one on the criminal charge, before two different judges. One judge found him guilty of the fleeing and eluding felony charge, one judge found he used his car to commit the offense.

I don’t remember hearing about this incident or seeing anything about this in local papers at the time (March 2006).

You aren’t bugging me at all! Write me anytime. I hope that information helps. I’m working on a story about the state seizure law and process because I’ve gotten quite a few calls and e-mails from people asking about it.

Janet

Mary,

Please ask Janet to interview our former Will County State's attorney Jeff Tomczak. He was the Viper owners lawyer.

Thanks!

 

[Venomiss]

Thank you for the information Traci! I just dropped Janet a line and will update when she gets any more specifics. Hope you got your PM to get your name reinstated.
Mary

 

[Cop Magnet]

That will make kids think twice about drugs. Wish I could see one of those growing up. Hard lesson for the owner!!

This is part of the problem. How in the hell did you come under the perception that drugs were in any shape, way, or form involved in this case?

The original liberal seizure laws were invoked to offset the huge money involved in the drug trade. When Scarface-types lived in multimillion dollar mansions on the Miami beach, it seemed just rewards for the government to seize the home built with drug money, turn it over for sale, and use the profits to combat crime. Everybody was all for it. But as with all things you give away, you give an inch and they take a mile.

Here, the situation is entirely different. The police seized a car NOT involved in anything as heinous as drug trafficking. They seized it, from what I can tell, on the cop's WORD. The cops have the PERSONAL use of the vehicle, it was not sold somewhere to benefit the greater good. The secondary gain and potential for abuse of this system is outrageous. Painting it in DARE colors is a ruse to link the presence of the vehicle to some kind of drug crime, which is completely untrue.

Sometimes I wonder why people get upset about burning the American flag, but don't seem to give a shiite about crapping on the US Constitution.

 

[Freddog11]

This may be the most unpopular place to say this but...
I am a law enforcement officer, have been for many years.

That said, please don't lump all police officers together or judge them all based on the actions of a few. I'm proud of my job and I've worked hard to get to the position I'm in. I've never had to lie in court for any situation, never had to write a BS ticket or trump up a charge against anyone, there are plenty of real crimes to prosecute. I treat everyone with the same respect that I would expect for myself, my family, or anyone else out there. I do the job not because I think it gives me some sort of power, or ego boost, but because I love the satisfaction that I get out of it. I've read this forum long enough to understand that many of you probably have a legitimate gripe against some officers or some departments, but again, don't put us all in the some category.

This is the part that may surprise you all. I completely agree that the seizure of this vehicle, or any other property in a similar situation is unwarranted and unconstitutional. The vehicle was not aquired as a result of a criminal enterprise or criminal act, therefore should not be subject to seizure. I find it especially insulting that they would "DARE" to paint an American flag on the hood . This guy should be locked up and his license revoked. It does not matter if nobody was harmed, what he did was reckless and I don't think we should wait to punish that kind of behavior until someone gets killed. If some guy sits outside your kids school firing an AK-47 into the playground full of kids but doesn't hit anybody, do you prosecute him or just let him keep shooting until he hits somebody? Yes, it's a stretch, but come on, this guy is just flat out dangerous.

We all need to be careful of what rights we are giving up. The scales are tipping in the wrong direction.

The actions of a law enforcement officer are scrutinized more than almost any other profession, and it should be that way. But, stereotyping all of them together because of the actions of a few serves no purpose and will not bring about the changes that may be needed when it comes to those unprofessional individuals or departments.

 

[jpa99acr]

I don't think most of us here are "lumping" all officers into the same category as the one that seized this Viper. There are many cops out there, like it or not, that abuse their badge and try and intimidate citizens, and obviously we can see the extreme result of that with this car being seized and now becoming the Plainview PDs toy.

I was married May 1st, 2004, and we drove away in my 99 ACR from the church. Not 5 miles away, I was pulled over by a local cop and accused of "staring him down" as I turned down a side street. Of course, this was not the case, heck I was in a tux and my wife was stuffed next to me in her huge dress. Glaring at the fuzz was the last thing on my mind. He YELLED at me for at least 3 minutes, threatened to search the car, etc. He finally let me go as he had nothing to hold me for.

I got his badge #, reported him to his commanding officer, who called me back as we were checking into our hotel that evening. Sadly, he was as much a **** as the cop (can you believe it)? Stating that they don't just pull people over, and I must have given him a reason. BS. I didn't even see him until his lights came on!!

Anyway, sorry for the rant, but maybe you can see why people have a bad view of law enforcement.. just like attorneys, car salesmen, etc... the actions of a few bad apples hurt the rep. for the rest.

 

[Venomiss]

Traci,
Should be a good story for the paper...I still want more details.


Hi Mary,
You’re welcome – thanks for the information about Tomczak. I called him this morning and am waiting for a call back.

I’m working on a story for tomorrow about the state seizure law, and plan to include more details about the Plainfield Viper case.

Janet

 

[Cop Magnet]

No one's lumping all officer's together. There are bad apples in every profession. There are pervert teachers. There are crooked politicians. There are bad cops. There are people who cheat on their taxes. That's life. The bad ones spoil it for everyone else, and make for the stories people remember. I have been pulled over and let go plenty of times. But the actions of a few officers taint my memory of these encounters as a whole. If you don't like the way people view your profession, work to oust those in your system who are giving it a bad name. Sometimes looking the other way because you keep your nose clean is not enough. Sometimes you need to take the higher ground.

 

[yogibayer]

No one's lumping all officer's together. There are bad apples in every profession. There are pervert teachers. There are crooked politicians. There are bad cops. There are people who cheat on their taxes....

Are we sure there are any that aren't crooked?

 

[QUICKV10]

Traci,
Should be a good story for the paper...I still want more details.


Hi Mary,
You’re welcome – thanks for the information about Tomczak. I called him this morning and am waiting for a call back.

I’m working on a story for tomorrow about the state seizure law, and plan to include more details about the Plainfield Viper case.

Janet

Venomiss, What paper will this story be in?

 

[Tracy]

It will be in the Herald news. You can find a link to it on the first page of this thread.

 

[jay01m]

Are we sure this guy didn't have drugs in the car? I work in the LE world as well (federal), and from talking to friends in the same world, 99% of the time when a car gets seized, its due to drugs. This would make sense if it were the case, because it's now a DARE car.

Based on my recent readings on this thread, I'm assuming there were no drugs involved, in which case if the state law allows for seizing of property in this case, and the bill of rights says otherwise, I would think the bill of rights trump the state in this case. This is all shooting from the hip for me, as I have not gotten in depth with this topic.