So for a Gen 3, what is the end cost for the complete kit + the install + all extra needed hardware and tune? Going with the "make it functional" mind set verses the "no compromise".
Bad Asp 06, most of the recent conversations Steve and myself have engaged lately seem to be trying to answer your very question.
The answer is not a simple one either..... Our main objective at this point is to build a system that delivers the power, is easy to install; then to put it on a few of the first customer cars at the pricing point we promised.
I guess the real answer all comes down to volume and materials....
The Viper guys have always been a little more savvy in regards to requiring the finest materials as compared to most other performance enthusiasts which, combined with the relatively lower production numbers, translates into a higher per unit cost = VIPER TAX.
Let's talk about materials for a moment..... There are many, many happy STS customers out there, so what I am about to say is not negative so to speak, I am simply illustrating a point.
If one were to compare the materials used in STS's rear mount turbo kits for all the cars they do, we can see that it looks to be ceramic coated mild steel(I'm assuming this because I have not yet asked but I am calling them today to confirm for sure). On the exhaust side, there are slip fit connections and certain ways things are fabricated that a more custom one off system made by someone who knows the proper way it needs to be done would not do it that way. But the great thing about turbos is that just about no matter how it is done, as long as it's "good enough" it works fine for the average automotive enthusiast. End of story.
So, at the end of the day, it is about being able to make something of the quality level the Viper and/or the Viper owner deserves and being able to make a profit in doing so. Without making a profit, any endeavor results in a short run of X number of systems and the builder/fabricator/installer/creator ultimately losing money in the end. I have personal experience in this area to be sure.
So with that aside, what is the market for this Gen 3 turbo system? Well obviously, it would be the same group of people who would be buying or has already purchased the Paxton Supercharger system and also the guys who wish the Roe Blower could fit under the hood.....
Due to the constraints of the Gen 3 Viper the Roe is not an option. I do not know how many Paxton Superchargers in total have been installed on gen 3 Vipers, does anybody know the answer? I would venture to guess the number is A LOT as in maybe 200-300....
Bad Asp 06, back to your question of "Make it Functional" vs "No Compromise" mind set... I believe that what Steve and myself need to come up with a version of what we initially described to start this thread that would be equal or better in performance to the Paxton in terms of acceleration, price and ease of installation.
Let's say, for instance, that we made a base system that would be close to the cost of the Paxton, is as easy or easier to install and on, say, a 20 or 30 MPH roll up to 100 MPH is faster. Let's say that this setup would also be faster than a 600 RWHP NA Viper as well on the same roll....
So would you agree that, aside from looking at dyno graphs and calculating the area under the curve, this would really be the only thing that a Viper owner would care about at the end of the day?
Are there any other thoughts on this topic?
If we could deliver such a product, would everybody here and everywhere else who owns a Viper that either owns a Paxton or would be seriously considering the purchase of a Paxton for their Viper buy our system assuming of course that we have good customer service and can stand behind out product?
If the answer is yes, then the next step is to determine a realistic projected volume and then have everybody step up and put down deposits so we can order 100 turbos, 50 sets of piping, 50 intercoolers, 1000 t-bolt clamps, etc.....
In the past few days Steve and myself, have come up with some very exciting options that can bring the realization of this project to fruition.
So I would like to ask everybody some questions that would help us determine the way we should go in terms of materials and various attributes of the system that would be upgradeable just like the Roe blowers back in the day that were a relatively lower price to get into for 550 RWHP and then you could upgrade X,Y,Z and end up with 650-700 RWHP.
I always loved the idea of upgradeability and I am sure everybody on here does as well!
I think everybody here would agree that aside from good customer service, their product performing reasonably well in a relaible fashion, the entry level cost of the Paxton Supercharger is the driving force to the volume they have been able to achieve....
If we could sell as many of our setups per year as the Paxton has thus far, it would definitely be a slam dunk from the business standpoint assuming we could ascertain the level of materials and system attributes that we could provide at a competitive price.....
Ok, so here we go: I am going to ask everybody here to sit on their Freudian couch and I am going to list some different materials and attributes of turbo system design and I want everybody to say the first thing that comes into your mind:
Mild Steel vs Stainless Steel Piping
Forged, Thick wall(.120") vs Madrerell Bent (.065")
V-Band vs Slip Fit
Single vs Twin Turbo
Intercooled vs Non-Intercooled (Maybe some of the Roe blower guys who have also driven their intercooled Paxton cars can chime in about their experiences here.)
If we can get some of these things ironed out, some of these results, combined with the Oil-Less turbocharger technology and my diverter pipe that will spool the turbos like lightning, we have the potential to make something that has never before been offered to the general consumer in terms of low end torque and upper RPM power with the same turbocharger... The Diverter pipe setup with a relatively larger back housing will also equate to lower back pressure that is safer for the stock Gen 3 motors to boot!
So what does everybody think?
Opinions?
Suggestions?
Here is your chance, let us know....
Although not rocket science experience does matter, I'll keep any further opinions to myself but there is definitely a lot of misinformation from this whole thread (not directed at you Tony). Lots of good information too, feel sorry for anyone who does not know what to ask and what to expect
Talk about viper tax!!!
Nick 