New Video with Ralph saying they tested the TA edition with sport cups

[viper04]

Great round table, thanks for posting.. The more I see Ralph commitment to the SRT program the more I'm impress by him. He really is a ture car guy.

 

[bluestreak]

So it appears that the T/A may out track the Gen IV ACR. Fantastic Video for the doubters.

Bruce

I may just be hard headed, but I do not think the TA is legitimately faster than the Gen IV ACR.

This is just my opinion, but I think the ACR will still have faster times at most tracks. The 10' ACR did not have the luxury of a private test day with setup sessions and Randy Pobst.

I would bet money under the same circumstances the Gen IV ACR would run 1:32 tops.

 

[ACRucrazy]

I may just be hard headed...I would bet money under the same circumstances the Gen IV ACR would run 1:32 tops.

Which would be slower than the Gen V on the same MPSC tires according to all of the information presented over the last several weeks.

 

[madninjaskillz]

The Gen V is faster than the Gen IV ACR and should be. Don't forget this was just another iteration of a car and chassis that will continually be tuned and tweaked. Not to mention tires will keep getting faster. I look for a sub 1:30 LS time with the new ACR.

 

[Capt Van]

Great interview. I saw Ralph talk at VOI 12 and thought he was a great car guy.

 

[PDCjonny]

The Gen V is faster than the Gen IV ACR and should be. Don't forget this was just another iteration of a car and chassis that will continually be tuned and tweaked. Not to mention tires will keep getting faster. I look for a sub 1:30 LS time with the new ACR.

We'll see.
The 2010 ACR has set track times all over the US and elsewhere so they are right there for the taking.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Loved that interview. Pretty obvious Ralph is a car guy through and through. As I suspected they softened up the GTS suspension quite a bit from the pre-production hence it was able to beat a Merc SLS in not only performance but in GT'ness too in a recent test.

I can see a TA on equal rubber as the ZR1 doing 1:32 easy. Id agree with those who say all Viper models with the comparable tires will be faster than the ZR1. What that means for the upcoming ACR just gives me goose pimples thinking about it. Hope Im not setting myself up for disappointment but I think the upcoming ACR just might be the top track dog under the 1 million ceiling imho. Too soon for that kind of speculation but you cant help thinking in the superlative for the ACR when you consider what the 3 lower models can do to Laguna.

 

[mnc2886]

If SRT is reading this, can we atleast get teaser shots of the ACR like when they teased the release of the Gen V itself? Seems a little dramatic, but the anticipation for the ACR has been there before they even released the car at all. In some ways, the ACR is a bigger deal than any of the models. I can't wait to see it. I know SRT has something done on it, just don't know what.

 

[SilveRT8]

If SRT is reading this, can we atleast get teaser shots of the ACR like when they teased the release of the Gen V itself? Seems a little dramatic, but the anticipation for the ACR has been there before they even released the car at all. In some ways, the ACR is a bigger deal than any of the models. I can't wait to see it. I know SRT has something done on it, just don't know what.

Yeah ! Dont we all love a good tease!

 

[ViperSmith]

If SRT is reading this, can we atleast get teaser shots of the ACR like when they teased the release of the Gen V itself? Seems a little dramatic, but the anticipation for the ACR has been there before they even released the car at all. In some ways, the ACR is a bigger deal than any of the models. I can't wait to see it. I know SRT has something done on it, just don't know what.

IMO it is hiding in plain sight http://www.drivesrt.com/racing/viper-gts-r/

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[SnakeBitten]

^^^That puts a koolaid smile on my face...I would love an ACR in this exact color scheme below. I mean...Just look at it...

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[VENOM V]

IMO it is hiding in plain sight http://www.drivesrt.com/racing/viper-gts-r/

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Ok that is just downright bad ass!!!

 

[bluestreak]

We'll see.
The 2010 ACR has set track times all over the US and elsewhere so they are right there for the taking.

Agree, we will certainly see...

Which would be slower than the Gen V on the same MPSC tires according to all of the information presented over the last several weeks.

Based on what? They should both run 1:32ish on MPSC. TA ran 1:30.87 on full non-DOT Pirelli slicks, which are fast slicks. It's not going to be close to that on MPSC.

Besides, all of the information also states that the MPSC have gotten faster since they were OE equipment on the ACR. Add that as benefit to the ACR as well.

On top of that, Laguna is not an aero dependent track. When they get to some, the Gen IV will shine.

Like I said, the TA will be tested 3rd party by more than a few publications on the same tracks. We will see for sure one way or another.

 

[ACRucrazy]

What does the 2010 ACR have an advantage over the 2013?

 

[bluestreak]

Way more DF and adjustable suspension to start. Two of the biggest factors in speed around a track.

 

[chorps]

MPSCs.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Something to consider about the upcoming ACR vs the upcoming hyper cars like the P1 and F150. According to Mclaren the P1 will produce the most downforce of any street legal car at 1320lbs of downforce. The old ACR was at 1200lbs downforce. However, the upcoming ACR is said by Ralph to produce 1500 lbs downforce. They are gonna need a lot more power to push against that amount of drag to keep the car reasonably fast on the straights against this heady competition.

The old ACR's 600hp + 1200lbs downforce = 185mph top speed and handling which is going to be well below the overall envelope of the P1with its light weight and over 800hp.

Lets say the upcoming ACR is only going to get the same 640hp but is saddled with 1500lbs downforce at 3300lbs curb weight. Absolutely no contest vs any of the two main upcoming hyper cars.

My opinion is that the only way the next ACR will be able to compete with the P1 or F150 (not necessarily win) would be to have at least 750hp and come in around 3000lbs or under curb weight along with that 1500lb downforce.

 

[TrackAire]

Something to consider about the upcoming ACR vs the upcoming hyper cars like the P1 and F150. According to Mclaren the P1 will produce the most downforce of any street legal car at 1320lbs of downforce. The old ACR was at 1200lbs downforce. However, the upcoming ACR is said by Ralph to produce 1500 lbs downforce. They are gonna need a lot more power to push against that amount of drag to keep the car reasonably fast on the straights against this heady competition.

The old ACR's 600hp + 1200lbs downforce = 185mph top speed and handling which is going to be well below the overall envelope of the P1with its light weight and over 800hp.

Lets say the upcoming ACR is only going to get the same 640hp but is saddled with 1500lbs downforce at 3300lbs curb weight. Absolutely no contest vs any of the two main upcoming hyper cars.

My opinion is that the only way the next ACR will be able to compete with the P1 or F150 (not necessarily win) would be to have at least 750hp and come in around 3000lbs or under curb weight along with that 1500lb downforce.

One of the problems the first ACR had at the Ring was head winds and not the right gearing. The driver had to stay in 4th gear for a lot longer than he should have since shifting into 5th would bog the car down big time. It still set the record, but there was a lot more left.

The Gen 5 has what I feel is superior gearing to the Gen 4. With the Gen 5's better rear end ratio and closer trans ratios, I don't think the added aero will be as big of a deal as it was on the Gen 4. I would think that 90% of the road race tracks in the USA don't see 160 mph and if they do, it is for a very short burst. Although more hp would be great, we only have a rear wheel drive car. More aero, better brakes, better brake cooling, better trans and diff cooling and lighter weight will make the car way faster than another 100 hp. At this level of power (over 600 hp), you really get diminishing returns with more horsepower versus the other upgrades listed.

Of course, the biggest denominator will be what tires the new ACR ends up with.

Cheers,
George (aka TA)

 

[Policy Limits]

A CEO with automotive knowledge experience and passion. How rare is that? Pays attention to social media, the competition, journalist reviews and racer reviews, and responds to them. He truly is a major asset to SRT.

 

[SnakeBitten]

One of the problems the first ACR had at the Ring was head winds and not the right gearing. The driver had to stay in 4th gear for a lot longer than he should have since shifting into 5th would bog the car down big time. It still set the record, but there was a lot more left.

The Gen 5 has what I feel is superior gearing to the Gen 4. With the Gen 5's better rear end ratio and closer trans ratios, I don't think the added aero will be as big of a deal as it was on the Gen 4. I would think that 90% of the road race tracks in the USA don't see 160 mph and if they do, it is for a very short burst. Although more hp would be great, we only have a rear wheel drive car. More aero, better brakes, better brake cooling, better trans and diff cooling and lighter weight will make the car way faster than another 100 hp. At this level of power (over 600 hp), you really get diminishing returns with more horsepower versus the other upgrades listed.

Of course, the biggest denominator will be what tires the new ACR ends up with.

Cheers,
George (aka TA)

I see. But the upcoming ACR is getting much more aero, brakes, suspension, less weight etc so why not more power? Wont those improvements tame the extra 100hp especially on a track like the Nurburgring? It would be something if they introduced a DCT box with the ACR model. Goodness.

On another note Im hearing now that the P1 will be around 3100lbs dry along with 900+hp and that 1320lbs downforce.

 

[TrackAire]

I see. But the upcoming ACR is getting much more aero, brakes, suspension, less weight etc so why not more power? Wont those improvements tame the extra 100hp especially on a track like the Nurburgring? It would be something if they introduced a DCT box with the ACR model. Goodness.

On another note Im hearing now that the P1 will be around 3100lbs dry along with 900+hp and that 1320lbs downforce.

Good question, but who knows when and exactly what the ACR will have (assuming there will be an ACR). Until I see the final specs on a Gen 5 ACR, who knows what they will be able to do and come up with. The key is the engine. I'm guessing to keep the car NA and hit 740 hp would cost a small fortune. But, the cost of aero, suspension and brake upgrades would cost a lot less. Making the car lighter?...again that can get super expensive depending on how they go about doing it.

If you're getting wheel spin now with 640 hp coming out of corners if you smash the throttle (aero is not going to be doing much downforce at speeds under 80 mph), more might not be cost effective. What would help dramatically is a major weight reduction.....better acceleration, lateral grip and braking,...no amount of hp in a rwd car is going to over come that. If the car had 400 hp to start, then yes, you'd see a dramatic time decrease on the track buy adding another 100 or more hp. But when you already start at 640 hp, you just get diminishing returns for the money spent if you don't spend it on all the other things you've listed about. If money was no object, then everything could be done....but this isn't going to happen.

I can't wait to see the new Ferrari F12 on Laguna Seca.....that will really tell us a lot of how good the Viper really is against the world.

Cheers,
George (aka TA)

 

[SnakeBitten]

I got ya.

Yes I'm looking forward to the F12 run at LS too. At the Fiorano test track the F12 is 1.9 seconds faster then the Enzo and 1 sec faster than the Italia. Its wearing MPSS tires. Dont know if they are better than the P Zeros the GTS comes with standard or how they stack up to the optional Corsas. I guess we will soon see...

 

[VENOM V]

I got ya.

Yes I'm looking forward to the F12 run at LS too. At the Fiorano test track the F12 is 1.9 seconds faster then the Enzo and 1 sec faster than the Italia. Its wearing MPSS tires. Dont know if they are better than the P Zeros the GTS comes with standard or how they stack up to the optional Corsas. I guess we will soon see...

Tire Rack tested the MPSS's to the standard P Zeros, and the P Zeros were not as good. So unless the P Zeros that the Vipers wear are improved over those in the test, I bet the MPSS's would be the better tire.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Tire Rack tested the MPSS's to the standard P Zeros, and the P Zeros were not as good. So unless the P Zeros that the Vipers wear are improved over those in the test, I bet the MPSS's would be the better tire.

Ahh...Thats too bad. It seems like Michelin makes a better tire than Perelli across the board. When I get the time Ill check up on Tire Rack and see the rating between the two mfg just out of curiosity. At the end of the day its run what you brung.

 

[bluestreak]

One of the problems the first ACR had at the Ring was head winds and not the right gearing. The driver had to stay in 4th gear for a lot longer than he should have since shifting into 5th would bog the car down big time. It still set the record, but there was a lot more left.

The Gen 5 has what I feel is superior gearing to the Gen 4. With the Gen 5's better rear end ratio and closer trans ratios, I don't think the added aero will be as big of a deal as it was on the Gen 4. I would think that 90% of the road race tracks in the USA don't see 160 mph and if they do, it is for a very short burst. Although more hp would be great, we only have a rear wheel drive car. More aero, better brakes, better brake cooling, better trans and diff cooling and lighter weight will make the car way faster than another 100 hp. At this level of power (over 600 hp), you really get diminishing returns with more horsepower versus the other upgrades listed.

Of course, the biggest denominator will be what tires the new ACR ends up with.

Cheers,
George (aka TA)

This is a good point, because even at 160, DF does you no good until you start braking as that 160 is not likely to be turning unless you are at Road Atlanta in Turn 9, or VIR entering the Roller Coaster etc. and even then, you don't need that much DF for those turns.

To your point though, the times you want to run max DF (wing angle etc.) are on the slow tracks, not the fast ones as you lose too much on the straights to make up for it. Maybe a track like watkins glen would benefit, but I know tracks like Sebring, Road Atlanta, Road America, the cost of running max DF is big on the straights. That being said, more hp helps on the straight, but not in slow corners. Much harder to put the power down. That is why tuning the aero and suspension is such an art, finding the right balance of top speed vs DF and high speed vs low speed grip using your suspension and aero adjustments wisely and in conjunction with one another.

The P1 will be fast enough though for mediocre corner speed and super fast drag racing on the straights. So a good driver could carry lots of entry speed and slowly apply throttle on exit and win the race to the next turn. This will work at a lot of the US HP tracks. Will be hard to beat. But who cares, I doubt SRT will bat an eyelid if the P1 is faster. Should not even be discussed for the fanatical bench racers to complain if the P1 ends up faster. With all that said, the ACR has beaten many cars that on paper it should not (pagani comes to mind), and don't forget the Gumpert which on paper (2400 lbs, sequential) should have mauled the Gen IV but barely beat it (on the same tires so apples to apples). We know SRT is bringing heat. The P1 will have to earn it's keep. No handouts.

 

[Makara]

Active aero on the super-hyper cars brings the best of both worlds with DF when you need it and slick areo when you don't. That is hard to beat with a fixed wing.

 

[bluestreak]

Yeah, but they don't provide as much DF as the fixed wings. Something like Aero-motions aftermarket is a great concept though.

 

[madninjaskillz]

I'm inclined to agree with Bluestreak with the fixed wing vs. built in DF etc. I believe the physics are in "our" favor. I'm also of the opinion that the gap between the ACR and new P1 or LaFerret won't be that big, if at all. Aside: that ACR rendering is the way they should make it =)

 

[SnakeBitten]

Should not even be discussed for the fanatical bench racers to complain if the P1 ends up faster. With all that said, the ACR has beaten many cars that on paper it should not (pagani comes to mind), and don't forget the Gumpert which on paper (2400 lbs, sequential) should have mauled the Gen IV but barely beat it (on the same tires so apples to apples). We know SRT is bringing heat. The P1 will have to earn it's keep. No handouts.

Not sure if that initial sentence is aimed at me since Im the one discussing the P1 in light of the upcoming ACR. If it is then thats your opinion but you would be wrong about me. Anyway I agree with your following premise hence my initially discussing the P1 and ACR. I've seen what the comparatively low tech Viper approach to speed has done to the majority of "technically superior on paper" supercars such as the Enzo, GTR, ZR1, LFA etc. So this is why I think its relevant to consider the possibility of the upcoming ACR being able to hang with the upcoming hypercars. We will see.

If the ACR doesn't beat the P1 or the F150 Ferrari it wont diminish what the ACR can do especially considering the cost and engineering gap to the other cars. No one in their right mind would draw the conclusion that its a failure if it doesn't beat a million dollar hyper car. Would I love to see the ACR whoop everthing? Yes but that hardly makes one a fanatic benchracer lol. I think maybe you are confusing what happened with the ZR1 loss and think the venom SRT rightly received for the lackluster showing will somehow be transferred to the ACR if it loses to a hyper car? Big difference between expecting to beat your main rival and beating a car far out of your category. One is definitely expected whereas the other would be a nice accomplishment but hardly necessary.

 

[bluestreak]

Relax bro, I had no one particular in mind. Was not directed at you.