Next power adder?

BW96snake

Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2010
Posts
75
Reaction score
1
96 GTS, aggressive street driving, 5k miles/year, 1-2/year on track for fun, looking for more power

I have the suspension down.. a 3.34 diff and smaller goodies like aftermarket tranny brace, motor mounts, short shifter, Brembo brakes, BBS rims, exhaust, tubes, tune, etc..

What's next for more power?
- Roe, 2.4 or 2.8
- A centrifugal blower
- Or worked heads with cam from Greg Good?

I think the price would be fairly close (yes/no?), what are the pros and cons for each?

Don't really have a hp goal, just want more hp and tq...


:drive:
 

speedracervr4

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Posts
1,348
Reaction score
0
Location
Lancaster, PA
You should have a HP goal in mind when making your decisions.

I love my Roe- Easy to install, not overly complicated, but they're hard to come by. You're limited to approx 630-700rhp with the 10lb pulley and ****. Approx 6-8k in cost.

Paxton blowers- little more complicated, but you'll be able to make more peak power out of them. I've seen them produce 800rhp with an upgraded fuel system and some other goodies. I personally like the instant power of a twin screw compared to a centrifugal blower. Approx 7-9k in cost.

Heads/cam- Easiest way to for simplicity, and you're probably looking at 525rhp-600rhp. Approx 4k or so in cost.

The key to all the above it a good SAFE tune, without that you're wasting your money and could damage your motor.

I would do the heads a cam and upgrade to a blower if more power is needed.
 

DrumrBoy

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Posts
2,612
Reaction score
0
Location
GA
The forced induction definitely gives you more potential but there are folks with both blower choices that are unhappy with their longevity. Most are happy, some are not. Heads/cam is less potent but very solid and straightforward. Either way, get a proper safe tune as mentioned above and you'll be happy with whatever you choose.
 
OP
OP
B

BW96snake

Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2010
Posts
75
Reaction score
1
Good advice indeed! I think ported/polished head and cam (with a set of headers to complete my exhaust) plus a great tune, could get me close to 600rwhp and if I ever wanted to, I could slap a Paxton or Roe on top of that..

Thanks for solid advice!
 
OP
OP
B

BW96snake

Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2010
Posts
75
Reaction score
1
Hello again, decided to reply to this thread of mine since it's about adding power, I mentioned that I would go the head and cam route, and... I am now close to getting it all wrapped up and onto the dyno. I'll post a summary soon with the details that I considered when doing the head-work.. and why I stayed with the 708 cam and stock headers..

And, my nightmare of a process to get the heads completed but also my pleasure to work with other vendors who should get tons of credit for their professionalism, knowledge, integrity, attention to detail, helpful.. the list is long and just as some vendors should get no work, others should get more!

Lots of lessons-learned that I'll share to make a blue-print of questions to consider and ask prior to ripping off the heads.

So, more to come, cheers!
 

BlackOutBoxing

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Posts
189
Reaction score
0
I got 620 out of greg good heads and a crazy cam plus other things. ported manifold, bigger throttle bodies full exhaust etc.
 
OP
OP
B

BW96snake

Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2010
Posts
75
Reaction score
1
Is that 620 crank or rwhp?

Yeah, can't wait to get my car back on the road. As soon as I have dyno #s, I'll share for comparison! I don't think I will get any monster numbers due to the many issues with the heads (e.g., I didn't get the flow promised and will share other issues later..)

I sent my heads to RSI over a year ago!!! and the heads have gone back to them to fix issues once. That still didn't get them corrected.
Now, I'm stuck waiting again because RSI won't pay the 2nd vendor that they asked to help fix all issues with the heads.
The vendor had to re-work pretty much everything, it was all crap, (which I'm sure will be blamed on an RSI vendor who they no longer use.. to give future customers the idea that it's all taken care of..). It was 4 months ago I dropped the car of for installation, which is how I learned that the heads had to be completely redone.
As so many other RSI customers, I am now forced to engage a lawyer to get RSI to pay the vendor, so the heads will be released and available for installation.

Anyway, the continued issues with RSI operations and its new Hamblin-management principals have been documented with multiple threads all over many forums so this thread is not about sharing the details of that. I think any informed customers see through all BS and know where to bring their business by now.

I just want to share what I have learned, the questions anyone should ask prior, the specs to consider, what else to complete while in there, etc etc..
And, if I ever get my car done and on the dyno, share the #s and in-the-seat experience.
Cheers!
 

Free2go

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Posts
3,290
Reaction score
6
I could have sworn I read about a Wharton educated man by the name of Gary who was supposed to have spent a few days over at RSI to straighten the place up. There was some sort of barbecue thrown by a couple of Alley based nut swingers and a big ass rainbow appeared over the RSI "boiler room". Things were supposed to get better.
 
OP
OP
B

BW96snake

Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2010
Posts
75
Reaction score
1
You are correct.

Gary spent 2 days there I believe, then he posted an update of Viper Alley that he was no longer affiliated with RSI.
He didn't bash them or anything, just stated after only 2 days that he was there, worked with RSI, suggested needed changes, but he was no longer doing that. So, instead of me talking for him or even sharing my opinion on underlying causes, here's Gary's thread so you can read for yourself.

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/anything-goes/155586-going-texas-assist-will.html

Also, here's another similar read, there are lots more:
http://www.viperalley.com/forum/anything-goes/157698-rsi-twin-turbo.html

So I'm just one of many suckers.. It's been over a year since I first sent off my heads for a quoted 6-week turn-around. Now, the vendor that fixed the heads for RSI, isn't getting paid by Will/RSI so they are stuck there, all completed. Just a BS way of conducting business!
 

Free2go

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Posts
3,290
Reaction score
6
Here's VCA policy:

"For the protection of our Viperclub.org users, any advertiser or non-advertiser/vendor with repeated-documented evidence of inappropriate business ethics, can be removed from Viperclub.org, by "blanking out", or removing entirely, the use of the company's name (including any other firm name in which the offending business owner is a principal, partner or licensee) from any and all postings."
 

Free2go

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Posts
3,290
Reaction score
6
Yet they are allowed to stick around and prey on fledglings. What really ***** is you have people who start out excited and wind up demoralized.
 
Last edited:

Will at RSI

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Posts
172
Reaction score
0
Andreas,

I answered you on your Viper Alley thread. And before you are spreading more BS around, Gary did come work with us. He came for the week he was supposed to be with us and retracted to stop clients from contacting him as that was never the purpose. I have responded to your emails, text messages, and calls. I have taken full blame for the issues with your heads although I am not trying to have our first head porter pay for anything as we feel this was simply a difference of opinion. I was very up front with you, and if you had read my email from the end of the week, this has been handled. We are very sorry for the delays that it caused.
 

Free2go

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Posts
3,290
Reaction score
6
Will, what makes me so damn upset at you is your obviously an intelligent individual that has the capacity to do good...but you choose not to. You had a good thing and you've pissed it away. Were it not for all the BS (my personal experience and the horror stories I've read) my car would have been in your shop a couple of times since I bought it. Being in business myself, if I was in your situation I would take out a loan from the bank or borrow money from family or friends to make things right. Anything. I have researched and read EVERY post and thread here, in the Alley, and on the web and there is a pattern of behavior that is disturbing. The longer I have my car, the more passionate I become about it and like to tinker with it. I'm going to buy another one that I can track and abuse....and where can I take anything around here? Your 30 minutes away and have EVERYTHING I would need to keep me happily in a Marginal Propensity to Consume....except integrity. You've made me scared to take my car to ANYONE, and that's not fair to the vendors out there that are deserving of my trust.
 

Paul Hawker

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2000
Posts
4,660
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego, Calif, USA
Back to the Original Posters question.

Maybe consider Nitrous Oxide Injection. Many Gen I & II's used these systems with pretty good results (if you don't go overboard) to provide lots of torque and HP.

While filling the tanks can be a hassle, it runs cool and inexpensive.

Maybe a good option in your case.
 

Free2go

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Posts
3,290
Reaction score
6
I'll probably just go W/M inj. It's cheap, good support from Roe, and EllowViper has messed around with it quite a bit and is also a good resource. I don't know enough about intercoolers to be able to build a "one off" unit for my car. But if Roe built one I'd be planning my next vacation for Jacksonville....
 
OP
OP
B

BW96snake

Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2010
Posts
75
Reaction score
1
Will,

I'm glad you're considering the details around the transaction between me and RSI BS.. I totally agree!

Lie 1: You have NOT responded to my emails, txt messages and calls. The vendor you owe and I are still waiting for a response and that immediate payment

Lie 2: You have NOT take responsibility or blame for what happen with my heads. Instead, you are, as everyone expected, suggesting that the issues with the heads were not issues but personal preferences that you were willing to accommodate and pay for. Understand this: The heads would not have work as they came from RSI! Wrong valves, wrong seats, wrong springs, leaking valves from wrong seats and incorrect grind work, wrong compression (even after 2 tries).
How is that a difference in opinion??

And, ask me this: Why would you send ANOTHER pair of heads to this head guy to go over? And, do you think people believe that you would pay for all these changes because I suddenly changed my opinion on what I wanted?

Lie 3: This has NOT been handled. There are no emails from you. The vendor called me again today; he has not heard from you and he has not received payment for the work you had him do..

Here's the truth and what you should try conveying:
"I quoted 6 weeks to get quality heads to customer. It took 9 months due to my operational issues that I have been working on improving. The heads were of terrible quality which made me stop using my head porter and instead used another vendor to re-work the heads and get them to the quality that the customer paid for. RSI has cash-flow issues so I have not been able to pay this vendor the $1,200 owed. I now have promised immediate payment and will make sure it happens this time"

Oh, and why not a sincere apology to me, the customer, who has dealt with this BS for over a year and throughout been EXTREMELY understanding, supporting and accommodating. Only to be used and forced to contact a lawyer to get you to pay your bills!

Nah, post what you just did, take no blame, and delay payment to your vendors while sending them more work..
 
Last edited:

DrumrBoy

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Posts
2,612
Reaction score
0
Location
GA
Just a tag on to the original question.
If "track" Is drag, no problems with any of the choices you're considering.
If "track" is road course you may find that the blowers you're investigating get hot and cause you big loss from peak HP especially in the summer and after 20-30 minutes of running hard.

If you do road courses in the spring and fall, you'd probably be fine with 15 minutes sessions. NA avoids all those issues.
 

steve e

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 23, 1995
Posts
991
Reaction score
58
After everything I have read about in these forums, the only power adders I would do is the ones you can do yourself, it seems you can not trust anyone, please tell me I am wrong.:dunno:
 
OP
OP
B

BW96snake

Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2010
Posts
75
Reaction score
1
Drumboy: Great insight, it would be track.. NA is where I will be for a while. Something that I have learned too is that CA smog inspection is fairly harsh.. some don't even get header past the visual..

Steve e: You are wrong! :) You just have to do your research and go to the right place for the right thing. RSI is obviously not my next stop for anything, even if they would give it away for free! But, there are vendors that I feel like "tipping" because they do such a super job, go out of their way to deliver, show repeated proof of integrity (like: We ended up spending less time than I thought on this piece so I'll take it off your invoice")
For suspension, you'd be a fool if you didn't go with Erik Messley/EMI, regardless where you live. Dan Cragin/SPT is trusted by many and so far with my build (he's installing my heads plus tons of other goodies) have been top-notch and a very pleasant experience! Because of how they have conducted themselves and their reputation, I would not let anyone else touch my car. I'm sure there are others but those are the places for suspension and Engine if you want the best and someone you can trust.
 

steve e

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 23, 1995
Posts
991
Reaction score
58
BW96snake, thanks, I have heard of Dan Cragin were is he from. I have dealt with Bob Woodhouse back in the day, He was great, they did great work and honest, but I am in NJ it was always an extra grand or so to have the car shipped in an enclosed trailer. But I guess its worth it.
 
OP
OP
B

BW96snake

Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2010
Posts
75
Reaction score
1
In my opinion (but that is after a year-long negative experience), it is definitely worth it.
Let's put it this way, if I lived in NJ, knowing what I know now, I would pay the extra grand to have Erik and/or Dan work on my car. Or another way: I would not send my car to NJ even if I saved a grand...

Which makes me think of it; consider combining work.. Call and talk to Erik about all the suspension improvements that can be done, line it up, do the same with Dan, and while you're at it, with Unitrax in Orange county for your diff-upgrades. Then send your car and know it will come back on-time and per your expectations.
 

Paul Hawker

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2000
Posts
4,660
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego, Calif, USA
Every time I go into the shops you mentioned I see cars from all over the world. People that are looking for excellent service, at fair (but not cheap) prices search out these people with impeccable reputations to take care of their treasured cars. The trucks are constantly pulling up and pulling out, taking the owners cars back home after getting excellent care.

I spoke to Todd at A&C. He said he gets much of his work from out of state also. Woodhouse in Nebraska not only ships new cars all around the world but many people are willing to pay the extra shipping costs to have them work on their cars due to an excellent reputation.

On the East Coast, you have Tator's Garage with a long time, well earned reputation.

The Viper service community is really pretty small, but within that Community there are those that rise above...search them out.
 
OP
OP
B

BW96snake

Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2010
Posts
75
Reaction score
1
Paul, Can you get away with this install during smog/visual inspection or do would you have to remove every two years?
I mean, this would of course only be used on a sanctioned race track!!

Edit: This is in response to your post about NO
 
Last edited:

steve e

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 23, 1995
Posts
991
Reaction score
58
Free2go, you crack me up, to funny:rolaugh:How do you find that stuff:D
 

Free2go

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Posts
3,290
Reaction score
6
That movie was hilarious. Every time I think of a sales manager at a car dealership I think of Reggie...
 
OP
OP
B

BW96snake

Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2010
Posts
75
Reaction score
1
Thanks, tempting but I would never pass smog/visual inspection here in CA.
Something I didn't really think about when I first asked for suggestions...
 
Top