Ouch! Another one bites the dust.

lankhoss

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Possible NWS for some of the advertisements and comments under the video.

This is not good!!

Moderator Edit. link removed due not only to NWS elements but inappropriate advertisments for the site rules.
The link to the video is already been posted many times here and not from a nws site.
 

V10SpeedLuvr

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At least this one has some hot girls in the NWS ads :D This video will soon hit the "Viper off a cliff" video status for most reposts.

Ahhhh, what the heck...for those of you who haven't seen this video before :lmao:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6UKYLbYeIw[/media]

On a different note, how's life Brad? Long time no see/talk
 

WILDASP

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The idiocy level out there just keeps on rising! I hate to say it, but it's beginning to give the car we love a bad name; and the problem is not the car, it's the drivers! Then, some people wonder why we tried to create a safety thread. Well, this is why; a combination of lack of knowledge, coupled with the idea that driving a Viper is some kind of exercise in bravado or machismo, leads to a crash, sooner rather than later. Somehow, the idea that driving a 500 or 600 hp car on the street like a maniac is just the way to assuage whatever sense of personal inadequacy a man (or woman) may have persists. I hate to say it, but I've seen stuff posted on this forum that tends to perpetuate that dangerous little myth. Now granted, anyone who is stupid or reckless enough can crash any car; but the Viper is conspicuous. Crash a Civic, and no ones really much notices; crash a Viper, and it's all over the internet in 24 hours. The "beast too tough to tame" image is confirmed yet again, which is fine with some.....but don't think the regulators, the insurers, and the rest of the motoring public don't notice. It starts to reflect on the car (and, by extension, on us) and what it says, is NOT good.

In the example Leslie referred to, we have a driver make an aggressive lane change in heavy traffic, steer where he cannot see, and voila!-yet another wrecked Snake, due to (one more time) DRIVER ATTITUDE! Then, I come in here yesterday, and what do I see? Another thread with (thinly) veiled references to street racing! Well, it's not the first time, but that's a heckuva fine example for the newbies (sarcasm intended)! It's not a majority, buy any means, but it only takes one or two. Made me think of the line from the old Pogo comic strip: "We have met the enemy, and he is us!" Bring up the subject of safety, and right away, concerns are raised about legal issues. That is a legitimate concern, but I have not given up on this yet; there has to be disclaimer language that would let us say a lot more than "Track it!" or "Go to driving school!". Those are not bad ideas at all; it's just that they don't, by themselves, address the root causes of the problem.

Then, we have some here still posting comments to the effect that a Viper is is a real "He-Man's car". Let some disputes get started and it's even used as a taunt, as in this little gem from another contentious thread: "Every Viper with an automatic transmission, should come with a free pair of women's underwear!" Yep, that's the spirit, alright! A fine way to encourage exactly the wrong attitude (as if we needed one)! The irony of this is, that some of the ladies here are better drivers than a lot of the guys; I know of several who can more than hold their own on a road course, and/or the drag strip. So, those comments are off-base, stupid, and not particularly helpful in promoting a safe attitude, but some of us just have to post them anyway. Sorry; it's not funny anymore. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but dammit, driving a Viper is NOT a you-know-what measuring contest! MOST of us know that, and NONE of us should be encouraging anyone to think otherwise!

Sorry for the rant, but I'm frustrated; frustrated with the statistics (and the very real tragedies behind some of them); frustrated that newbies are not getting (or heeding) the word; frustrated with the "leave 'em to Darwin" attitude among some; frustrated with the on-the-road attitude of a few Viper drivers, and yes, frustrated with some comments I see posted here that I think only aggravate the situation. Maybe, you can't fix stupid; but I look at this stuff, happening with a car that is very safe if properly maintained and driven, and I think there has to be a better way; I'm just not sure what it is.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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I think there has to be a better way

There isn't. Unless you think forcing everyone to drive a Prius is a better way.

It is about freedom. Freedom for a company to build a car they want to build and the freedom of an individual buy the car they want to buy. Do away with that freedom and the next car that will lead the way in the crash statistic will be...a Prius. And then someone will look at the crash stats of the Prius and say, "there has to be a better way."

Get my point? There will always be some car that leads other cars in stats. Always. Maybe the Viper leads in crash stats, maybe it doesn't, I don't know. What I do know is that the Viper is a terrifically engineered and built car and does exactly what the driver tells it to do. There is nothing that needs to be changed on it, nothing...except the nanny crap that has been slowly creeping into it.
 

Warfang

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The idiocy level out there just keeps on rising! I hate to say it, but it's beginning to give the car we love a bad name; and the problem is not the car, it's the drivers! Then, some people wonder why we tried to create a safety thread. Well, this is why; a combination of lack of knowledge, coupled with the idea that driving a Viper is some kind of exercise in bravado or machismo, leads to a crash, sooner rather than later. Somehow, the idea that driving a 500 or 600 hp car on the street like a maniac is just the way to assuage whatever sense of personal inadequacy a man (or woman) may have persists. I hate to say it, but I've seen stuff posted on this forum that tends to perpetuate that dangerous little myth. Now granted, anyone who is stupid or reckless enough can crash any car; but the Viper is conspicuous. Crash a Civic, and no ones really much notices; crash a Viper, and it's all over the internet in 24 hours. The "beast too tough to tame" image is confirmed yet again, which is fine with some.....but don't think the regulators, the insurers, and the rest of the motoring public don't notice. It starts to reflect on the car (and, by extension, on us) and what it says, is NOT good.

In the example Leslie referred to, we have a driver make an aggressive lane change in heavy traffic, steer where he cannot see, and voila!-yet another wrecked Snake, due to (one more time) DRIVER ATTITUDE! Then, I come in here yesterday, and what do I see? Another thread with (thinly) veiled references to street racing! Well, it's not the first time, but that's a heckuva fine example for the newbies (sarcasm intended)! It's not a majority, buy any means, but it only takes one or two. Made me think of the line from the old Pogo comic strip: "We have met the enemy, and he is us!" Bring up the subject of safety, and right away, concerns are raised about legal issues. That is a legitimate concern, but I have not given up on this yet; there has to be disclaimer language that would let us say a lot more than "Track it!" or "Go to driving school!". Those are not bad ideas at all; it's just that they don't, by themselves, address the root causes of the problem.

Then, we have some here still posting comments to the effect that a Viper is is a real "He-Man's car". Let some disputes get started and it's even used as a taunt, as in this little gem from another contentious thread: "Every Viper with an automatic transmission, should come with a free pair of women's underwear!" Yep, that's the spirit, alright! A fine way to encourage exactly the wrong attitude (as if we needed one)! The irony of this is, that some of the ladies here are better drivers than a lot of the guys; I know of several who can more than hold their own on a road course, and/or the drag strip. So, those comments are off-base, stupid, and not particularly helpful in promoting a safe attitude, but some of us just have to post them anyway. Sorry; it's not funny anymore. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but dammit, driving a Viper is NOT a you-know-what measuring contest! MOST of us know that, and NONE of us should be encouraging anyone to think otherwise!

Sorry for the rant, but I'm frustrated; frustrated with the statistics (and the very real tragedies behind some of them); frustrated that newbies are not getting (or heeding) the word; frustrated with the "leave 'em to Darwin" attitude among some; frustrated with the on-the-road attitude of a few Viper drivers, and yes, frustrated with some comments I see posted here that I think only aggravate the situation. Maybe, you can't fix stupid; but I look at this stuff, happening with a car that is very safe if properly maintained and driven, and I think there has to be a better way; I'm just not sure what it is.
Darwin had it right, but doesn't mean you shouldn't warn anyone before they make a mistake. If they choose to do stupid anyways... it's out of your hands. You can't save people that don't want to be saved. I sleep well at night. You may want to try some Ambien™. :smirk:
 

SkyBob

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Thanks a lot, guys. I was just going to congratulate WILDASP on a well-written message and then Chuck 98 RT/10 and Warfang jump in with their comments. All three are good thoughts and I wish I could talk as well as you guys do.

Bob
 

Warfang

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Thanks a lot, guys. I was just going to congratulate WILDASP on a well-written message and then Chuck 98 RT/10 and Warfang jump in with their comments. All three are good thoughts and I wish I could talk as well as you guys do.

Bob

These are complex issues and usually have more than two sides to them. The great thing about the VCA is that is consists of people from all backgrounds. The Viper itself attracts mostly A-type personalities, so no one here is afraid to speak their minds, right or wrong. Throw in a clown here and there, and you have one heck of a discussion forum.

Bottom line is that no one wants anybody to wreck a Viper, let alone get hurt or killed. Keeping yourself from being the topic of a "wreck" thread is a good place to start. Enjoy your own Viper in moderation and always keep safety first. If we all did that, these discussions would be moot.
 

WILDASP

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There isn't. Unless you think forcing everyone to drive a Prius is a better way.

It is about freedom. Freedom for a company to build a car they want to build and the freedom of an individual buy the car they want to buy. Do away with that freedom and the next car that will lead the way in the crash statistic will be...a Prius. And then someone will look at the crash stats of the Prius and say, "there has to be a better way."

Get my point? There will always be some car that leads other cars in stats. Always. Maybe the Viper leads in crash stats, maybe it doesn't, I don't know. What I do know is that the Viper is a terrifically engineered and built car and does exactly what the driver tells it to do. There is nothing that needs to be changed on it, nothing...except the nanny crap that has been slowly creeping into it.
Chuck,
As for the first point, I don't think "forcing everyone to drive a Prius" is a better way. As I said, the car is NOT the problem. As for electronic nannies, I don't believe that's the solution either; in fact, given what I believe is the real nature of the problem, I honestly think electronic driving aids only encourage those already inclined to going beyond their individual limits to push the envelope even further, then blame the computer for failing to repeal the laws of physics. The real problem here is an image, one that both creates a perception that the Viper itself is unsafe (NOT true!), and all too often, contributes to a driver mindset that really IS unsafe.

I know that "Education is the answer" has become a cliche, but I do think it is PART of the answer, PART of the "better way" I mentioned. It can't hurt, and might help, if every newbie in a Viper had a clear appreciation for what it can do if driven (or maintained) improperly, and why, so that the Viper's high handling limits do not lull them into a false sense of complacency. That's one part of it; the easy part, as a matter of fact. The hard part, and the one that needs the most attention, can be summed up in one little word with big implications: ATTITUDE. The problem we are talking about is not a problem on the track (not for long, anyway!), where safety is taken very seriously, and everyone who sticks around understands that motorsport is an exercise in skill, precision, and judgment, not bravado. Experienced track rats (like you) rarely if ever get into accidents on the street, and the ones that do occur are usually of someone else's making. Not only do the extra car control skills and safety mindset carry over; as you have pointed out yourself, those who experience the thrill of high speed on the track have little incentive to want to try it in the far more dangerous environment of public roads.

Those who do get into incidents on the street rarely have seen any time on the track, or even a driving school. Apart from those who are simply ignorant of the Viper's potential and limits, they fall into two broad categories: (1) Those who get into a Viper (or any other supercar for that matter), for all the wrong reasons, chief of which is the need to nurture a fragile ego. These also often lack the understanding that high-speed driving is is far less about guts than about brains. (2) Those lacking any meaningful degree of self-control, self-discipline, or sense of responsibility, and often any real appreciation of their own driving skills (or deficiencies). The two groups overlap to some extent, but generally, the first type is the one who will show off, especially if tempted; the second is the prototypical street racer.

I like to think that those in the first category are at least potentially educable. They are likely to be influenced by a good (or bad) example (which makes it important that we not say or do anything that encourages the undesirable behavior). As a rule, people like this (no matter how much they pretend otherwise) want and need the approval of others (which is why they need to "prove" something with a Viper in the first place). These are the ones we need to focus our "attitude adjustment" efforts on. I suspect quite a few of them actually have some common sense, at least when their ego is not overriding it. With their misconceptions cleared up, and having gotten a clear (and consistent) message that their behavior on the street is not "cool", not brave, and quite simply neither admired nor appreciated, they will either clean up their act, learn some real skills, and take it to the track, or simply slink off, and look elsewhere for validation of their shaky sense of self-worth. The worst cases actually would be better off in a Prius, as at least then they would not feel any need to prove anything.

Those with any firm roots in the second category are usually quite another matter. The main purpose of their existence is defiance, they believe that rules were made to be broken, and it's next to impossible to convince them otherwise. Thankfully there are few of them. The worst of the lot, if restricted to a Prius, would find a way to race that (on the street, naturally). Those less committed to their particular form of "sport" may reform, eventually (if they live that long); the best that may be hoped for from the rest, is that they lose their license before they kill themselves or someone else. Meanwhile, they are dangerous, in whatever car they drive.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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Wildasp, do we ever reach a point where society has done everything within reason? Do we ever reach a point of diminishing returns when it comes to protecting people from doing stupid things in cars? I think so, but it seems like society is convinced that everyone can be saved if we just do more, which always results in reduced freedoms for those more responsible.

I'm done with it all. We should have stopped after seat belts and crush zones.
 

Warfang

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Wildasp, do we ever reach a point where society has done everything within reason? Do we ever reach a point of diminishing returns when it comes to protecting people from doing stupid things in cars? I think so, but it seems like society is convinced that everyone can be saved if we just do more, which always results in reduced freedoms for those more responsible.

I'm done with it all. We should have stopped after seat belts and crush zones.

I'm all for replacing airbags with 4inch spikes... THAT'LL get people to drive safer. I guarantee it. :D
 

VENOMAHOLIC

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It scares me that somebody that isn't a police officer would follow me and videotape it. After a long enough time of following somebody close enough, road rage could encourage the person being followed by an unknown creep to lose them or the wrong person would pull a gun on them. I firmly believe that enforcement of traffic laws should be left up to the police.

There needs to be road race tracks in every town and city because there are not enough of them and an autocross track in a parking lot will not cut it. Prices should be reasonable for all comers and safety should be enforced. Lots would be learned and many would attend. Having a close place to let loose would get it out of their system so people would be less likely to take white knuckle rides on the public roads. Not many people have the time to drive 2-3hrs to get to a good track and spend the whole day there waiting to take only a few runs.
 

crazyspeed

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So, we can determine with a knee **** opinion that this driver is an irresponsible clown and this is unlikely to happen to us?
That we , unlike this ****, would never change lanes to a lane appearing to be more open, only to discover that the traffic up ahead was at a standstill ..backed up at an exit?
Is the root cause of this event crazy driving? Or excessive braking distance caused by ? old tires? front brakes locking/imbalance?

Is this same senario been played out daily ( fast moving traffic encountering stopped traffic ahead) by other vehicle types incl minivans and SUVs and compacts?
What is really the root cause after careful study?

Why is it so common for people to assume the driver was a clown or showoff or have limited driving skills?
Is there no one here that can say this driver may not be anymore reckless than we...and ...."there but for fortune......"?:dunno:

Hey , I'm just asking..:crazy2:
 

jdeft1

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Agressive driving ruins cars and lives. Having seen this vid several times I can only conclude the driver should have known better!
Have another look! The road is crowded and visibility is limited. He changed lanes to pass on the right and gunned it... The result is now splashed all over the board!
 

WILDASP

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Wildasp, do we ever reach a point where society has done everything within reason? Do we ever reach a point of diminishing returns when it comes to protecting people from doing stupid things in cars? I think so, but it seems like society is convinced that everyone can be saved if we just do more, which always results in reduced freedoms for those more responsible.

I'm done with it all. We should have stopped after seat belts and crush zones.
Chuck,
Society has done all it reasonably can (or should) do, and I'm not suggesting we need more laws, more regulations, more electronic aids, or more restrictions on cars. The manufacturers (read engineers and designers) have done their part. I'll say it again: Dodge has given us a very safe car in the Viper.

Now, having said that, we all know that public roads are the most dangerous driving environment the Viper is usually in, and we know that most Vipers spend most of their time on those roads (and yes, I think that's a shame, and I'd like to hope that more would get taken to the track, where the car can be more fully enjoyed/appreciated). So, given that reality, the question then becomes, how do we get more drivers to understand how to drive a car with the Viper's capabilities more responsibly and safely on the environment they spend most of their time in?.

Warfang said it in an earlier post; like many questions, this one has more than one or two sides. I don't think there is one simple or correct answer here; it's more likely several answers, in combination, all aimed at the same end result. You've mentioned two important components: go to driving school/HPDEs, and track it. Those are valuable and important parts of the solution to the problem. There are other parts as well, and to discuss those, I'd like to start by picking up another part of that post by Warfang in my next post. Right now, though, I want to re-emphasize that what I'm talking about here,is not what society should do, but what WE, as Viper owners/drivers should do.
 
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WILDASP

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Bottom line is that no one wants anybody to wreck a Viper, let alone get hurt or killed. Keeping yourself from being the topic of a "wreck" thread is a good place to start. Enjoy your own Viper in moderation and always keep safety first. If we all did that, these discussions would be moot.
Warfang,
This is what I'm talking about!:2tu:You're right; if we all did that, this discussion would be...well, not totally moot perhaps, but very different. (We'd still have the newbies and prospective newbies to educate, of course, but at least they would be looking at a consistently good example in the first place, and I think that's extremely important.

Let's look at what we know. We know most of those who get into accidents with Vipers are relative newcomers to the car. We know that some of these crashes result from simple ignorance. We also know that still others result from ignoring the appropriate advice after receiving it. What we need to know next, is why that last happens.

I already mentioned the problem of a certain personality type being attracted to the car; insecure (and frankly emotionally immature in many cases), with a need to "prove" something in the car. What impact does what WE say, and how WE say it, and most importantly, what WE do in the car ourselves, have on those individuals? I could be wrong, but I believe it's more than we might think. Let me explain.

The Viper is not a common car, which means that a prospective newcomer to the fold, the guy just beginning to think about getting one, doesn't usually see one on the road often. When he does, it's going to attract his attention, and part of what he sees, is how it is being driven. Assuming he doesn't know any better, he's going to get the impression that what he sees, is how the Viper should be driven. People with the personality type in question are impressionable, and that often holds true, whether they're fifteen or fifty. So, if he sees one of us showing off, doing burnouts, driving really fast/aggressively, and so on, he can easily get the idea that this is what a Viper is for. A potential problem just got started, and one of us, maybe more than one, helped it along.. I may be wrong, but I also get the nagging feeling that one bad example like that just described will do more harm than a half-dozen good examples will correct. Why? Because it is very obvious, and it attracts attention, in and of itself, that's why. Unfortunately, it's often a case of "monkey see, monkey do", and it makes sense to remember that. The bottom line is that the example we set matters, and that, my friends, is something we can control, as individuals. Can we prevent every bad example? No. Can we be sure that we individually set a good one instead? You bet!

Thoughts, anyone?
 
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Bobpantax

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Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, the driver hit standing water after he left the tunnel; aquaplaned; lost control of the car; hit the wall and then was unable to stop in time after he came off the wall. He was on notice of the water issue becauuse earlier in the video you can see water coming down and hitting the car inside the tunnel. At that point he should have slowed down. As to the dark/light transition, I am not sure that same was a significant causitive factor unless the driver did not have sun glasses on. If he was paying attention he should have seen the row of stopped cars ahead in the road before leaving the tunnel.

With the price of used Vipers as low as they have gotten, we are starting to see people who have no business driving a Viper actually being able to purchase one. One of the good things about a pricier vehicle is that except for Trust Fund Babies and the newly and suddenly rich, my experience has been that most Viper owners in the past were successful entrepreneurs who worked very hard for the money to buy their Viper and had/have a healthy respect for the car and its capabilities. Of course, regardless of S.E.S., there will always be a few fools and their cars that will quickly be parted.
 

escapedan

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Powerful thread. Lots of solid points. Disclaimer - I happen to be part of the track day, driving school, autocross, etc camp and likely I am biased because of it.

I've driven high horsepower rear wheel drive cars most of my life but just recently stepped up to an '06 SRT-10 Coupe. I must admit, I underestimated the amount of torque the Viper can deliver....in damn near any gear. It seems most of the guys (and gals) on the forum have owned multiple Vipers and are likely quite accustomed to their power by now.

I have to think most of the street wrecks we hear about are from "newbie" Viper owners that are possibly used to driver aids (traction control, etc) or lower torque vehicles and simply get caught being overconfident in their own driving skill. Amazing what a few days at a driving school, or at minimum, HPDE events or autocrosses, can do....

Maybe seeing and hearing about more of these driver-error wrecks can help reduce the number of them in the future? Watching the numerous videos of wrecked vipers on youtube or other wrecked exotic sites is clearly painful, but allows us to be somewhat of "CSI Viper Edition" detectives and possibly learn what not-to-do. It cant be coincidence that many of the wrecked Vipers sustain the same kind of damage....

Here's to no more wrecked snakes, huh?
 

WILDASP

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Some good points in those last two posts. I think there are a couple we can explore further. Bob raised one good point; with (especially used) Viper prices coming down as they have, we are seeing more and more younger Viper drivers, A number of these do not have as much of a background in other high-performance cars as used to be the norm. I suspect quite a few have never driven a car without some form of electronic traction control, or even a car without ABS. Now, add in the Viper's torque, which, as escapedan noted, usually is a surprise to newbies, even those with a background in high-performance cars, mix in the likelihood of old and/or mismatched tires on a used car, and you can see the overall effect start to pile one factor on top of another. All of this makes education and driver attitude even more important than it already was. You have drivers with relatively little experience sometimes getting into a car with TWICE the power they are used to, without understanding the implications of that. Loss of control resulting from sudden throttle application, already a problem with 450hp and up, becomes even more likely; from what I've seen, I would guess it's the most common cause of Viper accidents among newbies; and, it can happen at normal road speeds, on a straight stretch of road, where a newbie feels perfectly safe in taking liberties with the throttle. This means a sudden spin at best, and if that spin is into a solid object, (or even worse, oncoming traffic), it's potentially lethal.

What all that means for us, I think, is that we need to ask ourselves some hard questions; questions like "Am I setting the right sort of example with my own driving?", "Am I projecting the right sort of image of the Viper with what I say?". We may need to ask ourselves whether some of the macho chest-pounding we do with our rhetoric might encourage some newbies to exceed their limitations in order to "prove" something. We might want to think about how wise it is or isn't, to say things which further the "bad a**" image some people have of the car. I know that sounds like absolute heresy to some, but we really need to think about it. We need to think about all of this, because whether we like it or not, what we do and say, here and elsewhere, has an influence on the newbies. They see it, hear it, and read it, and unfortunately they are likely to pay more attention to what they think our idea of "fun with a Viper" is, than to all the safety lectures. All the careless, negative stuff resonates with the thought process a lot of them already have, and the resulting attitudes are not safe ones. I don't want to be a killjoy, but it's possible we might want to dial some of this talk down a notch or two; or at least ask ourselves if some of what it appears to be encouraging is worth it. We've become role models, often without realizing it, and I'm afraid we are stuck with that, like it or not.

In all honesty, I know we cannot prevent those hellbent on behaving like idiots from doing so; but, that still leaves a considerable number we can (and will) influence, for better or worse. Isn't that worth at least thinking about?
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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We are doing all we can, but you just can't fix stupid. I am not talking about those who get into a typical accident, that can happen to anybody. I'm talking about dumbazzes like in this vid. When we see it we must humiliate them relentlessly. That is all we can do. If they get back in the saddle, track it and learn how to drive, great. If they leave in embarrassment and shame, then that is great too. If they stick around and continue to do stupid stuff...well, that never seems to happen.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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There needs to be road race tracks in every town and city because there are not enough of them and an autocross track in a parking lot will not cut it.

That is more important than people are willing or realize to admit. A big problem however is insurance. Half of entry fees go to insurance. It is nothing less than extortion. We choose to track. We know the risks. It is criminal that so many can be sued so much over track accidents.
 

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We are doing all we can, but you just can't fix stupid. I am not talking about those who get into a typical accident, that can happen to anybody. I'm talking about dumbazzes like in this vid. When we see it we must humiliate them relentlessly. That is all we can do. If they get back in the saddle, track it and learn how to drive, great. If they leave in embarrassment and shame, then that is great too. If they stick around and continue to do stupid stuff...well, that never seems to happen.
I'm not opposed to doing that Chuck, not at all! In some instances I think it's the only way. I recall an incident a couple of years back, on "that other board", where one idiot actually posted pics of his "excursion" off an interstate, at what he said was 160mph! The fool somehow walked away from it, and there he was, grinning, laughing, and throwing shaka to the EMTs, with the burning wreckage of his Viper in the background! As I recall, he actually handed them a camera and asked them to take the pics! You might remember that one; everybody on that forum absolutely lit him up, and darned well should have! One of the most stupid, totally inexcusable things I have ever had the displeasure to see, and all the worse for his attitude about it! I think the beatdown ran him off, which certainly would have been no loss; I never did hear whether he lost his license over it, but he should have! I have exactly ZERO tolerance for, or patience with, anyone who pulls a stunt like that!:mad:
 

RTTTTed

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Viper's needing one of the shortest stopping distances of any car on the planet and many Gen 2s having upgraded brakes - imagine these idiots in a Prius? Or a Honda/Toyota/pickup/Semi/etc. Good thing they had big brakes.

Domestic pick-ups are being equipped with large brakes, but larger diameter tires as well. I understand an average pu needs 165-180' to stop and I'd guess a Honda (the HP version with wide tires) needs the same distance. Stock Gen 3 Viper stops in under 100'

Gen 2 and 3 Vipers are nearly 1 G force lateral (cornering) and when I tested my buddies Grand National it barely made .64Gs. It was considered a good handler back in the early 90s (for a sedan style car).

There's always someone that goes too fast for whatever they're driving and crashing a Viper proves that.

No matter how good a car can be made - someone is dumb enough to wreck it. Sometimes Sh_t happens.

Ted
 

Warfang

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That is more important than people are willing or realize to admit. A big problem however is insurance. Half of entry fees go to insurance. It is nothing less than extortion. We choose to track. We know the risks. It is criminal that so many can be sued so much over track accidents.

We know the risks.... but the lawyers know the payoff. It doesn't mater what paper you sign... a slimey enough lawyer will get blood money out of stone. Didn't the family of the guy that died in his Carerra GT on the track sue Porsche, the track and my grandmother even though he knew the risks going in? My personal favorite is the Skip Barber instructor that's suing a member for that VOI accident. You'd figure maybe his poor instruction is what caused the accident. :dunno:

We can blame the lawyers, but it's really the people behind the lawsuit that needs to get smacked down.
 

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