Roe vs. Paxton/Vortech superchargers. Which is better?

[Got_Vnum]

From what I understand, roots blowers like the Roe have a flatter power curve versus centrifugal blowers like Paxton/Vortech which make more power linearly as rpms go up. Even though roots blowers may not always make as much peak power as centrifugals, the area under the HP curve is greater, and you get most of the boost at low rpms, so wouldnt that mean that a Roe would be better for almost all street applications? Ive heard that they heat the intake air more than a centrifugal blower, but wouldnt an intercooler solve that problem?

I was struggling with the same question when considering a superchager for my 98 Mustang GT. The Eaton (roots) blower has a nice flat power curve and is supposed to be more reliable, which is why it was chosen as OEM for the Saleens and '03 Cobra, not to mention other makes like Mercedes. But it makes less peak HP than a Vortech with the same boost. I couldnt decide, so I sold the Stang and got my GTS.

Sorry if this question has been posted before, I searched for awhile and didnt come up with anything.

Please share your thoughts and opinions. Cheers

Irfan Malik

 

[Cudaman]

Are apples better than oranges....both are good it is which one YOU like better.

I prefer the Roe because it easier to drive on the street. The power comes on low and is evenly increased as RPMs come on. When Paxton/Vortech comes on so fast and hard at the higher RPMs you have a narrower band that the power is developed in so you must be fast to shift. If you were road coursing the car would have work the car harder(higher RPMs)and would be making the car hotter trying to keep it in the "powerband". You would be doing earlier shifts because you make lots of power at lower rpms(low and mid) with the Roe.

Cudaman

 

[1TONY1]

My Roe s/c works VERY well on the autocross course.
Some say the Paxton really needs to be professionally installed and tuned. It is a good looking kit from what I have seen.

p.s. The Roe is a screw type s/c, not roots type.

 

[RedGTS]

If you're looking for input on the two DIY kits and plan to go that way (install it yourself or have someone do it who isn't a serious Viper tuner), get the Roe.

 

[STUGOTS]

if you want fantastic support and easy install get a Roe.

 

[HARDVIPER]

Have a pro install a Paxton.

 

[Dave T (BADVENM)]

Hardviper, how much power with your setup. I am getting a similar setup (Corsa, hi-flows, Bellanger headers) from Woodhouse soon and was toying with a Paxton. Anyway, I have yet to see any numbers posted with a setup similar to yours and searching the archives, e-mailing Dan Cragin have come up with nothing. Oh yah, the car will have the piggy-back computer and will be dyno-tuned. Thanks for any insight!

 

[1BADSNK]

In my opinion it depends on the car. A roots/screw type is not used by the really fast cars. All fast Mustangs(8-10 sec. cars) for example use centrifugal Vortech, Paxton, or Procharger mostly. On the street the roots/screw type create more heat soak and wheelspin down low. The centrifugal creates the power with the rpm's for better racing.

For the Viper I had the screw type and it was underpowered, had a computer glitch around 5200 rpm, created way too much heat soak, melted my hood pad in 2 spots, and after you ran the car once it lost alot of power(due to heat soak).

The Paxton is also apparently having some DYI issues; however, if you call Kevin at UndergroundRacing.com he will put some old 5.0 Mustang tricks(fuel/boost/tuning) on the Viper Paxton kit and you can make a safe 700+ rwhp on a stock creampuff or 900+ rwhp on a '96-'99 motor.

I've used Vortech in the past and never had a problem with their unit. My Saleen S351 comes factory with one on it and I would never trade it for another head unit. They are noisy, and fast, with no underlying issues like it should be.

My wife's '03 Cobra came factory with a Eaton supercharger and they have proven to be reliable and smooth over the years. Like GOT VNUM said they are used by Ford,Mercedes,etc...

Bottom line on the Viper though I would buy heads/cam before a screw type blower. Same power and its always dependable power and much smoother. But if you have to get a blower and have around $14-15k get the Paxton package from UndergroundRacing.

 

[1TONY1]

Bottom line on the Viper though I would buy heads/cam before a screw type blower. Same power and its always dependable power and much smoother.

I'm going to have to debate that. Unless there are better heads/cam packages than I have seen, give me a basic Roe car with a stock engine and I will kill a heads/cam car. Drag strip, autocross, road course, doesn't matter where. I think the same would be true with a Paxton diy kit when done/tuned correctly, at least in drag racing. I have zero experience with the Paxton and turning corners.

 

[Jerry Colpitts]

Roe is the Way to go. The support with Sean is the best in the industry. The car runs smooth and the power is awesome.

 

[STUGOTS]

I'm going to have to debate that. Unless there are better heads/cam packages than I have seen, give me a basic Roe car with a stock engine and I will kill a heads/cam car. Drag strip, autocross, road course, doesn't matter where. I think the same would be true with a Paxton diy kit when done/tuned correctly, at least in drag racing. I have zero experience with the Paxton and turning corners.

I agree I have seen many combos and even the best heads (greg goods) and the best cam (TNT) will not make the power of a Roe blower at 5 pounds.

 

[glenn hofstetter]

I have the Paxton installed by Dan Cragin and its great! The power is more than needed on the street and the car sounds and acts stock until I hit the loud pedal. It also pays Cal Smog laws. I do think that the Paxton kit should be installed by someone that is a tuner.

 

[Gerald]

If you want BIG power now or in the future stick with the Paxton. If you want power with the Roe like the other guys, you'll have to be stroked, cammed, bored, Nitrous, etc...... Plus your engine doesn't look like an abortion covered in chrome or polished... LOL!

ooohh man am I gonna get flamed... we need some action over here anyways.

 

[Got_Vnum]

Nice to hear from you again Glenn, we met at DC Performances Dyno Day on Oct. 2nd. Dan will definetley be doing my install no matter which blower I decide on. If youre ever going to be at DC Performance again, send me a PM, Id love the chance to take a ride in your car before I decide which way to go.

 

[fuelman]

It seems that there are always more Roe Superchargers at the V10 nationals more of them drive to and from the track as well, tuned properly they make great reliable power at a great price. 1/4 mile racing on street tires I have giving some of the paxton guys a real run unitl the 1000 ft mark, at 1000-1100 ft that 14-15 lbs of boost really comes on and it is hard to beat with my 5lb Roe. Living in hot Florida I dive my car all year long with no issues and no intercooler. I think the Paxtons have an intercooler because they need them, don't think you could run them without, Big Heat Pump! Someday we will have an intercooler option, for now it is a small shot of nitrous. Both systems are good , you just need to decide where and how your gonna drive the car, if you like the supercharger boost at high RPM, go with the Paxton. If you think a big engine like the V-10 likes power down low go with the Roe.

 

[Daniel Cragin/DC Performance Inc]

Both systems work well, the Roe system makes more boost down low. The Paxton has much more potential for peak power. Whatever system you run, the key is in the tuning and keeping the intake tempretures as low as possible.

 

[1BADSNK]

Quote:
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Bottom line on the Viper though I would buy heads/cam before a screw type blower. Same power and its always dependable power and much smoother.


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[I'm going to have to debate that. Unless there are better heads/cam packages than I have seen, give me a basic Roe car with a stock engine and I will kill a heads/cam car. Drag strip, autocross, road course, doesn't matter where. I think the same would be true with a Paxton diy kit when done/tuned correctly, at least in drag racing. I have zero experience with the Paxton and turning corners.]


Here's what I'm basing my facts on. My 5lb.s/c car only dynoed at 525rwhp/550rwtq at the time. That was after at least 3 seperate attempts to tune it right. Without the s/c my car dynoed at 443rwhp/483rwhp.

So the srew type s/c only gave me 82rwhp/67rwtq on the same dyno.

My headers and roller rockers were added 2 months before the heads and cam and the car dynoed at 471rwhp/498 rwtq.(no s/c)

My heads/cam package dynoed at 541rwhp/590rwtq. (no s/c)

So bottom line the s/c gave me 82rwhp/67 rwtq.
Heads and cam w/no s/c gave me 70rwhp/92rwtq.

But the biggest difference is seat of the pants. With the s/c it was good the first time you laid into it. After that you could easily tell it fell off power. The heads/cam feel the same everytime I lay into it with no hick ups or smoke coming out of my exhaust.

 

[HARDVIPER]

Hardviper, how much power with your setup. I am getting a similar setup (Corsa, hi-flows, Bellanger headers) from Woodhouse soon and was toying with a Paxton. Anyway, I have yet to see any numbers posted with a setup similar to yours and searching the archives, e-mailing Dan Cragin have come up with nothing. Oh yah, the car will have the piggy-back computer and will be dyno-tuned. Thanks for any insight!

Dave T (BADVENM)
you got pm

 

[Simms]

I think comparing the same lb. Roe and Paxton kits, the Roe is a better kit.
Of coarse the tuner Paxton kits are pushing out more hp, but that is after smaller pullies (well beyond the 8lb), and custom fuel systems.
I don't think you should compare a DLM or Heffner car to an 8lb bolt on Roe. To the best of my knowledge, 10lb is the smallest pulley on a Roe blown car, maybe a 12 out there somewhere with water injection or some kind of intake cooling system.
Either way you can't loose with either option. If you just a simple bolt on kit 5-8lb, go Roe. If you want a custom 800-1000hp monster you will have to look into a Paxton kit by a tuner.
If you want a basic Paxton kit, have a good tuner of tech do the tuning and install, like DC Performance etc.
If you go with Roe, you can do it in your garage or have some of the best like Macedo, Roe himself, or Tator do the work for you.
In the end, the tuning is the key!

 

[1TONY1]

Here's what I'm basing my facts on. My 5lb.s/c car only dynoed at 525rwhp/550rwtq at the time. That was after at least 3 seperate attempts to tune it right.

All I can say, is something was skaaareewed up with your s/c setup.

I know this car is 8psi and yours was 5 psi, but.....

I recently sold a s/c to someone in the northeast. Gen2 car, stock manifolds, stock engine, may have had exhaust. This car made 585 rwhp and 680 rwtq.

My car, early on made 571/585 5 psi/headers/stock cats(pre vec2). Two days work in the garage, no pulling the heads and sending them off for a month+, no pulling the front off the engine to get to the cam.

Maybe we need to look at power under the curve to see the difference (if any). I know you are talking about heat soak with the s/c but I have not seen a problem with back to back to back dyno pulls.

We are getting a little off topic, but can you send me your best heads/cam dyno sheet. I would like to look at it beside a headers/rockers 5 psi s/c.

I just can't get away from how well my car did pre Vec2 with 5 psi/headers/stock cats video: http://users.catt.com/~darmour//viper1048.mpg

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

We'll its pretty simple, if you are going to do it yourself, Paxton is not an option, period. Roe wont make the ultimate power, but funny thing is, his kit DOES come with everything you need to run reliably, the Paxton cant even begin to claim that.

Good Luck, I personally would never put a paxton on my car again.

Jon

 

[STUGOTS]

alot of people are talking about paxton making more power this is true FOR NOW, don't forget paxton has an intercooler which allows them to run higher boost so of course it can make more power BUT lets see when Sean has his intercooler ready and they are running near the same psi on average then we will see.

as of right now your comparing a 8 psi blower to a 14 - 16 psi blower (with intercooler) of course the paxton will win.

 

[Gerald]

alot of people are talking about paxton making more power this is true FOR NOW, don't forget paxton has an intercooler which allows them to run higher boost so of course it can make more power BUT lets see when Sean has his intercooler ready and they are running near the same psi on average then we will see.

as of right now your comparing a 8 psi blower to a 14 - 16 psi blower (with intercooler) of course the paxton will win.

No flame intended but your waaay off base. Even if you put an intercooler on the current Roe twinscrew, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that you could come REMOTELY close to matching the same power output and boost the paxton will deliver! If you tried to compare the two (both units being equal) both units intercooled, the Paxton (centrifugal) will go WAAAY above and beyond the power and boost level where the twin screw drops off. The twinscrew will drop entirely out of it's efficiency range where it cannot produce any more boost.

Please prove me wrong and show me a current, intercooled Roe blower that can make 14 or 15 psi of boost -- Ain't gonna happen! A twinscrew with an intercooler would be even worse because the intercooler would cause it to be even more restrictive

G

 

[99 R/T 10]

Hey G,
but the arguement must be brought as to how much power is really usable on the street? Not sure what you mean by restriction, air flow is not the problem with the Roe, its heat build up. As it is now, My power output is just about right for the street (600 RWHP), at least on street tires. I don't plan to use drag radials while driving around town(although I know some do). Now if we are talking about high speed runs (say 70-150ish), and the Roe had the same boost with the intercooler, I bet it would be too close to call. Love to watch it happen though

 

[JimT 99RT]

I don’t worry about Boost Levels, Power under the curve, Intercoolers, Detonation, DYI kits, I run one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7928601345&category=33742

along with a Tornado fuel saver (www.tornadoair.com) and a Viper Air intake to give me all the power I need...

 

[fast?]

my roe blown car puts down some nice power with 8 lbs of boost. i have not felt a big decrease in power after back to back runs.

it definately does not heat soak if i use my water/**** injection. the blower runs so cool on the injection system, you can put your hands on the blower and it is cold to the touch. iat drop more than 100 degrees.

 

[STUGOTS]

Please prove me wrong and show me a current, intercooled Roe blower that can make 14 or 15 psi of boost -- Ain't gonna happen! A twinscrew with an intercooler would be even worse because the intercooler would cause it to be even more restrictive

G

Well theres non intercooled running 10 psi but since the intercooler is not even complete yet I can not show you an example of a 14 - 16 psi car no one can HOWEVER as well all know there are a few 10 psi Roe blower kits out there and when Sean says we will be able to run higher boost with the intercooler (when its complete) what psi are we looking at?? 12 - 14 because 10 is available now.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Just look at what RPM range you drive your Viper at.

If you drive it at 5000+ RPM all the time go with the Paxton.

If you drive it 1500-4000 RPM almost all of the time go with the Roe.

Even the few times I drag race, the amount of time in seconds of being over 5000 RPM is miniscule compared to the amount of time in seconds that I am between 1500 and 4000 RPM. I rarely go over 4000 RPM on the street, and then when I do, I usually have to hit the brakes to bring me back to the posted speed limit (or something closer to the posted speed limit).

The Roe is perfect for a street driven Viper that is being driven to last a long time.

 

[HOdbleFman]

STUGOTS, do you even know how a supercharger works?

 

[MIKE-HKS]

does Procharger make a kit for the vipers??????????