Swirl Marks & Orbital Buffer Questions

[DodgeViper01]

So I just bought an orbital buffer today and must say it is pretty interesting but I am not sure how an orbital buffer works. It still looks like it spins in a circle. Anyone know how to tell if it is acutally orbital besides looking at the box? It spins in a cirle and also moves in all directions "somewhat". I just do not want to damage the paint. Also, what product(s) should I use to remove swirls?

Thanking you all in advance

 

[Viperbass]

One sure way to tell if it is an orbital or a rotary is if it flings polish when using it. An orbital will throw a lot less compound unless you have too much on to begin with. Watch the pad when it slows down too. If you want to get the idea of a rotary, just attatch a buffing pad to a drill. It is the same concept. I have one friend that uses a cheap drill as his rotary. The main difference is that an orbital rocks back and forth so quickly it almost seems to be vibrating in place. An orbital will not build up heat where a rotary will. I have used both and each has their own application, but for a beginner an orbital is always best.

I too have a sapphire Viper and I used a rotary to initially remove some orange peel and flaws when I first got the car, but now only use an orbital.

I used to be a die hard 3M fan. Their swirl mark remover for dark cars works well, but takes some getting used to. You need to vary your pressure going towards very light with the final pass to remove all swirls. It can be hard to remove if you lets bits dry on the finish too. I recently switched to the new Zaino polish. It is much easier to use and the pressure is not as crucial. A slight haze may appear after use, but use some of the Z6 spray and this is gone.

One other key step is the pads you use. I currently use the Griot's orange pad for buffing and the red for any wax application. I know the 3M pads work well too. I have used them in the past with good results. DO NOT buy cheap pads, you will end up adding more swirls to your car. I have seen a disaster after someone used a set of cheap lamb's wool pads with a rotary buffer.

Hope this helps. Sapphire sure looks nice when it is clean and swirl free!

 

[bth1]

F355,

When I wet sanded my old Bonneville I wasn't sure what I was doing so I went to my local bodyshop and asked for an old fender that had sone damadge that they were throwing away. I then spent some time practicing on the piece of junk before taking it to my new paint. I found that really helpful.

 

[agentf1]

I love my orbital... I have found that Zaino Fusion (ZPC) and Menzerna polishes (FPII and IP)work very well with it. I also like Lake Country or Meguiars pads. If you have a dark color paint I would stay away from the foam cutting pads and stick with the polishing and finishing pads. You can get your backing plates and pads from www.properautocare.com. You can also do alot of reading about it at...

http://www.detailersclub.com
http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/detailing/
and in the car care section of the www.tupperwareforum.com ;-)

Alot of the different car car care sections will have a sticky on the PC usage, give http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13563 a try.

 

[ViperJoe]

The "somewhat" is what keeps it from burning through your paint.

A rotary buffer is what is used by auto detail professionals and in body shops, and is basically the same as a grinder or polisher. Only rotates at a high rate of speed.

A "random-orbital" buffer has a slower speed and "vibrates" so to speak. It is said that it is nearly impossible to screw your finish up using a random orbital buffer
(keyword - nearly, I'm sure someone somewhere has screwed up a finish using one)

 

[Nader]

Right a Random orbital buffer like the Porter Cable not only spins at a slower speed, but also will stop if to much pressure is exerted on the buffer. Additionally the spinning arm of the buffer is offset weighted so it created a random orbital motion in addtion to spinning.

 

[DodgeViper01]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I took a closer look at the Buffer and I can push it from left to right as well as spin the part holding the pad. Basically when I turn it off, the side to side movement stops and then it take a little while for the circular motion to stop. I just wanted to be sure before I did any damage to the paint especially since I have a DARK color.

 

[GTSnake]

I too have a sapphire Viper and I used a rotary to initially remove some orange peel and flaws when I first got the car, but now only use an orbital.

I don't know how you can remove orange peel with a buffer. Orange peel is in the paint not the clear coat. If you removed the orange peel in the paint you've burned through the clear. Now you're gonna have to re-paint the car and put the clear coat back on.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I have sanded out the orange peel in both my Vipers (just the fascia on the Gen III but the whole car on the RT/10O. It is in the top coat (clear coat). You can sand (very carefully) with 1500 then 2000 then 2500 until there are no apparent low spots. Going very slowly is the key to not over sanding and going through the clear. You only want to remove the peaks. While sanding (wet of course) you wipe it with an applicator and can see if the whole surface is dull or if shiny (low spots) remain. Once sanded the finish can be polished in stages to remove the sanding marks.

Tedious work to be sure but the results are worth it. I have avoided the Gen III poor areas becasue the fenders are softer, flexible plastic and it scares me too much.

 

[Newport Viper]

Wet sanding fun here:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=75

 

[Viperbass]

GR8 ASP is correct. Orange peel does originate with the paint and improper sanding between coats, but if you shoot clear over the orange peel, it will simply echo the peel in the paint underneath. If you lightly wetsand or buff these areas out it will lessen the effect of the orange peel. If you truly want to remove all of the peel, you do have to sand down through the clear into the paint, but that is not what I wanted. I was happy with the results of leveling the clear.

I have experimented on another side sill prior to it being repainted and these cars do have a good amount of clear on them before you actually break through to the paint underneath. It actually shocked me how much could be wet sanded and buffed before repainting was necessary.

Hope this helps clear up any confusion.

 

[Leslie]

I have the porter cable orbital from Griot's Garage. They also carry 3 levels of polish, based on how deep you want to go into the clear coat to remove swirls vs scratches.

Their orbital comes with pictured instructions-but basically you want to apply the polish to the orbital pad, put orbital ON the viper, THEN turn on. Section off area to be polished in SQUARES, up/down, then left/right-then move to the next section. Since the orbital is also rotating while you are working sections, you will get a perfect result.

Let polish 'flash', then use orbital to remove or use a microfiber cloth with a light mist of detail spray

 

[GTSnake]

GR8 ASP is correct. Orange peel does originate with the paint and improper sanding between coats, but if you shoot clear over the orange peel, it will simply echo the peel in the paint underneath. If you lightly wetsand or buff these areas out it will lessen the effect of the orange peel. If you truly want to remove all of the peel, you do have to sand down through the clear into the paint, but that is not what I wanted. I was happy with the results of leveling the clear.

But if you level off the clear the orange peel in the paint is still there. How/why would it make it any better? You just have a smooth clear coat over orange peel paint.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Tom, with clear coat paints the color layer is so thin it really offers little opportunity for any significant orange peel. Orange peel with clear coated cars is almost always in the clear coat.

 

[DodgeViper01]

I only have one setting. It only turns on.

 

[BACKNBLACK]

Thats becasue they know you never take car out in the rain so they sold you that one.Its called wax on wax off

 

[V 10 MAFIA]

So I just bought an orbital buffer today and must say it is pretty interesting but I am not sure how an orbital buffer works. It still looks like it spins in a circle. Anyone know how to tell if it is acutally orbital besides looking at the box? It spins in a cirle and also moves in all directions "somewhat". I just do not want to damage the paint. Also, what product(s) should I use to remove swirls?

Thanking you all in advance

Keith, I already gave you the product to remove swirls. Try it out you will not be dissapointed.

 

[DodgeViper01]

So I just bought an orbital buffer today and must say it is pretty interesting but I am not sure how an orbital buffer works. It still looks like it spins in a circle. Anyone know how to tell if it is acutally orbital besides looking at the box? It spins in a cirle and also moves in all directions "somewhat". I just do not want to damage the paint. Also, what product(s) should I use to remove swirls?

Thanking you all in advance

Keith, I already gave you the product to remove swirls. Try it out you will not be dissapointed.

But comes off after a wash or two.

 

[V 10 MAFIA]

Use it a couple of times by hand to get rid of the swirl marks. Put it on and let it dry each time for 20 minutes. then once its removed put on a straight wax to lock it in. Also you don't need to use a heavy detergent to wash your car which will strip everything from the clear coat each time. Find a mild car wash product and add enough water so the mixture isn't so concentrated. I know you keep up with your car and I can't see it getting so dirty that it needs heavy detergents. If you need a recommendation of straight wax to apply, let me know. It will help the car's finish last a while.