What's a safe minimum drive during winter to avoid excessive engine wear?

swexlin

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Ivan I think you're being paranoid about the salt. Just use my method - I drove 50 miles yesterday :D or whenever it's sunny and most salt is gone. Then wash immediately after. It seems like this wouldn't be much worse than the minimal amount of salt you pick up from driving around the garage (that other cars left) right?

I put about 30 miles on the car today. We had some crappy wet roads this morning, but she's been sitting for a month, and I had to get her out. There was another reason as well, as I was driving her in memory of a friend of mine (and fellow Viper owner) who passed away. She fired right up after sitting in sleep mode, drove her to cars and coffee, parked her, and then she fired right up again!

I got out my detailer when I got back to the garage, and gave her a quick clean up!
 

HobokenViper

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Any time salt touches the car whether it be the paint, engine, or undercarriage, it causes corrosion. I highly doubt you are getting all the salt off the engine or undercarriage and other components such as the suspension, etc when you wash it. Best way to keep your Viper in pristine shape and help maintain its future value is to never drive it in bad weather, or especially when salt is on the ground. As painful as it might be, if you resist the urge to drive it in the winter, you will have a car that won't need an expensive restoration in 10-20 years. Besides, it's dangerous to drive them with the torque and tires being what they are in temps under 45 degrees anyway, so why risk it? I'm currently depressed as I haven't driven my Viper in over 2 months, but it will make the Spring that much better and fun!
 
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ipetrov

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Guilty as charged :) Just sick and tired of washing/detailing properly. Sometimes it's really hard to get that stuff off.

I'm sure it's also harder to see on your silver car. Chicago road salt shouldn't be underestimated, though. Here's a good example of what happens to me on a regular basis. I park my black DD car on an overpass (at least 10 ft over a busy highway). Leave it there Sunday afternoon, fresh and shiny from the carwash, come back Monday to find it absolutely disgusting, all covered in white powder, just from the leftover salt taken up by wind and speeding cars. This is without any additional snowfall or salt dump on seemingly clean roads. You need to sport a black car for only a few days to really appreciate how bad it can get.

Ivan I think you're being paranoid about the salt. Just use my method - I drove 50 miles yesterday :D or whenever it's sunny and most salt is gone. Then wash immediately after. It seems like this wouldn't be much worse than the minimal amount of salt you pick up from driving around the garage (that other cars left) right?
 
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ipetrov

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Good points, my friend. I'm strongly considering going the save mode route.

Any time salt touches the car whether it be the paint, engine, or undercarriage, it causes corrosion. I highly doubt you are getting all the salt off the engine or undercarriage and other components such as the suspension, etc when you wash it. Best way to keep your Viper in pristine shape and help maintain its future value is to never drive it in bad weather, or especially when salt is on the ground. As painful as it might be, if you resist the urge to drive it in the winter, you will have a car that won't need an expensive restoration in 10-20 years. Besides, it's dangerous to drive them with the torque and tires being what they are in temps under 45 degrees anyway, so why risk it? I'm currently depressed as I haven't driven my Viper in over 2 months, but it will make the Spring that much better and fun!
 

swexlin

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Any time salt touches the car whether it be the paint, engine, or undercarriage, it causes corrosion. I highly doubt you are getting all the salt off the engine or undercarriage and other components such as the suspension, etc when you wash it. Best way to keep your Viper in pristine shape and help maintain its future value is to never drive it in bad weather, or especially when salt is on the ground. As painful as it might be, if you resist the urge to drive it in the winter, you will have a car that won't need an expensive restoration in 10-20 years. Besides, it's dangerous to drive them with the torque and tires being what they are in temps under 45 degrees anyway, so why risk it? I'm currently depressed as I haven't driven my Viper in over 2 months, but it will make the Spring that much better and fun!

You make excellent points. However, I have had mine out with temps of 20*, and as long as you are very careful, you'll be OK, at least on PS2s. As for 10-20 years? Seeing my friend Victor pass makes me realize I need to enjoy life now. If I'm still around in 20 years, I'll worry about the restoration then!

Hoboken, hopefully we'll see you at some shows in the MidAtlantic this season? Would love to see your car.
 

webby

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Any time salt touches the car whether it be the paint, engine, or undercarriage, it causes corrosion. I highly doubt you are getting all the salt off the engine or undercarriage and other components such as the suspension, etc when you wash it. Best way to keep your Viper in pristine shape and help maintain its future value is to never drive it in bad weather, or especially when salt is on the ground. As painful as it might be, if you resist the urge to drive it in the winter, you will have a car that won't need an expensive restoration in 10-20 years. Besides, it's dangerous to drive them with the torque and tires being what they are in temps under 45 degrees anyway, so why risk it? I'm currently depressed as I haven't driven my Viper in over 2 months, but it will make the Spring that much better and fun!

I already know mine won't be one of those flawless original cars, so I don't worry about future value too much. I hope it won't need an expensive restoration though. I always hear mixed things about the effects of salt. Some say not to worry about it and that washing immediately after driving is good enough, others act like it's the end of the world. Oh well
 

HobokenViper

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You make excellent points. However, I have had mine out with temps of 20*, and as long as you are very careful, you'll be OK, at least on PS2s. As for 10-20 years? Seeing my friend Victor pass makes me realize I need to enjoy life now. If I'm still around in 20 years, I'll worry about the restoration then!

Hoboken, hopefully we'll see you at some shows in the MidAtlantic this season? Would love to see your car.

Sorry to hear your friend passed on..... Although I'm young at 34 years old and have lead a very healthy lifestyle my entire life including being a former bodybuilder and fitness model, I recently found out that I was born with a dangerous heart condition a year ago and that was what prompted me to get my Viper several years before I would have otherwise. While I plan to live until I'm 100+ and healthy, you just never know when your time is up..... Having said all that, while I'm now living a bit more for today than I did before as a result of this sobering personal news, I also am still thinking for the future which is why I plan to keep my car pristine and perfect for decades to come in the hopes that I'm here until I'm a very old man.....

On another note, I fired her up today for the first time in 2 months for a bunch of buddies to see, and forgot how great she sounded! The Viper is a pure testosterone booster! Haha! Wouldn't dare take her out on the streets though as the roads are still covered in salt, and it is sub 20 degrees outside today and my tires act like it is driving on pure ice when it gets this cold out.
 

HobokenViper

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I already know mine won't be one of those flawless original cars, so I don't worry about future value too much. I hope it won't need an expensive restoration though. I always hear mixed things about the effects of salt. Some say not to worry about it and that washing immediately after driving is good enough, others act like it's the end of the world. Oh well

I'm a bit jealous of you as I wish I had another Viper that wasn't as perfect or a rare color combo like the one that I own now so I could drive it more often without feeling such guilt. However, taking care of my cars the way I do is personally very rewarding to me and makes it feel that much more special when I do get to take her out for a drive somewhere, as it feels like a special event of sorts. Maybe in a few years I will pick up another one with some more miles on the clock and in a more common color that I won't mind driving more often, or I'll just get another more "practical" toy that can be used more often without any guilt such as a Nissan GTR, Audi R8, Lotus Elise/Exige, or dare I say it, a C7 Vette.....??? Haha! Either way, my Viper is my life-long dream car and personal treasure (second only to my family), and to me it would be a small disaster if it got scratched up, damaged, or covered in salt.

It is a fact that cars that are exposed to salt tend to have problems with corrosion. Salt is a corrosive element when it comes to almost all metals and the paint as well, and any exposure to it at all is too much in my opinion IF you are looking to keep a car in pristine condition. Just look at cars that were in flood waters that came from the ocean with it's salt water vs. cars that just had fresh water flood them. Fresh water flooded cars are far more salvageable than cars that were flooded by salt water. I saw and learned about that first hand when Hurricane Sandy hit my area and anything that was flooded by the ocean's salt water was not salvageable at all and became very quickly completely corroded over and turned into junk. OR look at cars that are kept at homes in beach communities right next to the ocean and are exposed to the small bits of salt spray in the air. They tend to have terrible damage to the paint and undercarriage before long (much faster than cars kept inland or not exposed to salt as often). On the contrary, cars that are kept in the dessert areas around the country such as Arizona or New Mexico are often in the best condition as the dry air helps to preserve them even better as even too much humidity or moisture is also not good for your car in the long term (except the seals and gaskets tend to dry out and need to be replaced, but everything else stays mint). However, if you don't care about any of this, then drive the hell out of your car and have as much fun with it as you want as you only live once, and enjoy your car the way that suits you best. In my book, there is no right or wrong way to enjoy your car(s) as we all have them for different reasons and have different reasons for owning them (racing, daily fun driver, collection, etc.....).
 

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To each his own, but....
I can't imagine being concerned with a Viper's value 20 years from now or that being the reason I didn't go take a drive on a cold clear day.
Or even owning the same car 20 years from now.

The Viper just celebrated its 20 year anniversary. And what are those first year history making Vipers worth today?
Squat. Any of us could drop dead tomorrow. I say go take a drive whenever you can.
Nobody gets tomorrow guaranteed.
 

ViperSmith

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I have to agree with Jon. I bought my car to drive. I'll be plenty happy if it is worth 1/2 of the purchase price in 5 years. Ill let the next owner worry about salt damage. If it is worth less than that - such is life.

Honesty, I never understood the "buy it and don't drive it" crowd. FerrariChat is filled with them, "you'll lose so much value!" - who the hell buys cars to worry about their value. To me it is like the saying "it is like not sleeping with your girlfriend so her next boyfriend has low mileage"

Life is short, enjoy. (But if your enjoyment is just having the car and not driving, more power to you)
 

swexlin

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To each his own, but....
I can't imagine being concerned with a Viper's value 20 years from now or that being the reason I didn't go take a drive on a cold clear day.
Or even owning the same car 20 years from now.

The Viper just celebrated its 20 year anniversary. And what are those first year history making Vipers worth today?
Squat. Any of us could drop dead tomorrow. I say go take a drive whenever you can.
Nobody gets tomorrow guaranteed.

Aaron (Hoboken) and I discussed this very thing over ***. We each enjoy our own way. Me, I take a drive when I can, because I may not get another chance!
 

HobokenViper

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Let me clarify..... I drive the car, maybe 1,000-1,500 miles per year max. Have owned many other sports cars in the past and drove the hell out of them, had my full fun with them, and got bored and sold them. I don't want that happening with the Viper (not sure that could ever happen) as I love it so much and want to keep it for MANY years to come as the first car of my future collection. I want every drive I take with the car to be like a special occasion or reward to myself so I always look forward to it, and so far that has been the case. Truthfully, I don't think there is any way I could possibly drive the car any more than I already do anyway with a young baby at home and commuting to work by mass transit...and I end up taking it mainly to car shows and an occasional joy drive. But I appreciate that you guys want to get your maximum pleasure out of it for a few years and then move on to the next toy as that used to be me as well. I'm sure I'll find another car to drive like that again soon, or maybe a 2nd "driver" Viper if the wife will allow it, but for now this is how I enjoy my car. To each their own.....
 

ViperSmith

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Let me clarify..... I drive the car, maybe 1,000-1,500 miles per year max. Have owned many other sports cars in the past and drove the hell out of them, had my full fun with them, and got bored and sold them. I don't want that happening with the Viper (not sure that could ever happen) as I love it so much and want to keep it for MANY years to come as the first car of my future collection. I want every drive I take with the car to be like a special occasion or reward to myself so I always look forward to it, and so far that has been the case. Truthfully, I don't think there is any way I could possibly drive the car any more than I already do anyway with a young baby at home and commuting to work by mass transit...and I end up taking it mainly to car shows and an occasional joy drive. But I appreciate that you guys want to get your maximum pleasure out of it for a few years and then move on to the next toy as that used to be me as well. I'm sure I'll find another car to drive like that again soon, or maybe a 2nd "driver" Viper if the wife will allow it, but for now this is how I enjoy my car. To each their own.....
Agree with you!
 

HobokenViper

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To each his own, but....
I can't imagine being concerned with a Viper's value 20 years from now or that being the reason I didn't go take a drive on a cold clear day.
Or even owning the same car 20 years from now.

The Viper just celebrated its 20 year anniversary. And what are those first year history making Vipers worth today?
Squat. Any of us could drop dead tomorrow. I say go take a drive whenever you can.
Nobody gets tomorrow guaranteed.

The RT-10 didn't hold its value as well as the GTS did, but is still selling for 50% of it's original sale price or better just 20 years later. However many GTS models are selling for as much as they did when new, give or take a little, if they are mint and lower mileage. And I guarantee that the original Viper will have its day in the sun one day when you will see its value shoot back up again. While you may not care about the future value of your car, there are many people and collectors like myself that do.
 
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ipetrov

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Good points, ViperJon and ViperSmith. Never cared for resale value or mileage to begin with. Mine is a rebuilt tiltle car with what passes for "high mileage" these days. From what I could find out prior two owners kept it in absolute mint condition pre-accident. Best car I've ever had or driven, period. It's not an asset on my personal balance sheet, it's a sex toy. I remember a time not too long ago when people bought cars and houses (mostly with cash) to use and enjoy them, not as "Investments Held for Sale" on their personal balance sheets.

Hell, coming from a former comunist country, I remember my parents having to pay full cash price down and then wait years for a crappy soviet Lada, time value of money be damned. Today people buy cars they can't afford left and right, with 0% down, no income, no cash, no credit, no worries! Then we wonder why the prices of anything from Vipers to McMansions go to hell in a handbasket.

If there's anything to be worried about as a Viper owner, I'd say it's the govenrment outlawing our cars (like they are trying to do with guns), or making them cost prohibitive to own in the name of an upcoming green utopia that has nothing to do with preserving the environment and everything to do with population control. If you think it's impossible, look no further than, say, Singapore where a used Viper would set you off maybe a modest $200k, and run you $20k in taxes alone per year.

Enjoy what you have while you have it. It looks like the days of cheap, good old fashioned American fun are counted. I personally am not looking forward to re-living my past, it's not fun.
 
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MoparMap

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From what I've seen in the roller coaster of weather here in Kansas in the past month or so I've had the car is that it seems to drive just fine no matter what the conditions. I've had it out when it was 8 degrees in the morning (I leave at 6 am and have about a 30 minute commute on mostly highway) and also when the weather has managed to reach high 60's. As far as traction the tires do just fine (brand new PSS's on it when I bought the car) if you drive it like a regular car, and even under some spirited driving. They do seem to bite better when things warm up, but they don't feel really slippery when they're cold by any means. I'll drive it in the rain without too many reservations (it seals better than my 67 Dart and 71 Corvette), but I do leave it in the garage for snow. While I do worry about corrosion some, I don't near as much as with my old cars. The Viper frame is both galvanized and E-coated from what I've heard, so it's pretty rock solid for staying power no matter what conditions. I was just under the car the other day and with the stainless belly pan as well the majority of the car is pretty well protected from any spray. Paint may be another story, but I don't have much experience with that one.
 

swexlin

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From what I've seen in the roller coaster of weather here in Kansas in the past month or so I've had the car is that it seems to drive just fine no matter what the conditions. I've had it out when it was 8 degrees in the morning (I leave at 6 am and have about a 30 minute commute on mostly highway) and also when the weather has managed to reach high 60's. As far as traction the tires do just fine (brand new PSS's on it when I bought the car) if you drive it like a regular car, and even under some spirited driving. They do seem to bite better when things warm up, but they don't feel really slippery when they're cold by any means. I'll drive it in the rain without too many reservations (it seals better than my 67 Dart and 71 Corvette), but I do leave it in the garage for snow. While I do worry about corrosion some, I don't near as much as with my old cars. The Viper frame is both galvanized and E-coated from what I've heard, so it's pretty rock solid for staying power no matter what conditions. I was just under the car the other day and with the stainless belly pan as well the majority of the car is pretty well protected from any spray. Paint may be another story, but I don't have much experience with that one.

Glad to see another enjoying and using our cars. What I've seen from this thread is that we all have our own ways of enjoying them, and that is what its really all about!
 

webby

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I'm a bit jealous of you as I wish I had another Viper that wasn't as perfect or a rare color combo like the one that I own now so I could drive it more often without feeling such guilt. However, taking care of my cars the way I do is personally very rewarding to me and makes it feel that much more special when I do get to take her out for a drive somewhere, as it feels like a special event of sorts. Maybe in a few years I will pick up another one with some more miles on the clock and in a more common color that I won't mind driving more often, or I'll just get another more "practical" toy that can be used more often without any guilt such as a Nissan GTR, Audi R8, Lotus Elise/Exige, or dare I say it, a C7 Vette.....??? Haha! Either way, my Viper is my life-long dream car and personal treasure (second only to my family), and to me it would be a small disaster if it got scratched up, damaged, or covered in salt.

It is a fact that cars that are exposed to salt tend to have problems with corrosion. Salt is a corrosive element when it comes to almost all metals and the paint as well, and any exposure to it at all is too much in my opinion IF you are looking to keep a car in pristine condition. Just look at cars that were in flood waters that came from the ocean with it's salt water vs. cars that just had fresh water flood them. Fresh water flooded cars are far more salvageable than cars that were flooded by salt water. I saw and learned about that first hand when Hurricane Sandy hit my area and anything that was flooded by the ocean's salt water was not salvageable at all and became very quickly completely corroded over and turned into junk. OR look at cars that are kept at homes in beach communities right next to the ocean and are exposed to the small bits of salt spray in the air. They tend to have terrible damage to the paint and undercarriage before long (much faster than cars kept inland or not exposed to salt as often). On the contrary, cars that are kept in the dessert areas around the country such as Arizona or New Mexico are often in the best condition as the dry air helps to preserve them even better as even too much humidity or moisture is also not good for your car in the long term (except the seals and gaskets tend to dry out and need to be replaced, but everything else stays mint). However, if you don't care about any of this, then drive the hell out of your car and have as much fun with it as you want as you only live once, and enjoy your car the way that suits you best. In my book, there is no right or wrong way to enjoy your car(s) as we all have them for different reasons and have different reasons for owning them (racing, daily fun driver, collection, etc.....).

:2tu:

Definitely no wrong way to enjoy your car!

I also agree with you that the RT/10 value will eventually go way up! Most cars take at least 30 years before they attain that collector status. If I had a '92 RT/10 or '96 GTS I'd be way more keen on keeping it in pristine condition, because I think they will be very valuable in 10-20 years.
 

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