Words simply can't describe how wrong that would be......
a little birdie says......
- Thread starter moldowan
- Start date
Words simply can't describe how wrong that would be......
yes becuz it would be a 6.4
ACR steve
Enthusiast
Joel w -" I'd sure be interested in a 6.1 hemi Viper for around $60,000. Purists would say it is not a Viper but I believe the new 6.1 would have almost equal performance to the Gen 2 and Gen 3 cars. "
Thats why Corvettes exist. No offense but maybe some guys are meant to own Vettes
Thats why Corvettes exist. No offense but maybe some guys are meant to own Vettes
JoelW
Enthusiast
Perhaps you really meant no offense but that's a pretty silly thing to say but you're obviously a long time owner. I'm sure if you look at GM's bottom line, they are happy for the choices and if they had to depend on just a supercharged car they wouldn't sell many. The V10 in Gen 1, 2, 3, and 4 cars is technology that is pretty dated by today's standards. The 6.1 hemi makes almost as much horsepower as the refined small block derivative of the V10 we have in our cars without 8.4 liters. Could the 6.1 make more - undoubtedly. What I like about the Viper doesn't just center around a V10 and a better Viper doesn't have to have one. What I do like about the V10 is that it is reliable and fairly easy to work on but the new car may not be that way - we'll see. You may have to have an ACR but everyone doesn't. And I can tell you this, no one is a bigger MOPAR fan than I am.
goldcup
Enthusiast
With all due respect and I do mean that.You are in a minority probably single digits at least among us here. From what I can find the 6.1 produces about the same torque as my old GenII. That would be a giant leap back!
HP means nothing Torque is everything. The Vipers very definition since its original design was to provide raw performance with no frills, your statement of the technology being "dated" is absolutely correct and makes absolutely no sense when talking about the Viper. As of last Fall the most technologically advanced V8's couldnt touch the "dated" Vipers V10 in terms of real world performance. Times are changing and to survive the Viper must change with it. Changing to a V-8 or other will kill the car for most of us. Lets face it Corvette does the V8 exceptionally well why not just buy that if they change the Vipers powerplant?
Everyone has their own tastes and opinions, most of us in the VCA are drawn to the car for much the same reasons. For us Viper is V-10
Your money is as green as mine if they go V8 (which there is no chance of) you will buy and be happy and I will buy something else.
HP means nothing Torque is everything. The Vipers very definition since its original design was to provide raw performance with no frills, your statement of the technology being "dated" is absolutely correct and makes absolutely no sense when talking about the Viper. As of last Fall the most technologically advanced V8's couldnt touch the "dated" Vipers V10 in terms of real world performance. Times are changing and to survive the Viper must change with it. Changing to a V-8 or other will kill the car for most of us. Lets face it Corvette does the V8 exceptionally well why not just buy that if they change the Vipers powerplant?
Everyone has their own tastes and opinions, most of us in the VCA are drawn to the car for much the same reasons. For us Viper is V-10
Your money is as green as mine if they go V8 (which there is no chance of) you will buy and be happy and I will buy something else.
ACR steve
Enthusiast
Honestly to each his/her own . My only point is Viper is not a car for everyone and the more masses you try to make the car appeal to the less appealing of a car it becomes
What he said.
Truer words never spoken.
JoelW
Enthusiast
So to follow your logic to its logical conclusion Dodge or SRT now should only make one car?! That way it would be very exclusive and unobtainable except for one person. We'll just have to wait and see in April and how the new car tests out. Right now I'm happy with mine as I'm sure all of you are. I know I don't have a +$100K burning a hole in my wallet.
1. What would you do with all the extra room insuide the engine compartment if you used a 6.4 engine? Cupholders?
2. With that said, I would not refuse a 6.4 engine or a 426 CI engine with forged internals and an Eaton supercharger system producing 800 HP/700 lbs of torque. ( Don't worry. Such an engine will never be in a Viper.)
2. With that said, I would not refuse a 6.4 engine or a 426 CI engine with forged internals and an Eaton supercharger system producing 800 HP/700 lbs of torque. ( Don't worry. Such an engine will never be in a Viper.)
72hemi
Enthusiast
SRT wants their cars to be exclusive. They do not want people to see them on every street corner. In fact I heard they are considering limiting production of all SRT models despite what demand is for them. I am sure they could sell 30,000 Vipers a year like they do the Corvette if they offered an "entry model" but that is not what they want and I agree with them. One of the things I love about the Viper is that it is exclusive and as a result I get really excited every time I see one, unlike Corvettes and Porsches which are on every street corner.
Makara
Viper Owner
I agree with most of what you said except for this. HP means a lot in terms of performance. Clearly the torque curve means a lot in overall performance, but in the grand scheme of things, at any given speed, your greatest acceleration will happen at the HP peak, not the torque peak.
shooter_t1
Has Left the Room!
I love it when new owners come on here and tell us how Corvette does it better. I especially like it when they say the Viper doesn't need a V10. So here ya go, I'll say it just once, because it appears you haven't heard. IF IT DOESN'T HAVE A V10....IT'S NOT A VIPER
Thank you, now carry on with your whining.
No, but they should only make one motor.
You should not have to guess if that Viper coming down the street is the entry level Viper or the "super-duper" Viper.
We don't need the real estate lady down the street driving an entry level Viper, that's for the Vettes.
That's what always made the Viper different there was no base model.
And yes, I would prefer the new Viper is very exclusive.
viperbilliam
Enthusiast
1. Make the Viper shorter and reduce the polar moment which would improve handling. This would make a shorter hood - would we like that? So many are saying the V10 defines the Viper (I disagree) but I think its look has a lot to do with it. The long hood as dictated by the V10 does have a lot to do with that look.
kdaviper
Enthusiast
Reducing the moment of inertia wouldn't necisarrily create a better-handling car. It would definately take away from high-speed stability and might make the car prone to oversteer. There's always going to be a trade-off if you change the handling dynamics of a car.
Anyone heard the rumor that the Viper engines were developed by McLaren (USA)? They developed 4 or 5 different versions of the engine that were approaching 800HP output. A version included 10 individual throttle bodies with a coil pack at each cylinder.
JoelW
Enthusiast
But there is a base Viper and an ACR and an ACR-X ... And all this time I thought the Viper was about engineering the best car - a V10 doesn't make it the best car! It might be different but I digress. There are folks here that know more about the history of Viper than I do but the V10 was originally a truck motor and maybe the best platform powerplant available at the time. Wheels, hubs and other components were from the Dakota. Much of the electrical components and hardware came from a variety of cars built by Chrysler at the time. The Viper was never a blank sheet of paper, we'll build it from scratch and make something no one else has no matter what it costs, it was how to create something spectacular and the use of the best parts from the Chrysler bin in a hand assembled car. It was and is a magnificent effort and any car that is built to handle and look like a Viper will not be mistaken for anything else. And yes when I was at Krogers the other day it was full of ladies driving Corvettes. Give me a break. A 450 plus horsepower Viper V8 is not going to be mistaken for a Dodge Dart. And I bet somewhere along the line, Chrysler would like to make money on the Vipers. Surely they haven't gone the way of British Leyland Motors yet. All I said was what I'd like to see. If not a Viper then one of the Chrysler show cars. Last time I read the forums there were plenty of you who weren't going to get what you liked either!
CMilViper
Enthusiast
^^^^^^I agree on all of the above....Exactly....
TowDawg
Enthusiast
If they want to make another car "based" on the Viper, but not actually a Viper, with a pumped up 6.4, that would be a good move. Some other 2 seater (like the Demon), with great performance and price tag in the 50-60k range would be a great fighter against the base Vette and not dilute what the Viper is.
F8L SNK
Enthusiast
agreed 100%
SRT makes way more than one car, but a Viper should be a V10. Even if it ever moves away from a V10 is should be one engine and one engine only. The Viper, ACR and ACRX all have, you guessed it, one engine. The X has different pistons but that is the only difference. The different engines should be for the other models. The Viper is the Flagship of the brand and should not be diluted. Just my opinion of course
viperdrummer
Enthusiast
Having just bought Fiat's other sports cat, a 458 Italia, the prices mentioned here seem cheap. And the Ferrari only has a V8.
commandomatt
Enthusiast
Well much like preaching to to the choir (for the most part) I also agree that the only way the Viper will retain its uniqueness is by using the V10 engine. Who cares where it originally came from..the power, the Torque (this IS the power that launches you) the look. Esthetically Nothing...I mean Nothing looks as sweet as that engine that seems to go on forever.
Great point about the Real estate lady driving down the road in her entry level Viper. One of the main reasons I wanted and ultimately bought a Viper was because they are rare. I dont care if there are other cars that will beat it on paper.....most of those cars dont have the rawness and appeal that our Vipers have.
Ask the Ford GT guys if they would like for Ford to offer another GT but with a friendlier approach, less exotic engine and drive line, chassis and suspension at and right around, say, 60K. Yeahh...that would get some really positive feedback.
If you want a new car for around 60K, there are some great offerings. Plenty of different brands, models, colors and options to choose from. Yes you will get a car that they are making 30-50,000 of a year, so rare it wont be, but you will have some fun regardless.
Don't come here and tell us we need a discount version of our beloved machine. Realize the effort, work and dedication it has taken to position the Viper where it is today. To suggest to take all that and literally throw it away just so every Joe can drive one...well that is not only a weak argument bad bad business.
Matt
Great point about the Real estate lady driving down the road in her entry level Viper. One of the main reasons I wanted and ultimately bought a Viper was because they are rare. I dont care if there are other cars that will beat it on paper.....most of those cars dont have the rawness and appeal that our Vipers have.
Ask the Ford GT guys if they would like for Ford to offer another GT but with a friendlier approach, less exotic engine and drive line, chassis and suspension at and right around, say, 60K. Yeahh...that would get some really positive feedback.
If you want a new car for around 60K, there are some great offerings. Plenty of different brands, models, colors and options to choose from. Yes you will get a car that they are making 30-50,000 of a year, so rare it wont be, but you will have some fun regardless.
Don't come here and tell us we need a discount version of our beloved machine. Realize the effort, work and dedication it has taken to position the Viper where it is today. To suggest to take all that and literally throw it away just so every Joe can drive one...well that is not only a weak argument bad bad business.
Matt
And on a completely selfish note, I LIKE going to a car show or casual gathering of motor heads and having maybe two Vipers there amidst the hundred Vettes and Stangs.
The car gets respect for what it represents.
It's not for everybody, hell it's not for most people and that's just how I like it.
The car gets respect for what it represents.
It's not for everybody, hell it's not for most people and that's just how I like it.
Agreed with extreme prejudice.
Smog Dog
Enthusiast
Also strongly agree, and while we are off the original topic---the red stripe looks great Jon!
Bill
Exactly. I know I'll catch **** for this but the more affordable used Vipers have become, the more new people who don't understand the Viper have infiltrated the ranks. The Viper is not a true competitor to the corvette. The vette never has and never will be an exotic. It is a mass produced sports car that is a lot of bang for your buck.
The Viper is supposed to be a low volume niche exotic car. It is not supposed to be practical. Burning your legs on the side sills, spinning out if you are not careful, questionable interior construction all makes the Viper what it is. That's what we love about it. More and more newbies keep trying to change it. If you don't like it, there is a huge pool of available options. Go buy a Vette, a Porsche, a used Lambo, etc. They are all great cars. The Viper is supposed to defy the rules that the mainstream pushes. When the Euro engineers (namely Porsche) stated no big motored front engined car car ever beat their small motored rear/mid engined cars in racing, dodge gave them the middle finger and won. The only way those Euro cars can even compete is through heavily handicapping the Viper. To add insult to injury, the Viper did it for a fraction of the price.
Putting a smaller motor or making a cheaper version will dilute the Viper. It will strip away what it's all about. If you want a $60k Viper go buy a grand sport vette. It's a hell of a car for the money.
72hemi
Enthusiast
Well stated!
Clearly you know nothing about the history of the Viper. The Viper has NEVER been an engineering marvel. The Viper has ALWAYS been the nemesis of engineering marvels such as Porsche. The Viper was almost a frankencar if you will, and it just so happened to be a great performer. The competition said exactly what you did, that the big old V10 truck motor (which happened to be engineered by Lamborghini) could never beat their highly efficient and light weight V8s and 6s. And guess what happened? They got their asses handed to them.
SRT should send some guys in suits with ear pieces to your house, confiscate your Viper, and give you a good spanking for speaking such blasphemy!
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