twinvipers
Enthusiast
Which is the best supercharger for the Viper ? I have an 00 and the only mod I want is a supercharger .
Any prices and RWHP #'s would help.
Thanks
Any prices and RWHP #'s would help.
Thanks
best supercharger ?
- Thread starter twinvipers
- Start date
Russ M
Enthusiast
Your only options are Roe, Heffner, or Levin.
Roe is cheapest about 10-11k after all the components you will need. 600rwhp
Heffner is a bit more which I believe is 15k or so but he supposedly will not install a blower kit on a non forged piston car.
Levin, probably the ultimate in blowers for Vipers and his price starts at 17k, for about 700rwhp.
Roe is cheapest about 10-11k after all the components you will need. 600rwhp
Heffner is a bit more which I believe is 15k or so but he supposedly will not install a blower kit on a non forged piston car.
Levin, probably the ultimate in blowers for Vipers and his price starts at 17k, for about 700rwhp.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
Russ, he said all he wanted was the S/C, not headers or RR. Roe installed is about $8000($7495+$500 install). Although Check with Sean Roe to double check my numbers.
twinvipers
Enthusiast
Doesn't Paxton make one also ?
Check out Heffner's site at www.heffnersperformance.com it will give you the complete details of his S/C package which is the least expensive package producing the most HP out there. Jason Heffner continues to set the bar by which all others are measured.
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
ahhh.... think I'll pull me up a deck chair and go get me a drink and watch this one play out 
Cheap and best don't mix - so I won't get me a mixer, no siree.... think I'll grab a beer... yeah.
Cheap and best don't mix - so I won't get me a mixer, no siree.... think I'll grab a beer... yeah.
Paxton-Rep
Enthusiast
What constitutes a "best supercharger" what are you looking for in a "best supercharger" does it have to be a kit, does it have a warranty, what are the performance levels of the blower, etc. All of these items should be taken into consideration. I will have a biased opininon (naturally) But I am not here to bash anyone, every blower, every blower kit will have it's own characteristics. If you follow the link below it will put you into the Paxton website and you check out the Supercharger kit for a Viper, maybe that can help your decision out also.
www.paxtonauto.com
Keep in mind that the kit retails for 7995.00 and this is a complete kit! Has a 3-year limited warranty, and does come with an air-water aftercooler!
Thanks
Kelly.
www.paxtonauto.com
Keep in mind that the kit retails for 7995.00 and this is a complete kit! Has a 3-year limited warranty, and does come with an air-water aftercooler!
Thanks
Kelly.
Welcome.
I have a roe, and I have about 15k into this set up. You will need some one to tune your car after any s/c install. We all want peace of mind. Just do the reserch. All s/c that have been listed so far are all well performers. Price should not matter when spending $$ on your Viper. Just my .02
I have a roe, and I have about 15k into this set up. You will need some one to tune your car after any s/c install. We all want peace of mind. Just do the reserch. All s/c that have been listed so far are all well performers. Price should not matter when spending $$ on your Viper. Just my .02
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
Can't go wrong with any of them, but for me, I picked the DLM and have never had any regrets.
Mine at the time was a LOT less than 17k I hear people toss around, though I doubt a DLM set-up could be had for 9k.
I have a lot of respect for my car... scares the $#!@ out of me everyday. DLM has that in the small print, you know, when you pick-up your car...
Just my .02...
Mine at the time was a LOT less than 17k I hear people toss around, though I doubt a DLM set-up could be had for 9k.
I have a lot of respect for my car... scares the $#!@ out of me everyday. DLM has that in the small print, you know, when you pick-up your car...
Just my .02...
twinvipers
Enthusiast
Any 1/4 mile times with just a Supercharger ?
Viperzilla
Enthusiast
When asking about superchargers on Vipers, I doubt you're going to get a bad reply, or one that stands out too much. I've only heard good things about the above three s-c tuners, and every customer loves their tuner's products. I personally know Jason Heffner, owner of Heffner's Performance, and attended most of the VCA events, including those at his old shop. I've ridden in one of his customer's Vipers about 3 years ago. That owner, Mark Cooper, is also a repeat customer. He went back and got another 100+ HP, so that also says something about Jason's product. Whichever way you take, you won't be dissapointed, unless you get bored of the horsepower and want more, which may or may not happen.
{edit}- Most people who buy superchargers also start with some minor mods, then work up. Numbers will be different for almost every car due to so many variables in the performance equipment. Some also use race gas on the dyno, or some may test their s-c with nitrous. Just be sure to look at the numbers, and know what techniques or equipment were used. Also get quotes from the tuner on price and performance.
{edit}- Most people who buy superchargers also start with some minor mods, then work up. Numbers will be different for almost every car due to so many variables in the performance equipment. Some also use race gas on the dyno, or some may test their s-c with nitrous. Just be sure to look at the numbers, and know what techniques or equipment were used. Also get quotes from the tuner on price and performance.
Roe Supercharger here love it, easy to install and easy to take off (not here wont do it) i added the 70MM TB,70MM air box Housing,70MM ST, cost was around $8000 if you want to add Cat Back and headers add like $2830 for Borla cat-back and B&B headers
love it, easy to install and easy to take off (not here wont do it) i added the 70MM TB,70MM air box Housing,70MM ST, cost was around $8000 if you want to add Cat Back and headers add like $2830 for Borla cat-back and B&B headers Ulysses
Enthusiast
Don't forget to mention Dan Cragin of DC performance and Apex Motorsports both sell the Paxton SC, which is smog legal. There are many more tuners that advertise on the links section of this board as well. Don't leave out those folks. Check into all of them and broaden your horizons and your choices.
TomMiriViper
Enthusiast
Many good choices now for supercharger packages. I would seek the individuals who have been doing them for the long term. I know Doug Levin is not the cheapest but you get what you pay for. I know the parts he uses are top notch and he has been sc'ing vipers for many years.
Tom
Tom
Viperzilla
Enthusiast
Heffner has been supercharging cars and Vipers for many years as well, I couldn't tell you how many though. He has had a hobby in drag racing both Mustang (stipped and tubbed) and Vipers. Like Levin, Heffner started modifying stuff before Vipers.
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Ok - drinks down and deck chair put away now. Having spent a few years in the racing game - here's 2 rules i found to work quite well for guys who wanted the best:
1) If you talk to any tuners and they start bad mouthing other tuners telling you why their's is best for you and the others are a POS - be warned. A man whose work stands by itself never needs to do that - NEVER EVER!
2) When customers come and say - "I've been running this system for 2-4 years and never had a major problem, and that is not an isolated case - i.e. a tuner has several customers saying the same thing - years of dependable service - I'D LISTEN. Period.
There may be many good guys out there - but fruit on the tree over a period of time is the best bet for money spent if you don't want to gamble. No flame, no BS, take it for what its worth or ignore it as you wish - it's not my money. Nothing against anyone putting out excellent power and enjoying their ride - but at end of day - years of dependable service is the ultimate test for a daily drive - end of sermon.
1) If you talk to any tuners and they start bad mouthing other tuners telling you why their's is best for you and the others are a POS - be warned. A man whose work stands by itself never needs to do that - NEVER EVER!
2) When customers come and say - "I've been running this system for 2-4 years and never had a major problem, and that is not an isolated case - i.e. a tuner has several customers saying the same thing - years of dependable service - I'D LISTEN. Period.
There may be many good guys out there - but fruit on the tree over a period of time is the best bet for money spent if you don't want to gamble. No flame, no BS, take it for what its worth or ignore it as you wish - it's not my money. Nothing against anyone putting out excellent power and enjoying their ride - but at end of day - years of dependable service is the ultimate test for a daily drive - end of sermon.
Viperzilla
Enthusiast
Good suggestions/comments torque! Good observations.
Paxton-Rep
Enthusiast
Hey People in case you were wondering what the installation of the Paxton Supercharger for your snake consisted of Check out www.paxtonauto.com and go to the download section. In there you can down load the manual for that kit. Have a look.
Thanks
Kelly.
Thanks
Kelly.
Ulysses
Enthusiast
Interesting read, thank you.
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Know what you mean - but those things are really dinosaurs now - the modern supercharger beats the roots design at everything except the old fashioned hole in the hood presence. If you want presence AND ultimate blower performance - you could run a PSI blower - they look a bit like the roots only bigger and better - but you'll fall over when you price them up - it's top shelf.
A PSI could top 2000hp on a V10 with the right combo.... even in modest tune it'd stick out like an acne attack on Jennifer Lopez, but if the Top Fuel look was your thing - it'd work.
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
I think the heffner kit is the one to get. I have heard of significant problems with the Roe kit... check the thread on this board, it seems everyone is having problems with them.
The consensus seems to be the Roe kit is/was $10k after everything is said and done, and that is up where the paxton kit is, which has more power, more potential, and doesn't require gluing your balancer on to keep it from spinning.
Just my .02
The consensus seems to be the Roe kit is/was $10k after everything is said and done, and that is up where the paxton kit is, which has more power, more potential, and doesn't require gluing your balancer on to keep it from spinning.
Just my .02
Vipermed 97.01
Enthusiast
This seems like a pretty unfair and uneducated analysis.First "everyone" is not having problems.we have installed many Roe chargers all of which are running strong trouble free including two of my personal vipers.And as far as requiring "glueing your balancer" Do you think that Doug and Jason are not keying there cranks and what would happen if they didnt.Tunning is everything.can you tell me of anyone who has had problems with the Roe Charger itself short of abuse,most if not all issues were minor tunning issues.This was a system that was introduced to the public as a D.I.Y kit.which was ****** territory and bound to have glitches.I do know that most Roe chargers are out there running strong not to mention putting down some pretty good #s considering this has been out on the market for under a year.As far as paxton, do not confuse Bhp w/rwhp and do you really know the full potential of the Roe unit,I do.Believe it our not there are good things on the horizon for this system.No flame intended here i just think that your .02 is not even close to being justified
Just my .02
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
I disagree Vipermed. My analysis is based on everything I hear, everyone I talk to with various SC kits, and the problems I know to exist with various kits and the responses from the vendors of those kits. Nobody can touch DLM or Heffner in service - period. Nobody can touch them in HP numbers or overall quality either, period.
If you read that thread, every single poster mentioned they had problems "out of the box". It seems fair to say Roe's kit requires tuning before it's ready for prime time. EVERYONE that had Larry Macedo work on their car says he made it run right.
Yes I do think Doug and Jason key the cranks, and if they didn't, I think it could cause the balancer to spin. Roe offers an optional kit to key the crank, and also suggests loctite or threadlocker to keep it in place. Have any balancers spun on the Roe kit to your knowledge? I know the answer to that.
As for the "minor tuning issues", well I followed development pretty closely. At first, most people seemed to report pinging. The "fix" was to retard the boost, which did not seem to really fix the problem. The next "fix" was the VEC2, which apparently has problems burning out (according to Sean's post) if the clips are not either installed with retainers, or changed out. I don't consider those "minor tuning issues". I have yet to hear what exactly the wizards like Macedo and probably yourself actually do to get the kit running smoothly, but it appears that the "self install kit" is more of a "have your regional tech install it" kit, because I have heard everyone seems to get someone else to tune the kit. That is fine, BUT, it changes the cost/benefit ratio. It pushes the kit up to the level of the Paxton kit. My opinion is that the R&D was done by the first batch of customers who bought these. Almost everyone i talk to agrees. Just my uneducated .02 though.
As for the potential of the kit - well, who knows? I don't think anyone can say appropriate R&D was done on the kit. It took months to get everyone running OK. This is of course opinion only, but I do not think that consitutes appropriate R&D. Furthermore, you say the Roe kit is new - the Paxton kit is even newer. DLM is pushing the envelope all the time, and I actually believe that right now Heffner holds the crown for highest HP Viper. Maybe that will change - but those are the way the cards lie now. Maybe the Roe kit has untapped potential - who'se to say others don't also? I know DLM and Heffner are both working on "some very special stuff". What matters is what is available now - I'd never buy based on promises of future wunderment that may never come to fruition.
The bottom line in my OPINION, is that the Roe kit may still have teething issues. The price is misleading, because when everything is said and done, the price is probably more like $10k (not my words - a few folks said that on the other thread). That puts this kit in competition with the Paxton kit. I think Roe and Paxton compete direectly, as does Heffner with his 575 kit. Yes, any buyer should consider ALL aspects of their purchase, but it's kinda nice dropping your car off, and having the manufacturer install the kit for you and know there is a warranty on it and if there is a problem, there is one call to make and one point of responsibility.
There are other differences. The paxton kit has a 3 year warranty, Roe has a 1 year. It is my understanding that the Paxton kit has a superior fuel system, and of course the crank is keyed, and it's installed for $10k. They are also a different design of SC. The Paxton kit is going to be progressive, which IMO is better for a car like Viper with huge torque already.
All IMO of course. You can disagree and say my opinion is biased because I don't like Sean Roe's business practices - and maybe that is partially true, but you're also an installer so you're probably biased too
Let the market decide. I think anyone considering an SC ought to seriously look at Heffner - where for $12k you get what I would consider the best all around deal.
I'm glad people are happy with the various kits they own. I'll be in the market for a kit myself soon - and I have no affiliation with ANY tuner, and if I get a bum rap I'll absoultely be happy to tell folks about it. But until then, I talk to lots of my Viper friends, and word spreads fast, so I base my uneducated opinions on what info my friends educate me with.
If you read that thread, every single poster mentioned they had problems "out of the box". It seems fair to say Roe's kit requires tuning before it's ready for prime time. EVERYONE that had Larry Macedo work on their car says he made it run right.
Yes I do think Doug and Jason key the cranks, and if they didn't, I think it could cause the balancer to spin. Roe offers an optional kit to key the crank, and also suggests loctite or threadlocker to keep it in place. Have any balancers spun on the Roe kit to your knowledge? I know the answer to that.
As for the "minor tuning issues", well I followed development pretty closely. At first, most people seemed to report pinging. The "fix" was to retard the boost, which did not seem to really fix the problem. The next "fix" was the VEC2, which apparently has problems burning out (according to Sean's post) if the clips are not either installed with retainers, or changed out. I don't consider those "minor tuning issues". I have yet to hear what exactly the wizards like Macedo and probably yourself actually do to get the kit running smoothly, but it appears that the "self install kit" is more of a "have your regional tech install it" kit, because I have heard everyone seems to get someone else to tune the kit. That is fine, BUT, it changes the cost/benefit ratio. It pushes the kit up to the level of the Paxton kit. My opinion is that the R&D was done by the first batch of customers who bought these. Almost everyone i talk to agrees. Just my uneducated .02 though.
As for the potential of the kit - well, who knows? I don't think anyone can say appropriate R&D was done on the kit. It took months to get everyone running OK. This is of course opinion only, but I do not think that consitutes appropriate R&D. Furthermore, you say the Roe kit is new - the Paxton kit is even newer. DLM is pushing the envelope all the time, and I actually believe that right now Heffner holds the crown for highest HP Viper. Maybe that will change - but those are the way the cards lie now. Maybe the Roe kit has untapped potential - who'se to say others don't also? I know DLM and Heffner are both working on "some very special stuff". What matters is what is available now - I'd never buy based on promises of future wunderment that may never come to fruition.
The bottom line in my OPINION, is that the Roe kit may still have teething issues. The price is misleading, because when everything is said and done, the price is probably more like $10k (not my words - a few folks said that on the other thread). That puts this kit in competition with the Paxton kit. I think Roe and Paxton compete direectly, as does Heffner with his 575 kit. Yes, any buyer should consider ALL aspects of their purchase, but it's kinda nice dropping your car off, and having the manufacturer install the kit for you and know there is a warranty on it and if there is a problem, there is one call to make and one point of responsibility.
There are other differences. The paxton kit has a 3 year warranty, Roe has a 1 year. It is my understanding that the Paxton kit has a superior fuel system, and of course the crank is keyed, and it's installed for $10k. They are also a different design of SC. The Paxton kit is going to be progressive, which IMO is better for a car like Viper with huge torque already.
All IMO of course. You can disagree and say my opinion is biased because I don't like Sean Roe's business practices - and maybe that is partially true, but you're also an installer so you're probably biased too
Let the market decide. I think anyone considering an SC ought to seriously look at Heffner - where for $12k you get what I would consider the best all around deal.
I'm glad people are happy with the various kits they own. I'll be in the market for a kit myself soon - and I have no affiliation with ANY tuner, and if I get a bum rap I'll absoultely be happy to tell folks about it. But until then, I talk to lots of my Viper friends, and word spreads fast, so I base my uneducated opinions on what info my friends educate me with.
I paid $7000 plus $400 for install.
You do not have to get headers and in fact they only give you 25rwhp.Most S/C cars are going to have headers anyways so its not fair to add that to the S/C price.
After the vec2 install my car runs perfect and every kit comes with the vec2. I stay in contact with many Roe customers. Sounds like you have a personal problem with sean. If I had problems I would be the first to post.
High horsepower is great but the 1/4 mile times are very close between all the S/C's which made my descision easier.
You do not have to get headers and in fact they only give you 25rwhp.Most S/C cars are going to have headers anyways so its not fair to add that to the S/C price.
After the vec2 install my car runs perfect and every kit comes with the vec2. I stay in contact with many Roe customers. Sounds like you have a personal problem with sean. If I had problems I would be the first to post.
High horsepower is great but the 1/4 mile times are very close between all the S/C's which made my descision easier.
King RT10,
You are correct.
Mike does have a "personal problem" and chooses the internet forums to express it rather than calling us directly and resolving a two year old issue.
If anyone would like to know how upgradeable our kit is, what we have planned, or what's now included (such as injector connectors and a crankshaft pin tool), simply contact us or ask on the forum. We will not however attempt to speculate on the limitations of other kits, talk badly about them or compare ours to them with bias.
Regards,
Sean Roe
You are correct.
Mike does have a "personal problem" and chooses the internet forums to express it rather than calling us directly and resolving a two year old issue.
If anyone would like to know how upgradeable our kit is, what we have planned, or what's now included (such as injector connectors and a crankshaft pin tool), simply contact us or ask on the forum. We will not however attempt to speculate on the limitations of other kits, talk badly about them or compare ours to them with bias.
Regards,
Sean Roe
Paxton-Rep
Enthusiast
Just to let you know, the Paxton kit RETAILS 7999.00 now keep in mind, the kit will be cheaper through a dist. network. I would have to say the kit will take approx. 15 hours to install @ say an average of $65.00 dollars an hour so tack that on to your potential lower then Retail price, so say if you were to get the kit for 7200.00, and your labor, you should be at an average price of $8175.00, I would have to say this is a pretty reasonable price for what you get in the kit. I think Paxton, and Roe will targe two different areas of the Market. If you don't know the charecteristics of a Centrifugal, over a Screw, or roots then there should some research to perform. I look forward to the future of what the competition has in store. But if you asked me I believe that both kits are priced close to the same, with almost equal amounts of perofrmnace.
jcaspar1
Enthusiast
"I think the heffner kit is the one to get."
I didn't know that Heffner sold kits. Could you expound on this? If I get a supercharger I will only get one I can install myself.
I didn't know that Heffner sold kits. Could you expound on this? If I get a supercharger I will only get one I can install myself.
Anthony - 98 GTS
Enthusiast
My understanding is that Heffner has sold his set-up in a kit type package. I'm not sure if it was a one time deal - but I know he has done it before.
1TONY1
Enthusiast
I don't know if there is a BEST s/c IMO. If you want to send your car off....there are two directions. If you want DIY or a local tech to do it there are two options. How much can you or do you want to spend ? Price was one concern....another was the sound/noise of the system. I wanted (relative term) a lower price and I wanted a quiet system......I HAD to have DIY.....no one except myself and one friend touches my cars unless it is warranty work and my 96 is only under "tony warranty". To me, Heffner and Levin are somewhat in competition and now Roe and Paxton are in competition. Heffner and Levin are making more hp but have not proven it with much better et's....that may change. I know the Roe numbers and et's are going to be getting better......and this will happen at a faster rate than Heffner or Levin systems simply because if you are at a lower/slower number it is easier to better them. Maybe the same with the Paxton unit. Some Roe cars are already in the mid 700's rwhp and climbing. All three tuner s/c are great, you can't go wrong with any of them. Paxton is yet to be proven on this level but it is a nice looking set up and they know what they are doing.
On the Roe subject:
I would venture to guess that no one has had more problems than me with the Roe s/c. My problems were misfiring and hot cats. Between the vec2, vec2 harness and the injector connectors all is well. Bottom line.... if you get a Roe kit now, there won't be problems like a few had early on. I don't think any stock engined s/c car has laid 1/4 mile numbers down like mine at any boost level. Bang for the buck I will put it up against anything...drag,autocross,driver,whatever.....lets see how well a 800rwhp car s/c or nos car does at an autocross.....might be funny. As far as price.....There are at least three (me and probably more) that will sell and install a Roe system for $7495....complete....total.....guaranteed to be right !! With me that includes pinning the balancer, installing the injector connectors that come with the kit etc. I have even offered an on site install within a 500 mile straight line distance for aproximatly $250 more if someone doesn't have a Roe dealer/installer nearby. I fly in and install at your location.
Also, think about the sound of the system and what you want. I already knew the price so the FIRST question I asked Sean was.....Is it quiet ? I have a D1 Procharger on my f-body (I am a Procharger dealer) and I know first hand how cool/annoying/loud/mean/etc. a centrifical s/c can be. I drive my car A WHOLE LOT. Over 8000 miles on the s/c since November and I did not want the whine. If it was a Saturday night only car the sound would not have been an issue. If you need more attention maybe you would want the noise/whine.
On the Roe subject:
I would venture to guess that no one has had more problems than me with the Roe s/c. My problems were misfiring and hot cats. Between the vec2, vec2 harness and the injector connectors all is well. Bottom line.... if you get a Roe kit now, there won't be problems like a few had early on. I don't think any stock engined s/c car has laid 1/4 mile numbers down like mine at any boost level. Bang for the buck I will put it up against anything...drag,autocross,driver,whatever.....lets see how well a 800rwhp car s/c or nos car does at an autocross.....might be funny. As far as price.....There are at least three (me and probably more) that will sell and install a Roe system for $7495....complete....total.....guaranteed to be right !! With me that includes pinning the balancer, installing the injector connectors that come with the kit etc. I have even offered an on site install within a 500 mile straight line distance for aproximatly $250 more if someone doesn't have a Roe dealer/installer nearby. I fly in and install at your location.
Also, think about the sound of the system and what you want. I already knew the price so the FIRST question I asked Sean was.....Is it quiet ? I have a D1 Procharger on my f-body (I am a Procharger dealer) and I know first hand how cool/annoying/loud/mean/etc. a centrifical s/c can be. I drive my car A WHOLE LOT. Over 8000 miles on the s/c since November and I did not want the whine. If it was a Saturday night only car the sound would not have been an issue. If you need more attention maybe you would want the noise/whine.
