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Hellcat versus Viper transmission

Discussion in 'Generation V Discussions / SRT Coupe, GTS, GTC, AC' started by doctorbob, May 23, 2014.

  1. TrackAire

    TrackAire Enthusiast

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    Peter,
    It has nothing to do with being able to flap the paddles faster than the full auto mode, it's about control. Just like you have control with the stick shift in your Rossion, imagine having more control, quicker, faster, more precisely and with a couple of extra ratios to pick for the job. It's not just about going fast in a straight line, it's about being quicker on the track. More ratios and the ability to control them gives you engine braking when you want it, unsettles the car less on downshifts or in corners and lets you decide when and what you want to do.

    Honest question Peter, have you ever driven a performance car on a road course at the maximum speed of your ability? You really need to bring that Rossion down to one of our private track days and let her run. Keeping a Rossion on the street is like using California Chrome as a petting zoo animal.

    And Peter, on the track it is not important to "I am not a great fan of keeping up with the Joneses mentality"......it is only important to pass them. There are cars that are fast and cars that are quicker. The quicker car finishes in front of the fast car every time on the track.
     
  2. PeterMJ

    PeterMJ Enthusiast

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    I would think the purpose of better control is to achieve better lap times, thus, it seems that these issues are very much related. If full auto gives you better lap time then what exactly what does this mean?

    And not sure why you keep bringing up the Rossion, you do remember I was shopping for a daily driver, right?:D This car is actually set up for street, Rossion makes a track car, Q1R that weighs 500 lbs less than street car, this would be the car to take to the track. If I replaced Viper with Q1R, then yeah, this would certainly be a viable possibility. Tough call though since I do like drop tops. In the meantime, Q1 is a very comfortable street car, maybe even too comfortable. Out of respect for Viper, I do not bring it up around here, does not seem like a right thing to do when Viper is in such predicament.
    .
     
  3. TrackAire

    TrackAire Enthusiast

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    The reality is the Rossion is a very cool car, very fast and because of its low weight, it is very, very track capable. Just because you own the "street" version does not mean it cannot be used on the track and enjoyed it there. I understand if you do not track your cars, but the laws of physics and acceleration are the same whether it is a Q1R, an SRT Challenger or a Viper....they all can be driven on the track, they all have to follow the same parameters of engine rpm, braking, acceleration, etc.

    I am assuming when you talk about full auto, you mean leave the car in "D" and drive it as fast as you can. You can certainly do that, but on the track the "full auto" feature does not know what the track conditions are, traffic ahead of you, how much compression braking you need, the radius of the corner or how you have the car set up. You need to manually pick what gear you want to be in and that will be quicker than leaving the car in "D".

    Please note that all my discussions about the advantage of an "auto" (DCT, or other fast shifting technology) are only regarding the road course. The reality is for the street the Viper has enough power/torque that you could never achieve its full potential safely even if it had a "Three on the tree" three speed manual.

    I'm not sure if you answered the question I posed before, have you tracked a car on a race course before? The street and race course are two vastly different scenarios and how the vehicle behaves on each. A lot of us will be up at Thunderhill next weekend.....let me know if you'd like to be taken around for a few laps at speed in a Viper or other vehicle that we will have access to.

    Cheers,
    George
     
  4. FLL-B/W-GTS

    FLL-B/W-GTS Viper Owner

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    I have been shifting gears on HP cars for 25 years...Still like it for fun/Vipers.. Yes,I have attempted to out shift the PDK in Sport Plus with the paddles on the TS,as a human being,NOT even close..The DCT/PDK does everything perfect every time,that includes racing to just cruising around with everything off ...Like everyone likes to do...

    The Viper would be much faster with immediate up shifts with constant power and the gears being in the correct place all the time..Screwed up many races up missing gears in Snakes..Many more people would buy Viper if they did not have to shift.....

    No one is saying to eliminate manuals in Vipers like Porsche did in it HP cars...
     
  5. PeterMJ

    PeterMJ Enthusiast

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    Hey, all I do is trying to live up by the principles I believe, LOL. You remind me of some of the PCA and SCCA guys I knew long time ago when I was paying my dues in a Porsche shop, swapping transmissions, engines and suspensions on their cars only to see the car back on Monday, on a trailer, right after latest PCA track event, LOL... That was a lot of fun then but after while, you get burned out. I am somewhat aware of the differences between street and track cars and never was a fan of dual purpose cars and I think this is exactly what you have in mind here.

    I would respectfully disagree that car does not know, there is plenty of feedback that is utilized by the car itself, unless you get a car that offers an option to disable it. One of my friends is a former stock car driver and car builder, with a full size shop that includes machine shop and engine dyno, I would say I get to experience a few different things to give me my own perspective on things. There is a good reason why my STREET CAR has no driving aids whatsoever...
     
  6. PeterMJ

    PeterMJ Enthusiast

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    Well, do you think things could be better with Viper if clutch and manual transmission improved somewhat? From my limited experience with Porsche, there is a huge difference between Tremec in Viper and Corvette vs. Getrag. Even the older Porsche 5 speed are still better than the current Tremec.
     
  7. FLL-B/W-GTS

    FLL-B/W-GTS Viper Owner

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    Friend just bought brand new Gen.5 couple days ago(Drove it),first gear way to long,but it is way better than 3 the Vipers I have owned before.Other than that,he trans and clutch are excellent in the Gen 5..
    Never drove a manual Porsche,never wanted one until I saw the quarter mile numbers on the Turbo S...

    Additional,the Silver brand new SRT with black leather he bought for less than 100 large is a outstanding machine....
     
  8. PeterMJ

    PeterMJ Enthusiast

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    Are you serious? I think you should try manual TT, the throw is remarkably short and you can shift with one finger. The shifter on Gen 5 felt better to me than the one on my Gen 4 but it was still notchy somewhat and the throw was still longer than it could be. If you want to buy Gen 5, I can point you right now to 2013 with track pack that you can have brand new for 85k which is truly remarkable deal.
     
  9. Talon

    Talon Viper Owner

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    Vic, it's not about getting "up-to-date" in the world. It's about the thrill of driving. It's everything viper stands for. Vipers SHOULD NOT ever be a Lamborghini or Ferrari...or any luxury, high class sports car. Dodge Viper is unapologetically all about being a sports car. An American, muscle, big block sports car.

     
  10. Talon

    Talon Viper Owner

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    :2tu: :2tu: :2tu:
     
  11. Talon

    Talon Viper Owner

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    To throw in my 2 cents, having an "optional" automatic is fine. (Options don't hurt anybody) True hardcore racing enthusiasts (that do not have a disability) tend to prefer manuals anyway... if you prefer some European paddle shift crap you can take your viper and stuff it in a ditch! No I'm just playing...but seriously is there anything better than the feeling of downshifting and dropping clutches and truly handling every element of a car? That's the stuff life is made of my friends.

    Quick someone let's go drift some corners in our vipers!

    http://youtu.be/MbBjW5ehY7o?t=3m25s
     
  12. wikkid

    wikkid Viper Owner

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    Finally a good answer. The Viper definately needs a new approach, or it will disappear.
     
  13. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Enthusiast

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    We've already established that SRT is not seeking to sell Vipers at volumes that rival that of the Vette or Porsche, and so that argument for having an auto option that MOST Viper buyers will not opt for is null. You've also undermined your point by illustrating the fact that the market is already full of cars that only have a manumatic or automatic available, without a real smooth-shifting manual.

    It's a simple fact that cars with a manual transmission are more engaging, and drivers who want a full driving experience will opt for manual. There are already cars that can beat the Viper in a drag race regardless of whether or not it was equipped with a DCT.

    None of the things you mentioned actually changed the fundamental driving characteristics of the Viper; it just made the car more comfortable. The Gen 5 would probably not have gone over well at all if the creature comforts caused it to sacrifice performance or gave it an insulated, disconnected driving feel like a GT-R. You're also working on the false assumption that SRT is striving for sales due to the car itself. It's not. If they wanted to sell more the only thing they need to do is invest in quality advertising.

    A turbo kit could increase performance, should that be an option? A larger displacement V12 would increase performance...so why not add that to the wish list? There are plenty of automatic snooze-mobiles; the Viper doesn't need to be one of them nor does it need to offer the option to become one.

    That may be the only reasonable thing you've said this entire thread - SRT could not afford to perform the R&D on a DCT transmission and offer it as an option with the low sales volume they have. They would either have to charge a 5-figure amount for the DCT or make it part of some expensive option package...and most people that actually end up buying a Viper are not the kind of people to whom an automatic trans would appeal to. They know this much.

    Options hurt the manufacturer if the car has low sales volume and the option costs a lot to implement, either making an entirely new transmission that would fit in the Viper or re-engineering the existing chassis to accommodate an auto transmission while also retaining compatibility for the manual. Add this to the fact that we can safely state that most Viper buyers (not dreamers who just like the car, people who actually pay the money to own one) would prefer a manual transmission anyway.
     
  14. I Bin Therbefor

    I Bin Therbefor Enthusiast

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    As I recall, the intention was to have the SRT satisfy the traditional Viper buyer and the GTS to capture new buyers and those traditional buyers that were looking for a bit more comfort. All the initial marketing money was to go into racing because the race fan for ALMS (at that time) fit the profile of the new buyers. Although a firm number was never announced, it appeared that something like 1500 to 1700 sales a year were required to meet the business case. A case which was supported at the highest levels within FIAT/Chrysler.
    IMO, the only reason that Viper doesn't have a auto of some sort is that the engineering and possible production cost of fitting one in was not within the budget for the Gen V. FIAT/Chrysler always had access to a ZF box that would handle the HP/Torque issue. Apparently the Viper has very dense chassis packaging and any change of space to permit the fit of the available autos (read ZF) would have a ripple effect in packaging.
    The question is would an auto have had an appreciable impact on the sales, especially to the new buyer or the traditional buyer who no longer owned a Viper but would own a Viper if there was a bit more comfort there?
    I really don't know. What I feel strongly is that Viper had better make their sales projections or no more Viper.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  15. Paul Hawker

    Paul Hawker Enthusiast

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    I believe that most of the SRT folks would love to be able to offer a quick shifting, high performance paddle shifting auto if they could find one that would fit in the Viper chassis, and also handle the torque of the V-10.

    They have paddle shifters in their racing cars, and understand that this is a requirement to run with the big boys.

    As soon as they can find something that will work on the street as well as track, and can make a business case for it, I believe it will be made available as an option, as well as offering the manual transmission as standard.

    Many of the current paddle shifters would never pass Chryslers durability requirements, nor offer a level of cost of ownership for the typical Viper Owner.

    I drove the Dual Clutch, offered by Ferrari in their California model. While fast and smooth, it offered little in the way of driving enjoyment. Around slow parking lots it felt terrible.
     
  16. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Enthusiast

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    The Viper racing car is going to be designed and equipped for maximum performance, and it does not need to meet federal regulations so they have more flexibility as to how they can alter the chassis to fit an auto transmission. The racing version of the viper does not need to stick with any kind of aesthetics, nor does it need to maintain a particular driving character or feel - it just needs to win consistently.
     
  17. texas_venom

    texas_venom Enthusiast

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    Peerblock, Sorry but after a few of your posts I can not handle the crap coming out of your mouth anymore. Sorry to be blunt... but you seem like you dish it so you should be able to handle it... but you come across as a dlck. I have some serious issues with your comments about veterans and "old people". Sorry but this country wouldn't be what it is without either one and you would not have a Viper to drive. If anything its the younger generation who are screwing it up by electing the idiot we have in office and allowing the country to go the direction it has. So how about a little damn respect where its due. Viper sales are in the tank for a reason. Offering an automatic as an option would help out along with other ideas such as making the engine more mod friendly and even having a version without all the electronic crap in it. Don't be a fool and think Viper is happy with their current sales. There are plenty of Gen Vs sitting on the lot that haven't sold because of lack of demand. Sure they may not want to be a mass produced car but they sure as hell want to sell everything they build. More cars sold equals more money in the bank. And your comment on them advertising is a little ridiculous. The Viper has never been highly advertised. It didn't need to be. It led the field in performance and the results sold all the cars they built. Its not like that with the Gen V. They focused more on refining the car as opposed to dominating the field and so they now have a car that is getting beat at the track by cars which cost much less. Hate top say this because I am a Viper fan (and previous owner) but the new Z07 is going to be tough to beat. Once it hits the lots I see the Viper sales lagging even more.

    By the way if you have a problem with anything I said I am more than happy to meet you at an event and we can discuss it face to face.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
  18. Grisoman

    Grisoman Enthusiast

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    Does anyone have actual upshift time improvements (milliseconds) the DCT offers over the typical manual gearbox? I've seen a comparison between the VW DSG (8 ms) and Ferrari Enzo manual (150 ms). Quite a striking difference. But to restate the obvious, a DSG/DCT for the Gen 5 would be a winner OPTION. DSG/DCT is a wonderful technology (based on my experience with a Jetta lol).
     
  19. steve e

    steve e Enthusiast

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    I love everything about the state of Texas:D The people think like I do, what the hell am I doing in this liberal hell hole.:usa: I know off subject , Venom woke me up.:D from the bla bla bla.
     
  20. TrackAire

    TrackAire Enthusiast

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    You are 100% correct about your views and thoughts about PeerBlock. Nearly every argument he makes is a moot point.....what is the best selling Gen 5? The TA model which also happens to have the highest track performance/potential. Hmmm imagine that, the highest performance Viper is also the best seller. God forbid we offer up any thoughts or desires for parts on the car that would make it even faster. With his mentality, we should all still be running run flat tires.

    He will not accept any facts or laws of physics as to why a fast shifting auto with multiple gears has minimal rpm drop as you accelerate. I don't care what he spews, at the end of the day people buy the Viper because it is the performance king (or they believe it to be). A fast shifting auto will keep it there if the Viper owner chooses not to go manual. He only feels that a Viper should have an manual, period....not open for discussion or any other thoughts. I love his excuse that Dodge doesn't want to sell a lot of Vipers, yeah right. If they could sell 5k a year, you don't think they would?

    You can also tell when somebody has zero real world track experience. Peerblock, post up a couple videos of you on a track (drag or road course is fine)......Love to see your driving line. What's that you say, you don't have any?.....bingo another poser that thinks his opinion is the only thing that matters, yet is disrespectful to those that bring up other points (and points that are scientifically valid). You don't have to be a track rat to own a Viper, but not having any clue of performance reality is in PIA when reading his posts and B.S. replies.

    I love it when he posts that a GT-R is not a real driving machine.....has he ever had one on a track with the nannies turned off? Prove me wrong Peerblock. None of the high performance cars available today are exciting to drive on the street (even the Viper) if you are obeying the traffic laws and speed limits. They can only be experienced to their full potential on a track since they have such high levels of performance...no street or road would challenge them.

    He sealed the deal with his disregard to the needs of others by bashing the elderly, Vets, etc. He is so predictable it's painful to read. Hey Peerblock, posted on the Alley or VOA lately....wonder why not? Apparently they don't put up with your B.S.

    Texas Venom, get ready for a 7 page reply that will prove everything you and I are saying about him to be true.

    Cheers,
    George
     
  21. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Enthusiast

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    Do you like dicks?

    Right, right. You're the champion of lazy old liberals who feel entitled to whatever they want and blind supporters of troops - even if said troops were never deployed. I bet you love this bergdahl guy...a real hero...you and bob should buy him a viper, allah willing.

    Wait - who is educating, or rather, indoctrinating the younger generations with liberal propaganda rather than presenting objective facts and encouraging students to decide things for themselves? If you answered OLD PEOPLE like tenured teachers that you just can't fire, then you win! Many old people, and you're probably one of them judging by the fact that you're whining, are deserving of no respect and almost all of the blame for America's current problems.

    Wow, you must also be a liberal since you're asking for a handout rather than earning it. lol Are you one of the scrubs that voted straight democrat in California until it fell to where it is now, then bailed to Texas because the more conservative fiscal policies have resulted in a superior state economy and lower taxes? Probably.

    You and the others who lack the ability to count past 5 seem to be unable to realize that for SRT to offer a variety of "flavors" means they have to risk more capital. Their strategy of dumping all of their ad dollars into racing was a mistake; if they wanted to sell more they should have used better advertising.

    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE GEN 5 AS IT IS NOW. IT IS NOT SELLING BECAUSE MANY POTENTIAL BUYERS DO NOT EVEN KNOW IT EXISTS!

    This has not changed since it was released.

    That's called resting on your laurels, which means that you think past success somehow guarantee future success. The Gen 5 is better in all categories than all previous Vipers and it is highly competitive with other vehicles in its price range...but since the Viper has not been for sale for several years, combined with the fact that they decided to rebrand it from "Dodge" to "SRT" means that they are not communicating its availability well.

    From what I've seen, the Z07 is not going to blow the doors off the Viper...and plus the new Vette is so ugly, it may as well be a hybrid. Speaking of hybrids, it figures a liberal would be in favor of the big-government backed GM, which costs taxpayers millions each year that it stays in business.

    Pretty sure it was you who had a problem with something I said. My time is important - what do I gain by spending the time to meet you face to face? If I want to listen to a liberal I don't need to go far; they're everywhere.

    Just thought you'd like to know that "moot" means "debatable", and that's exactly what we're doing. What is your mentality? Jump on a bandwagon and cry if someone disagrees? If you think my argument is invalid you've have plenty of time to dispute it.

    What is "power shifting", Alex?

    I didn't buy my Viper for that reason. Do you presume that you speak for everyone now? No, you speak for yourself.

    If they wanted to sell 5K or more Vipers per year, they'd probably not hand-assemble them for starters. There is no evidence that the lack of an auto trans is the sole primary reason that the Viper sales are sluggish.

    In fact, as I've stated before, the poor advertising combined with the crappy economy we have (thanks to old people who think social security, pensions and medicare are all things they should have) is more than likely causing a niche vehicle like the Viper to have low sales volumes.

    I'd say the poser is the old fart who occasionally drives his car on the track, believing it it to make him a pro racer. Most race car drivers drive by feel, not by having a keen understanding of the vehicles' mechanics or physics. Your wacky theories about auto transmissions are as intellectually bankrupt as your idea driving on a race track qualifies you AND disqualifies others from discussing a mutually owned vehicle.

    Another idiotic comment. Who pays over $100K for a GT-R, whose selling point is its electronic helpers, then disables them to prove how "pro" he is? Do you feel proud to be the only member of that club?

    Totally false - we can see that we're dealing with a special kind of ignorance here, the kind that only old age can produce.

    Who else thinks that the Viper isn't fun to drive unless it's "at it's limits" on a track? Raise your hands, folks.

    Ahh, typical liberal rhetoric - the first amendment is fine as long as you say what I like and agree with. Anyone who benefits from the first amendment, like this forum and the internet in general, should have to honor it.

    If by true you mean correct, then yes, what I've said is correct regardless of whether or not you agree.
     
  22. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    Why empower him by responding. He is obviously young; has not served his country in uniform; has no significant experince in racing a Viper in any context and does not demonstrate precision in his reading of posts as shown by some obvious errors in his responses. So just take his posts for what they are - the equivalent of Internet email spam and put him on ignore. That is what I have done. Let's try to get back to the topic of this thread.

    The Hellcat at six speed is a Viper six speed with some torque related modifications. This suggests that the torque of the Hellcat engine will be higher than the 600 ft lbs of the Gen V Viper engine and come in much earlier on the curve which would be consistent with the torque curbe of the type of supercharger utilized.



     
  23. TrackAire

    TrackAire Enthusiast

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    MootBlocker,

    So when will you grace us with a video of your driving expertise? Simple question but you give no answer or proof you know dick of what you're talking. Hell, at this point I'd even concede if you showed you knew how to change a tire on a Viper. You're proving your ignorance of driving dynamics by claiming only your view or mentality is correct. You prove your inexperience even further regarding your GT-R statement. The latest GT-R to set the Ring time of about 7:08 was done without the nannies and took a tremendous amount of driver skill from the German pro driver who did it. Then again, if you even knew who that driver was or listened to his comments about the difficulty of driving the GT-R at those high levels, you still wouldn't get it so don't bother to educate yourself.

    You blame Viper sales on a bad economy.....$100k plus Range Rovers and Porches are having no issues getting sold (as are the Gen 5 TA's), yet there is a bad economy? Maybe bad for you but there appears to be no issue with people spending a lot of money on a lot of vehicles that are at or above a new Vipers price range. My debate isn't so much will the auto trans sell more Vipers, it is strictly performance orientated. And as sales records show, the highest performing Viper is selling the best. Or look at the new McLaren....people are trading in their 12c's for the new 650s which comes in at a hefty price increase. Yeah, the economy is so bad, lol.

    Power shifting on a road course....brilliant!! Why hadn't I thought of that?....:smirk:

    You honestly think that CAP couldn't produce 5000 units a year if the demand was there?.....If they can't build 11 cars per shift and work two shifts a day they might as well shut the doors now. If they were selling 5000 units a year (which really is a small amount of cars) Chrysler would be ecstatic.

    You keep thinking this has something to do with free speech and your ability to say whatever the hell you want. You can, but expect to get called out every time you make a disrespectful or mechanically stupid statement. You can't help yourself Mootblocker, history always repeats itself.

    Face it, it's only a matter of time before this forum turns out for just like your VOA and Alley experience.

    Cheers,
    George
     
  24. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Enthusiast

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    - Most Americans do not join the military and neither did you, so what does that have to do with anything as it pertains to the Viper? Hint: nothing.

    - Unless someone is paying you to race (thus implying that you are THAT good), what you do on the track doesn't count.

    - If we did race on a track, I'd beat you, and you'd probably cry and/or soil your depends.

    - If my responses are full of "obvious errors", why did you feel the need to go full liberal and dodge the topic rather than actually replying and "correcting" said "errors".

    - Oh that's right, because you were attempting to use handicaps/disabilities as a justification for the Viper to offer an automatic trans - you also championed the initiative to have braille installed on all drive-thru ATMs. Bravo.

    - Is it hot in here or did the climate change?
     
  25. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    I always enjoy when the "argument" against DCT boils down to someones manliness.

    If shifting defines you being a man, thats a shame.

    Again: DCT in the Viper would help sell cars without a doubt. I'd trade mine in for one with DCT in a heartbeat.
     
  26. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Enthusiast

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    You can claim that I don't know what I'm talking about, like Jacky B did, and then get mad when I shut you down with knowledge, like Jacky B did, and run off to another forum because you want to be "the smart guy" even though you're not...but none of that is actually disputing anything I said.

    If you're so adamant that I am wrong, why don't you stop asking me for videos and simply prove me wrong by explaining what you believe is correct? Can't do it, huh? Is it because you are still using a manual keyboard and it's too difficult for you to type? If only they had an automatic keyboard that just types stuff for you...

    Oh wow, another brilliant assessment. Do you give out stock tips? Man, I bet you rake in a million a day with your keen insights into markets and the economy. Range Rovers sell but the Viper doesn't - and they are both the same type of vehicle, right? I mean one is a luxury SUV that can be used for daily commuting purposes, haul cargo and passengers, etc...the Viper can do all of that making this the PERFECT comparison.

    You know, I think they're still selling houses for MORE than $100K so why isn't anyone buying my old shoes for $50K - I mean that's basically giving them away.

    Please direct me to the documents put out by any official from SRT or Chrysler where they explained their sales targets for the Viper along with their actual sales figures. I'd just like to be on the same page as you, and it seems like you got your hands on some information that I did not.

    You didn't? I mean, is there some difference between power shifting on a drag strip vs the straight away on a road course? I guess I've been doing it wrong all this time...all those races I won -- I wasn't supposed to, because power shifting on a road course just isn't possible, according to the "highly experienced racing car expert".

    Right, because those workers are practically working for free...assembly line robots are not a member of any labor union and therefore do not collect bloated wages, healthcare plans and pensions.

    Yeah, you called me out and ended up making yourself look like the ignorant fool that you are. So what's your point?

    Hmm...keep referencing sites that I don't use and never have used. This is really the only viper related forum that I post on...and I post when I have some downtime. You know, I'm working and that occupies a lot of my time - a foreign concept to someone like you who expects everything be given to them.
     
  27. TrackAire

    TrackAire Enthusiast

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    Vacaville, California
    Now I don't know if we should call you Mootblocker or Spinblocker......

    Love the way you only answer parts of questions that you try to sort out in your mind.
    -Bad economy....you forgot about the Porsche part of the example. The reality is there is a lot of money out there and people are spending it, unfortunately not enough on Gen 5's.
    -Power shifting....yeah, can't wait to see your video on that one. You just claimed you've won all these races....post one result (doesn't have to be a video) of what you've won. Come on, I'm making easy for you.
    -Who is talking about robotic assembly lines? Vipers have been hand built and will probably continue to be since they build so few.....you bring up robots? WTF are you talking about? We can't build 11 Vipers per shift? Stop spinning the answer and realize that Chrysler would love to sell more cars than they projected (I believe the number was 2500 when the Gen 5 was first thrown around).

    I'm not telling you that you can't have your beloved manual.....just don't tell me I can ask for a DCT. Pretty simple concept, yet you want to make it seem you're way is the only way. Get over yourself. The Viper has been evolving and is nothing like the original. If it stays in production it will continue to change.

    So answer these three questions with a yes or no answer:

    Would a Gen 5 Viper with a DCT be faster in the 1/4 mile than the current 6 speed manual?

    Would a Gen 5 Viper be faster on a road course (lets assume with the best pro driver in the world or the worst track day warrior.....you pick) with a DCT than the current 6 speed manual?

    Is the Gen 5 TA in higher demand the the Gen 5 GTS?

    For the sake of your mental stability, lets just assume that this DCT fits in the Viper, shifts better than any other DCT known to man and is more reliable than the sun.

    Anybody want to bet he can't answer with a yes or no answer?

    And this little gem: "You know, I think they're still selling houses for MORE than $100K so why isn't anyone buying my old shoes for $50K - I mean that's basically giving them away."
    Yup, you did it, you stumped me. You don't get economic advice and examples like that for free everyday.....

    Cheers,
    George
     
  28. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Enthusiast

    Posts:
    460
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2013
    65 going on 5. Do you have a "no girls allowed" sign on your garage too?

    Porsche advertises, Porsche did not rebrand itself after going on a 5 year hiatus and Porsche most likely has a larger operating budget than SRT. Note that I never said that people would not buy a Viper and there was never any dispute that people are buying expensive toys - but not if they don't know about them. SRT's decision to focus Viper promotion almost exclusively on races and not doing aggressive media campaigns to raise awareness of the Viper and the "new SRT brand" are the key reasons Vipers are just sitting there.

    It's the job of the marketing dept to make people want something they don't need and probably can't afford. Apple has perfected this, at least prior to steve jobs' death.

    Jeez man, you need to stop asking for "racing videos" like that...it's just creepy. Do you sneak around peoples' houses at night with a go-pro helmet and peep into their bedrooms to make your own "racing videos"? Wrong forum.

    Seems like you missed the point - unsurprisingly - that if SRT wanted to ramp up "hand built" Viper production, their costs would scale a lot more aggressively than if they moved the Viper to an assembly line...like Porsche and Corvette. In other words, it would be cost-prohibitive to hand-build larger quantities of Vipers even if they had the ability to do so.

    Wait, what? Nobody said you couldn't ask...ask away. I'm disputing the reasoning for it.

    You, and others, are greatly overstating the value of an auto trans. It may be the tiebreaker in professional racing, but for old guys who occasional take their mid-life crisis to the race track, it's hardly going to make a difference.

    Possibly, but since the Viper is not a dragster this is quite irrelevant.

    Depends on the track; a track that requires frequent shifting may tip the scales in favor of the DCT. A track that is mainly comprised of long stretches where shifting is less frequent, the manual would be equal or better.

    Note the correlation between the TA getting more positive publicity than the GTS...although you have not provided those official SRT sales documents that I'm guessing you have, since you know all these things.

    The GTS and TA will be neck and neck except when pushed to their limits, and the GTS can be modded with the same upgrades that the TA has.
     
  29. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

    Posts:
    2,551
    Joined:
    May 18, 2001

    Completely agree. I am sure there were more than a few buyer that chose not to go Viper because of no DCT option. I just don't see a downside to a DCT "option" except that maybe it outsells the manual equipped Vipers. There is no chance the Viper will ever be offered without a manual anytime soon even if the demand for DCT is more than for the manual.

    No one wants to see that happen but the DCT option is a no-brainer if more customer sales are what you are after. Im pretty sure that if a DCT were offered they most likely would have gotten much closer to their target 2k - 2.5k sales figures in spite of the silly marketing decissions etc. Oh and a vert with DCT? That would be money in the bank for Chrysler imho.
     
  30. TrackAire

    TrackAire Enthusiast

    Posts:
    1,523
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2009
    Location:
    Vacaville, California

    Predictable again....you can't even answer a simple yes or no question.

    Your idea of a scale up in costs to build 11 Vipers per shift is laughable....you have no clue what the costs are to automate an assembly line to robotic vehicle assembly.

    You side step the economy issue again....doesn't matter if you're selling Porsches, RR, Bentley, Jags, etc.....if the money is not their they will not sell. Rolls Royce and Bentley have had they best records in recent years, a new fully loaded Ram Diesel 4x4 is running close to $70k and they are selling. The economy idea of why the Viper is not selling is incorrect. Marketing, advertising, lack of "perceived" performance, etc maybe, but not the economy.

    Cheers,
    George
     

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