It's getting harder to maintain my enthusiasm...

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Bruce H.

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I've been very optimistic and enthusiastic about the premium upgrade design goal for the Gen V, reading all of the info I could find through its pre-release, and recently some new owner feedback. I was initially disappointed to read Randy Pobst's comments about the handling of the pre-production car at Laguna Seca, and then relieved to hear how the SRT tweaks rectified those issues. I've also been a little concerned about build quality, and constantly hearing how they had to build the car on a shoe-string budget doesn't instill confidence. While the TA beating the ZR1 was impressive, that didn't factor into my wanting the car at all, nor does it help with my mounting concerns. SRT with Track Pack is what I've narrowed it down to, and it's at a price I felt was fair and affordable for me.

But what's making me doubt that value and desirability is the way SRT and dealers are handling their customers. Taking deposits with no apparent intention of filling those orders on a timely basis while building unsold cars to sit on dealer lots, and some dealers price gouging to the point customers won't buy the ones that are built, all reflect so poorly that it's difficult to see that the price paid is buying a premium vehicle, from a premium brand, or from a dealer network commited to premium customer service. Chrysler and Dodge established their lacking reputation for build quality and customer service over decades, and if they're hoping to differentiate the Viper and SRT from their other offerings in that regard they're not off to a very good start.

So I'm holding off purchasing one until I see if SRT will turn things around and take steps to make the ownership experience a positive one, and one worthy of a premium brand and price.
 

jsquared

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Not that I am in the market for one, but if I was, I would have the same feeling as you Bruce. A while ago, someone posted an article about Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, etc. and questioned why SRT was not mentioned in the article. I think my response to it back then speaks directly to what you are talking about. I searched for the thread and read my response over. The funny thing is, my thoughts back then are EXACTLY what is happening right now with the SRT Viper.

Here was my 2 cents and a proposed solution:

Why is SRT not mentioned in that? I think the answer is because they are not a luxury car manufacturer. Their employees are not educated on how to cater to the luxury buyers. They make low to mid range priced vehicles (with the exception of the SRT products), with customers typically expecting just an overall good sales experience and a good deal. Purchasing a Dodge Dart for under $16k is a different experience than purchasing a BMW 650ci for over $100k. And when purchasing a $100k car, I want a $100k treatment. This difference in experience is the fault of the dealership and employees and their lack of knowledge in the luxury market.

The solution to compete with luxury brands? Simple. Build designated SRT only dealerships.

Modern, state of the art, experience centers where you could test drive a Viper and not have a sales person turn you away and tell you "We don't give test drives on Viper's". I have purchased a few higher end vehicles in my years and never have been told at BMW or Mercedes or Porsche that we need to write a deal up prior to a test drive. Grow up. Take the persons license, sign an insurance waiver, and let people experience the car. Emotional attachment is more significant than price. When they experience the Viper and that grin takes their face ear to ear, that $20k over budget feeling is thrown out the window. Train employees in dealing with up scale customers. Go out of your way to make their experience delightful. Sales people need to look more presentable and fashionable. Serve fresh fruit and lattes in the service areas and not donuts and ****ty coffee. They just need to bring some up scale details into their game before they even get the respect from these luxury buyers they are attempting to cater to. People dropping $100k+ on a vehicle want exclusive treatment. Buying a SRT Viper for $150k with a salesman with a stain on his shirt, slurping on some coffee, at some old *** looking dealership, with 10 Dart's sitting there is not luxurious (no offense to the Dart, as I think it's awesome and a huge step up for Dodge).

They just need to market and represent the SRT products, as SRT products. Not Dodge. Isn't that their intent anyways?
 

NI-KA

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It appears that the main concern surrounds the dealer in the above posts.

There appear to be a number of known reputable Viper Dealers that regularly sell Vipers why not stick to those dealers?

Granted local dealers have a certain appeal but even the "luxury" brands mentioned above are not necessary located everywhere.
Especially if you are living in a smaller market.

Just a thought.
 

ViperSmith

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I mean, I was told I'd have the car in March. It will be June in a few weeks and I know I am still a ways from being built. I don't want the car in July. Lost 4 awesome months of driving this year.

My first "buy American" experience has been a disappointment.

Dealership experiences have been a bust (local ones) - nothing has really changed with SRT, like it or not, as snobby as it sounds, they are still dodge dealers and selling like they would a $15,000 car.
 

ViperSmith

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Sorry it's not working out for you...hopefully they can get their act together for you to actually receive a Viper one day. :dunno:
I figure ill sit back and wait till 2015 and try again. Hopefully it is sorted by then. I am disappointed, I have really been looking forward to the car. I've driven hundreds of miles to see them In person.
 

Paul Hawker

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Forum induced anxiety is rampant, and causes these reasonable feelings.

Guess it is up to each person to make their purchase decisions, but using forum items to decide is often a source of frustration.

Some Dodge dealerships indeed give a first class buying experience, but just as many are still stone age facilities. There is a movement to upgrade that experience, but many dealerships are highly resistant to the change.

Some of these issues have already been addressed by SRT. If you want to handle their cars, you must first pony up some $$, get your people trained, stock some parts, and buy speciality equipment that are necessary to service Vipers.

SRT has made a run of cars that are to be specifically used to by dealerships to give demo drives, and allow prospective purchasers the chance to touch and feel before ordering. They often have a SRT specialist, also trained, and with the enthusiasm and experience to make the buying experience great.

Often this is undone by an old school buyer, that simply comes to the dealership to beat up on them to get only the rock bottom price. They care nothing about service, latte's, flat screen TV's, and a nice looking showroom.

While things are evolving pretty fast, it will take some time as the marketplace decides whether the lowest price, or best service will be most accepted by the buying public.

Yes, I know that everyone wants the absolutely highest level of service, but not all are willing to write the bigger check to get it.

Bet this drives the dealerships crazy.
 

ViperSmith

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Not that I am in the market for one, but if I was, I would have the same feeling as you Bruce. A while ago, someone posted an article about Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, etc. and questioned why SRT was not mentioned in the article. I think my response to it back then speaks directly to what you are talking about. I searched for the thread and read my response over. The funny thing is, my thoughts back then are EXACTLY what is happening right now with the SRT Viper.

Here was my 2 cents and a proposed solution:

Why is SRT not mentioned in that? I think the answer is because they are not a luxury car manufacturer. Their employees are not educated on how to cater to the luxury buyers. They make low to mid range priced vehicles (with the exception of the SRT products), with customers typically expecting just an overall good sales experience and a good deal. Purchasing a Dodge Dart for under $16k is a different experience than purchasing a BMW 650ci for over $100k. And when purchasing a $100k car, I want a $100k treatment. This difference in experience is the fault of the dealership and employees and their lack of knowledge in the luxury market.

The solution to compete with luxury brands? Simple. Build designated SRT only dealerships.

Modern, state of the art, experience centers where you could test drive a Viper and not have a sales person turn you away and tell you "We don't give test drives on Viper's". I have purchased a few higher end vehicles in my years and never have been told at BMW or Mercedes or Porsche that we need to write a deal up prior to a test drive. Grow up. Take the persons license, sign an insurance waiver, and let people experience the car. Emotional attachment is more significant than price. When they experience the Viper and that grin takes their face ear to ear, that $20k over budget feeling is thrown out the window. Train employees in dealing with up scale customers. Go out of your way to make their experience delightful. Sales people need to look more presentable and fashionable. Serve fresh fruit and lattes in the service areas and not donuts and ****ty coffee. They just need to bring some up scale details into their game before they even get the respect from these luxury buyers they are attempting to cater to. People dropping $100k+ on a vehicle want exclusive treatment. Buying a SRT Viper for $150k with a salesman with a stain on his shirt, slurping on some coffee, at some old *** looking dealership, with 10 Dart's sitting there is not luxurious (no offense to the Dart, as I think it's awesome and a huge step up for Dodge).

They just need to market and represent the SRT products, as SRT products. Not Dodge. Isn't that their intent anyways?

Ha. Funny about the pre qualified. I just left a Chevy dealer looking at a USED Z06, guy tells me I need to prequalify before test driving.

At Porsche yesterday the dealer was begging me to test a car twice the price.

They just don't get it.
 

SSGNRDZ_28

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I don't think this is an SRT only issue, GM had the same sort of delays with the Camaro ZL1. Long story short I own a Viper now.

But I think to be one of the first to own a brand new build of a car you have to expect delays / teething issues of some sort. Just my $.02
 

ViperSmith

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And my comments I make are, I hope SRT listens. This is a $100,000 toy. I expect to be treated better. I expect to have communication of delays.

If I kept my customers in the dark like I've been, they would be going absolutely insane.

I hope Ralph takes note and does something about it. I want SRT to do well. But, they will have to wait to earn business from me now.

He was at Moparlooza today, 2 minutes from my house. I'd have gone and chatted with him, but I don't have much constructive advice to give at this moment.

I've been understanding so far, but I am just tired of it.
 

ACRucrazy

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I saw this same thing on cumminsforum. Ram lost several 2013 3500 orders to Ford, Chev and 2012 Rams because of delays and lack of communication/answers.

I told myself it wil be June before these things really get rolling. I don't have one on order, but if I did I would be getting a bit impatient too.

Communication goes a LOOOOONNNNG way. Especially to your "halo brand" customers. Some spending 50% more on a Viper than the previous model.

I like Ralph a lot. He's gotta be one of the coolest mother 'fers in the industry who has an awesome job. Come on man. Throw these guys a ****. This is your baby, I can't think of one other place on the internet that has more activity, excitement and chatter about the Gen V. You should be using that for your advantage!
 

jsquared

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At Porsche yesterday the dealer was begging me to test a car twice the price.

They just don't get it.

With the experience I have had with Porsche, I have to agree. I remember going in to look at a new 911 Turbo a couple years back and having a fantastic experience. The first concern the salesman had was, "have you driven one?". Without a single chatter about price, are you leasing, financing, are you trading your car in, etc... I was behind the wheel of a $150k+ vehicle. No concern over, "Oh, we cant put mileage on a brand new car." They made me test braking, acceleration, handling, etc. They cared about how I felt about the vehicle and how I liked the vehicle. One time I went to go see a Viper (before I purchased mine) and I said I want to see how it drives. The response was, "Well, its got 500HP, so its fast." I could give a **** about the HP if I don't like the drive.

It is just a different caliber of education the sales people are exposed to.
 

Smog Dog

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I am canceling my order tomorrow.

Tired of waiting. On to other things. Wife likes the new 911.

Harold I hate to see you do this, after all the anticipation and waiting. Is your dealer a big one? Have you called and put on any pressure? I know Conner is cranking the cars out a lot faster the last 2 weeks, and I know they are building a lot of white cars now. I think you are very close. Before I would buy the 911, I would hang in until a white one comes available online and then try to work something out to get that car. There was someone on the forum who wanted to cancel a white SRT because of financial reasons. That car was on order from Roanoke. You might want to call John Gastman and see what he knows and can do....Good Luck, and don't buy that 911.

Bill
 

Bruce H.

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I am canceling my order tomorrow.

Tired of waiting. On to other things. Wife likes the new 911.

That's unfortunate, and may have been preventable with a little more care on their part. In my case there is no other car that I'm interested in enough to purchase. I even considered lifting my lifetime ban on buying GM product, but the new Stingray just isn't THAT appealing. Two weeks ago I took extensive photos of my 2010 XKR vert and pristine '94 Supra TT to place Autotrader ads. Couldn't decide which one to part with so thought I'd see which sold first and keep the other. I'll save those photos for now, and give Ralph's team more of a chance to pull one out of the hat. And if they include adequate roll over protection on the up-coming vert like their European competition I'll have two models to choose between.

I should mention that a local SRT dealer was recommended, and I was impressed with the owner when we met. He took me on a tour of his facilities, and introduced me to the mechanic that does all of the Viper servicing. I would have no concern about buying from that dealer unless he tried to **** me on price. That would surely place him and SRT on my lifetime ban list.
 

Policy Limits

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legitimate concerns. This is the first supercar I've built to spec in my lifetime and its been a frustrating game of patience, uncertainty and speculation. My salesman is great and responsive but the factory handling is off. In their defense, it must be difficult to come back out of bankruptcy and open a factory after 33% of a decade of closure & inactivity; carb certification put them behind; quality control issues surfaced in the CEO's cross country ride to market the vehicle. These variables are explainable and understandable to a certain extent, not to mention that its a low production hand built car.

But I totally understand where Vipersmith is coming from. I don't intend to cancel my order but I've considered it. I'm anticipating getting the car in July at this point which causes frustrating thoughts of how I will have missed at least 1/2 of the season and how 2014 models will be out 60-90 days from there.

I looked at a 991 C4S Cabrio...if you are switching to Porsche, this is the one you should get; same price range as a fully optioned GTS and a nice daily driver. I myself just picked up a brandy new Granturismo Sport right off the Maserati dealership showroom floor since I refuse to wait months on end for a new toy that I promised myself this season back at xmas time. I'm gonna hang in there on the Gen V order but I'll understand if guys jump ship.
 

SADVIPER

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So I'm just gonna copy my post from another thread :p
Dear SRT,
Remember last year, all the press releases and promises? The October deposits? The VCA priority? The Q/A sessions.. What the **** happened to you guys? So much for better customer experience! Being silent gets us into limbo. Ralph used to toy with different news and promises but now ... Dear me! People cancelling their orders is a big issue and especially at this point. I dont know what was the use of the deposit because there is no priority at all. Red cras with LE already built while orders with options are a gazellion! Twitter announcements favoured on this forum, too many cars already sitting on lots.. No plans to announce next model, international selling, newer options..? As said some places have small driving season and one cant wait more than a year to drive a last year model! I'm really feeling being let down by SRT I know I appreciate all what they did but now they have been ******** up, sadly.
That really saddens lots of us.
 

ViperSmith

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That's unfortunate, and may have been preventable with a little more care on their part. In my case there is no other car that I'm interested in enough to purchase. I even considered lifting my lifetime ban on buying GM product, but the new Stingray just isn't THAT appealing. Two weeks ago I took extensive photos of my 2010 XKR vert and pristine '94 Supra TT to place Autotrader ads. Couldn't decide which one to part with so thought I'd see which sold first and keep the other. I'll save those photos for now, and give Ralph's team more of a chance to pull one out of the hat. And if they include adequate roll over protection on the up-coming vert like their European competition I'll have two models to choose between.

I should mention that a local SRT dealer was recommended, and I was impressed with the owner when we met. He took me on a tour of his facilities, and introduced me to the mechanic that does all of the Viper servicing. I would have no concern about buying from that dealer unless he tried to **** me on price. That would surely place him and SRT on my lifetime ban list.

More than anything, my excitement has petered out. I switch cars every 1-2 years and it worries me I am bored with it before I got it.

If someone had correctly level set expectations, I may be at a different conclusion. For my customers, under promising and over delivering has paid dividends.

Sadly, SRT has over promised and under delivered. I'd have been more accepting of delays if they had communicated better. Ralph loves Twitter, he should have been using it to inform us of what is going on. If anything, it would have made us feel like more "part" of the process.

Hopefully SRT will be listening, I want the Viper to have a nice full life. The 96 GTS got me to fall in love with cars.
 

Torquemonster

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I wonder if part of the problem is that in order for SRT to be satisfied the level of build quality is right, production speed has been unable to meet expectations to date? If that is true, perhaps as these bottlenecks are fixed production speed will improve noticeably?

I also agree with Paul. If I were a salesman it would irritate the **** out of me to deal with customers going septic arguing over the last $2-3k of profit on a $110k car. That kind of penny pincher must have a backside as watertight as a fish. IMHO when we earn good money it's a privilege to share the love a little as long as the deal is reasonable, rather than agonize over a few bucks. That makes the world go around

As for the delays - I agree that communication is key.... it must however be embarrassing for them to have to keep adjusting their dates.... but that is their problem and honesty is a virtue. I believe most buyers can handle the truth better than being treated like a mushroom. To be fair to SRT I imagine so much is out of their control and corporate politics prevents them being able to give an open answer. That has to **** for them as much as waiting customers
 

TrackAire

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More than anything, my excitement has petered out. I switch cars every 1-2 years and it worries me I am bored with it before I got it.

If someone had correctly level set expectations, I may be at a different conclusion. For my customers, under promising and over delivering has paid dividends.

Sadly, SRT has over promised and under delivered. I'd have been more accepting of delays if they had communicated better. Ralph loves Twitter, he should have been using it to inform us of what is going on. If anything, it would have made us feel like more "part" of the process.

Hopefully SRT will be listening, I want the Viper to have a nice full life. The 96 GTS got me to fall in love with cars.


God I wish there was an easy answer to all this. I'm not sure the Facebook and Twitter way of communicating really is personal enough for the upscale SRT buyer and I'm not just talking about the Viper. The Jeep SRT and Challenger SRT, etc cars are all probably going to be at least $45K to $69k plus tax and license. That's Cadillac money for a Jeep SRT8!! I'm on emails all day as part of business and life, the last thing I want to do is spend time with Facebook and Tweets that are little blurbs and semi-sentences. I just want information so I can make my life decisions.

Communication is key. As a past VCA member and now enthusiast, SRT has access to my email. Why wouldn't we get emails to any new Viper or SRT news.....good or bad?. (especially to all you new Gen 5 owners that are waiting for your new car to arrive) If there are issues with the new Viper that delay the release, post it up. Most people that are in the position to buy a Viper know a little about business. $hit happens, it's how you communicate with your customer that keeps him in the know, lets him know you haven't forgotten about him and makes him appreciate the challenges you're going through to supply him his product. Doesn't matter if you're selling Vipers or widgets, keeping the buyer in the loop is 90% of the battle to keeping him as a loyal customer.

About 6 months ago my daughter had a doctors appointment in Walnut Creek, California. I drove her there in my old 1991 Suburban (it is so plain and okie looking, homeless people don't even ask me for money at stoplights, lol). She was dressed like a normal 18 year old, I was in a old T shirt and ratty shorts. After the appointment, we drove by the local Jaguar and Land Rover dealership and I pulled in to show her the Land Rover LR4 and that I really liked it as a possible daily driver. We also looked at and spent time in a limited edition Jaguar XKR. The salesman offered to let us drive either the Jag (even though it was inside the showroom) or any of the SUV's. I told the salesman we're just looking today, my daughter has a 2004 Disco and I'm impressed with the car and how it drives and might get a Land Rover for myself in the future. He took my name, email and we were on our way home. About 3 weeks later, I get an invite (via email) to sign up for a day of driving the new Jags at a naval base and have food and drink in the process. You got to test drive all the new 2013 models, etc. Great way to expose your customers to new products and develop long term buyers and relationships. SRT should really do 8 or 9 of these events around the country. First demographic I would probably target are all the current Viper owners (all reachable because of dmv records).....just a thought.

There is an old saying "Treat your customer the way you want to be treated".....which is wrong. Our company motto is "Threat your customer how they want to be treated". The way to find out how they want to be treated is communication. You ask questions and you listen. Now you know what they expect and what it will take to keep them happy. I find it hard to believe that SRT doesn't have at least one person savvy enough to stay in communication with future Gen 5 buyers, at least via email with updates, answers, etc.

Cheers,
George
 

chorps

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The worst part I see about this is that ViperSmith has ordered a car. Not potentially a buyer, he is an owner in waiting. And waiting. And waiting. This is supposed to be the top product in SRT and Chrysler's lineup. The halo car. Why isn't there a point of contact from SRT that keeps the custom ordered vehicle owners apprised of what's going on? For 100-150k vehicle I'm kind of dismayed at the disorganization that appears to be going on (admittedly only as a spectator here though).

I'm not dismayed that that there are problems, there are ALWAYS going to be problems, but how those problems are dealt with are what makes or breaks a customer's loyalty to the product/company.

To be honest, Ralph should have a list of all the owners who are being put on hold. He should know that he's two minutes away from ViperSmith's door and he should have called to drop by, even if it's just to apologize. Viper owners are supposedly the ambassadors to the brand, and the VCA is supposed to have a closer relationship to the SRT/Chrysler than anywhere else, but right now I'm not feeling the love for my Gen V brothers and sisters who are in a holding pattern.

It doesn't affect me personally, I've got my car, but I just want to see Ralph/SRT/Chrysler do the best under tough circumstances, and I'm just seeing the same old corporate line. :p And Paul is correct, forum anxiety does ****, but when people are getting the wall of silence, what is one to expect?
 

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I figure ill sit back and wait till 2015 and try again. Hopefully it is sorted by then. I am disappointed, I have really been looking forward to the car. I've driven hundreds of miles to see them In person.

You'll thank youself... and probably save another $50k by getting the 2014/2015 Z06. I really think Chevrolet ate Dodge's lunch this time around :(
 

Matt Houston

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I know what you mean about losing enthusiasm. I drove some 45 miles to look at the new Viper at a local dealership which specializes in Vipers. Upon arrival, I found out they have several new Vipers, but they were all stored in a secure room on the second floor of the dealership, and only two people had the keys. Didn't see the Viper that day, but I found another dealership in town that had several Vipers smack-dab front and center on the showroom floor. If and when I do buy, I will be buying my next Viper from Auto Nation in Spring, Texas!
 

vipernut

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I am canceling my order tomorrow.

Tired of waiting. On to other things. Wife likes the new 911.

I don't know you ViperSmith..(other than this forum) and I would say to you that a 3 month delay (from March to June) in the grand scheme of things....is peanuts!! Don't let some behind the scenes machinations sway you from getting this car.

I just took my 94 RT10 out for a spin today and man ..do I love that car! I had to wait 20 months for that vehicle (back in the early 90s) (and had no idea back then when it was coming)....and am so glad I waited. That car changed my life.

And I know you love the car...and that's what it's all about. The car!

Don't let some BS Politics get in the way of you getting a life changing fantastical car!!

(Who knows? maybe after this viper you won't be inclined to trade for a new car so quickly!!)
 

Smog Dog

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I don't know you ViperSmith..(other than this forum) and I would say to you that a 3 month delay (from March to June) in the grand scheme of things....is peanuts!! Don't let some behind the scenes machinations sway you from getting this car.

I just took my 94 RT10 out for a spin today and man ..do I love that car! I had to wait 20 months for that vehicle (back in the early 90s) (and had no idea back then when it was coming)....and am so glad I waited. That car changed my life.

And I know you love the car...and that's what it's all about. The car!

Don't let some BS Politics get in the way of you getting a life changing fantastical car!!

(Who knows? maybe after this viper you won't be inclined to trade for a new car so quickly!!)

Well stated...

Bill
 

ViperSmith

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God I wish there was an easy answer to all this. I'm not sure the Facebook and Twitter way of communicating really is personal enough for the upscale SRT buyer and I'm not just talking about the Viper. The Jeep SRT and Challenger SRT, etc cars are all probably going to be at least $45K to $69k plus tax and license. That's Cadillac money for a Jeep SRT8!! I'm on emails all day as part of business and life, the last thing I want to do is spend time with Facebook and Tweets that are little blurbs and semi-sentences. I just want information so I can make my life decisions.

- snip -

Cheers,
George

George, I agree. With the Web now a day, there is no reason why there isn't an order portal beyond VOTS. I know Ferrari has a decent one.

****, they could have a weekly update posted to status from Ralph himself.

Even emailing those that have ordered an update would do wonders.

I get it, delays happen. I am in software and have sold two software companies in the last year and a half. A four month delay happens. But, if it does, we communicate clearly.

It isn't like these cars are something we need to get by in life. They are extravagant toys. With toys, people expect more.

I am also sad because it was my first custom ordered car and my first American car I've ever ordered/bought. Hopefully SRT gets the feedback. I'll absolutely write a letter to Ralph, a CEO should welcome constructive feedback.
 

hou99gts

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I know what you mean about losing enthusiasm. I drove some 45 miles to look at the new Viper at a local dealership which specializes in Vipers. Upon arrival, I found out they have several new Vipers, but they were all stored in a secure room on the second floor of the dealership, and only two people had the keys. Didn't see the Viper that day, but I found another dealership in town that had several Vipers smack-dab front and center on the showroom floor. If and when I do buy, I will be buying my next Viper from Auto Nation in Spring, Texas!

Hmm, keep the cars in a secure place so buyers will get a pristine car when they purchase versus sitting in the showroom for Joe Public to mess with them, what were they thinking? :)

Seriously, Bernie and Morgan are very happy to show you the cars, just call in advance to make sure they are there to help you (I just saw all of them a few weeks ago, no problem). And good luck at Spring Dodge if you purchase from them, my experiences with them have been terrible.
 

viper GTS-R

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To Harold and Bruce,

I have brought the thread to SRT's attention via Twitter and they promptly wrote back that they 'appreciate the feedback and will be reaching out'. I was considering taking the drive down to Moparpalooza but being as it was on a Sunday, I would have to make the drive back up following the event. So that was out of question, that and I have quite a few other events I plan to attend later this year.

But if I was a few miles from the event, I sure would have gone! I would have taken advantage of being that close and address any concerns in person. As mentioned before, Viper production can be a slow and tedious process. I think being that it's 2013 and we have all this technology, there sure is a difference in communication versus the early 90's when phones still had 458 mile curled cords and AOL was a CD you could get for free at CompUSA.

And it's good that threads like this are being made. If the point of the thread gets the message across (without going off topic), then later on things should get better back in Detroit. Frustration ***** but the reward makes patience all worth it.

--RS

If you have 20 minutes even if you have or haven't, watch this. It never gets old. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whaPjNEM_Hg
 
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