Monday we find out who is faster at Laguna Seca, ZR1 or Gen V

[bluestreak]

How many owners actually track ZR1's? We have seen around 8 in the Pittsburgh area, but only at car cruises.

A few in the southeast. Only 1 of which ive seen that was fast. Have a video of it at barber msp. Was modded on r6 and fast.

 

[doctorbob]

Wow....the world has ended. Just reading this thread I had to put my flame suit on! I am keeping my ACR (was planning of doing that anyway and was planning to kick @ss in comfort with the Gen V) and will continue to wait until I see more performance numbers and colors and interiors in person.

 

[chorps]

Yes I have been drinking but things get said that way.

That explains a lot.

 

[Ray W]

Cancelled Order maybe should be Suspended Order. I have owned 6 new Vipers since 1994. I don't just peck the keyboard. I put my money where my mouth is.

There just aren't enough positives to justify buying this current car. It does look beautiful,unfortunately I am a driver not a polisher.

The truth is SRT asked what we wanted but built what they wanted. Carbon brakes,no. 700hp,no. Dry sump,no. Many other suggestions I can't remember.

What we got leather,more speakers,bigger tv screen,backup camera, little drawings of tracks we used to win at and second place performance. Not a trend for a long term success in the high performance market. The Koolaid has lost it's flavor.

 

[mnc2886]

Cancelled Order maybe should be Suspended Order. I have owned 6 new Vipers since 1994. I don't just peck the keyboard. I put my money where my mouth is.

There just aren't enough positives to justify buying this current car. It does look beautiful,unfortunately I am a driver not a polisher.

The truth is SRT asked what we wanted but built what they wanted. Carbon brakes,no. 700hp,no. Dry sump,no. Many other suggestions I can't remember.

What we got leather,more speakers,bigger tv screen,backup camera, little drawings of tracks we used to win at and second place performance. Not a trend for a long term success in the high performance market. The Koolaid has lost it's flavor.

Nice signature!! Lol!!

 

[Camfab]

Boy I hope all the haters here never have a loved one let them down, or maybe one of your children get one bad grade. We have really seen some pettiness and I doubt the true Viper guys or the Vette guys would have ever fallen on their swords so fast, just sickening and not what the forums use to be... I'm disappointed to, but not so much in the Viper.

Respectfully, a true Viper guy

Very true and I'm not taking away anything from the ZR-1, it's an awesome car. Personally, I love manufacturer wars. I think this is only going to start the kind of war that we (including Chevy guys) will benefit from in the long run. The Pres. of SRT is in the battle, I love it. I'm certain Ralph isn't going to back down, and you can bet Chevy won't either. I only wish we had a GM head throwing blows with a face to go with it. I love this country!!!!!!!!!1

 

[daytonprowler]

I call a do-over.

What about using a driver that is not scared of the Viper.

Get Wittmer or Farnbacher behind the wheel.

 

[Jack B]

Well said, I just don't understand how anyone thought the Gen V should beat the ZR1 at this point in time. In affect a well developed project versus a project that has not really started. The other thing I do not understand is why SRT marketing allowed the car to be entered into a comparison without track-pack brakes, please, someone answer that.

I rarely chime in on these types of discussions but....

Disappointed? Hell yes.

Giving up on SRT? Hell no. But I do wish they would have made their own run/statement prior to giving a preproduction car to a magazine to test. There has been a lot of hype about the new car, just wish they would have used Kuno or Dominik to run some laps first.

Would I cancel an order? NO. But a Gen IV ACR for $50K less does seem appealing. Thats a lot of mod money and I could even pick up a mint Gen 1 for the garage.

Now buying a ZR 1.........Ah, NO. Awesome car, but I cannot see paying over $100K for any corvette. Regardless of the performance. If I owed a 458 I wouldn't sell it because of this test and buy 2-3 ZR1's. Maybe its just me, never been a vette fan.

Concerning? Yes, especially for the price of the GTS.

Annoying? Yep! Especially for the magazine bench racers that now think the Gen V is no good.

Well Ralph, hurry up and grab one of the GTSR boys and go prove everyone wrong.

 

[Moundir]

Cancelled Order maybe should be Suspended Order. I have owned 6 new Vipers since 1994. I don't just peck the keyboard. I put my money where my mouth is.

There just aren't enough positives to justify buying this current car. It does look beautiful,unfortunately I am a driver not a polisher.

The truth is SRT asked what we wanted but built what they wanted. Carbon brakes,no. 700hp,no. Dry sump,no. Many other suggestions I can't remember.

What we got leather,more speakers,bigger tv screen,backup camera, little drawings of tracks we used to win at and second place performance. Not a trend for a long term success in the high performance market. The Koolaid has lost it's flavor.

Don't forget the fancy gala in NYC Dodge tried so hard to brand the new Viper as a poor mans Ferrari, they even dropped their name! I guess after this A$$ whooping, they've finally succeeded!

 

[former345bhpLS1]

I was pretty disappointed when I read the article this morning, but not so much because of the Viper. I was disappointed because I wasted precious minutes of a busy day to read and the article. I subscribe to Road & Track, Car and Driver, and Automobile. MotorTrend never seems to deliver any real information or insight into, well...anything.

This article is a perfect example. It was written with the tone of "these are both terrible road cars and your an idiot for wanting them, but if you must choose...I don't know...um - take the Corvette." I didn't learn anything about what it is like to drive either of these cars (except that they are fast...huh).

Most of the current MotorTrend writers have the same failing, they can't seem to grasp another perspective and figure that everyone must share their automotive priorities.
Worse, they seem to think that their opinion is important - interesting since they are never in a position to purchase cars like these (I hear they're paid about $1-2 dollars per word, which explains why this article was packed with so much drivel). His reference to having more fun in a Boxster speaks to this one dimensional nature.

In any case, I wanted the Viper to be faster, but I have a feeling that will be sorted out (even these guys admitted that it felt faster and made up a bit of time on the straights).

The most important thing is that Randy Pobst confirmed that the Viper is still hard to drive, it is not a jump in, run five laps, and post a record time kind of car.

I don't think any real Viper enthusiast wants an "easy" Viper.

Just my thoughts.

-Nick

 

[Camfab]

I call a do-over.

What about using a driver that is not scared of the Viper.

Get Wittmer or Farnbacher behind the wheel.

Look guys that would only count if those same drivers drove just as hard and had as much seat time in the ZR-1. Otherwise what's the point. Face it the ZR-1 at this point is likely a quicker car around the track. If Chevrolet had the balls to put real aero like the old ACR, chances are very good that the ZR-1 would hand the old ACR it's butt as well. We'll never know the answer to that, because at that given point in time Chevrolet never did that. If anything this should light the fire over at Chevrolet to green light an ACR equivalent to the ZR-1 package. Hell I don't want to see an ACR Viper knockout the ZR-1, I want to see Chevrolet step up with an aeropackage. That's the fight I want to see.

 

[lmcgrew79]

Major fail. Even though mods, tires etc etc can make this car faster. I think the "viper brand" has been lost somewhat with this new model. The last 4 gen vipers set the bar on performance. While this time around it seems they was just trying to compair or match the competition. On par with zr1 performance, ferrari leather and headlights, trying to reach a market of different buyers and getting away from its base. Ill never forget the quote on ultimate factorys that says "When the viper first came out dodge marketing folks thought they would all be bought by millionaires, the marketing guys where wrong." Then they go on to say it was the factory guys or the guys that have saved a penny or 2. Did they forget this? How much cost and weight could they have saved buy not using all that leather and electronics. I thought part of the charisma of the the viper was that it was a very basic, cheap, caveman like, and very fast.. Kinda like the shelby cobra. Not meant to be driven daily. The rough, tough, brute, dangerous to drive, faster than everything else imo is the image of viper. Seems like all supercars these days are trying to be a jack of all trades, and you know the rest, but what do i know and that being said i still love my gen 4 acr clone.

 

[bluestreak]

I call a do-over.

What about using a driver that is not scared of the Viper.

Get Wittmer or Farnbacher behind the wheel.

Nonsense. Even if Randy is a tad slow in the Viper, he is not 2 seconds off the pace. The difference in him and winklers time is 08 vs 10 Vipers and days of testing with engineers changing settings vs factory alignment hop in and do a couple of laps. And even still the difference was what about 1.5 seconds? Lol.

Equal blame goes to srt for poor tire choice and poor options selection as it does for perceived subpar driving. The zr1 is a phenom, nothing short of max attack is going to beat it. Especially on significantly slower tires.

 

[Camfab]

I don't think the factory forgot it's core buyers. It's just that it's core buyers were not sustaining the brand, end of story. It's an evolutionary change, that had to happen because most guys who have the cash these days to buy these cars are a bunch of (I'll be nice) pansy's. My first car had no power anything, and I'm not talking about windows and door locks, I'm talking about no power brakes, steering..........no AC. It's a dying generation that's being replaced with Gen whatever that text and tweet and want paddle shifters cause they really want an automatic. Face it, it's a new world and the guys at SRT are in a difficult position. Personally I think they did an awesome job with what limited resources they had. I don't dig the Nav and the steering wheel controls but I do like the track info and I do like quality. Class winning performance doesn't have to have a cheap interior. Like I said, this is war and I'm excited to see the Americans are the ones at the top fighting it out. USA1

 

[Camfab]

Let's not forget this car company is owned by FIAT. I'm certain that tire choice was removed from SRT's hand. Italian mothership equals overpriced subpar Italian tires. On the other hand it meant fantastic seats!

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

For those that say wait till the new ACR is released. Hello!!!!!! are you the same one that ran home after a beat down in the playground asking your big brother to go beat up the perpetrator. We could all see the alleged performance #'s are not worthy of "King of the Hill" But the smack down that interior took was a TKO. Congrats to the ZR-1. Merry Christmas to all and thanks for the lump of coal SRT.

 

[V10lover]

This was the first test with the new car so I'm not going to panic. Yes, would love the viper to beat the zr1 but unfortunately didn't happen.
Will wait for 2 or so more tests from different magazines and maybe we will get videos of those tests before I make up my mind.

Two things are very clear to me tough:

1) Pirelli tires were and always have been a complete garbage of a tire. They were known as a very hard compound tire in the past which would never provide good grip even after warmed up. Don't know how well they designed them to the new viper standards of HP/TQ but if the car keep on losing against the ZR1 in other tests it will have to do with the tire choice made by FIAT which SRT depends on. Brakes, suspension, etc... would not matter as much as the first thing in contact with the soil that help to put the power down as well brake and corner the car and major thing are the TIRES used.
With Corvettes and vipers being high HP, RWD cars with close weight it is clear to me that the one wearing the better shoes will be in a HUGE advantage compared to the other with the not so good tires.
Michlelin PSC > Pirelli for road race. As simple as that. More technology and better quality materials are put on the the michelins for roadracing. Period.

SRT Should offer an option so the customer could opt. for two different tires, The ones that lost the test and a set that is barely street legal like the pilot sport cups.

I would really like to know what the viper would've done with the PSC michelins and the zr1 with the pirellis even knowing that would be hard to do that type of test.

2) Leather interior does not win races. Koenigsegg fancy headlights dont win races. Steering wheel feeling and grip don't either.
Yes, they look gorgeus and SRT did a great job with them but when your foot is to the floor in win or lose race situations like those in the test or our personal cars the last thing that will come to a racer's/driver's mind is the quality of the leather or how beautiful your leds looks and shines. Besides that, leather it is something that came out of a dead stinky animal and your seating your butt and farting on it most of the times. Could care less for that. HOOOOOORSE-Power my friends TOOOOORQUE, GRIP and 675-725 HP would've made the ZR1 the new vipers's B*tch by a big margin!

As a true viper guy, I really want them to turn things around but if they don't the only way I see it happening (N/A) is with the design of new Tires and maybe even a new motor for the viper depending on how far GM takes their new corvettes z06's and zr1s to.
Time will tell what happens and it is easy to agree that the ZR1 is still a serious weapon!

 

[chorps]

Let's not forget this car company is owned by FIAT. I'm certain that tire choice was removed from SRT's hand. Italian mothership equals overpriced subpar Italian tires.

From what I heard, Fiat had nothing to do with the tire choice. Unfortunately the bean counters at Chrysler made Michelin line up as 'just another creditor' during the bailout, even though Michelin bent over backwards to work with Chrysler up until that point. Michelin got burned real hard for being stand up and now Fiat/Chrysler have to work their way back into Michelin's good graces. Pirelli decided to step up for this round, anyhow.

 

[madninjaskillz]

Haha. Why is it I find myself agreeing with a lot of these statements despite the horrific grammar? What is glaringly apparent to everyone here, and the reason for a lot of "harumpfing", is that SRT compromised. They had to because of FIAT if they wanted to bring the Viper back. We knew that going in but that still doesn't help it sit any better in our collective stomachs.

I could fix it ditch the Italian leather, Dodge Dart Dash, Power assistance everything, retarted brace, 599 headlights, Pirrelli tires and Fiat SRT name. I would first put that cheap leather in the same as Gen II where the seats just soap up the armour all to save cost. Electronic dash is something C4s tried save money and put back the standard tachs where a 65 year old can figure out. Then get rid of all that power assistance crap except ABS wish I had it on mine to save weight. The brace only gets in the way for the blower that pushes the motor to 800hp because they are to scared opening up the motor because gas mileage. 599 Lights *** put Gen I/II light style back in there and for god sake paint the insert on the front bumper. Go back to Michelin tires. And last Ralph grap your things walk straight into the CEOs office and say "D&%^$^ put Dodge back on the back of the bumper and *$#@% Ferrari" Done Yes I have been drinking but things get said that way.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

I call a do-over.

What about using a driver that is not scared of the Viper.

Get Wittmer or Farnbacher behind the wheel.

Listen to this man for he speaketh true language I do get why they sent a non-track package Gen 5, it's because that is the closest resemblance to the original Viper they are currently about to start offering! In terms of suspension Viper is about to continue the rivalry AND take it to a whole new level, as long as the paddle shifters stay OUT of the equasion for that would diminish the true Viper spirit.

 

[BigDawg]

I couldn't resist Not sure if I'm allowed to post this here...

You must be registered for see images

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Nah... kinda cheesy.

 

[ACRucrazy]

A do over?!

Man some of you sound like elementary school kids. You don't like the results so you come up with excuses and cry like babies.

Look, I don't like the results as much as the next guy but I'm not gonna cry like a baby over some magazine article.

Again, like the Edmunds article, are you gonna bench race your buddies that one car beat the other in a Motor Trend mag?yea... Chics really dig that, and all the kids that love Vipers will look at you differently driving down road because an admitted driver scared of the car was slower around a track than a Corvette and nearly as fast as an argued good driver in a '10 ACR. There is obviously more left in the car. This magazine article is a good thing. You know Ralph and crew will work that much harder on the next go around.

If I were buying today, I'd ask where is the check box for the Viper. Those that wanna cry like children and cancel orders over a magazine article I say good riddance. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

 

[ViperSmith]

There is bizarreness about this thread.

People complain the Viper has Lost what it means to be a viper. The "nice seats and traction control"

But a pro driver comes in and is scared to push the limits because "it is a viper" - MT (being the only one) rips the interior (mind boggling).

Isn't this exaclty what you all wanted to hear? It is still a raw beast?

It nearly bests the 2010 ACR set by the same driver - was the 2010 ACR a a dog as well? Is the ACR slow garbage - since it is 1.5sec behind the ZR1 with the Same driver?

 

[InjectTheVenom]

If I was indeed crying I would have used an emoticon to reflect this.. yes as much as I do not like the results I do still see the rivalry element.. yes I am still calling for a balls-to-the-wall type of event for another showdown.

 

[Ray W]

Not whining,just not interested in a discount Ferrari or a under performing Viper. Original Viper buyers know what I mean. If the door hits me so be it. Sometimes you need a kick in the ass to wake up and move on.

 

[I Bin Therbefor]

I don't think the factory forgot it's core buyers. It's just that it's core buyers were not sustaining the brand, end of story. . . Face it, it's a new world and the guys at SRT are in a difficult position. Personally I think they did an awesome job with what limited resources they had. . . Class winning performance doesn't have to have a cheap interior. Like I said, this is war and I'm excited to see the Americans are the ones at the top fighting it out. USA1

I agree completley with the above statements.

IMO, the Vett showed that a daily driver, GT type car can be very fast. The Z06 with the Z07 is the Vett track car, not the ZR1! The ZR1 is a very easy to drive, street, GT type car. Simply, the Viper was beaten in this test. One observation, I heard the Vett CE say that the Cup tires were intended for the track, peroid. Very, Very short tire life on the street. No good in the wet or cold, etc. But, if you want them, you can have them.

The choices of where to invest their money were made by the SRT team. I don't believe there was a lot of money to invest! IMO, they believed that this kind of result would never result from their choices. IMO the SRT team believed they had the performance issue under control, with only minor tweeks needed to maintain #1 position in performance and could invest their money elsewhere. They were wrong. And IMO, the Motor Trend article will hurt the Viper in the market place with those wanting to say Viper in their beer and have everyone tremble and look away.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Not whining,just not interested in a discount Ferrari or a under performing Viper. Original Viper buyers know what I mean. If the door hits me so be it. Sometimes you need a kick in the ass to wake up and move on.

Not going to work with this guy that lost his heart to Viper for the rest of his life. Take another good look at the right things and you will see that Team SRT overcame a seemingly impossible mountain to preserve the Viper spirit to the fullest of their abilities.

 

[HyperViper]

I can't believe SRT did this without something up their sleeve. If they did, Major Fail. Only time will tell.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Well said, I just don't understand how anyone thought the Gen V should beat the ZR1 at this point in time. In affect a well developed project versus a project that has not really started. The other thing I do not understand is why SRT marketing allowed the car to be entered into a comparison without track-pack brakes, please, someone answer that.

The Viper DID have the track pack wheels, tires and rotors, if you look at the pictures you will clearly see the hat color from the ACR rotors.