More Viper SRT rumors

[Warfang]

for 100k+... lets shoot for the likes of porsche gt and enzo. Too bad DC will never let that happen. They'd rather blow their *** of cash on the SLR.

But what makes these cars so great is the $$$ per dollar. NO DOUBT can DC make the power but it won't have the build quality of Ferrari/Lamborghini. When it's all said and done it will still be a "Dodge". Like it or not that is the truth.

Actually we like it that it's still a Dodge. Having the power and speed of a Lambo or Ferrari with the maintenance costs of a Dodge is a good thing. And you make an interesting comment about build quality coming from a guy who owns a 68 Corvette, arguably the lowest build quality year ever on a Vette.

Right on, Lee. I like the underdog-ness of being "ONLY" a Dodge and still beating the pants off a Ferrari... wasn't that part of the attraction of the Viper to begin with? What's the fascination with foreign cars anyways? Some are great, no doubt, but their **** stinks as much as any other american car. It isn't better simply because it's a Lambo, Beemer, Honda, etc.

 

[JimmyCrackcorn]

This kind of speculation is best left for the GM Hopefuls that believe that one day the Corvette will be faster than the Viper.

Until then, the TOOTH FAIRY IS REAL, DAMMIT!

Y And I don't remember reading here that anyone who owned both said the Vette was faster either.

Actually everything Ive read is that the Z06 is faster from guys that own both, such as SW

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

for 100k+... lets shoot for the likes of porsche gt and enzo. Too bad DC will never let that happen. They'd rather blow their *** of cash on the SLR.

But what makes these cars so great is the $$$ per dollar. NO DOUBT can DC make the power but it won't have the build quality of Ferrari/Lamborghini. When it's all said and done it will still be a "Dodge". Like it or not that is the truth.

Actually we like it that it's still a Dodge. Having the power and speed of a Lambo or Ferrari with the maintenance costs of a Dodge is a good thing. And you make an interesting comment about build quality coming from a guy who owns a 68 Corvette, arguably the lowest build quality year ever on a Vette.

NOTHING wrong w/ a Dodge I own several, and my Vette "Is still a Chevy" when compared to the supercars. Just saying I bet many would be hard pressed to find a large # of people who would buy a million dollar Dodge over a Ferrari. When you play w/ that much money it's not ONLY about performance buy rarity, name recognition, and prestige.

I'll be the FIRST to tell you Corvette build quality from '53-'98 ***** (98+ still ***** but not as bad)

As far as my comment, I was merely going by what SW (who owns BOTH) has stated.

Not only is it more comfortable, but "Faster" than his SRT-10.

thread -- > http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=driven&Number=649829&Forum=All_Forums&Words=&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=3weeks&Main=649122&Search=true#Post649829

Nope that guy does not count. Now go find me a guy who said his Z was faster AND whose Z is not MODDED.

 

[Mopar426]

[Nope that guy does not count. Now go find me a guy who said his Z was faster AND whose Z is not MODDED.

Come on now Lee, he bought the car new (stock) I'm sure he's giving an honest eval of both cars. SW is WELL known in the car arena.

There is someone else on the board that owns both I forget the name though....

 

[Viper X]

Who knows what Dodge will do in the future. I can tell you, getting from 510 to 700 hp normally aspirated isn't that difficult with the Viper engine. Yes, there will be some details to work out with emissions, but I suspect variable valve timing for more rpms and more cubes will see it's way into the next generation Viper engine.

Kevin at Exotic Engine (I think Kevin previously worked at Caldwell) built my SRT-10 engine with only 9.2-1 compression, Stage 4 JM cylinder heads, forged pistons, blower cam, headers, etc. We went to 530 cubic inches. It made 700 hp at the flywheel after only 1.5 hours of break in with a stock "break in" computer program, i.e. no tuning.

We're going to run a Paxton at 12 to 14 psi, so we left the compression down a bit and used a blower cam as mentioned. We're looking for 1000 - 1100 or so with AEM tuning and the boost on pump gas, more with race gas. WCV is tuning the car this week.

The Viper engine has all sorts of potential, as some of us know.

I look forward to the 2008 model and with some changes as discussed, I'll probably buy another Viper. I'll bet it's back at the top in 2008!

Dan

 

[Bonkers]

Would our members prefer to see Viper come out with a mega hp car, at a premium cost, or see a combination of a small increase in power with the current car, and an even higher performing ACR type package with less weight, more power, and even better handling, but at a price?

For me (and I understand I'm in the minority these days) I'd take neither. I want my viper back. I want the no-excuses, rubber-burning, air-splitting, TC is for momma's boys, if-you-ain't-got-the-balls-take-your-hand-off-the-key, beast that I fell in love with back in '94. $100k isn't viper territory, neither is $80k for that matter. I don't want a vette substitute, I want an evil vette-doppelganger - something so insidiously simplistic that it causes Buick owners faint as it passes.

Basically I want a $60k nightmare on wheels. I want a car that looks so mean my wife would be afraid to enter the garage. A car so simple in design that I can fix anything on it with a Swiss-army knife and soldering gun. 500hp/500tq from a V10 6spd. 700hp is a poser number in this realm - it really is. Anyone who thinks that adding $20-30k to a pricetag for the benefit of a warranty probably doesn't understand numbers to begin with.

No traction control, no onstar, no tom-tom, no cup holders, no heated seats, no air-conditioned glove box... hell for that matter no glove box.

I want a targa that works (if Honda could make the del sol and Toyota the supra this really shouldn't be a big issue) that actually has a FUNCTIONAL roll bar.

I want a car so wound-up that it distorts sunlight when stopped at a light.

I want a car that school kids run to the playground fence just to watch it roll by.

I don't see a puffed up Gen3 fulfilling all those needs.

 

[Warfang]

For me (and I understand I'm in the minority these days) I'd take neither. I want my viper back. I want the no-excuses, rubber-burning, air-splitting, TC is for momma's boys, if-you-ain't-got-the-balls-take-your-hand-off-the-key, beast that I fell in love with back in '94. $100k isn't viper territory, neither is $80k for that matter. I don't want a vette substitute, I want an evil vette-doppelganger - something so insidiously simplistic that it causes Buick owners faint as it passes.

Basically I want a $60k nightmare on wheels. I want a car that looks so mean my wife would be afraid to enter the garage. A car so simple in design that I can fix anything on it with a Swiss-army knife and soldering gun. 500hp/500tq from a V10 6spd. 700hp is a poser number in this realm - it really is. Anyone who thinks that adding $20-30k to a pricetag for the benefit of a warranty probably doesn't understand numbers to begin with.

No traction control, no onstar, no tom-tom, no cup holders, no heated seats, no air-conditioned glove box... hell for that matter no glove box.

I want a targa that works (if Honda could make the del sol and Toyota the supra this really shouldn't be a big issue) that actually has a FUNCTIONAL roll bar.

I want a car so wound-up that it distorts sunlight when stopped at a light.

I want a car that school kids run to the playground fence just to watch it roll by.

I don't see a puffed up Gen3 fulfilling all those needs.

Bonk- You have no credibility.. you've been bought out by DC with that Comp Coupe... JK- I'm just jealous as h3ll you won.

I agree with you 100%... except for the cupholder thing (I'm a pansy that way).

 

[M. ROD]

For me (and I understand I'm in the minority these days) I'd take neither. I want my viper back. I want the no-excuses, rubber-burning, air-splitting, TC is for momma's boys, if-you-ain't-got-the-balls-take-your-hand-off-the-key, beast that I fell in love with back in '94. $100k isn't viper territory, neither is $80k for that matter. I don't want a vette substitute, I want an evil vette-doppelganger - something so insidiously simplistic that it causes Buick owners faint as it passes.

Basically I want a $60k nightmare on wheels. I want a car that looks so mean my wife would be afraid to enter the garage. A car so simple in design that I can fix anything on it with a Swiss-army knife and soldering gun. 500hp/500tq from a V10 6spd. 700hp is a poser number in this realm - it really is. Anyone who thinks that adding $20-30k to a pricetag for the benefit of a warranty probably doesn't understand numbers to begin with.

No traction control, no onstar, no tom-tom, no cup holders, no heated seats, no air-conditioned glove box... hell for that matter no glove box.

I want a targa that works (if Honda could make the del sol and Toyota the supra this really shouldn't be a big issue) that actually has a FUNCTIONAL roll bar.

I want a car so wound-up that it distorts sunlight when stopped at a light.

I want a car that school kids run to the playground fence just to watch it roll by.

Can I get an "AMEN"??!!!!! Aleluyah! Damn of all of the posts, this is the best one I ever read. I totally agree with you man.

 

[BLUESNAKE367]

Hey Brian, I feel ya bro, I quess that is why I keep my GTS...memories

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

[Nope that guy does not count. Now go find me a guy who said his Z was faster AND whose Z is not MODDED.

Come on now Lee, he bought the car new (stock) I'm sure he's giving an honest eval of both cars. SW is WELL known in the car arena.

There is someone else on the board that owns both I forget the name though....

SW's signature listing his cars says the Z is modded., hence my comment.

 

[Mopar426]

[Nope that guy does not count. Now go find me a guy who said his Z was faster AND whose Z is not MODDED.

Come on now Lee, he bought the car new (stock) I'm sure he's giving an honest eval of both cars. SW is WELL known in the car arena.

There is someone else on the board that owns both I forget the name though....

SW's signature listing his cars says the Z is modded., hence my comment.

Well I'm sure he didn't drive from the dealer straight to get the cam installed thus driving the car stock for a while. Maybe he'll chime in and offer his opinion on both??

 

[RavenFan_94]

Anyone who thinks that adding $20-30k to a pricetag for the benefit of a warranty probably doesn't understand numbers to begin with.

I agree, SRT needs to make a really poorly built muscle car with no frills for $60k so that guys like you can 'understand' them.

The S-2000-RT or whatever you called it has moved so far beyond what neanderthals wanted it to be.

You should consider a Factory 5 Cobra kit car, because that is what you really are after. Just make sure that they get the paint right.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

[Nope that guy does not count. Now go find me a guy who said his Z was faster AND whose Z is not MODDED.

Come on now Lee, he bought the car new (stock) I'm sure he's giving an honest eval of both cars. SW is WELL known in the car arena.

There is someone else on the board that owns both I forget the name though....

SW's signature listing his cars says the Z is modded., hence my comment.

Well I'm sure he didn't drive from the dealer straight to get the cam installed thus driving the car stock for a while. Maybe he'll chime in and offer his opinion on both??

My apologies to the rest in advance, but my cross examination of Mr Mopar continues, it's just too much fun, and we both kinda like each other cause we both own C3 Vettes, right Mr Mopar?

Lee...Sooo, SW is your only source for posting here that owners that own both say the Z is faster?

Mr Mopar426....Well, um, yes, I seem to think I have seen others but can't find them.

Lee....And with regards to your comments regarding SW's statements is it not a
fact that you did not recognize in his signature that his Z was modded when you first made your statements regarding an owner who owned both?

Mr Mopar426....Umm, er, yes.

Lee....And you now postulate that SW made these comments BEFORE his Z was modded?

Mr Mopar 426.....Ummm, I guess.

Lee.....Mr Mopar, would you stipulate that SW's signature says that his car is modded?

Mr. Mopar...Uhhh, yes.

Lee.....Mr Mopar, Do you have any personal knowledge as to when SW modded his car?

Mr. Mopar....Umm, no.

Lee....Can you tell us why you made the ASSUMPTION that it was AFTER he made the post?

Mr. Mopar, uhh, no I assumed.....

Lee...Mr Mopar you do know that old saying about the word assumed?

Mopar...Hope you enjoyed it, AND that everything has normalized down in New Orleans for you, I still remember that post.

 

[nazology]

haha no offense but thats why you shouldnt be in charge of building a car! Its all love though. I could care less what kinda options the thing has, BOTTOM LINE, A lot less weight is the answer, opposed to TONS more power. So they come out with a 650HP car that weights 300lbs more. Who cares? Same crap. Weight, Weight, Weight.

 

[Mopar426]

My apologies to the rest in advance, but my cross examination of Mr Mopar continues, it's just too much fun, and we both kinda like each other cause we both own C3 Vettes, right Mr Mopar?

Lee...Sooo, SW is your only source for posting here that owners that own both say the Z is faster?

Mr Mopar426....Well, um, yes, I seem to think I have seen others but can't find them.

Lee....And with regards to your comments regarding SW's statements is it not a
fact that you did not recognize in his signature that his Z was modded when you first made your statements regarding an owner who owned both?

Mr Mopar426....Umm, er, yes.

Lee....And you now postulate that SW made these comments BEFORE his Z was modded?

Mr Mopar 426.....Ummm, I guess.

Lee.....Mr Mopar, would you stipulate that SW's signature says that his car is modded?

Mr. Mopar...Uhhh, yes.

Lee.....Mr Mopar, Do you have any personal knowledge as to when SW modded his car?

Mr. Mopar....Umm, no.

Lee....Can you tell us why you made the ASSUMPTION that it was AFTER he made the post?

Mr. Mopar, uhh, no I assumed.....

Lee...Mr Mopar you do know that old saying about the word assumed?

Mopar...Hope you enjoyed it, AND that everything has normalized down in New Orleans for you, I still remember that post.

Lee you are too much! lol

 

[Camfab]

Would our members prefer to see Viper come out with a mega hp car, at a premium cost, or see a combination of a small increase in power with the current car, and an even higher performing ACR type package with less weight, more power, and even better handling, but at a price?

I have no insider information, but my belief is that Dodge is working on all sorts of things, but might get a little guidance on what our members would buy.

My belief is that the Viper Coupe and Vette z06 have achieved parity. They both sell for about the same street price, have about the same performance, and appeal to the same buyer. Z06 is the new guy on the block, but Viper is easier to modify.

One thing I never liked about the Vettes in general was that you could outfit them with so many engine and tranny packages. This, in my opinion was, and still is a major stumbling point. You always hear...Oh the Z-06 looks too much like the regular Vette. Dodge never made that mistake, and never should. The Viper should always employ these major characteristics...

A) Radical styling, evil and *******, almost cartoonish proportions(GTS), NOT Lambo wedgecut styling.
B) Huge horsepower and torque values through massive cubic inches, 700 HP for '08 minimum, naturally aspirated
C) Manual Transmission
D) Minimal to no frills
E) Maximum exhaust volumes permissable
F) Massive rubber, bigger than any currently available
G) Politically Incorrect (A natural outcome of the above)
H) Race car type chassis and suspension with little comprimise

A track specific car like the ACR option is great, but all the Vipers should enjoy similar power levels. The Viper should again rule the streets as it did in the past. If it doesn't instill fear and respect from the car next to it, it hasn't met the spec.

 

[safireviper]

Lee never under estimates the power of denial. Nearly every mag says the new Z is the faster but we can all pretend it doesn't.

 

[madman]

I'd say that both camps here could be satisfied in 2008. The current SRT platform could clearly become a base for two cars:

A Viper
- Radical styling, evil and *******, almost cartoonish proportions(GTS), NOT Lambo wedgecut styling etc.
- a Manual Transmission, Minimal to no frills (ABS permitted)
- Maximum exhaust volumes permissable
- Engine with HP whatever_you_could_squeeze_out_of_given_volume

A Whatever else (SRT, Chrysler?)
- just evolution of current design
- SMG style tranny
- ABS, TC (could swith off), DSC and other electronic gizmos available
- engine with factory supercharged option
- and simply more creature comfort stuff. Imagine a brutal version of SL65

Viper sold @ 60k and the other at 80-90K level.

Viper won't be (technically can't be) the fastest but it's going to be mean beast which would achieve what most owners want - headturns and scare. The SRT might be faster (isn't SL65 faster now anyway?) but it's going to be more civilized, competing with M6/Ferraris/galardos/etc.

My point is that Dodge needs to make profit to keep this going and by utilizing one platform at 2 markets they might achieve this.

And my other point is that I think there can't be an expectation that a big manufacturer would actually release a 600HP+ car without electronics and safety features to general public. It's called responsibility and attorneys bills protection program

 

[Warfang]

I'd say that both camps here could be satisfied in 2008. The current SRT platform could clearly become a base for two cars:

A Viper
- Radical styling, evil and *******, almost cartoonish proportions(GTS), NOT Lambo wedgecut styling etc.
- a Manual Transmission, Minimal to no frills (ABS permitted)
- Maximum exhaust volumes permissable
- Engine with HP whatever_you_could_squeeze_out_of_given_volume

A Whatever else (SRT, Chrysler?)
- just evolution of current design
- SMG style tranny
- ABS, TC (could swith off), DSC and other electronic gizmos available
- engine with factory supercharged option
- and simply more creature comfort stuff. Imagine a brutal version of SL65

Viper sold @ 60k and the other at 80-90K level.

Viper won't be (technically can't be) the fastest but it's going to be mean beast which would achieve what most owners want - headturns and scare. The SRT might be faster (isn't SL65 faster now anyway?) but it's going to be more civilized, competing with M6/Ferraris/galardos/etc.

My point is that Dodge needs to make profit to keep this going and by utilizing one platform at 2 markets they might achieve this.

And my other point is that I think there can't be an expectation that a big manufacturer would actually release a 600HP+ car without electronics and safety features to general public. It's called responsibility and attorneys bills protection program

If it was all about attorney fears, they'd put TC in a tricycle.

The current SRT platform can be anything you want it to be... how could your guesses be "clear"? Do you have inside info, or are you just trying to sound smart by speculating? They have been parading this thing called "Fierpower!" for over a year now, or are you not aware of that? Heck, DC can stick a lawn mower engine on the SRT platform and use it as a golf cart.

 

[madman]

Not even a speculations... just what I would do in DC shoes. Firepower was presented as an underpowered luxury Viper. That may very well be a third incarnation. I was talking about supercharged souped up engine accompanied with TC and adjustable suspension from Moton. It does not take much to make a supercar on a Viper platform. Many Viper owners did it on their own (except for TC and SMG tranny

 

[Marv S]

Dan, Are there any push rod motors with variable valve timing? (other than the rubber cam D. Cragin developed?)

Yes, there will be some details to work out with emissions, but I suspect variable valve timing for more rpms and more cubes will see it's way into the next generation Viper engine.



Dan

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

More hp has always been easy to get without all that variable valve timing, DOHC, stuff that can malfunction. Reliability, engine cooling, and emissions have from the beginning been the main deciding factors on factory hp.

I want DC to invent a device that can make even a Viper GTS R race car pass emmissions. It must be simple, light, and fixable or easily replacable with almost no restriction to flow. I would even concede to have an extra set of cats if allowed to run 800 or more hp from the factory.

 

[SRT10]

Here's a link to a online encyclopidia. Note they say this about the future..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Viper

"The future

After the introduction of the C6 Corvette, the Viper's position as the top American supercar under six figures began to fade. However, rumors and pieces of information exist that suggest that the next generation Viper, codenamed ZC, will be introduced in the 2008 model year and will have an 8.4 L engine producing 700 hp."

 

[Vipermann]

... BOTTOM LINE, A lot less weight is the answer, opposed to TONS more power. So they come out with a 650HP car that weights 300lbs more. Who cares? Same crap. Weight, Weight, Weight.

Yep. Well said. ... I would take a Gen4 Viper with 600HP and less weight, over a Viper with 700HP and more weight ... any day ... heck, I just want less weight (and a 3.33 rear gear) on my Gen3 with 510HP stock.

 

[Warfang]

... BOTTOM LINE, A lot less weight is the answer, opposed to TONS more power. So they come out with a 650HP car that weights 300lbs more. Who cares? Same crap. Weight, Weight, Weight.

Yep. Well said. ... I would take a Gen4 Viper with 600HP and less weight, over a Viper with 700HP and more weight ... any day ... heck, I just want less weight (and a 3.33 rear gear) on my Gen3 with 510HP stock.

Odd... I don't remember DC promoting GAINING weight on the Vipers. So let's reformulate your statement: I would rather take a Gen4 Viper with 700HP with the SAME weight, than a 600HP Viper that's 300lbs less, with a poor aluminum frame and carbon fiber/titanium galore that raises the price significantly.

 

[VIPER D]

my guess is 2 changes to the motor

#1 factory forged pistions

#2 factory detuned (safe hp) paxton set up for 700 crank hp.

extra 15 grand be done with it. Factory style.

vd..

 

[Bonkers]

Firepower was presented as an underpowered luxury Viper.

I think they're going to fumble the firepower too by selling it as a pseudo-viper. I've seen the prototype and its worthy, not a viper mind you, but worthy. If DCX plays it smart they'll split the market and sell both as sister-flagship cars:

Firepower option list -
V8 only - TC - ABS - Auto-Slap-Your-Stick Transmission (or whatever they're calling them these days) - 12way Power Seats, 93-speaker BOSE Audio System, cooled glove box, DOHC, cylinder shutdown for MPGs, - whatever else boats your float.

Gen4 Viper Option list -
8.4L V10 standard; no other option - Tremec 6spd standard; no other option - headlights; available in the RoadWus.Lvl.3 Package Group.

Price them both in the same arena and let the Neanderthals like myself continue the viper legacy while the posers will still have their leather clad, choice-aluminum trun signal stalks and 24 blub vanity mirrors.

Win-Win.

 

[Vipermann]

...
#2 factory detuned (safe hp) paxton set up for 700 crank hp.

extra 15 grand be done with it. Factory style.

vd..

That's interesting ... given that the German approach with AMG has always favored superchargers ... very interesting thought

 

[WILDASP]

I think they're going to fumble the firepower too by selling it as a pseudo-viper. I've seen the prototype and its worthy, not a viper mind you, but worthy. If DCX plays it smart they'll split the market and sell both as sister-flagship cars:

Firepower option list -
V8 only - TC - ABS - Auto-Slap-Your-Stick Transmission (or whatever they're calling them these days) - 12way Power Seats, 93-speaker BOSE Audio System, cooled glove box, DOHC, cylinder shutdown for MPGs, - whatever else boats your float.

Gen4 Viper Option list -
8.4L V10 standard; no other option - Tremec 6spd standard; no other option - headlights; available in the RoadWus.Lvl.3 Package Group.

Price them both in the same arena and let the Neanderthals like myself continue the viper legacy while the posers will still have their leather clad, choice-aluminum trun signal stalks and 24 blub vanity mirrors.

Win-Win.

Actually,Bonkers,this is a great idea!Perhaps this would placate the whiners over on that other thread(you know which one);a way to let them have their nannytech while we primitives enjoy the Viper as it was intended to be!Of course ,the Firepower would also need paddle shifters to satisfy the posers-perhaps the Benz side of the family has one that would work with the slushbox.

 

[SnakeEye]

...
#2 factory detuned (safe hp) paxton set up for 700 crank hp.

extra 15 grand be done with it. Factory style.

vd..

That's interesting ... given that the German approach with AMG has always favored superchargers ... very interesting thought

Despite Paxton being a good solution to more hp this does seem somewhat unlikely to come from the factory since AMG appears to now be moving away from forced induction, you never know though...