Something doesn't seem to add up...

[utahviper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

You make some good points. However, I do not understand how I gained 11 mph by going from 2100ft to 700 ft unless I am making significantly more power. I know I am making more power and that the dyno did not show that. My new methanol system is not tuned perfectly and isn't quit there yet but it did show up once I started to dial it in at the track during the street tire shootout.

Also, how would you explain paolo(862rwhp)? He made more HP than me but yet runs a slower MPH. I know I am not a good driver but I am okay and so is paolo, although some may consider him a great driver. So I guess what you are saying is that he(paolo) should have had a faster MPH than roof because he made more power?

One other thing I can tell you. My car dynos between 590-610 actual rwhp at 4500ft. When I am driving here I trap usually around 130mph. This, according to dlm website, equates to 626rwhp which is pretty close to my rwhp numbers. Then I went to vegas and I picked up 4 mph to 134mph which is 2100ft and make sense with the elevation change. However, I make some modifications to my car, water injection, and I pick up 11 mph and the hp numbers are the same 715rwhp, it just doesn't compute to me.

 

[BigCarrot]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Blah de ****** blah!!! Quit crying! He ran the time with the mods stated! Why do you care?

 

[BigCarrot]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

That wasn't directed at you Utah.

 

[Supra]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Utah, you are 100% right. Both you and Dr. Roof where making more power in TX than in yourt respective hometowns and that is why the MPH went up. What is happening is that at 4500 feet above sea level your car is making a corrected ~715 RWHP but an actual ~600 RWHP as you stated and that translates to about 130 MPH (BTW that's also roughly th MPH a 600 RWHP Supra runs, my friend Mark Tozer's car dynoed 508 RWHP and went 125 MPH while Ryan Woon's T66 Supra dynoed ~650 RWHP and did 136 MPH). In TX your car should have corrected to about the same 715 RWHP if everything stayed the same (did you dyno?) but your uncorrected number was probably closer to the 738 RWHP I mentioned earlier on the thread that equates to 145 MPH. Of course the car will run what the uncorrected number should equate to as the track MPH and #'s are not corrected.

There's NO question at all that your car made more power in TX to do 145 MPH than it did in Vegas to go 134 MPH.

You make some good points. However, I do not understand how I gained 11 mph by going from 2100ft to 700 ft unless I am making significantly more power. I know I am making more power and that the dyno did not show that. My new methanol system is not tuned perfectly and isn't quit there yet but it did show up once I started to dial it in at the track during the street tire shootout.

Also, how would you explain paolo(862rwhp)? He made more HP than me but yet runs a slower MPH. I know I am not a good driver but I am okay and so is paolo, although some may consider him a great driver. So I guess what you are saying is that he(paolo) should have had a faster MPH than roof because he made more power?

One other thing I can tell you. My car dynos between 590-610 actual rwhp at 4500ft. When I am driving here I trap usually around 130mph. This, according to dlm website, equates to 626rwhp which is pretty close to my rwhp numbers. Then I went to vegas and I picked up 4 mph to 134mph which is 2100ft and make sense with the elevation change. However, I make some modifications to my car, water injection, and I pick up 11 mph and the hp numbers are the same 715rwhp, it just doesn't compute to me.

 

[Juanmotime]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

First off all Tom is saying is that when everyone else knocks down 33-34 MPH in that last 3 seconds or so how is Roof getting 40+. That's not driver, that's HP and TQ. None of the faster cars can get that in the last 1/8th so Roof must be doing something right.

Utah.

Paolo is NOT what I would call a Great driver for drag racing. He shifts like my granda with a wooden leg. If he let Heffner run his car it most likely would have been faster, but seeing that he made those runs on the low boost it's still respectable.

The bottom line is that they are all faster than most anything on the street.

 

[2BADD 4U]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

oh no here we go again.......

 

[MaxedGTS]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

First off all Tom is saying is that when everyone else knocks down 33-34 MPH in that last 3 seconds or so how is Roof getting 40+. That's not driver, that's HP and TQ. None of the faster cars can get that in the last 1/8th so Roof must be doing something right.


Paolo is NOT what I would call a Great driver for drag racing. He shifts like my granda with a wooden leg. If he let Heffner run his car it most likely would have been faster, but seeing that he made those runs on the low boost it's still respectable.

One thing for sure......Roofs car made alot more torque than Paolos car did even with his belt slipping. Torque = power . MPH trap speed is a better horsepower indicator then dyno power sitting still.

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Paolo is NOT what I would call a Great driver for drag racing. He shifts like my granda with a wooden leg. If he let Heffner run his car it most likely would have been faster, but seeing that he made those runs on the low boost it's still respectable.

Juan, after lessons from you and TOOOFST, I would upgrade my shifting rating to your grandma with a new leg after seeing some farm animal ****! LOL!

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

[/QUOTE]One thing for sure......Roofs car made alot more torque than Paolos car did even with his belt slipping. Torque = power . MPH trap speed is a better horsepower indicator then dyno power sitting still.

[/QUOTE]

Max, with all due respect to Dr. Roof, DLM and yourself, you are correct about the torque to say the least. Look at the turbo cars!

I am sure David's belt was slipping if he pulled those #'s on the dyno.

I am also sure Doug did not have a problem when he dynoed David's car with fully rebuilt motor when he got the 850 RWHP and 880 RWTQ.

You also have to know I did not go to Texas with the intention of putting down the "Big Number" as far as the dyno was concerned.

I went to Texas to meet everybody and to run JPH on the highway 100-200 MPH and all other kinds of runs, and then also to do slicks and skinnies passes down the 1/4 mile.

The high, high speed highway stuff is ****** on the belt. I wanted longevity and I got it.

As far as peak HP #'s are concerned, I am going to twin turbos and could really care a less for dyno #'s records ==> I had my little moment in the sun a while back and that's fine for me.

The reason I have done all the upgrades to my car was to DRIVE the car. I have certainly done that and have enjoyed the hell out of it and I look foreward to much more enjoyment in the future. Hell, I even took my car out for a little 100 mile ride last night in the 32-34 degree weather and (of course was able to spin the tires at 100 MPH with partial throttle). I also hit 170 MPH on the new concrete section that has 200 MPH sweepers when it will be dry and warmer.

Getting back to the questions of this thread, I think the track is more suspect that anything here.

==> Did you now Dean Word ran 125 MPH in the 1/4 in the morning when everybody did their fastest times?

==> Dean has a stock(power-wise/engine work/exhaust) 1996 GTS with rear muffler delete and an x-pipe.

==>Dean has 420 RWHP. How is that possible to go 125 MPH with a STOCK car?

Hmm...... interesting, I think this explains it all.

 

[ronviper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Lets see what happens in Florida, i have had all kinds of turbo cars and never picked up 10mph because of temperature. One to two mph but thats it, in the heat the nitrous cars should shine. Dr Roofs car should run 2 to 3 mph difference either way plus or minus, remember its only a 1/4 mile which is done in 9 plus seconds so heat is not a great factor if you keep the intercooler cool. In the cooler weather the cars are faster but not that much faster, it seems much more because the pavement is cold and lack of traction puts the car sideways at almost any speeds under 80mph. Ask any tuner which car they built which makes 10mph plus due to just weather in the 1/4.

 

[Dr Roof]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Ronviper

Please clarify what you are saying?

You are basing your findings on what? the car only pulled 822 on the dyno? understand that the belt was loose, therefore first thing Sunday I tightened the belt. this is where the power was picked up.

Was you in Texas?
Did you Look at my car?
If you had questions why didn't you just come say hey what is making this thing run so good!
THere are many people on this board that examined my car ask them.

But please clarify what you are saying

Regards

 

[ronviper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

What the HEELLL are you talking about Dr. Roof i stated your car should be consistent plus or minus a few mph either way. Did i question your car or you, is there something bugging you or maybe you didn't comprehend my posting. PLEASE REREAD BEFORE WE GET INTO A ******* MATCH! I am sure you will not run 10mph slower in Florida than in Texas.

 

[Dr Roof]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

RonViper
I am just trying to clarify your post. it seems just don't have any clarity to what you are saying.

I answered all questions as of now if you have any specific questions than ask. again the MPH picked up was a combo of two things actually 3 things
1. Never had a accurate Dyno Number
2. Weather Was Incredible in Texas (Many people ran the Highest MPH ever)
3. The belt was slipping on Previous passes

I f I am not mistaken the TT car that was there made only 788 RWHP and ran a High 140's Mph on boost only. 9 second pass When he was spraying he exceeded 152 MPH which is RWHP is only 885 RWHP. I FIRMLY believe with a accurate Dyno Number My car will yeild this 875-890 RWHP range. WIth all of these factors and being you are comparing the Turbo there is not much difference in the power range. (his torques is more impressive, I only have around 882 ft/lbs) I hope this helps you ron.

as for now please read my sig, Did you see the video? That should help you annalyze further.


regards

 

[MbnViper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

DR Roof, Congrats! Man, Awesome run, and don’t even look at what some are saying you deserve the 9 and the MPH no matter what, no one can take this from you.

you proved it by a timeslip a video and front of everyone.

“He just did it” now move on people.

 

[Dr Roof]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Paolo

Each time you drag race your number come down. I started out in the 11's
Voi 10.7
Supra Event in San antonio 10.5
Bowling Green 10.22
V-10 Nationals Texas 9.87

Just keep practicing they come down. In florida you will have more time to drive, if you would have made the street tire shoot-out you probably would have done even bettter sunday.

 

[ronviper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Dr. Roof if you read some post it insinuated the cooler Texas weather was responsible for the big mph. My point was i race in the heat of August and cool of November and the difference was maybe 1 to 3mph unless i add more boost. Your car should run close to what it did in Texas, am i clear now.

 

[pauls]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

I think some of you guys need to stop racing dyno sheets and show up at an event! A dyno is a stationary tool met to compare one pull vs another. The race track is the real work, bring you cars out an race!

 

[Supra]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

It's not just temperature. Air density (which is not always directly related to temperature as barometric pressure affects this) and elevation make a bigger difference. TX air is AWESOME for making lots of HP. This is why you often see the corrected #'s been lower than actual RWHP's on a dyno.

That is why Dr Roof and Utah had such awesome runs.

Lets see what happens in Florida, i have had all kinds of turbo cars and never picked up 10mph because of temperature. One to two mph but thats it, in the heat the nitrous cars should shine. Dr Roofs car should run 2 to 3 mph difference either way plus or minus, remember its only a 1/4 mile which is done in 9 plus seconds so heat is not a great factor if you keep the intercooler cool. In the cooler weather the cars are faster but not that much faster, it seems much more because the pavement is cold and lack of traction puts the car sideways at almost any speeds under 80mph. Ask any tuner which car they built which makes 10mph plus due to just weather in the 1/4.

 

[Supra]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

I agree with you Ron. FL, MD, NJ (Atco and Englishtown) and TX seem to yield great numbers at the track due to overall favorable conditions. I bet you are right and Dr. Roof will have some more great runs in FL.

Dr. Roof if you read some post it insinuated the cooler Texas weather was responsible for the big mph. My point was i race in the heat of August and cool of November and the difference was maybe 1 to 3mph unless i add more boost. Your car should run close to what it did in Texas, am i clear now.

 

[ronviper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Supra i am not disputing that however have you seen HENNNESSEYY or other Texas cars drop 10mph when they leave the state of Texas. Why didn't the Heffner cars pick 10 plus mph? The boys in the eastern seaboard should be faster yet and Canadians should be rockets hopefully you get the picture. The car either makes the power or it doesn't. SVS didn't pick up 10 mph either, their car is very consisent it runs low 9's and no doubt will runs 8's, regardless if in CHITOWN OR TEXAS. They will not go from 148 to 158 mph regardless of weather unless they add boost and tuning or other improvements.

 

[Tom86ZT]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

If it were just the air then Chicago's Rte. 66 would be the fastest track in the country (and is for the NHRA 334 mph or so). The track is at something like 33ft above sealevel. Maybe not even that high. Yet even those cars making 7000HP now only very 15mph up over 300mph.

Tom

 

[Supra]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Ron, I don't have first hand knowledge of HENNNESSEYY or other TX Vipers outside of TX but a local guy with 2 fast Vettes said he lost ~6 to 8 MPH coming to AZ from TX. He bought one of his Vettes from John Page in TX and bought a Supra from SW.

Tom, Route 66 is also a fast track, but like I mentioned above Air density (which is affected by Temp, Barometric Pressure, Humidity, elevation, etc.) is what determines how much power an engine makes. So just altitude won't always make all the difference.

Supra i am not disputing that however have you seen HENNNESSEYY or other Texas cars drop 10mph when they leave the state of Texas. Why didn't the Heffner cars pick 10 plus mph? The boys in the eastern seaboard should be faster yet and Canadians should be rockets hopefully you get the picture. The car either makes the power or it doesn't. SVS didn't pick up 10 mph either, their car is very consisent it runs low 9's and no doubt will runs 8's, regardless if in CHITOWN OR TEXAS. They will not go from 148 to 158 mph regardless of weather unless they add boost and tuning or other improvements.

 

[Dr Roof]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

RonViper

I am not sure what your trying to accomplish! Looks like keyboard racing.

Was it you that posted the Big RSI Blower HP Number. alot of people said it didn't happen, I for one said it did happen because Gerald told me so.

I believe people when they tell me something unless they give me reason not too.

I hope to see ya racing at an event. You never answered if you was in Texas and saw my car run. If so im not sure i met you. Everyone I met in Texas was cool guys. Hopw about you entering an event and race! then we can talk about how well your car did.

I will be back in Texas for the supra event in march so hopefully we can run another world record pass.

Heffner didn't pick up the MPH because of CLutch problems. Call him and talk to him about that. He will be ready in FLorida. Paolo did not drive his car to his potential.

 

[ronviper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Dr. Roof sorry you don't understand therefore no sense flogging a dead horse. Heffners car i bet would have run very close to the numbers they run in Maryland if the clutch was not a problem, but you cannot see that. I have alot of respect for RSI but never posted their dyno numbers. I didn't see you post their victory in the unlimited class or formally giving them their dues. In closing i keyboard race while you run 9's life is a [******], i am so jealous of you and your car. Give me a break, you could run 7's for all i care it just doesn't mean shilt to me. A car does not make a man, if you are a good person i like you if a [******] move on its just that simple.

 

[Gerald]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Ron, you made yourself look as bad as I do sometimes when I post. At least I have someone that I can relate to now!

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Ron, you made yourself look as bad as I do sometimes when I post. At least I have someone that I can relate to now!

Gerald: F-YOU!==> Just kidding! Now we have three! One more for you to relate to!

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

oh no here we go again.......

2Badd, Coming from a guy who can complete an entire shift in .2 seconds, most everybody here has a wooden leg except for Albert Chlouber and TOOOFST! Juanmotime has taken me for a ride and he can shift my car as fast with the stock tranny as I did the Jerico with the lift and shift!

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Paolo

Each time you drag race your number come down. I started out in the 11's
Voi 10.7
Supra Event in San antonio 10.5
Bowling Green 10.22
V-10 Nationals Texas 9.87

Just keep practicing they come down. In florida you will have more time to drive, if you would have made the street tire shoot-out you probably would have done even bettter sunday.

David, I was too F'in tired after driving all day and night to get to Texas. I wish I could have made the street tire shootout!

I hope the turbos will be ready for Fla! If they are, I will let you drive the car if you want!

 

[1TONY1]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

If it were just the air then Chicago's Rte. 66 would be the fastest track in the country (and is for the NHRA 334 mph or so). The track is at something like 33ft above sealevel. Maybe not even that high. Yet even those cars making 7000HP now only very 15mph up over 300mph.

Tom

Can't help it....it's the pilot coming out in me. Joliet (RT 66) is 580-600 feet above sea level and San Antonio is 800 feet.

And like Supra said....it's not temp...it's the corrected elevation, density altitude. From what I gather, 1000' elevation change = over 3% horsepower and 10 degrees air temp = 1% horsepower

 

[TOOOFST]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Stop the Madness (Vote)Heffner vs DLM
Max for president
Hey Max are you sick?
You haven't insulted me today.
i'm sad
Doc ROOFster C O N G R A G U L A T I O N S
die POST die.