THE NEW Z06 IS FASTER THAN THE VIPER

[SylvanSRT]

Porsche(who expects and supports tracking their cars) ran into simialar situation a few years ago. They offered a similar style oil pick-up as part of a "track package", for a nominal price $1-2k and the owners were so up in arms that the cars were not track ready that they refunded the price to anyone who purchased the track package, THEN made it STANDARD equiptment! Does Dodge really expect that their "race car for the street" will not see driver education or open track days? Or do they feel that most of us like to wash wax and stare at our cars, and not use it for the purpose it was designed/created. I feel that this oversight could almost be considered a design flaw, ESPECIALLY considering the "race car for the streets" designation.

 

[Kai SRT10]

Porsche(who expects and supports tracking their cars) ran into simialar situation a few years ago. They offered a similar style oil pick-up as part of a "track package", for a nominal price $1-2k and the owners were so up in arms that the cars were not track ready that they refunded the price to anyone who purchased the track package, THEN made it STANDARD equiptment! Does Dodge really expect that their "race car for the street" will not see driver education or open track days? Or do they feel that most of us like to wash wax and stare at our cars, and not use it for the purpose it was designed/created. I feel that this oversight could almost be considered a design flaw, ESPECIALLY considering the "race car for the streets" designation.

YES!!! It is unconscionable that Dodge continues to sell the Viper with an oil pan that doesn't work.
It is a design flaw. It really ****** me off that they know about the problem, and don't bother to fix it. The stupid thing is that if they bought the baffled, swing arm pan in bulk, it wouldn't be that much more expensive than the current stock pan.

 

[SylvanSRT]

Agreed the difference if this change in dollar cost was brought into the "standard" production would be negligable(my guess is a total less than hundred(s)of dollars) instead i feel they chose the negligent choice. Or it may have been economic figuring that the potential(rare) damage done by not having this equiptment, that it would be cheaper to perform engine rebuild/replacement on the fewer than(numbers of cars) to porvide the potential benefit to a greater number of people(who may not need or take advantage of the extra measure of safety this part provides to fewer owners).

 

[safireviper]

KVERGES - you apologize right now for your perceptive rantings!

 

[Keith C]

Agreed the difference if this change in dollar cost was brought into the "standard" production would be negligable(my guess is a total less than hundred(s)of dollars) instead i feel they chose the negligent choice. Or it may have been economic figuring that the potential(rare) damage done by not having this equiptment, that it would be cheaper to perform engine rebuild/replacement on the fewer than(numbers of cars) to porvide the potential benefit to a greater number of people(who may not need or take advantage of the extra measure of safety this part provides to fewer owners).

FYI

Email from Mark Jorgensen

Keith,

Thank you for the request. We can do a Paxton install prior to the delivery of your coupe no problem on the price. I would suggest though that if you are planning on ANY track days that you upgrade the oil pan and pickup tube to the comp coup items, $xxxx plus labor and the core of the original items. This will ensure that you will not have any oil starvation issues at the track. Otherwise I cannot warrantee the install if you are going to a track.

We do offer other options if you are planning on tracking the car. We have been doing a lot of Moton suspensions that will improve the ride and handling of your new coup as well as make it look even better with the lower stance, installed price with new springs, custom corner weighting and full alignment $xxxx.

We do offer other engine packages outlined on the website anything from headers and cams, computers to full head work and custom stroker motors. Please feel free to check out all that is available at www.woodhouse.com and go to the Viper section.

Thanks and call if you have any other questions!

Mark Jorgensen

Woodhouse Viper Service

800-889-1893
402-677-2935 cell

It's covered. Whatever you want.

 

[Hirohawa]

Yikes!

I never knew the SRT 10 had Oil starvation issues. Is this the case with Gen I &II?
I have never heard of this on the previous generation of Vipers.

I hope DC steps up to the plate and makes the Viper King of the Hill again. And it is more than just increasing Horsepower. Whatever anyone thinks of the Corvette, and there being a million of them, the new Z is a complete package that can be raced and driven comfortably.

DC needs to:

-Lighten the car by at least 250lbs
-Offer a defeatable traction control
-Offer a Moton like suspension for lowering
-Get lighter wheels (like the sidewinder) and get rid of the heavier wheels they put on the new coupe.
-Add more Horsepower
-Tune and test at the Ring with times equal or better than the Z06
-Get the Viper back in LeMans

 

[VipeRicK]

I'm not totally sure , but my understanding was that the oil starvation issue was only a problem on high right banked turns???? Anybody know for Sure???

 

[Keith C]

Yikes!

I never knew the SRT 10 had Oil starvation issues. Is this the case with Gen I &II?
I have never heard of this on the previous generation of Vipers.

I hope DC steps up to the plate and makes the Viper King of the Hill again. And it is more than just increasing Horsepower. Whatever anyone thinks of the Corvette, and there being a million of them, the new Z is a complete package that can be raced and driven comfortably.

DC needs to:

-Lighten the car by at least 250lbs
-Offer a defeatable traction control
-Offer a Moton like suspension for lowering
-Get lighter wheels (like the sidewinder) and get rid of the heavier wheels they put on the new coupe.
-Add more Horsepower
-Tune and test at the Ring with times equal or better than the Z06
-Get the Viper back in LeMans

Wannabe,

Please add stop VCA president from declaring the Z06 faster than the coupe before it hits the streets. It might piss off some other wannabees.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Wannabe,

Please add stop VCA president from declaring the Z06 faster than the coupe before it hits the streets. It might piss off some other wannabees.

1. He is not a "wannabe" - that was my bad and for which I apologized.

2. Both the Z06 and Coupes have "hit the streets" and the magazines. The Coupe has had Z-E-R-O powertrain modifications, and besides a couple early magazine reports, the SRT-10 originally posted higher numbers than the Z06 is posting now.

 

[Keith C]

Wannabe,

Please add stop VCA president from declaring the Z06 faster than the coupe before it hits the streets. It might piss off some other wannabees.

1. He is not a "wannabe" - that was my bad and for which I apologized.

2. Both the Z06 and Coupes have "hit the streets" and the magazines. The Coupe has had Z-E-R-O powertrain modifications, and besides a couple early magazine reports, the SRT-10 originally posted higher numbers than the Z06 is posting now.

I did not know production coupes were shipped to dealers and delivered. That is my bad for which I apologize.

Keith

 

[Yellow32]

One thing to remember regarding the perceived "quickness" of the C6z, its final drive ratio is 3.42, whereas the Viper is 3.07, drop a set of 3.73s in the Viper and bye-bye!

http://www.viperclub.org/faq/techgears.html

-J

 

[George Murray]

Performance numbers-wise, it looks like at this time it's just a case of "my car magazine article will beat your car magazine article." Don't start buttsnorkeling the chevy dealers just yet.

I'll reserve judgement until there've been a few more tests. In the meantime, I look forward to seeing some of these new Z06's at the road course events I attend.

In any event, my 'Vette days have been over for many years. I won't de-evolve down that road.

I passed a truckload of new Z06's when I was heading east on I-40 in TN yesterday (was about 50 miles east of Memphis...in an RT/10). So, at least in this case, a 93 RT/10 blew six Z06's off the road simultaneously!

 

[Hirohawa]

Keith,

I accept your apology.

Open your eyes and learn to read next time before throwing insults. This way you can avoid being a "wannabe" yourself.

Steve

Wannabe,

Please add stop VCA president from declaring the Z06 faster than the coupe before it hits the streets. It might piss off some other wannabees.

1. He is not a "wannabe" - that was my bad and for which I apologized.

2. Both the Z06 and Coupes have "hit the streets" and the magazines. The Coupe has had Z-E-R-O powertrain modifications, and besides a couple early magazine reports, the SRT-10 originally posted higher numbers than the Z06 is posting now.

I did not know production coupes were shipped to dealers and delivered. That is my bad for which I apologize.

Keith

 

[Bwright]

Y2K5SRT,

Your post, which started this thread, was a class act and superbly written. A tip of the hat and a round of respectful applause to you sir. I know that it cannot have been easy to man up like that in this environment. That's courage and I have nothing but respect for it.

I gather that the next Viper is slated to use displacement-on-demand with a Lotus designed engine. We will see if this is indeed true.

 

[Makara]

Do you people not understand that there is no way that a VipAir will work for the ZO6? That fact alone is enough to keep me VIPER LOYAL. Sure, go over to the GM camp but I'll stick a piece of plastic under my hood and you'll be sucking my exhaust.

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

Excellent and inspiring post Y2K5SRT!!! Myself included, there is way too much talk of the new Z06 in this forum. I have done my best to try to stay constructive in my criticisms of the Gen III and new Coupe. I would buy a new Viper Coupe over a Z06 or any similar priced car today. Truthfully, I couldn't afford a second Viper yet but I do want to see the Gen IV before I buy a second Viper. Hopefully the Gen IV will blow me away in style and performance and make me work to get one in addition to the RT/10 that I never plan on selling.
I will always enjoy driving my RT/10 regardless of what the competition comes out with. Everybody knows the V10 is not even close to it's potential in stock trim mostly due to government regulations. If I ever needed something faster, twin turbos are proven effective to show what crazy high hp the V10 is capable of. Mod for mod the Viper will blow away the competition.

 

[doctorbob]

Good comments Chris, frankly I do not think there will be a six year run like the GTS and here we are three years into the current version of the SRT10 and we are aready looking for the fourth generation Viper to be introduced. It makes VIO9 even more interesting since Dodge will have to pony up it they wish to continue to be the best and beat the Z06. There won't be an Ode to Viper and the crushing of a vette otherwise. Bob

 

[ViperJoe]

IMO.........the C6 Z-06 looks like all the other C6 coupes.
You have to be car saavy to tell the difference.
That's why I got off of one of the 2 Z-06 lists that I am on.
There will always be something faster out there, from modded rice to blown stangs.
Now.......what looks better? IMO.....my red Asp!
If the Viper had a pull start Briggs & Stratton, I'd still have one! LOL!

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Now, I will share this little story that just happened last night: A local guy got his new Z06 on Friday. Red too. He is selling his black on black 2000 Viper ACR. I went to look at it last night (gorgeous). We chatted for some time about the new Z and how really quick it is. "But you know what?", he asked me. "I drove it around on Friday evening and much of Saturday and NOT ONE person gave me a second look or a thumbs up. When I drive the Viper I can't even get out of the neighborhood without attracting a crowd. Here my bright red, brand-new Z06 might as well be a Honda, whereas my stealth-black five-year-old Viper is like a rock star no matter where I go. Even my daughters (both in college) told me to keep the Viper and dump the Vette. Go figure!"

Needless to say, he said he is not overly eager to sell the ACR now, but will if the price is right...

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Ok Chris. He has a new Z06 and you have a 05 SRT. Both are honestly stock and not "dragracer stock."

Go do 3-5 1/4 runs at a dragstrip with a tree and get back to us.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Ok Chris. He has a new Z06 and you have a 05 SRT. Both are honestly stock and not "dragracer stock."

Go do 3-5 1/4 runs at a dragstrip with a tree and get back to us.

Be delighted, but I will check to see if he would switch drivers: He is an SCCA certified track rat with a couple televised wins to his credit. From what I am hearing the Z06 does better with traction control ON in the 1/4. Despite a hell of a lot of passes on the drag strip, I can safely say I am still not anywhere near as good as a traction control unit. So if he will let me pilot his Z06 and he will drive my SRT (likely), I will try to set it up.

Of course he will want to make sure it stays clean for the showroom floor when he takes it to work. Did I forget to mention that he is a Chevy dealer?

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Don't think I'd let my competitor drag race MY car. Especially if the competitor is used to traction control and my car has none, and 525lb of torque. You have to ask yourself, Smart Or Dumb?

It only works in the movies. Run whatcha brung

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Don't think I'd let my competitor drag race MY car. Especially if the competitor is used to traction control and my car has none, and 525lb of torque. You have to ask yourself, Smart Or Dumb?

It only works in the movies. Run whatcha brung

This guy has been a local VCA member and Viper owner for five years, has about $1.5M worth of cars in his personal collection (most of them track cars), and races regularly. I would trust him to drive my car FAR better than I could. And very unbiased as well. But we would swap cars just to see who could get the fastest time out of each car...

 

[dirk989]

This is the most constructive thread I've read since I purchased my Viper and discovered the forum.

Let me chime in here, although I'm sure much of this is redundant.

1. Congrats to Chevy for coming up with a car that 'may' perform as well (stock vs. stock) as my Viper. I say may because we still don't know. I say congratulations because this is a monumental feat that took hundreds of millions of dollars and the commitment of countless engineers and designers. My first 'fancy' car was a Vette back in 1979 in the dark days of performance. The thing probably had 180hp but was one of the 'fast' cars of its day. I've had several Vettes since then and still have a soft spot for them.

2. Viperdrummer and others made a great point that no matter what the Vette can do, it will never be a Viper. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one so enthusiastic about the Viper. I agree that there are a lot of other cars faster than the Viper. That doesn't hurt my enjoyment one tiny bit. No handwringing here. The fact that the new Vette 'may' be faster and/or cheaper doesn't make me want to dump the Viper and step back down to a Vette. Sounds like some of the people on here are planning on trading to a Vette. Enjoy your Vette. That won't affect my enjoyment of the Viper either.

3. Several have the sky is falling attitude about the new Z. If the new Z is all that it takes to kill the Viper program then I'll be terribly surprised. The first Viper was introduced in the performance dark ages. It was a sledgehammer and a wonderful achievement, but it came in a time of little competition. A 400hp car in a time where 200hp cars ruled. It had such an impact because there was nothing else like it. In the years since then companies have learned that performance sells. The bar has been raised and raised. To have that impact today would be impossible because the competition has stepped up. A 1000hp Viper would be needed to have the same effect. 1000hp on the street is overkill even if it could be done. Today there is no clear 'king of the hill' because there are cars that would have been called 'supercars' in the past being made by everyone from Audi to Honda. Enjoy the choices. You really think the Viper will die because Honda shoehorns a 550 hp engine into an NSX? Or Audi using the 600 hp Lambo V10? Or Vette wringing 505 out of the 427? I don't think so, but I'm glad those choices exist and I'm glad they will be spurring companies to produce better and better cars.

4. Someone said that the Viper is becoming a 'poser' car because of the Z's performance. Other than the guy who was 'racing' in and out of traffic, few of us will use all of the performance of the Viper on public roads. Even the guy who was 'racing' the Z on public roads was not using the full capacity of the car. I'm sure that trying to dodge minivans filled with innocent kids caused him to hit the brakes from time to time. Anyone using these cars on the track surely won't be going purely stock, if they are serious.

5. All of this discussion has made me cancel my next appointment to go get the Viper and drive it back to the office on this rainy gray Indiana day. I can guarantee that wouldn't happen if I had a Z06.


Sorry for the rambling.

Dirk

 

[weed43]

The first test # on the 06 Z6 Roadandtrac.com That I have seen, They sure don,t look like what GM said would be.

 

[dirk989]

What **** is referring to:


"though not quite a match for its cross-town Mopar rival, the Dodge Viper SRT-10. Our vBox test gear clocked a 4.2-second 0-60 run, nearly reaching this speed in 1st gear, where the Dodge sprints there in 4.0; likewise, the Z06 dispatches the quarter-mile in 12.3 sec. at 116.6 mph, while its V-10-powered adversary cranks out a 12.1 at 119.3. The Viper feels quicker too in a roll-on situation, its extra 1.3 liters of displacement practically punting you forward, versus the still-forceful but more linear surge of the Z06."


12.3
4.2

Quite different than 11.6 and 3.7 that we keep hearing.

Dirk

 

[2k1droptop]

Great series of posts and perspectives - I have owned 6 Corvettes and 1 XLR before my Viper - I made the switch because the Viper is so different and unique - the thrill of Vette ownership would last about a month after each purchase (then I would get bored)or when I bumped into about 10 other Vettes exactly like mine over the course of any weekend - the thrill of Viper ownership is clearly amazing and its tough to wipe the grin off of my face each morning - there are only 649 Vipers in the state of PA - I bet there are 649 Corvettes in a 5 mile radius of my home! Who cares if the Z is a blink faster in a 1/4 mile race - many of us don't care or will ever experience that fact - Viper ownership is just special - I concur that DC will deliver the next top-of-the-hill performance vehicle though - and then, we can check that box off Viper ownership as well - lets get back to discussing our love of Vipers on this forum and forget the nonsense driven by the new Z - you can line up any car (including Ferraris) in a row with any model Viper and I bet the Viper always draws the crowd - I have seen it happen - enjoy the weekend - its raining like hell in PA and we all know snakes hate the water.

Turbo63,
Where do you go that your Viper draws a crowd? I live in Metro Detroit and I have yet to see a Viper draw a crowd. Maybe I live in the wrong part of town. As I have said before, in my small sub there are several Vipers, several Vettes, my next door neighbor has a Rolls Royce convertible and we also have Porsches and servel other nice cars. The only car anybody even looks at twice is the Rolls and that is only because it is blue with yellow interior. I go to cars shows and the Woodward cruise and I don't see these crowds in front of Vipers. I like Vipers and think they are great cars that is why I am getting a Yellow SRT. However, I not getting it expecting a Dodge to draw a crowd. Hopefuuly, I will be surprised.

 

[Hirohawa]

Vipers definitely have more presence than Corvettes. It is not just exclusivity either. The stance of the Vipers are so low and wide they just draw the eye. I especially like the styling of the new Coupe.

Like you I am not a professional driver so the Corvettes offers me a level of protection when I take the car to the road course with it's exeptional Active Handling and Traction control. It has saved me half a dozen times from going into a spin and going off track.

These cars, Viper and Vette, should be tracked to wring out there full potential and that is why the Z has such appeal. I fear I would total or damage a Viper on a road course.

Now, I will share this little story that just happened last night: A local guy got his new Z06 on Friday. Red too. He is selling his black on black 2000 Viper ACR. I went to look at it last night (gorgeous). We chatted for some time about the new Z and how really quick it is. "But you know what?", he asked me. "I drove it around on Friday evening and much of Saturday and NOT ONE person gave me a second look or a thumbs up. When I drive the Viper I can't even get out of the neighborhood without attracting a crowd. Here my bright red, brand-new Z06 might as well be a Honda, whereas my stealth-black five-year-old Viper is like a rock star no matter where I go. Even my daughters (both in college) told me to keep the Viper and dump the Vette. Go figure!"

Needless to say, he said he is not overly eager to sell the ACR now, but will if the price is right...

 

[Gerald]

I just gotta be honest here and question why a die hard viper fan would put the thread : THE Z06 IS FASTER THAN THE VIPER on the board?? Kinda gives me the heebeejeebee's.. <shiver> Don't jump ship so quickly Chris... Im still calling b.s. to all the numbers and to even title a thread like that on a national Viper board makes some wonder..

G

 

[SnakeEye]

I just gotta be honest here and question why a die hard viper fan would put the thread : THE Z06 IS FASTER THAN THE VIPER on the board?? Kinda gives me the heebeejeebee'.. <shiver> Don't jump ship so quickly Chris... Im still calling b.s. to all the numbers and to even title a thread like that on a national Viper board make sme wonder.. G

G ... Maybe this thread was put here to make the new Z06 owners feel 'special'.