TT vs S/C

[pteam]

yes I have stock differential and gears. I have new ps2s that we lowered to about 20 psi for drag day. I could upgrade to the quiafe one day but that was only my 2nd drag day ever, its something I do maybe once a year. How much does a quaife run with stock gears? Is this something you can put in yourself?

 

[black mamba1]

I agree with a lot of what your saying except for the part about "if you have over 750 the car will be difficult to drive" My car currently sits at 1200 whp and it is not difficult to drive. If I had to put a % loss of drivability to my car it would be less than 5%.

You might be right here in NC. I just moved here to Charlotte (on Lake Wylee) about 5 months ago and the streets here are longer and warmer than in CT. I have not had the problem of keeping my Viper pointed straight down here, but in CT I could fish tail 1st thru 3rd at least 9 months out of the year.

But I think it is really the driver. I dont know many drivers that feel comfortable driving a 1000+ rwhp Viper. W/out racing slicks I dont see how you can drive a car like that aggressively and predictably.

And I ask this question...at what point does it not make sense to add more power? 1200 rwhp? 1400 rwhp? 1800 rwhp? There has to be a point in which more power is actually less practical...and I think that depends on what the car is going to be used for.

 

[ViperTony]

Keith...I hate to repeat myself but I'll suggest it again: TRY IT BEFORE YOU KNOCK IT. That being said, what are you doing with your build? TT or Roe?

 

[repiv]

You might be right here in NC. I just moved here to Charlotte (on Lake Wylee) about 5 months ago and the streets here are longer and warmer than in CT. I have not had the problem of keeping my Viper pointed straight down here, but in CT I could fish tail 1st thru 3rd at least 9 months out of the year.

But I think it is really the driver. I dont know many drivers that feel comfortable driving a 1000+ rwhp Viper. W/out racing slicks I dont see how you can drive a car like that aggressively and predictably.

And I ask this question...at what point does it not make sense to add more power? 1200 rwhp? 1400 rwhp? 1800 rwhp? There has to be a point in which more power is actually less practical...and I think that depends on what the car is going to be used for.

I think you are commenting on an experience which you haven't had, which means you lack frame of reference to make the statements you are.

 

[plumcrazy]

800+ rwhp here and zero problems on the streets of mexico. i id get some wheels spin running dimitrios recently but that was in 40 degree weather...

it really is regulated by your right foot.

 

[black mamba1]

All of you guys saying I dont have the experience to accurately comment on this are 100% correct. I have talked to a few guys who have had that kind of power, most love it (Jospeph Dell and Viper X for ex.). A few I have talked to say its like driving on ice. But I guess I should actually drive one of these high hp cars before making any kind of comparison. I do know that my car accelerates so fast I cannot image cutting my reaction time to almost half by doubling my power.

Anyway, Tony, I am still leaning towards the Paxton. When I was up in CT w/ you and Chuck, I was strongly considering going w/ Seans Roe and having Chuck put it on. The only guy w/ an affordable TT install is the guy up in Illinois, the crazy really smart Italian guy, cant think of his name off hand. There is a Viper performance shop, Underground Racing, right here in Charlotte. I m leaning towards the Paxton for three reasons: 1.) I have not heard of any Gen 3 Roe installs yet. 2.) I dont like 700 rwhp at 2500 rpm. 3.) People I really respect like Bobpantax, MikeR and Illsmoq seem to really love their Paxton kits and are having a lot of fun with them.

UR is right here in town. I can drive my Viper over there, let them slap on the Paxton, pick it up and drive it home. I will be shooting for 900+ rwhp. Once I get used to that, and once you help me make some more money , and once you help me explain this all to my wife....I will remove the Paxton and sell the kit in this forum and go TT. I cannot afford the TT right now, but I have not been walked yet, so I am in to rush. I think the Paxton at 900 rwhp will walk 99.999% of all other sporst cars out there, even in Charlotte!

 

[treesnake]

I think you are commenting on an experience which you haven't had, which means you lack frame of reference to make the statements you are.

Thank You. That is exactly why I asked that the guys that drive these monsters what it is really like driving on the streets etc.

- It seems that the people that don't have 800+ hp are the ones that question the power.

-The guys that have 800+ hp all seem to want more... I have yet to hear a comment or receive a pm from anyone with 800 hp stating that they thought it was too much power. Not one...

2MANYTOYS was good enough to talk to me on the phone about driving a 1200 hp car on the street. He genuinly enjoys it. We both agreed that the biggest problem with all that power is...the loose "nut" behind the wheel..

 

[black mamba1]

When I bought my Viper back in 06 there was a red 03 in the lot next to it. It has an 850 flywheel hp Paxton upgrade. It was owned by an older gentleman that never drove the Viper prior to the Paxton install. The guy at the dealership told me the previous owner drove the car one time. ONCE. He did a 360 on the L.I.E. in NY. He brought it back to the dealership the next day, traded it for an awd white Gallardo.

I agree that the nut behind the wheel is really the key factor. A few of my friends have gone out and test driven stock Vipers at dealerships...at least half of them say, "you have to be a stone fool to drive a car like that!".

 

[JohnnyBravo]

All of you guys saying I dont have the experience to accurately comment on this are 100% correct. I have talked to a few guys who have had that kind of power, most love it (Jospeph Dell and Viper X for ex.). A few I have talked to say its like driving on ice. But I guess I should actually drive one of these high hp cars before making any kind of comparison. I do know that my car accelerates so fast I cannot image cutting my reaction time to almost half by doubling my power.

Anyway, Tony, I am still leaning towards the Paxton. When I was up in CT w/ you and Chuck, I was strongly considering going w/ Seans Roe and having Chuck put it on. The only guy w/ an affordable TT install is the guy up in Illinois, the crazy really smart Italian guy, cant think of his name off hand. There is a Viper performance shop, Underground Racing, right here in Charlotte. I m leaning towards the Paxton for three reasons: 1.) I have not heard of any Gen 3 Roe installs yet. 2.) I dont like 700 rwhp at 2500 rpm. 3.) People I really respect like Bobpantax, MikeR and Illsmoq seem to really love their Paxton kits and are having a lot of fun with them.

UR is right here in town. I can drive my Viper over there, let them slap on the Paxton, pick it up and drive it home. I will be shooting for 900+ rwhp. Once I get used to that, and once you help me make some more money , and once you help me explain this all to my wife....I will remove the Paxton and sell the kit in this forum and go TT. I cannot afford the TT right now, but I have not been walked yet, so I am in to rush. I think the Paxton at 900 rwhp will walk 99.999% of all other sporst cars out there, even in Charlotte!

BM,

Bang for the buck, you can't beat an Underground Racing installed Paxton. I shipped my car all the way from Kansas to NC just to have them build my car, and I couldn't be happier. I have been having an absolute blast with the car. I drive it on long distance cruises (350+ miles roundtrip), drive it around town, drive it in traffic and run 9's at the track. Absolutely the best money I've ever spent. The guys at Underground Racing are top notch and you're lucky to be so close to them.

I think you've got the right idea. Just run the car down to UGR, drop it off, have them put the Paxton on, install a good fuel system, an AEM and a water/methanol kit and enjoy the heck out of the thing. You won't be disappointed.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Thank You. That is exactly why I asked that the guys that drive these monsters what it is really like driving on the streets etc.

- It seems that the people that don't have 800+ hp are the ones that question the power.

-The guys that have 800+ hp all seem to want more... I have yet to hear a comment or receive a pm from anyone with 800 hp stating that they thought it was too much power. Not one...

2MANYTOYS was good enough to talk to me on the phone about driving a 1200 hp car on the street. He genuinly enjoys it. We both agreed that the biggest problem with all that power is...the loose "nut" behind the wheel..

There are guys who drive bone stock Vipers and think that 415 rwhp is all the horsepower in the world and regale all of their friends with stories of how they almost wrecked their car with all the torque it has. And then there are those of us with 900+ rwhp who have never had a close call and would still love to have more power.

You will not be happy with 800 rwhp if you know you can afford more. I only have 960 rwhp because that's all I could afford. If I win the Powerball on Saturday night, you can be sure that my next build will have 1400+ rwhp.

Do the Twin Turbos and you never have to worry about "what if".

We should try to make a package deal on shipping and see if we can get a discount from a transport company if we send both of our cars to UGR at the same time. I've been thinking about sending the car back out there next month for a couple of other things, if you want to send your car out there, too.

 

[Joseph Dell]

From years of having NA, SC, and TT cars, it isn't the power that becomes un-manageable or unenjoyable. The only thing that detracts from vehicular enjoyment of high HP cars is the clutch. There is not a single clutch which I've had hold in a super-high HP configuration that is incredibly pleasurable to drive. While the McLeod and Spec twin-discs help, the stock clutch up to about the spec 3 are enjoyable. get into other clutches and the engagement is harsher than is "fun" for street driving.

Sure, we'll all tell you that we love our clutches. I don't know anyone who'd ever spend 2k on a clutch that would say "screw this, i'm tossing it out in favor of an unknown". But the clutches take some getting used to and this more than anything is what you'll notice.

1200rwhp... 2200rwhp... in a TT car, you can modulate WHEN the power hits and how much. The engine management or boost control will manage that. It isn't like you are 2000 right off the throttle... you regulate it so that it is NOT 900rwhp in 1st gear at 10mph. But hit 80-90mph, you crank up the boost (automatically, of course) depending on the tires and the setting.

Brian is a great source for info as you already know since he's owned some of each and he's local.

Have fun!

 

[mbccenter]

I hate reading about these Twin Turbos. I have a 1000 RWHP Paxton SRT that I have not even driven yet and I want to TT it

 

[steponz]

Im really starting to hate this thread, my car is getting too close to be finished...

I will be in the 1300-1500 range.. But I am going from a stocker, to a paxton kit that never worked properly, but according to DLM it worked.... to some big twins and a fully built motor.... Can't wait...

Just get the twins and be done with it.....

Joe

 

[2MANYTOYS]

From years of having NA, SC, and TT cars, it isn't the power that becomes un-manageable or unenjoyable. The only thing that detracts from vehicular enjoyment of high HP cars is the clutch. There is not a single clutch which I've had hold in a super-high HP configuration that is incredibly pleasurable to drive. While the McLeod and Spec twin-discs help, the stock clutch up to about the spec 3 are enjoyable. get into other clutches and the engagement is harsher than is "fun" for street driving.

Sure, we'll all tell you that we love our clutches. I don't know anyone who'd ever spend 2k on a clutch that would say "screw this, i'm tossing it out in favor of an unknown". But the clutches take some getting used to and this more than anything is what you'll notice.

1200rwhp... 2200rwhp... in a TT car, you can modulate WHEN the power hits and how much. The engine management or boost control will manage that. It isn't like you are 2000 right off the throttle... you regulate it so that it is NOT 900rwhp in 1st gear at 10mph. But hit 80-90mph, you crank up the boost (automatically, of course) depending on the tires and the setting.

Brian is a great source for info as you already know since he's owned some of each and he's local.

Have fun!

Joe hit the nail on the head. I will be putting a stock clutch back in mine for street use. I have had several different High hp clutches and don't like any of them for the street. The dragstrip is a different story.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

All of you guys saying I dont have the experience to accurately comment on this are 100% correct. I have talked to a few guys who have had that kind of power, most love it (Jospeph Dell and Viper X for ex.). A few I have talked to say its like driving on ice. But I guess I should actually drive one of these high hp cars before making any kind of comparison. I do know that my car accelerates so fast I cannot image cutting my reaction time to almost half by doubling my power.

Anyway, Tony, I am still leaning towards the Paxton. When I was up in CT w/ you and Chuck, I was strongly considering going w/ Seans Roe and having Chuck put it on. The only guy w/ an affordable TT install is the guy up in Illinois, the crazy really smart Italian guy, cant think of his name off hand. There is a Viper performance shop, Underground Racing, right here in Charlotte. I m leaning towards the Paxton for three reasons: 1.) I have not heard of any Gen 3 Roe installs yet. 2.) I dont like 700 rwhp at 2500 rpm. 3.) People I really respect like Bobpantax, MikeR and Illsmoq seem to really love their Paxton kits and are having a lot of fun with them.

UR is right here in town. I can drive my Viper over there, let them slap on the Paxton, pick it up and drive it home. I will be shooting for 900+ rwhp. Once I get used to that, and once you help me make some more money , and once you help me explain this all to my wife....I will remove the Paxton and sell the kit in this forum and go TT. I cannot afford the TT right now, but I have not been walked yet, so I am in to rush. I think the Paxton at 900 rwhp will walk 99.999% of all other sporst cars out there, even in Charlotte!

Keith go over to Underground and have Kevin take you for a ride in a turbo car or a paxton car. You will be amazed

 

[Joseph Dell]

Joe hit the nail on the head. I will be putting a stock clutch back in mine for street use. I have had several different High hp clutches and don't like any of them for the street. The dragstrip is a different story.

+1. Well said. For the strip, you NEED something stronger. For the street, you don't. In fact, you don't WANT anything stronger b/c you won't enjoy driving it as much. Hence the reason I can swap clutches in under 45 min (often under 30 min) on my car w/ the lift, a good tranny jack, and the proper socket extension.

 

[steponz]

Which clutches did you have?

I got the McCleod Twin Disc Meba... Wondering how its going to be...

Joe

 

[black mamba1]

Keith go over to Underground and have Kevin take you for a ride in a turbo car or a paxton car. You will be amazed

First chance I get I am headed that way! From a cost standpoint, the TT is what, twice the price of that Paxton? or thereabouts? If the two systems are close in cost for 900-1000 rwhp I will go TT, hands down. But I dont mind saving the money and going Paxton for now. I have had 528 rwhp for going on 3 yrs now and I have had a blast w/ the car! I will call Kevin first thing!

 

[black mamba1]

+1. Well said. For the strip, you NEED something stronger. For the street, you don't. In fact, you don't WANT anything stronger b/c you won't enjoy driving it as much. Hence the reason I can swap clutches in under 45 min (often under 30 min) on my car w/ the lift, a good tranny jack, and the proper socket extension.

Hey Joe, whats your buddy's name up in Illinois that makes kick-ass TT systems at a reasonable price? I believe he did your 1400 rwhp set up.

 

[repiv]

First chance I get I am headed that way! From a cost standpoint, the TT is what, twice the price of that Paxton? or thereabouts? If the two systems are close in cost for 900-1000 rwhp I will go TT, hands down. But I dont mind saving the money and going Paxton for now. I have had 528 rwhp for going on 3 yrs now and I have had a blast w/ the car! I will call Kevin first thing!

tt v paxton pricing is more like 3/4-1, depending on what you do with the car (and what pricing you're getting on either system)

either way i think you'll have a big smile on your face

best of luck

 

[repiv]

Which clutches did you have?

I got the McCleod Twin Disc Meba... Wondering how its going to be...

Joe

stiff pedal, that's how it will be

 

[plumcrazy]

josephs buddy up in ILL is paolo castellano

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

josephs buddy up in ILL is paolo castellano

I almost had him use my car as the mock up car for the GenIII TTKit. Now I wish I would of.

 

[black mamba1]

josephs buddy up in ILL is paolo castellano

YEAH! Thats his name! He makes a mean ass TT pushing like 1250 rwhp for under 20k. Now of course once u add your engine build (which I've already done) and suspension upgrades to get all that power to the ground, you will be at 30 or 40k. I was very very close to having him put a 1200 rwhp TT on my car in fall of 07, but I was not convinced I could use that much power and I thought it was overkill at the time. You guys should check him out if you are thinking of going TT. The guy is a total riot and really knows his stuff. But for me, I want to go Paxton first b/c I know my driving style. I like the fact that the Viper can run almost "normal" up to 3500 rpm or so then the power kicks in like a **** at the higher rpms...I dont want a "missile" at every single red light. But again, before I knock anything I will go to UR and ride in their monster Vipers!

Thanks for all the input guys!

 

[steponz]

stiff pedal, that's how it will be

I am a big guy.. I think I will be able to handle it...

Will find out soon enough...heheh

Joe

 

[GTSNRT10]

First chance I get I am headed that way! From a cost standpoint, the TT is what, twice the price of that Paxton? or thereabouts? If the two systems are close in cost for 900-1000 rwhp I will go TT, hands down. But I dont mind saving the money and going Paxton for now. I have had 528 rwhp for going on 3 yrs now and I have had a blast w/ the car! I will call Kevin first thing!

I'm trying to figure out how to post a condensed version of what I need to say


I still own both variations of forced induction Vipers. so I'll do my best to give the best shorts of both

Exhibit A
2000 RT/10 Fully built motor with Paxton S/C 857RWHP

You must be registered for see images attach

This car has more than enough power for 99% of all people It drives like STOCK and can be used for trips, drag racing, freeway rolls, road racing etc. and pretty much embarass just about anything on the road The Paxton cars are DEAD ON reliable without any fuss for 10's of thousands of miles (as proven in my old B&W car that had well over 850RWHP on the 86K mile original motor) I have nothing but good to say about the Paxton setups. There is simply no better option in the BANG for the BUCK catagory but....................

Exhibit B
2005 SRT Mamba 1500RWHP

You must be registered for see images attach

Well, where do I start If you simply CAN NOT BE SATISFIED with your quest for power............The buck S T O P S HERE!!!!!! I simply can't begin to put into words the feeling of owning a fully built TT car This car is simply the ulitmate driving machine BAR NONE!!!! I've been blessed enough to drive/ride in darn near every car you can think of and can say with certainty there is absolutely nothing else that can match the rush of a UGR TT I have put probably 3,000 miles on this car from sitting in traffic, to mountain cruises, drag strip, long trips, etc. and the car is nothing short of phenomanal. It is as tame as a little kitten when need be, and as wild as a starved lion when the go pedal is provoked There is unfortunately a down side to a TT








Once you've owned one...................you can only downgrade because there will be NO MORE quest for more

 

[black mamba1]

Geez! 3x the power I currently have in your TT setup! I cannot even fathom that kind of power! I am one of the crazier Viper owners that likes to put the competition in its place every chance I get I will deff go up in stages like you did. I know w/ 1500 rwhp comes all kinds of costly suspension and engine mods. I have a Tator-Built indestructable built up lower end able to handle around 1000 rwhp, maybe more. But my suspension is stock. I know I would either be spending alot more $$ or breaking stuff left and right if I went TT right now..including my bank account! I am excited about going over to UGR and letting them do their thing.

Thanks for the pics! Both cars are awesome!