Next Phase
Enthusiast
What ***** is that SRT isn't taking the Gen V to the ring until someone takes the title away from the ACR (Coming from Ralph Gilles himself). I'm really surprised no one has put up a faster time yet.
Unfortuante that the Gen V will be so pricey
- Thread starter djhartm
- Start date
hou99gts
Enthusiast
If you were a car enthusiast that cared about how a car handled, you would care about the many track records that the ACR holds. My ACR puts a smile on my face whether it is on the track or on the street, and does not scare me. Your "facts" about Vipers getting their rears handed to them on track days is quite funny. The ACR has a VIN and DOT tires, easily making it street legal. I regularly drive mine hundreds of miles each day a drive it. It is not meant to be a daily driver. For your education, the ACR is just a factory modified coupe with bolt on items, nothing near race car specs. I have a John Deere also, the only thing they have in common is that they are both green in color.
Good luck with your car purchase in the future. I will be keeping my crude ACR and enjoying every minute of it!
TowDawg
Enthusiast
What you see at track days as far as cars passing cars, doesn't mean ****. That's basically ALL driver. I've passed GTR's, every Porsche imaginable (including GT3 RS and cup cars), Vette's, etc. Last track day, I even lapped a 458 challenge race car. And guess what? I've also been passed by all of the cars I just listed (except the 458 bc I've only seen it one weekend).
In terms of a novice driver being faster in some of those other cars, yes they are easier to drive fast. In terms of the car's ability, well see the track records the Viper has. To me, it's the feeling of satisfaction of getting better and better in a car that you know can do it, but knowing that the reason your getting faster is because YOU are getting better.
In terms of a novice driver being faster in some of those other cars, yes they are easier to drive fast. In terms of the car's ability, well see the track records the Viper has. To me, it's the feeling of satisfaction of getting better and better in a car that you know can do it, but knowing that the reason your getting faster is because YOU are getting better.
former345bhpLS1
Enthusiast
[ the fact that Vipers get their rears handed to them on a regular basis by 'lesser' cars on track days and auto-x events such as the 911's, GT-R's and lowly Vettes.]
It's a poor craftsmen who blames his tools, as others have stated above. And Vettes aren't lowly, just not as connected or exciting as Vipers IMO and they certainly do have other strengths. I could fit a 3/4 sized string bass into mine, but thats another story...
In any case, my purpose in posting to another Vette owner was simply to convey my experience with the Viper as it seems that you have not driven one (or ridden from the sounds of things) and I explain that the experience of driving one is much more than you might expect based upon reading magazine articles and the numerous myths that exist about the car.
You are correct, it is a difficult car to drive and that is part of the appeal. You could own a Viper for 3 or 4 years and still have much to learn about it's limits and capabilities. Not a car that you master in 6-12 months, get bored, and start looking for something else (such as a porsche boxster and maybe the GTR).
Also, the GTR is an impressive performer, though the amazing 0-60 times come with the price of voiding your warranty. The best 0-60 time I've seen published with the new launch control that doesn't void the warranty is 3.8 seconds, quite a bit longer than the 3.0 or 3.2 that is usually published. Also, my buddy has run 4 or 5 from a roll with his Z06 and has taken everyone of them, though he has not run a 2012 or later. Definitely fast off the line.
In any case, the computerized nature of the GTR is not my style. Plus six years of C5 vette ownership will turn you off to any sports car packed with technology, one more reason I like the Base SRT Viper so much.
As I said before, decide on the car you like best, doesn't seem like the Viper is what you want and why should anyone convince you otherwise?
-Nick
It's a poor craftsmen who blames his tools, as others have stated above. And Vettes aren't lowly, just not as connected or exciting as Vipers IMO and they certainly do have other strengths. I could fit a 3/4 sized string bass into mine, but thats another story...
In any case, my purpose in posting to another Vette owner was simply to convey my experience with the Viper as it seems that you have not driven one (or ridden from the sounds of things) and I explain that the experience of driving one is much more than you might expect based upon reading magazine articles and the numerous myths that exist about the car.
You are correct, it is a difficult car to drive and that is part of the appeal. You could own a Viper for 3 or 4 years and still have much to learn about it's limits and capabilities. Not a car that you master in 6-12 months, get bored, and start looking for something else (such as a porsche boxster and maybe the GTR).
Also, the GTR is an impressive performer, though the amazing 0-60 times come with the price of voiding your warranty. The best 0-60 time I've seen published with the new launch control that doesn't void the warranty is 3.8 seconds, quite a bit longer than the 3.0 or 3.2 that is usually published. Also, my buddy has run 4 or 5 from a roll with his Z06 and has taken everyone of them, though he has not run a 2012 or later. Definitely fast off the line.
In any case, the computerized nature of the GTR is not my style. Plus six years of C5 vette ownership will turn you off to any sports car packed with technology, one more reason I like the Base SRT Viper so much.
As I said before, decide on the car you like best, doesn't seem like the Viper is what you want and why should anyone convince you otherwise?
-Nick
former345bhpLS1
Enthusiast
Hmm, did something wrong here, the brackets at the beginning were supposed to be a quote from djhartm.
ROCKET62
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I like the fact it's priced higher - should help to increase the value of my lowly 2009 Viper.
mnc2886
Enthusiast
I hate to say it, but I'm starting to come around on the pricing a little more. I may have been one of the bigger critics of the price point, but it is hard to ignore that it is bang for the buck when compared to its competitors. I still think it is a little too high, but if people actually pay it, then it is worth it. I honestly think that these steep increase in prices occurred only because as the dollar dropped to almost half of a euro, we saw imports like Mercedes and BMW pricing in dollars sky rocket. Other automakers saw this and followed suit. Difference is, now that they are getting the money, regardless of euro decline, pricing held steady. Things are going my way to get a gen V and I think I will. I will wait to see what the new SSG that Ralph talked about looks like and I want to see the ACR first though.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
For the most part, new Vipers are only expensive compared to earlier generation Vipers.
Compared to equally performing sports cars they are pretty reasonable.
Not too sure the price of the Viper is going up, as much as the value of the dollar is going down. For people paying in Euro's they are even more of a bargain.
Compared to equally performing sports cars they are pretty reasonable.
Not too sure the price of the Viper is going up, as much as the value of the dollar is going down. For people paying in Euro's they are even more of a bargain.
mnc2886
Enthusiast
I think the value of the dollar is going down, but what I'm saying is if the value goes up, car manufacturers will raise their pricing in a linear fashion. They will presume if people can pay $100k in a bad economy, they will pay $125k in a good one.
Just like they think if people pay $75k for an Audi, they'll pay $68k for a Cadillac. In reality, all that happened was the dollar went down and Audi still wanted their money.
Complaints and comparissons with other cars has been here for a while and it grew silly and stupid for me long ago. I only had to read a couple of posts here and now I am saying this: THIS IS VIPER CLUB NOT ANY OTHER CAR CLUB AND THIS IS GEN V FORUM NOT ANYTHING ELSE.
If you keep whining about price, front grill, blah blah blah and talking about other brands, then get a grip of yourselves dramaqueens and go talk in the vettes/ferraris forums. blind me but the car is about to arrive and yet you find some none viper owners talking like their openion matters! you are not even intrested this much in the car.
If you keep whining about price, front grill, blah blah blah and talking about other brands, then get a grip of yourselves dramaqueens and go talk in the vettes/ferraris forums. blind me but the car is about to arrive and yet you find some none viper owners talking like their openion matters! you are not even intrested this much in the car.
chorps
Enthusiast
I drive my ACR everywhere I can, on my city's frost-heaved roads. Not a problem. I just don't take it to work because it draws too much attention. It's also obvious that you haven't a clue about driving the ACR either. Driving it at 8/10ths it will destroy most other cars going 10/10ths on the road or track, and you won't even break a sweat.
Driven harder and you will be alert but not scared unless you are in over your head...the ACR's limits are so high and the car so well behaved that it is almost too easy to go fast fearlessly. Having 1000lbs of downforce at 150mph on Pilot Sport Cups gives the ACR an almost unfair advantage. Go ahead and make John Deere comments all you want, that's a hater's game...comments like that are usually muttered by the guys choking on the dust left behind in the Viper's wake.
This.
And this. I will however be sorely disappointed if SRT does not release some sort of radical widebody ACR. ONLY because we've seen how much potential the body style has. GTS to GTS-R is greater than the sum of it's parts. Put $30k in parts (arbitrary) and get $300k in looks and performance.
mnc2886
Enthusiast
Don't tell them that, they'll try to charge it. I do agree the Gen V should cost more than a Gen IV, but skyrocketing past the cost of a Gen IV ACR was what bothered me. I still feel the base price on the SRT should have been $95k and GTS at $110k. Oh well, whats 10-11% more right?
emericr
Enthusiast
You should check the definition a car forum
ALL opinions are welcome whether you like or not.FLL-B/W-GTS
Enthusiast
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I will tell you this first hand.As the past owner of 3 Vipers,the last a Gen 4 and owner of a ZR1.The Porsche 911 Turbo S will just spank any of these newer performance cars.Including the 13 GTRs by a bit.My Turbo S runs 11.00 s all day long with out launch control and will do 10.80s with(Stock)it.I am getting a new Gen.5 ,but I do not expect it to be any were near as quick/fast in the quarter as the Turbo S and GTRs.Go drive one of the 4 wheel drives out of the dig with the twin turbos spooded up and let it go,you will see what I an taking about.
"Unfortunate that the Gen V will be so pricey". For the OP, that may be true in a sense since one's view of price has a large subjective component to it. Perhaps the OP needs to look at it a different way. The Gen V is not really "pricey". The OP just cannot afford it. In other words, the OP has allowed his expectations to exceed his pocket book - not an unusual phenomena in today's world. The OP should keep working hard and build up his net worth. As that occurs, his view of what is or is not "pricey" will change.
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BlackOutBoxing
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Gtr's are fast from a dead stop. From 60 to 130 an 08' viper will beat a 2013 gtr! Depends what u like. How often to you get a red light and look next to u and theres a good race? How offten are u doing 60mph on the highway and you see something good next to you?
SRT seems to be right on for base price. GTS base is $12,000 too expensive and the option prices are just a too excessive for what you get. $5.5K for stripes that would cost a body shop $1,000. I paid $3,000 for them on my GEN III from the factory and thought that was outrageous. Yes the new GEN GTS is too expensive and yes the OP and myself at the moment, could probably not afford one. Then again the car seems to be targeted towards the silver spooners and trust funders when you look a a full load GTS with gas guzzler, etc. at a total cost of almost 50% more than the outgoing GEN. I would say that is excessive. To say not, well you don't seem to worry about money. If you worked hard for it all your life, I have the utmost respect for you and I applaud you. If not, well............
mnc2886
Enthusiast
Well said. I've been killing myself at work for the last 4 years almost trying to get my family on the best possible financial path. The Viper was supposed to be for me. It was/is in my plan to get one and fulfill a dream I've had since I was 10. It ***** that now I have to pay almost 50% more than I would've on a gen IV just because it has all the stuff it should have had all along at $100k. Oh well...
Brian GTS
Enthusiast
Being a detailing fanatic, I was REALLY impressed with the quality of the paint on the Gen V at VOI, but just thought it was "primo" for showing off the car......kind of like how they dress up a fast food hamburger on TV!
When speaking with a couple of the engineers at VOI, we were told the finshed is spec'd to only one grade below a Bentley as far as "orange peel" goes. All panels are hand sanded and finished. Of course, the stripes are applied and then clear coated....can't even feel them....unlike previous generations. SO, I would expect the stripes to be more than 3K considering the facts....but I agree that it is a big chunk of change.
When speaking with a couple of the engineers at VOI, we were told the finshed is spec'd to only one grade below a Bentley as far as "orange peel" goes. All panels are hand sanded and finished. Of course, the stripes are applied and then clear coated....can't even feel them....unlike previous generations. SO, I would expect the stripes to be more than 3K considering the facts....but I agree that it is a big chunk of change.
What are you talking about? $92,735 was the base price of the 2009 SRT 10 Viper coupe. The base 2010 coupe was a bit less. But all had some options. Here is a link to the pricing and the options for 2010. 2010 Dodge Viper Price It With Options - MSN Autos
There is currently a Voodoo Edition 2010 AC R with 560 miles on it for sale for $107,995 in the Classifieds of this Forum and that is thousands below what the full retail price was. The Gen V SRT variant coupe is the closest thing to the last Gen IV regular coupe but is a more sophisticated and finished piece in many respects with more included in the base car due to a much improved interior, increased frame rigidity, composite and aluminum body parts, an improved engine, etc. Its base price, adjusted for inflation, is close to what the 2010 base coupe price was. There are a number of cars that I would like to own that I cannot afford. I do not consider them "pricey". I just cannot afford them. There is no shame in admitting that. Not everyone is Warren Buffett. There are some members who can afford to buy any car they want and as many cars as they want. I applaud their success.
There is currently a Voodoo Edition 2010 AC R with 560 miles on it for sale for $107,995 in the Classifieds of this Forum and that is thousands below what the full retail price was. The Gen V SRT variant coupe is the closest thing to the last Gen IV regular coupe but is a more sophisticated and finished piece in many respects with more included in the base car due to a much improved interior, increased frame rigidity, composite and aluminum body parts, an improved engine, etc. Its base price, adjusted for inflation, is close to what the 2010 base coupe price was. There are a number of cars that I would like to own that I cannot afford. I do not consider them "pricey". I just cannot afford them. There is no shame in admitting that. Not everyone is Warren Buffett. There are some members who can afford to buy any car they want and as many cars as they want. I applaud their success.
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Alabaster Mamba
Enthusiast
Well all I can say is that once again SRT has shown and provided a car that makes any owner know what it feels like to be a Rock Star. When I first saw the Gen IV I compared it to ******. Now the Gen V comes along and I would say it is like ****** on steroids.
As far as expensive, it is all relevant. To some it can be considered cheap and to others way too expensive. But, too all, the Gen V should be considered one bad SOB!!!
As far as expensive, it is all relevant. To some it can be considered cheap and to others way too expensive. But, too all, the Gen V should be considered one bad SOB!!!
Don't tell them that, they'll try to charge it. I do agree the Gen V should cost more than a Gen IV, but skyrocketing past the cost of a Gen IV ACR was what bothered me. I still feel the base price on the SRT should have been $95k and GTS at $110k. Oh well, whats 10-11% more right?
I understand where you are coming from, to an extent. To me the SRT base price is right in line with what it should be. The GTS optioned out however is absurd. That's new ACR territory. Have no fear, IMHO, once the excitement and dust settles loaded GTSs will be selling for invoice. A $135k Viper isn't gonna do well for long. The market will ultimately determine it's selling price, not the manufacturer. It reminds me of Lamborghini asking close to $500k for the Aventador...an exotic getting too close to supercar price for comfort...a "mass produced" exotic at that. It was no surprise to me when a buddy of mine was offered a new Aventador for well under $400k fully loaded, now that the newness has worn off. Ultimately he passed and got an SV.
PS. A GTS-R style ACR would be worth every penny of $150k. For those who want a bargain racer get the SRT with the track pack and aero package.
I'm thinking that you are not aware of Woodhouse Dodge or Bill P. for that matter. Many advertise a used Viper, as Woodhouse delivered, as a selling point even.
I really doubt pro drivers testing a car, get the living **** scared out of them...what good would they be? (don't need to answer that)
Go buy a GT-R... and so you know, saw a real nice one last weekend. Hardly anyone really noticed it, parked in a group of Vettes.
elanderholm
Enthusiast
+1. I often drive my acr to work though. Kids love it and people seem to get a kick out of it. I put almost 8000 miles on it last year and I have another much more sensible car I can drive. The viper is just a lot more fun.
A gtr is going to do 0-60 faster more often then not. It has more traction at low speeds; just a fact and one I don't care about. I don't race people...well ever. I drive the car how I want and I track it when I have a chance. I don't get in dick measuring contests...they are just stupid and I find only insecure people really care about showing someone else up.
elanderholm
Enthusiast
Just go buy a Gen IV then. Why do you think you should of gotten all the stuff for $100k? Find me one other car with the performance envelope of the viper and with an interior like this car for $100k. Then, add in how easy they are to work on and how affordable most consumables are, minus tires and the viper just can't be beat. You are in a dream world if you think you are going to find any porsche, audi etc that has all these things for $100k. Go price a GTR transmission. The viper is about 100X better looking then a GTR too and much more rare. The interior on the new one is light years ahead of a GTR too. It's a special car and at 100-125k it's a bargin.
Ultimately the market will determine the price. We will all have to wait and see if it's actually overpriced.
Most of the folks on this forum wouldn't notice a GTR in a parking lot if their Viper ran over one. Not because there are no car guys here, but because it looks like every other tuner car out there. I only noticed one the other day because it was parked way out by itself taking up 2 slots. I thought to myself, why would some yahoo park his little tuner out here, who cares. If didn't have to walk by i would never had known what it was. Why did I waste this much time even commenting on one.
patgilm
Enthusiast
I like the GTR and I am considering getting one but at least SRT isn't (yet) doing what they did. They came out in 09 for high $70k's and the has increased incrementally from then until now to a total of $20k and now the MSRP is high $90K's with small improvements. You also have to look at maintenance costs of the GTR, just the cost of the tranny fluid and brakes makes cringe. You also aren't getting any big discounts off of MSRP for a GTR so that is BS.
I personally think that SRT properly priced the Viper for what you are getting. You can get a base SRT model for a little over $100k with decent options that are comparable to what you are getting in the GTR with comparable performance. Comparing the GTS to a Z06 or a GTR is comparing apples to oranges, neither of these has the interior/exterior/audio packages that the GTS has.
I personally think that SRT properly priced the Viper for what you are getting. You can get a base SRT model for a little over $100k with decent options that are comparable to what you are getting in the GTR with comparable performance. Comparing the GTS to a Z06 or a GTR is comparing apples to oranges, neither of these has the interior/exterior/audio packages that the GTS has.
