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VCA Drama: what are the known facts?

Discussion in 'General Viper Discussion' started by Free2go, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    Dan is not threatening anything now. He included a prior, private communication to Maurice which contained the language you reference. But rather than dwell on that, how about commenting on post 25 above regarding the role of those Board members who recently left, voluntarily or involuntarily, over the last five years or so in creating the problems now being addressed. I will ask again, do you think that three weeks of rhetoric and reckless accusations lets them off the hook for whatver their part was while they were still on the VCA Board? It is a standard defense ploy to advise a Board member to resign when it hits the fan and then have her or him, if possible, claim " I did not know" or " I did know and didn't realize the seriousness of it" or " I was only a director in name only". Guess what? That's all BS. Each of the departing people knew or had an affirmative duty to know what was going on a long time ago. So did anyone else that was a Board member at any time during the past five years or so. Those who buy into the righteous indignation of those who departed are very naive. The stand up thing for them to do is come back and help the current Board repair the VCA. It might not serve their own personal interests as well but it would serve the 3000 or so VCA members well.
     
  2. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Lawyers ruin the hobby.

    This is a hobby, isn't it?
     
  3. madninjaskillz

    madninjaskillz Enthusiast

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    Lawyers ruin everything.
     
  4. gtssnake

    gtssnake Viper Owner

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    Some of my best friends are lawyers but I tell them all the time when they put their lawyer hat on is when i have to leave the room.
     
  5. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    You are 100% correct. The VCA is a club. Lawyers did not cause the problems being dealt with now. Egos did. Those same egos can suck it up and come back and help the VCA move forward instead of trying to destroy it as indicated by the somewhat hyped up allegations, tone and inferences in their 9/18 FAQ release. It is one thing to start a new club. It is an entirely different thing to willfully and vindictively try to destroy the VCA. That action betrays their true motives which, to me, appear to be to just have part of the same old crowd, with a somewhat altered message, take over the assets of the VCA at no cost to them. How is any of that in the interest of the members of the VCA? As far as Chrysler is concerned, I do not believe, contrary to the allegation in the FAQs referenced above, that the VCA's relationship with Chrysler is permanently broken and nothing in the Chrysler letter said that. The letter pointed out two areas that required VCA attention. Both have been, and are, being addressed as indicated by posts of the new Board. I would like to know the source of any information to the contrary, if any, that was obtained since it is my understanding that Chrysler has decided to remain above the fray.
     
  6. JLorello

    JLorello Viper Owner

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    Bob, I ask you to please a read Dan's posts yourself to be able to present factual information. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

    Maurice was clearly not invited back as VP. From the letter:

    "Not sure what position"

    "Whatever we can work out"

    "What our new team decides"

    He was asked to sign a legal document without knowing which position he will return to and be at the will of the new BOD. It is an insult and a slap in the face.
     
  7. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Bob, how about you start a poll and see what the "members of the VCA" are interested in. Are they interested in pursuing litigation against some former VCA members who are disgruntled about the situation? Likely not. I'm not. The BOD doesn't speak for me. The BOD speaking in behalf of the entire club is one of the reasons the situation occurred in the first place. How about we start taking public votes in the VCA member forum, any time there is an action on the table? Wouldn't that make more sense? This is a members club, after all. Should the VCA decide to pursue legal action, did they get membership approval to spend the club funds for legal representation, or are you offering it up for free? Again, that should be public (club) information.

    At the end of the day, the MEMBERS of any club just want to have fun and socialize with other people that share the same passion. It seems many of you have forgotten that simple fact. They couldn't care less what acronym is on their membership card. If you really want to save the VCA, then relax and let things happen on their own. Making threats and taking a legal stance doesn't paint a nice picture. Who would choose to be a part of a club that thinks like that? I just want to talk about cars. I'll go wherever the more relaxed atmosphere is, where the club is about the cars we love.

    So, allow me to correct myself.

    Lawyers and money ruin the hobby.
     
  8. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    All posts made by me on this site are in my capacity as Un Viejo Pedo. There is no current threat of litigation being made that I am aware of and I do not think that would be helpful. I also do not think that the FAQs released on 9/18 were helpul. They seemed far less than friendly and spiteful to me. I suggested in a thread recently that when the new Board gets up to speed that they have a Board Chat like the SRT Engineers have and then periodically use that method of communication as needed. I agree with the rest of your post. It is a club. So how about everyone chilling out a bit; coming together; and, sorting out what needs to be done and getting that done? On a less serious note, I have been dying to ask you where you get your pants made. You're Avatar seems to indicate a unique physical architecture.
     
  9. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Origin of thy username:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    Tatoos? Seriously, I assumed that but I could not resist the humor.
     
  11. Carslo

    Carslo Guest

    Still moderated on my 351carlo account. It looks like a complete "Moderated Users" group has been made, so as to disallow us the ability to even view the "Members Only" sections in the Forums Directory.

    The amount of people who are still moderated is astounding. There is still a quest to silence the dissenters, and the threat of a lawsuit to who SHOULD be president is pathetic.

    If, as a car club, the BOD and "executives" need to hide behind Non-disclosure agreements, Conflict of Interest forms and other legal documents, there is clearly too much money involved going to the wrong place.

    There is a motivation behind every action, and I cannot see how a non-profit car club would threaten a lawsuit against another enthusiast organization or the people forming such an organization just for the heck of it.
     
  12. balance

    balance Viper Owner

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    Are you "in between" Avatars? Where is this avatar - "You're Avatar seems to indicate a unique physical architecture" - that Bob speaketh?

    Off topic; another thing that may help what's left of the VCA is to loosen up on the avatar criteria. My first communication from the VCA was Lee reprimanding me for having an avatar that wasn't "Viper related". (Seriously? Very little creativity required.)
     
  13. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    A "car club" suing someone they kicked out of the club

    Hilarious

    You all do realize that it opens the VCA up to discovery, correct?
     
  14. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    I'd also love to know what money the VCA will be using to sue Maurice.
     
  15. TowDawg

    TowDawg Viper Owner

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    The VCA will never sue anyone. Even if they had the money, as ViperSmith said, everything would have to be put on the table in discovery. We all know that isn't going to happen. Hell, we can't even get simple answers to the raffle answered. Do you really think that is everything that's being hidden?
    As for Maurice and others who were kicked out, or saw the issues coming to light and bailed, "trying to destroy the VCA". Ummmmm, I think that dedication is reserved for a few others who actually tried to drive it into the ground to prevent things being made public.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  16. Free2go

    Free2go Viper Owner

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    I went to a car show recently and saw this guy flipping out...yelling and screaming at one of the organizers of the show. Turns out, the guy flipping out was upset because he and his wife brought two cars to the show and the organizers, in an effort to make judging easier, set the show up to have certain cars parked in specific places to make the judging easier. Because of this, his wife and her car were going to be approximately 100 meters away from him. He yelled...he screamed...he threw stuff around...he threatened to boycott the show forever. He then packed up his stuff and sped away. I personally thought it was a great show. There are people complaining about VCA and the complaints appear petty to new comers. When I paid my dues, I paid to access the site and all the benefits therein. I DON'T give a crap if my dues are spent snorting coke off a whores butt in Vegas....but I DO know one thing: If you want to know the true nature of the situation, you have to follow the money. I think this is more about Chrysler and supporting vendors than any petty censoring...IMO.
     
  17. TrackAire

    TrackAire Viper Owner

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    Snorting coke in Vegas leaves less money for benefits to the club. To me the lack of financials and audit trails is a real issue, one that makes me wonder what I was denied as a paying member.

    On another note, please let me know the next time you'll be in Vegas. ;)

    Cheers,
    George
     
  18. Paul Hawker

    Paul Hawker Viper Owner

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    From my stand point it seems like things are going in a positive way on both fronts.

    Dan is facing the situation he has been placed in straight on. He is listening to the membership and making a ton of changes to restructure the club in a more positive way.
    Believe forum moderation came before Dan became VP, and he is taking a fresh look at that issue, and indeed has restored posting privledges to many.

    Maurice is looking at other options and is leaning towards putting together a fresh, new club.

    Seems like both these strategies should result in a better club for most.

    Some of the arguments, while valid seem to be red herrings, just used to attack one or another of the groups.

    Most of the Presidents I have spoken to wish only for the contraversery to be over with, and get back to having lots of cool events for their membership.

    Hope the vicious sniping will calm down.
     
  19. Free2go

    Free2go Viper Owner

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    There will always be people upset over how the money is spent. Some people might quit the VCA over which charity got money. People are gonna be pissed no matter what. This site is a forum. That's why people are here. People who own or want to own a Viper are here talking with other owners. It's a group of people who ultimately have something in common. I got this cool magazine and a badge with my name on it in the mail! Hell I'm happy! Might even upgrade to Venom class after the first of the year! All the drama? Piss on it. Just keep the site running. There's all kinds of DIY stuff on here and Viper related info...THAT alone is worth my money.
     
  20. 2001-V10 Power Nut

    2001-V10 Power Nut Enthusiast

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    Well said "Free2go". Probably 90% of the people on this site could care less about the inner workings of this club. I'm on the site 3-4 times a month, and up until 2 weeks ago knew none of this was going on. As a car enthusiast, I enjoy the site, enjoy the local events, and really enjoy the VOI's. It sounds the VCA is correcting or at least trying to correct past wrongs. That's all any of us can ask for as members of the VCA. If a 2nd club does come out of this, I just hope that all the Viper owners/clubs can get along for the well being of the club. It would be a shame to see the greatest car club around go under. It sounds like we are headed in the right direction.
     
  21. TowDawg

    TowDawg Viper Owner

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    The $150 doesn't mean crap to anyone here. It's the principle of certain people doing shady and very possibly illegal things. A lot of what has gotten out seems to be true, from the silence on those issues from even the new officers and BOD. The raffle is especially concerning and could actually bring down the club (not just those individuals who handled it) by itself with legal ramifications. Add on the other possible "irregularities", plus who knows what else is still hidden behind closed doors, and there may not even be anywhere left for you to send that $150.
    The other huge draw for the VCA was the special relationship with SRT, which is 100% gone. With the people still in positions of power here, and the relationships of the people who have left have with SRT, I would think it's pretty easy to see who SRT will go with. One of the biggest issues (besides trying to get Ralph fired) was that of Chris Marshall. Guess what, he's still running the VPA. He needs to be cut from anything having to do with the VCA or VPA (including any type of membership) for anyone to even begin to believe things are changing.
     
  22. Richard Koch

    Richard Koch Enthusiast

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    I think VCA made a big mistake when they decided to have a fore profit business. There has been a minimum o transparency and the "petty censorship" has progressed to the point where my Washington regional president is not allowed to post on the forum. Yes, it is petty, like a lot of the other things going on. I also like the DIY and other things. I just will not allow the club to go from a CAR CLUB to something else. Anyone who has their ear to the ground knows that some shady things are happening. I know that people have continually asked details about the raffle and nothing has come out. If it is legitimate then release the details and prove the others wrong. The burden of proof is on the newly formed BOD. They talk a good story, but I haven't seen much substance.
     
  23. madninjaskillz

    madninjaskillz Enthusiast

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    Agreed. Some people just don't get it. They would rather stick their heads in the sand and see their club sink like the Titanic.
     
  24. AZTVR

    AZTVR Enthusiast

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    I say this respectfully as possible. I believe that you are also one of the people who just don't get it. There appears to be a significant number of people that own Vipers who only care about sharing the car guy experience. They care nothing about the politics of the car club. They will probably lose nothing if the VCA evaporates as long as the VOA does not. That's assuming that their local club will associate themselves with one or the other and switch if one dissolves.

    If no one was building the VOA, I believe that the VCA would right itself through the changes that are progressing; BUT, it would still have a significant number of disenchanted Viper owners that would not want to be associated with it based on "political" issues and past bad experiences that have destroyed the VCA's credibility, no matter who is in charge.

    If the VCA dissolved, and the VOA is up amd running, virtually everyone would have a club they can support. Perhaps maybe 2-4 people would not?

    This is what I think is the reason that the Viper owners are better served by a new , fresh start without any baggage.

    I think that a lot of the VERY vocal anti-VCA crowd are saying this; but, because there is a lot of anger and maliciousness in many posts, the underlying message is obscured.
     
  25. madninjaskillz

    madninjaskillz Enthusiast

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    So you're saying I don't get it, but are agreeing with me? Btw, being anti-corruption doesn't make me anti-VCA. I don't know you, sir, and you don't know me. So making blanket statements does not serve to further your narrative. People seem to have a need for grandstanding on forums to (perhaps) further their inadequancies in daily life. I am hopeful that a good club will remain that is dedicated to having fun with people based on our mutual interests and passions. One last thing, politics are a part of everything my friend; whether you're dealing with 5 or 5 million.
     
  26. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    You are not correct. If you did more due diligence, you would see Jerry Colpitts' post under the thread "What do you think?" Jerry posted the following letter from the Board. Note the part I have blocked and underlined. I try to do my research and, as much as possible, post correct data. I suggest that others do the same. Emotions and anger do not help solve anything.

    September 12, 2013
    Dear Presidents and Members,
    The VCA …..Moving forward!!
    Good afternoon everyone, you have all heard by now that Lee Stubberfield submitted his written
    resignation as President of the VCA on Tuesday Sept 10th. The VCA is planning to hold a special
    election in January 2014 at the annual President’s meeting to elect new national officers. Dan Everts,
    formerly our national treasurer since April 2013, will be acting president until the January election. The
    BOD had our first conference call last night and already many of the issues plaguing the club are being
    addressed. No issues or stones will be left unturned. Let us review with you the positive steps the VCA
    is taking starting from DAY 1 with our new President:
     Dan Everts sent Maurice Liang an email dated Sept. 11, 2013 offering to reinstate him as an officer
    in the VCA. Dan sent the email to Maurice because a written statement received from our club’s
    attorney, Bill Corum stated, “it is unclear to me whether he (Maurice) was properly removed from
    the BOD by the actions of yesterday”. We, as a Board of Directors, recognized that we must now
    consider that Maurice was not properly removed, has been and is still a current officer in the
    VCA. We are suggesting that Maurice serve as our Vice President, rather than his former position as
    Secretary. Some of you may not be aware, but Lee Stubberfield had suspended Maurice the day
    prior. As of this letter, the email has been sent and we are awaiting Maurice’s reply.

     Dan Everts personally made a phone call to Jon Brobst of PartsRack on Tuesday. It has been
    discovered that Jon B was not mailed a copy of the letter stating that he could apply for
    reinstatement to the club on July 1. The VCA will agree to certain behavior, as will Mr. Brobst, and
    a legal document will be prepared for both parties to sign. Upon completion of this agreement,
    PartsRack will again be allowed to advertise in Viper Magazine, on the VCA website and Jon B will
    again be a member in good standing with the VCA.
     The letter from Pat Dougherty at Mopar dated Aug.20th asked for a separation of Chris Marshall,
    Viper Parts of America and Coast to Coast Management (Mary Marshall), stating a conflict of
    interest. Chris has made the decision to stay with the Viper Parts of America. The contract with
    Coast to Coast expires on Sept.30th. This contract will not be renewed and Coast to Coast has agreed
    to stay on, in a month to month basis, until January 1, 2014. We thank Coast to Coast for their
    support and understanding. Greg Crouse from the SW Zone has offered to accept the responsibility
    of obtaining bids for a new management company going forward. John Mavridis has offered to help
    Greg with this task. We understand that one of the key elements to our success going forward is our
    relationship with Chrysler, because of this, we are making the above changes to remove any
    potential conflict for Mopar in the management of their parts business (which they cited in the
    August 20th letter as a concern for them,) and we will review these changes with the Chrysler team to
    ensure we are on the right track.
     Financial disclosure of the VPA was discussed and they will be given 60 days to begin making
    quarterly and annual financial reports to the VCA, as well as a year-to-date for 2013. Dan has
    requested they get their parts inventory and bookkeeping on Quick Books or an equivalent
    system. Year-end VPA financial reports will be made available to the regional Presidents at the
    annual President’s meetings as they were last year.
    LETTER: PRESIDENTS AND MEMBERS,
    MOVING FORWARD
    SEPTEMBER 12, 2013
    2 | P a g e
     The new board and officers are keenly aware that the presidents want, and should have, a greater
    voice in the direction of the club. Gathering thirty plus (30+) presidents to vote on day to day issues
    and general club business could be daunting. The national board and officers are going to commit to
    meet with their zone presidents, minimum twice a year, and prior to national board meetings, so that
    they can represent the views and the majority of their zones. As well, we will examine changing the
    by-laws to bring the presidents in to vote on major issues facing the club when they arise.
     John Canal offered to start working on the location of our next venue for VOI 13. Since the last one
    was in Charlotte, NC it is agreed that the Viper Owners Invitational slated for the fall of 2014 will be
    in the Western or Central United States, please email him with your suggestions or comments and
    ideas. ([email protected])
     We are happy to report that the raffle has been completed! The original winner of the car was
    ineligible to receive it, and the second place winner has been awarded the first place prize—imagine
    his delight when he was told that he won the 2013 Viper! The third place winner has been awarded
    the #2 prize, and so on. A new drawing was made and videotaped for the third prize and everyone
    has been notified!
     Dan Everts will be working on the next raffle car, and he will be calling Pat at Mopar in a few days
    to report all of these timely changes to him. We are certain that Pat will be pleased at the progress
    that has been made in such a short time!
    I am sure you will agree as you have read this that we all deserve to give Dan, Fredi, hopefully Maurice
    and our new Board of Directors a chance to fix all of this. The majority of you asked for Lee to step down
    and he did. You asked for Chris Marshall to make a choice between VPA and Coast to Coast…he has!
    You asked for us to work on competitive bids for a new management company – it’s being done! You
    have asked for us to work on repairing our relationship with Mopar – it is all in the works as you can see.
    Everyone wants to work with a board that offers transparency and a full financial disclosure of the VPA
    will be available in 60 days or less.
    We are welcoming your suggestions on how to improve the VCA, so please take a moment to send us
    your thoughts as to how we can be even better moving forward. There is no other club like the VCA in
    the World, but of late, we have become stricken with politics. These officers and this board are
    committed to putting the club back on track and getting back to the members and having fun with the
    cars. We sincerely hope that those that are considering leaving this great club do what this board and
    these officers did last night, put the past where it belongs, in the PAST. Let’s all come together and get
    all four tires firmly back on the track.
    Putting our members first.
    Sincerely,
    Dan Everts
    Fredi Spaltenstein
    John Canal
    Greg Crouse
    Ronne R. Kooser
    John Mavridis
    Cathy Smiley ​






     
  27. MoparMap

    MoparMap VCA National President

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    What happens if the new club comes about and VCA fixes all of the issues that have been going on as well? Then you'll have two clubs with the exact same goal doing the same stuff. The only reason people would be a part of one over the other might be because of past issues they've had. Realistically, I don't think Chrysler can take sides in the matter if things get sorted out. If the VCA restructures based on some of the issues that SRT had, then as a company they can't really pick a side. I would think that, from a business standpoint, if they pick a side they alienate all the people they didn't pick, so they potentially lose a lot of sales. It's one thing if the whole company truly has an issue, it's another if it's just a few personal grudges determining who gets support.
     
  28. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    Good observation. Not only can they not pick sides, but they would be very foolish to give the appearance in any manner of favoring anyone even during the "repair period". I am sure that they know that. The bigger picture, and the most important picture to Chrysler, is selling cars. That is what they are in business to do.

     
  29. luc

    luc Viper Owner

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    Bob. Thank you for posting Dan letter here. I read it on the Alley and frankly this letter, at least in my opinion, is not helping the VCA. There is always 2 sides to a story and in this case, 2 ways to read this letter. here is mine: I was a board member but did not care, saw or was sleeping at the wheel or, even worst, agreed with the way the VCA was run. Now that the s%^t has hit the fan I'm a new man dedicated to openness, fairness and, can well all get along now????. The only reason I sent a letter to Maurice is because my lawyer is telling me that he was not "correctly" fired. Not that it was wrong to fire him. Same thing with JonB, technicalities. But this time I'm going to make sure that he behave the way I want by making him sign an agreement. I have solved the conflict of interest issues than Mopar had with Chris. Chris decided to choose the "money side" by staying with VPA. I know that Chris has a big part of responsibility in the issues that the VCA is facing but, his family need to eat, especially now that his wife and son are loosing their sweet deal income with the club. That's why, because I'm a man with a big heart that I decided to let Chris stay and make money. Can we all get along now? And BTW, we are going to change the by-laws, but not too much, we don't want someone new, from the outside, just a 'regular" member to be able to be elected for National office/President. Heck, that could be dangerous, he/she could have some fresh/new ideas. We also know that there isn't a single members smart enough to run the club without first spending years being groomed by us.
     
  30. TrackAire

    TrackAire Viper Owner

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    luc,

    Spot on, you've brought up the points concerning 90% of the VCA current and past members clearly and in a concise fashion. Honestly, I can't see anything going forward for the good of the VCA until all these points are addressed.

    And if they are addressed and facts are brought forward that show improprieties have been committed, those that were in power at the time cannot stay in power regardless of what promises and "fixes" are done going into the future. This is where I see the biggest road block to the VCA's future. Nothing will be able to move forward without starting with a completely clean slate.

    Cheers,
    George
     

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