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Watch out for the new E15 gasoline.

Discussion in 'General Viper Discussion' started by Lawrenzo, May 16, 2012.

  1. Lawrenzo

    Lawrenzo Enthusiast

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    The EPA has our best interests in mind I'm sure. Thanks, but I'd rather spend the extra 5cents a gallon thank you very much. How long until they outlaw premium gas :rolleyes:




    When looking to fill up your tank, would you drive farther to pay more? Randy Hake's customers are doing just that, since he's the only gas station in York County, Pa., selling "pure" ethanol-free fuel.
    "I get 20.1 miles to the gallon, in-town driving. I used to get 13," said Sue Cannon who drives 20 miles to Hake's from her home in Hanover, Pa.
    Studies show straight gasoline gets 2 to 10 percent better gas mileage than fuel made with ethanol, an alcohol produced from corn. It costs about 20 cents more per gallon at the pump, but Cannon says paying more up front is worth it down the road. She started using "pure gas" five weeks ago, after paying $12,000 for repairs on her 2005 Nissan Pathfinder.
    "I had to change two radiators and two transmissions," said Cannon, who blames the damage on ethanol.
    Right now, gasoline sold at more than 95 percent of filling stations in the U.S. contains 10 percent ethanol, a blend known as E-10.
    Ethanol was first added to gasoline 30 years ago. Bob Dinneen, CEO of the Renewable Fuels Association, says it's an American success story, utilizing fuel sources like corn, reducing our dependence on foreign oil and reducing gas prices by $1.09 a gallon in 2011.
    “Ethanol is an American-made product," Dinneen said. "We are creating jobs here. We are creating economic opportunity here. We are lowering gasoline prices here, as opposed to a pure gasoline that is lining the pockets of regimes in parts of the world that don’t like us very much.”
    Now, the ethanol debate is heating up.
    The ethanol industry petitioned the Environmental Protection Agency to add 5 percent more ethanol to fuel, creating a mix known as E-15. The EPA recently approved it for use in cars made since 2001.
    Proponents say E-15 will save drivers 5 cents more a gallon and is expected to be available as early as this summer.
    However, a newly released two-year study suggests millions of cars and light trucks being driven today may not be able to handle the new fuel blend.
    "Ethanol attracts water, and that can result in corrosion in the system," said Rayola Dougher from the American Petroleum Institute. "We're hitting what they're calling a blend wall, where you're required to use ever greater volumes of ethanol in the gas distribution system but it goes beyond what the cars are being designed for. And this is particularly an issue with E-15."
    The study, sponsored by the oil industry group and automakers, tested eight engines found in millions of cars currently on U.S. roads. The study found two of the eight malfunctioned and suffered significant damage while fueled by E-15.
    The U.S. Department of Energy, which tested E-15 on vehicles prior to the EPA's decision, disputes the study, calling it "unreliable and incomplete".
    The American Petroleum Institute accuses the federal government of the same, and it is suing the EPA to force more research before E-15 becomes available at gas stations this summer. A decision is expected in June.
    Regardless, Randy Hake says you won't find any corn-based gas products for sale at his filling station.
    "We need to put it in our stomachs and our animals stomachs, rather than our gas tanks," Hake said.


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/1...-more-costly-pure-gas-stations/#ixzz1v5TiwLSw
     
  2. eucharistos

    eucharistos Enthusiast

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    it is the devil's brew

    :nono:

    :usa:
     
  3. Chuck 98 RT/10

    Chuck 98 RT/10 Enthusiast

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    Immediately following 9/11 I supported any fuel source that reduced dependency on the Middle East. Then I came to the realization that the U.S. and Great Britain researched, discovered and developed for them, their only worthwhile source of revenue and to this day they still cannot stick a pipe in the ground without western technology. So while they still continue to hoard their profits and have only recently made a few relatively meager charitable contributions to humanity around the world, I have a new policy. In short, it involves telling them how much oil they will produce, who they can sell it to and for how much. If they don't like those conditions they can sit in their gold plated Mercedes and pout.
     
  4. TowDawg

    TowDawg Enthusiast

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    Luckily I've got one station in town that still sells "no ethanol" gas (premium only). I try to fill the Viper whenever I need gas. The best part is that his prices aren't any higher than the other stations.
     
  5. PJ9454

    PJ9454 Viper Owner

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    Ethanol infused fuels will not effect your radiator or your transmission. Thats irresponsible reporting.
     
  6. bluesrt

    bluesrt Enthusiast

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    what a bunch of dum asses in that news flash, thay need to be written a ticket for publishing something so stupid
     
  7. MoparBoyy

    MoparBoyy Enthusiast

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    except, E15 gas will burn hotter than E10 or pure fuel... transmission uses engine coolant to keep it cool.. its a HUGE stretch.. but ya it would not really effect those systems.

    the bigger problem is that Corn prices are sky rocketing because of this. more people are actually going hungry, cattle feed prices are going up. effectively more ehthonal fuels make for more starving people across the world. poor country's who use corn as cheap food can no longer afford it.
     
  8. VYPR BYT 94

    VYPR BYT 94 Enthusiast

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    :chairfall::lmao2:
     
  9. DarcShadow

    DarcShadow Viper Owner

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    But that's a good thing for the farmers growing the corn that have been barely scraping by. It'll balance out but another problem that no one is really aware of is soybeans. Becasue corn is paying farms much better than soybeans, less and less farmers are planing soybeans. It's actually more cost effective for them to grow corn, treat the fields to replace the nutrients and grow corn again the following year. Supply and Demand will eventually sort it all out and things will be back to normal regarding prices, maybe a bit higher but nothing crazy.
     
  10. eucharistos

    eucharistos Enthusiast

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    agree, if we had a free market, but sadly, not anymore :usa:
     
  11. PJ9454

    PJ9454 Viper Owner

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  12. DrumrBoy

    DrumrBoy Enthusiast

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    Methinks ethanol is hydroscopic so depending on storage, concentration, humidity etc you're introducing more variables into your tune than you would have if you just ran straight gasoline.
     
  13. PJ9454

    PJ9454 Viper Owner

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    HyGroscopic and yes it is. It has poor cold start properties and is corrosive, especially if it absorbs some water.
     
  14. MoparBoyy

    MoparBoyy Enthusiast

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    government also glosses this factor;

    E15 - less MPG than E10 or Pure, for the same price per gallon.. yay lets add more ethanol! so americans are spending even MORE money at the pump, which then equals more tax dollars!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. mjorgensen Woodhouse

    mjorgensen Woodhouse Enthusiast

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  16. Lawrenzo

    Lawrenzo Enthusiast

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    If you have a 4+ year old car it's already out of warranty anyway, so about 80% of the car owners out there could be screwed big time if this new gas blend proves damaging. I'm going to start paying much more attention at the pump from now on!
     
  17. Leojmcca

    Leojmcca Enthusiast

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    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  18. eucharistos

    eucharistos Enthusiast

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    good link, thanks

    none around me :(
     
  19. v10enomous

    v10enomous Enthusiast

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    They should offer the ethanol and the non-ethanol and let people choose. Let the tree huggers put this crap in their tank. Why do they always feel empowered to impose their will on everybody else. Banish these people to cities that run on wind and solar too. It's amazing how these indoctrinated sheeple can't think for themselves. At this point since I have no choice in NJ I periodically run Techron through all of my gas powered stuff.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. cash84

    cash84 Viper Owner

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    I have a friend that runs on E85 in his mits. EVO and creates a lot more power over straight gas.

    Down side

    Horrible cold start
    Smells funny (not bad but not good)
    Way worst milage (used to get like 30mpg and now maybe 21-22mpg)
    Prices are getting close to what straight gas cost


    It's a joke what they have out there now.
     
  21. GTS Dean

    GTS Dean Enthusiast

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    Let's look at some more charts, since you brought it up:

    In Texas - as in almost all other states, fuel taxes are fixed, and do not increase with retail fuel price.

    [​IMG]

    The portion of your gas tax that goes to the federal Highway Trust Fund is 18.4 cents/gallon - and it has remained exactly the same level since 1993. Below are all the sources of revenue to the HTF:

    [​IMG]

    This is what has been happening to our fuel and tire taxes (on the federal level) over the past 20 years and 3 authorization bills. The only thing driving increases in the funding has been increased consumption - and that fell flat in 2008: The gap between the blue line and the lavender bar is the amount of underfunding of the highway program relative to its revenues. The short maroon bars are where the balance has gone (transit/bike/pedestrian, other).


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  22. Lawrenzo

    Lawrenzo Enthusiast

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    Seems the manufacturers want no part of E15 either.

    The ethanol gasoline blend known as E10 has already caused concern and hesitation, especially among owners of vehicles not designed to run the fuel, and despite the mounting questions over its use, the Environmental Protection Agency last summer approved the use of E15 gasoline, increasing the amount of ethanol in pump gasoline. Two bills recently introduced in Congress, however, seek to suspend that approval.
    House Bill 875 and Senate Bill 344 address concerns with the destructive byproduct of the higher ethanol additive, formic acid, which can contaminate fuel systems, melt plastic and rubber and corrode some metals. The EPA began allowing gas dispensaries to offer E15-laced gasoline in June of last year, and the Renewable Fuels Association has stated that the E15 blend was extensively tested by the EPA before approving its use and is safe for virtually all vehicles manufactured after 2001.
    However, with the implementation of E15-based fuels, many new car manufacturers have weighed in on the subject, with producers such as Nissan, Chrysler, Toyota, BMW and Volkswagen announcing that they will not cover fuel-related claims on their new car warranties. Other companies like Ford, Mercedes and Volvo will not honor any drivetrain warranties in vehicles that use E15. AAA (Automotive Association of America) has also issued statements that further testing of the E85 blend is needed and that the labeling on refueling pumps is insufficient to warn consumers of the possible damage that could occur with the E15 blend.
    Both bills have the backing of SEMA, and the wording of each bill differs slightly. HB875 asks that the use of E15 be suspended for an additional 18 months while more testing is done. The Senate bill would suspend the sale of E15 entirely. SEMA is especially concerned for classic car enthusiasts whose cars see less road miles over the course of a year and allow the fuel to sit idle inside their fuel systems for even longer periods of time. The same concerns should also apply to anyone who owns a lawn mower, chain saw, weed trimmer, motorcycle, boat, snowmobile or ATV as all of these machines also sit idly by for extended periods of inactivity. The lack of use and infrequent refilling of the fuel system is where most of the problems have occurred to date.
    HB875 has been referred to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, while SB344 has been referred to the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works.
    SEMA urges you to contact your Senator or House Representative to express your opinions on these bills. A list of contacts for your lawmakers is available on the SEMA Action Network page.
     
  23. Grisoman

    Grisoman Enthusiast

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    Diverting food to fuel can never be good in the long term.
     
  24. VIPERUSA

    VIPERUSA Enthusiast

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  25. VIPERUSA

    VIPERUSA Enthusiast

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    http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/93/123/lang,en/

    I have been running it in my Ram SRT/10 the last couple of months, amazing improvement

    i can't wait to run it in the Viper when it comes out of hybernation

    if you try it,, run the diesel startron blend, I called the company to see if it works on gas engine's OK,, they said it does.. the diesel treats 2X the gallons for just a couple of $ more per bottle,, with all my vehicles,,I bought a gallon diesel bottle,,, 1 oz treats 32 gallons

    :usa::usa::usa:
     
  26. chorps

    chorps Enthusiast

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  27. VIPERUSA

    VIPERUSA Enthusiast

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    I can get it locally,, which I did just to try it,, when I saw how good it worked on all my vehicles, I bought a gallon,, from a boat supply web site out of Fl. they were the cheapest, but it took 10 days to get because it got shipped from Wa. it works
     
  28. djviper

    djviper Enthusiast

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    I've never quite understood why the average American thinks it puts us at a strategic disadvantage to use up our enemies natural resources instead of our own.

    As long as other countries are willing to sell us their resources at a fair price we should keep buying; saving our own for a rainy day.
     
  29. SuperBird4404BBL

    SuperBird4404BBL Enthusiast

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    The ethanol gasoline blend known as E10 has already caused concern and hesitation, especially among owners of vehicles not designed to run the fuel, and despite the mounting questions over its use, the Environmental Protection Agency last summer approved the use of E15 gasoline, increasing the amount of ethanol in pump gasoline. Two bills recently introduced in Congress, however, seek to suspend that approval.
    House Bill 875 and Senate Bill 344 address concerns with the destructive byproduct of the higher ethanol additive, formic acid, which can contaminate fuel systems, melt plastic and rubber and corrode some metals. The EPA began allowing gas dispensaries to offer E15-laced gasoline in June of last year, and the Renewable Fuels Association has stated that the E15 blend was extensively tested by the EPA before approving its use and is safe for virtually all vehicles manufactured after 2001.
    However, with the implementation of E15-based fuels, many new car manufacturers have weighed in on the subject, with producers such as Nissan, Chrysler, Toyota, BMW and Volkswagen announcing that they will not cover fuel-related claims on their new car warranties. Other companies like Ford, Mercedes and Volvo will not honor any drivetrain warranties in vehicles that use E15. AAA (Automotive Association of America) has also issued statements that further testing of the E85 blend is needed and that the labeling on refueling pumps is insufficient to warn consumers of the possible damage that could occur with the E15 blend.
    Both bills have the backing of SEMA, and the wording of each bill differs slightly. HB875 asks that the use of E15 be suspended for an additional 18 months while more testing is done. The Senate bill would suspend the sale of E15 entirely. SEMA is especially concerned for classic car enthusiasts whose cars see less road miles over the course of a year and allow the fuel to sit idle inside their fuel systems for even longer periods of time. The same concerns should also apply to anyone who owns a lawn mower, chain saw, weed trimmer, motorcycle, boat, snowmobile or ATV as all of these machines also sit idly by for extended periods of inactivity. The lack of use and infrequent refilling of the fuel system is where most of the problems have occurred to date.
    HB875 has been referred to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, while SB344 has been referred to the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works.
    SEMA urges you to contact your Senator or House Representative to express your opinions on these bills. A list of contacts for your lawmakers is available on the SEMA Action Network page.
     
  30. Lawrenzo

    Lawrenzo Enthusiast

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    And it continues down that slippery slope- how soon till the government legislates away any form of fuel that will work with older vehicles??:nono: Can't have much fun in a Hemi Cuda without gasoline! :mad:.

    Less than a year after it approved the sale of E15 – a mixture of 15 percent ethanol with 85 percent gasoline – the EPA has begun to suggest doubling that percentage despite concerns about the existing levels of ethanol in fuel.
    As reported by the New York Times earlier this month, the EPA’s proposal of E30 came buried deep in a report released in March about sulfur levels in fuel. The proposal calls not only for increasing the percentage of ethanol in fuel to 30 percent, but also for pushing car manufacturers to tune their engines with higher compression ratios to better burn E30. As the Times pointed out, the proposal is designed as much to reduce emissions and improve fuel economy as it is to engineer support for more ethanol in fuel.
    “You make the dog like the dog food,” William H. Woebkenberg, a senior engineer for fuels policy for Mercedes-Benz, told the Times.
    The ethanol industry has been promoting E30 at least since 2007, describing it as an optimal blend for fuel economy. However, beyond concerns from the automakers and AAA that the engines in new cars aren’t designed to run on blends much higher than 10 percent, collector car owners who use the same fuel have noted that the ethanol can actually damage their vehicles.
    The EPA approved the sale of E15 last June, but two pieces of legislation introduced in Congress earlier this year – House Bill 875 and Senate Bill 344asked the EPA to suspend the sale of E15 until the fuel could be studied further. Both of those bills remain in committee.
    Meanwhile, at least a couple of state legislatures have expressed misgivings about ethanol content in fuel. Earlier this month, Maine’s lawmakers voted to ban any ethanol-blended fuel as long as at least two other New England states also banned it, citing potential damage as a result of its use along with the impact of ethanol fuel’s use on food supplies. (The two-other-states provision was included to ensure a large enough supply of non-ethanol fuel from regional refineries.) As the Bangor Daily News reported, the vote came on the heels of a similar bill that Maine’s governor signed earlier this month banning fuel with ethanol content greater than 10 percent. In each of the last two years, New Hampshire’s state legislature passed a bill banning all ethanol-blended fuels, but the bill did not become law.
    The EPA’s E30 proposal is currently open to automakers for comment.

    http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/...content-in-gasoline-to-30-percent/?refer=news
     

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