Which Headers are best?

Which headers are best for a Gen 4?

  • ACR-X

    Votes: 10 26.3%
  • M & M

    Votes: 9 23.7%
  • Bellanger

    Votes: 19 50.0%
  • Mopar

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    38

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
I've searched but have not found the info I want. Which headers are best for a Gen 4? Please answer the poll and include a post as to why you voted the way you did. Factor in anything you wish when voting - gains in HP, gains in Torque, Quality, Finish, ease of installation, etc.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
I will first admit that we have only worked extensively with the ACR-X headers from BBG (similar designs to many others), and Belanger (Viper specific) over the 9+ years I have been here with a dabble in a couple others before that, but my take is this. After 45-50 installs I know that on the dyno the ACR-X header and most 5 into 1 designs will make more power on top then the Belangers. I feel from my use that the Belangers "drive" better then the dyno suggest, but that may be my own psychosis. I have never done a side by side identical drag race comparison other then runs down the front straights of a few tracks in similar, but not identical cars, with that said I never felt that I was ever under powered compared to an ACR-X equipped car.

As far as fit and finish my personal opinion is the Belangers are first rate. I like the precision, the flanges, weight, welds and the coating. The install is flawless every time, I cannot say the same for the ARH product and that is by no means BBG's doing, Toddy does a wonderful job with the headers, he does not actually build them though. That also being said I know that Toddy has a special personally built header that will be coming out and from what I have seen it will probably be the absolute BEST out there. He is very meticulous about everything he does and I commend his efforts. Will it be expensive? YES certainly it will be, but you will see design and execution beyond your expectations, and if they come as I have seen them, I will be proud to offer them to my clients.
 
OP
OP
V

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
I will first admit that we have only worked extensively with the ACR-X headers from BBG (similar designs to many others), and Belanger (Viper specific) over the 9+ years I have been here with a dabble in a couple others before that, but my take is this. After 45-50 installs I know that on the dyno the ACR-X header and most 5 into 1 designs will make more power on top then the Belangers. I feel from my use that the Belangers "drive" better then the dyno suggest, but that may be my own psychosis. I have never done a side by side identical drag race comparison other then runs down the front straights of a few tracks in similar, but not identical cars, with that said I never felt that I was ever under powered compared to an ACR-X equipped car.

As far as fit and finish my personal opinion is the Belangers are first rate. I like the precision, the flanges, weight, welds and the coating. The install is flawless every time, I cannot say the same for the ARH product and that is by no means BBG's doing, Toddy does a wonderful job with the headers, he does not actually build them though. That also being said I know that Toddy has a special personally built header that will be coming out and from what I have seen it will probably be the absolute BEST out there. He is very meticulous about everything he does and I commend his efforts. Will it be expensive? YES certainly it will be, but you will see design and execution beyond your expectations, and if they come as I have seen them, I will be proud to offer them to my clients.

Mark,

I've heard that one advantage that the ACR-X headers have is that they place the O2 sensor in the collector as opposed to one of the down pipes. Where do the Bellangers place the O2? In the collector? If yes, was it always this way?
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
Mark,

I've heard that one advantage that the ACR-X headers have is that they place the O2 sensor in the collector as opposed to one of the down pipes. Where do the Bellangers place the O2? In the collector? If yes, was it always this way?


The Belangers have always been in a single tube for as long as I have been around. The design of the tri-Y and its collector does not appear to fit well with the collector placement. I believe the further from the head the sensor is the less accurate it is? And ideally you would want one per cylinder? If you have it in the collector would it not see all the cylinders on that side at once and if there were a problem that caused it to read very rich would it not lean everything out maybe to the point it would be bad? If that is the case I think a random single tube would lessen that chance. If not the case then I can't really see a problem either way, but I'm not a header designer either.
 
OP
OP
V

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
I've done about all the research I can stand to do and my conclusion is that I will go with a coated set of ACR-X headers with stock exhaust. I'll be calling Toddy tomorrow.
 

Steve M

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Posts
1,069
Reaction score
194
Location
Dayton, OH
I've done about all the research I can stand to do and my conclusion is that I will go with a coated set of ACR-X headers with stock exhaust. I'll be calling Toddy tomorrow.

It sounds like it might be worth waiting for their new design...I'd at least ask him about an ETA for that one.
 

mbccenter

Legacy Supporting Vendor
Supporting Vendor
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Posts
1,045
Reaction score
5
Location
Forest Lake, MN
Most people will vote for what they have. As I will vote for M&M because I am one of the owners. In doing your search see what ones will help keep your temps down, will have the best wire placement for o2's and the best track performance. We are a small company who only produces headers for Vipers. I will put our fit and finish against our competition anyday. They are all a good product but there is no better value than the M&M headers built by Viper owners for Viper owners.
 

ViperTony

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Posts
7,554
Reaction score
0
The Belangers have always been in a single tube for as long as I have been around. The design of the tri-Y and its collector does not appear to fit well with the collector placement. I believe the further from the head the sensor is the less accurate it is? And ideally you would want one per cylinder? If you have it in the collector would it not see all the cylinders on that side at once and if there were a problem that caused it to read very rich would it not lean everything out maybe to the point it would be bad? If that is the case I think a random single tube would lessen that chance. If not the case then I can't really see a problem either way, but I'm not a header designer either.

I've had long, long conversations with Lou over O2 sensor placement on his headers. :) He's a fountain of knowledge. I can't say enough good things about Lou, he's a class act behind a great header. Belanger headers came with an O2 sensor **** in the merge collector originally. Then he moved it to the primary tube and kept it there. His reasoning is that closer to the block the better the accuracy and response. But, upon request, he will add a **** in the collector. I'm with you in that reading all 5 cylinders is better than reading one. No issues with the O2 in the merge collector here except for one which seems to be common when the O2 is moved to the collector with OEM O2's, regardless of the header. The PCM may throw a CEL related to slow O2 response. I forget the actual CEL code. Before the SCT came out, the only way to remedy this CEL was to install aftermarket "quick fire" sensors. Now, the SCT can adjust the O2 parameters to alleviate this issue. Toddy can do it and I know others are using SCT to do the same should the issue come up.
 
OP
OP
V

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
Most people will vote for what they have. As I will vote for M&M because I am one of the owners. In doing your search see what ones will help keep your temps down, will have the best wire placement for o2's and the best track performance. We are a small company who only produces headers for Vipers. I will put our fit and finish against our competition anyday. They are all a good product but there is no better value than the M&M headers built by Viper owners for Viper owners.

I think the M&M headers are also a good choice for sure. Does M&M sell the Mopar controllers? What cats do the M&M headers use? Can I use them with stock mufflers?
 
OP
OP
V

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
I've had long, long conversations with Lou over O2 sensor placement on his headers. :) He's a fountain of knowledge. I can't say enough good things about Lou, he's a class act behind a great header. Belanger headers came with an O2 sensor **** in the merge collector originally. Then he moved it to the primary tube and kept it there. His reasoning is that closer to the block the better the accuracy and response. But, upon request, he will add a **** in the collector. I'm with you in that reading all 5 cylinders is better than reading one. No issues with the O2 in the merge collector here except for one which seems to be common when the O2 is moved to the collector with OEM O2's, regardless of the header. The PCM may throw a CEL related to slow O2 response. I forget the actual CEL code. Before the SCT came out, the only way to remedy this CEL was to install aftermarket "quick fire" sensors. Now, the SCT can adjust the O2 parameters to alleviate this issue. Toddy can do it and I know others are using SCT to do the same should the issue come up.

The SCT will work on a Gen 3 but not a Gen 4. I wonder would quick fire sensors help alleviate CEL issues on a Gen 4 so that you wouldn't have to put in the Mopar controller? Where do you get them?
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
The SCT will work on a Gen 3 but not a Gen 4. I wonder would quick fire sensors help alleviate CEL issues on a Gen 4 so that you wouldn't have to put in the Mopar controller? Where do you get them?

The CEL you will get is for catalyst efficiency, this is from running HF cats and there is no fool proof way to get around it without the PCM.
 

cashcorn

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Posts
128
Reaction score
0
Location
Dana Point, CA
Are all Gen4 Viper header designs, 2 pieces? This to me seems like more maintance in the exhaust leak department. Are there metal gaskets like the factory to head one's? or paper? Does anybody make a single header long tub 5 into 1. Or is this just not practical? Can the 2 piece be welded together?
 

Steve M

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Posts
1,069
Reaction score
194
Location
Dayton, OH
Are all Gen4 Viper header designs, 2 pieces? This to me seems like more maintance in the exhaust leak department. Are there metal gaskets like the factory to head one's? or paper? Does anybody make a single header long tub 5 into 1. Or is this just not practical? Can the 2 piece be welded together?

I don't own a set of Gen 4 headers, but after looking at the engine bay, there's no way that I can see that you'd be able to install headers on this car without them being 2 pieces.
 

Garron

Enthusiast
Joined
May 16, 2008
Posts
539
Reaction score
0
I voted for the belangers due to the excellent fit and finish. The acx headers are nice as well, the only thing I did not like is they were not coated and they had a gasket between the upper and lower. Belanger had a laser cut flange that almost never leaks.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
153,139
Posts
1,681,567
Members
17,641
Latest member
chadlick32
Top