Power vs Gearing

[black mamba1]

At what rwhp should you stay w/ the stock 3.07 gear? 700 rwhp? 800 rwhp? 900 rwhp?

I have forged internals and can take my engine up to 1000 rwhp or so. But if I can get the same acceleration from 0-170mph w/ say 750 rwhp and 3:33's, then w/ 900 rwhp and 3.07's, I want to stay w/ the lower rwhp due to lower heat soak and lower engine stress produced by the higher hp car.

Is there a "sweet spot" so to speak? Does anyone have an idea of the best rwhp and gearing combo for mid to low 10's in the 1/4 mile and roll ons?

 

[plumcrazy]

stop thinking so hard and buy a SC already.....

 

[black mamba1]

Analysis paralysis right?

 

[ViperTony]

Keith, I'm telling you this as a friend, just buy and install the ****** supercharger already. Once you do that, ALL of your questions will be answered. BTW, one our CT Viper owners has a gorgeous carbon fiber tonneau cover for his SRT. His wheels were sick too. I think both would look good on your SRT. VIPER SRT-10 : 877-361-0296 : D2-AUTOSPORT He's in Wallingford.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I'm a huge fan of gearing changes, the stock gear is recommended by lot's of people because of the huge top end potential and the drag racers in the group will tell you that the 3.33 is the best 1/4 mile gear. I have done and driven a 750 hp cars with 3.73 gears and they are incredible!

Granted there is a learning curve to launches but if it is worse than a stock why do big time drag racers choose deep gear like they do? AND if that is too hard to control call me and I will set you up with a Racelogic system that will control the launch for you!

 

[Twister]

With 528 rwhp on your current set up, you should just be able to put on slicks and run a high 10 at 126 PLUS mph...

Even a low boost SC set up is gonna put you at 700 rwhp...That plus slicks will defiently have you running mid 10's at 133 plus mph...

Id personally go to the track and master the 528 rwhp before I added the SC

 

[MikeR]

With 528 rwhp on your current set up, you should just be able to put on slicks and run a high 10 at 126 PLUS mph...

Id personally go to the track and master the 528 rwhp before I added the SC

I dont think you will gain a half second or more with slicks on a N/A car at that power level. I think his car is good for mid 11's as it is, on street tires with a good launch. To get to 10.8/10.9, that would mean slicks net you .5-.7 tenths. I dont see it.

Either way, with slicks you break stuff. I know I personally dont want to go to track with slicks. I like to run it at track the same way you will find it on the street. I run with 19/20 " street tires. Sure I could go lighter wheels and DR's or slicks. But half the fun is mastering what you got. That way you know exactly what you can run if were to do a street light race. (of course thats illegal and we dont do this)

Besides, I think Keith likes to freeway race as well. 528 rwhp is real good but in certain areas he woud still get walked. Slicks arent doing anything in a 3rd gear roll race. Thats why I love the Paxton. Sure its tougher to launch. Sure theres cars with less power that are running faster 1/4 mile times. But when I get on the freeway with them, I walk them hard. Im at the track maybe 2-3 times a year for a drag race. But Im on the freeway every weekend. And this car is my toy. Thats why Id go with a Paxton again in a heartbeat. But now Im spolied. Because any other car I own in the future needs at least 700 rwhp. Its soooooo fun!!!!!!!!

And the 3:33 is a great gear choice. im very pleased with it and the quiafe. Also, remember.... Its hard to have a street car that is king of the 1/4 mile and king of the road course, but can still be daily driven. So if all you want is a 1/4 mile king, you can build it. But it will be completely different setup then if you want a kicka$$ road race car, or a freeway monster. So I vote for doing the basics like alot on this forum have done. You will do very well all around. You may not be the fastest, but you will have a car thats very hard to beat at any event and looks good too.

So keith, time to order.....
Paxton
DLM goodies
3:33 with quaife
Lowering kit
19/20 bling bling setup

 

[plumcrazy]

well said mike.

now go do it keith !!!....

 

[Viper X]

Kinda depends on what you want to do with your car.

IMHO, on the street the 3.33's work well at 700 - 750 rwhp and down. Probably work well at the drags too.

If you ever plan to do top speed runs, like the standing 1/2 mile or mile, the 3.07's work better. Depending on tire size and engine speed capability (mine spins to 6600 rpm), I can get over 170 mph at the top of 4th gear. Fifth gear is even more monstrous.

My 925 rwhp Paxton car will smoke the tires in 1st and 2nd (drag radials, warm day, lower pressure, etc.) if I'm not careful with the throttle. 3.33's would only multiply the torque and make this worse.

Dan

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

IMHO the reason the tires "smoke off" is because you are using the 3.07's. With the taller gearing when the tires break loose the tire "spins up" to a faster speed than you are moving. The actual difference in tire speed versus actual speed of the car affects the "recovery time" before traction is regained. A numerically higher gear like a 3.55 or 3.33 will not spin as fast as a 3.07. This what "helps" traction, the weight of the wheel and tire also affect this in a flywheel effect.

Kinda depends on what you want to do with your car.

IMHO, on the street the 3.33's work well at 700 - 750 rwhp and down. Probably work well at the drags too.

If you ever plan to do top speed runs, like the standing 1/2 mile or mile, the 3.07's work better. Depending on tire size and engine speed capability (mine spins to 6600 rpm), I can get over 170 mph at the top of 4th gear. Fifth gear is even more monstrous.

My 925 rwhp Paxton car will smoke the tires in 1st and 2nd (drag radials, warm day, lower pressure, etc.) if I'm not careful with the throttle. 3.33's would only multiply the torque and make this worse.

Dan

 

[Viper X]

Yeah, in first gear at launch, I'd kinda agree. I noticed it was easier to control launches with lower gears and proper throttle modulation. Problem with lower gears is that you don't stay in the gear very long and are shifting constantly with bigger power.

In higher gears with bigger power, no. I've found that the lower (numerically higher) gears tend to break loose easier at speed. It's not fun breaking loose at 100+ mph when you shift from 3rd to 4th.

I tried 3.55's, 3.45's and 3.33's and could not get very good traction with any of them in this car. I think I'm one of Unitrax's best customers (Ask Devin or Jerry). I found 3.07's to work best all around at this power level and would go lower (2.73) if I could find something that would stand up to the power.

Dan

 

[SnakeEye]

3.33's seem to make for a good street and short(er) track gear as you can keep out of 5th (overdrive) longer but still get decent torque multiplication throughout the first four gears. I've had 3.55's but redline and 5th come to soon too often in my experience.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I have experienced the breakaway at 130 plus with the 3.55 and I still feel more comfortable letting it ride out than with the 3.07, so I guess we can agree to disagree?

 

[black mamba1]

MikeR, you survived your honeymood?? With a wife like tha...ooops!....I am married too, time to change the subject! Again, congratulations for having a super cool Viper loving kick-ass beauty queen of a wife! And thanks for the input.

I appreciate all the input. Some good info here....and it also seems like this debate can go the route of the Roe vs Paxton debate. Some guys swearing by the lower (higher number) gears, and others saying they affect traction too much and are unpredictable. One thing that has me thinking about gears is that the new Ferrari Scuderia has 4:11's or something like that and runs 11.2 in the 1/4 mile and tops out at around 200 mph...all that w/ around 530 fly wheel hp?

Viper Tony and I had some real fun on Saturday, and got in a wide curve doing around 125-130 mph or so..i felt very comfortable with the predictabiltiy of the 3.07. I touched the throttle aggressively once in the curve, and I could feel the frame twist from the power...me no like that. I got out of it..but crazy ass Viper Tony stayed into it ( w/ 100 yr old tires!) and walked the crap out of me.

What I do like about the lower gearing is it helps the Paxton spool faster. But as you can see, ViperX is having problems w/ the stock 3.07 at his power level. I have had two Z06 races (won both) that went up to speeds in excess of 160 mph, isnt the 3.07 better in this speed range?

I think one thing everyone agrees on is this, I should just buy the damn supercharger and go from there.

 

[MikeR]

MikeR, you survived your honeymood?? With a wife like tha...ooops!....I am married too, time to change the subject! Again, congratulations for having a super cool Viper loving kick-ass beauty queen of a wife! And thanks for the input.

Thanks again, it was a great time in Maui. But now back to the real world.

I think one thing everyone agrees on is this, I should just buy the damn supercharger and go from there.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Burntrubber]

Forged motor and no S/C = you loco mang...

I would go with the paxton and a 3.33 gear on a GenIII

 

[ViperTony]

Viper Tony and I had some real fun on Saturday, and got in a wide curve doing around 125-130 mph or so..i felt very comfortable with the predictabiltiy of the 3.07. I touched the throttle aggressively once in the curve, and I could feel the frame twist from the power...me no like that. I got out of it..but crazy ass Viper Tony stayed into it ( w/ 100 yr old tires!) and walked the crap out of me.

Keith...your car walks mine on any given day or condition. I'm certain if we were head to head you would've taken me there. This is why I like staying in front of you...it gives me a 2-3 car length head start. But one thing is for certain...I'm NEVER going to do that on these 8 year old tires again. You should go to the Pocono track day with the NJ club in August. That's where I learned how to become faster in the turns. With a good instructor riding along, you'll have some serious fun on that track. I think you'll be surprised how much you'll learn there.

 

[Guy]

Not to hijack the thread (very informative so far), but assuming we stick to black mamba1's mod list, i.e. NA power, is there merit in changing the diff ratio?

I ask, because where I am, the car has to appear stock (supercharger sticks out a little).. Street & Freeway driving, and the occasional traffic light

 

[Viper X]

Agree with Mike R. Just put the damn supercharger on and go.

You will wonder why you waited so long.

Dan

 

[black mamba1]

Not to hijack the thread (very informative so far), but assuming we stick to black mamba1's mod list, i.e. NA power, is there merit in changing the diff ratio?

I ask, because where I am, the car has to appear stock (supercharger sticks out a little).. Street & Freeway driving, and the occasional traffic light

Absolutely. There is a guy in here VCA w/ an 08 (similar power) and w/ 3:33's he ran an 11.18. If I was staying n/a I would put 3:33's on in a heartbeat!

 

[JonB]

Not to hijack the thread (very informative so far), but assuming we stick to black mamba1's mod list, i.e. NA power, is there merit in changing the diff ratio?

I ask, because where I am, the car has to appear stock (supercharger sticks out a little).. Street & Freeway driving, and the occasional traffic light

Short answer: ABSOLUTELY!

Longer answer: If you dont wanna go 165+, you take that potential power and spread it out over all 6 gears, giving you a functional 6-speed. And you will SLOW DOWN QUICKER too. Free BRAKE upgrade! Like MarkJ. states 3:73 is phenominal gear once hooked, but needs a diffy and trans cooler for track use. 3:55 is my favorite up to 700hp...then 3:33. No better bang for buck. Poor-Man's Supercharger: 3:73.

TIRES-TIRES-TIRES
HALFSHAFTS

 

[black mamba1]

Agree with Mike R. Just put the damn supercharger on and go.

You will wonder why you waited so long.

Dan

Duly noted!

 

[black mamba1]

Keith...your car walks mine on any given day or condition. I'm certain if we were head to head you would've taken me there. This is why I like staying in front of you...it gives me a 2-3 car length head start. But one thing is for certain...I'm NEVER going to do that on these 8 year old tires again. You should go to the Pocono track day with the NJ club in August. That's where I learned how to become faster in the turns. With a good instructor riding along, you'll have some serious fun on that track. I think you'll be surprised how much you'll learn there.

naaaa....I dont know about that! I just hit it b4 you do most times and beat you to the sweet part of the power curve! And before Saturday, I thought I was crazier than you!

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Short answer: ABSOLUTELY!

Longer answer: If you dont wanna go 165+, you take that potential power and spread it out over all 6 gears, giving you a functional 6-speed. And you will SLOW DOWN QUICKER too. Free BRAKE upgrade! Like MarkJ. states 3:73 is phenominal gear once hooked, but needs a diffy and trans cooler for track use. 3:55 is my favorite up to 700hp...then 3:33. No better bang for buck. Poor-Man's Supercharger: 3:73.

TIRES-TIRES-TIRES
HALFSHAFTS

Yup that is exactly what I think also Jon